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Re: "the"

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  • wustpisk
    I don t think there is any difference at all between US English and standard English in this respect.
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 13, 2013
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      I don't think there is any difference at all between US English and standard English in this respect.


      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <spacils@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > Islanders, would you call the US business magazine "Forbes" or "the Forbes"?
      >
      > I read in Forbes the other day....
      >
      > I read in the Forbes the other day....
      >
      > I'd use the former -- the mag is Forbes, not The Forbes.
      >
      > Dtto for Time and Newsweek, so I think the addition of "the" would only apply for adjective + verb. Plus a few exceptions, because what would life be if there were no exceptions.
      >
      > - Liz
      >
      >
      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I think you did understand, Gerry. It looks like we agree.
      > >
      > > I don't know what I'd do with the definite article in front of "Beano", because in the US that's not a magazine, but an anti-flatulence remedy people commonly take before eating Mexican food.
      > >
      > > Jamie
      > >
      > > On Jun 13, 2013, at 3:08 AM, wustpisk wrote:
      > >
      > > > I'm not sure I understand your problem - it seems clear to me.
      > > > If a noun, or adjective + noun, then the. If a verb, no the.
      > > > I've always called it the Beano, and I'm not a Scotsman.
      > > >
      > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
      > > >>
      > > >> I've got a question about using "the" before the name of a periodical. I'd like native English speakers' feedback on it.
      > > >>
      > > >> I've got a set of style guidelines written by Germans in German, and they include a few rules that violate English journalistic style as I learned it and according to the manuals I have here. I've gotten permission to adhere to English style on a few things, but there is one that's really bothering me. They want me to use "the" before the name of the magazine "auf Deutsch sowie auf Englisch". The problem is that in English it sounds to me like a German's ESL mistake.
      > > >>
      > > >> I'm fine with "the" at the beginning of publications ending in certain nouns, like "The Detroit News", "The Detroit Free Press", "The Wall Street Journal", "The Financial Times", "The Guardian", etc. No problem there. There are also some names of publications where such nouns are not present but are understood, such as "The Atlantic" (Monthly).
      > > >>
      > > >> Canadians, under the influence of French, can use titles with just "the" and an adjective, and you just have to intuit the noun, such as "The National", etc.
      > > >>
      > > >> I also heard a Scotsman once refer to "the Beano".
      > > >>
      > > >> The issue I have today, though, is whether you should add "the" before the title of a magazine that consists of a sentence.
      > > >>
      > > >> For example, there's a somewhat paranoid Polish religious magazine that comes out in English under the title "Love One Another". Would you native English speakers ever refer to this magazine as "the Love One Another"? I can't do it.
      > > >>
      > > >> Another example: Let's say you had a magazine called "Let's Go!" (There probably is one somewhere.) Would you ever refer to the magazine in general (not just one stray copy somewhere) as "the Let's Go!"? I can't. This is approximately what I'm being asked to do. It sounds as bad to me as when they call Donald Trump "The Donald" due to Ivana's German-based article mistake.
      > > >>
      > > >> Any thoughts?
      > > >>
      > > >> Jamie
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >> _______________________________________________
      > > >> Czechlist mailing list
      > > >> Czechlist@
      > > >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      > > >>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > _______________________________________________
      > > > Czechlist mailing list
      > > > Czechlist@
      > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      > >
      > >
      > > _______________________________________________
      > > Czechlist mailing list
      > > Czechlist@
      > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      > >
      >
    • Kent Christopher Kasha
      I agree. The only point I would like to make is that Canada s The National name is not so much the result of some arcane French influence, but a shortening of
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 13, 2013
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        I agree. The only point I would like to make is that Canada's The National
        name is not so much the result of some arcane French influence, but a
        shortening of the former name, The National News. So it is more of a
        marketing room decision than some francophone connection.



        I am a bit saddened by the fact that the magazine spotlighting Canadian
        history changed its name to Canada's History from the much more colourful
        The Beaver.



        Kent



        From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of wustpisk
        Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:29 PM
        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Czechlist] Re: "the"






        I don't think there is any difference at all between US English and standard
        English in this respect.

        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
        "Liz" <spacils@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > Islanders, would you call the US business magazine "Forbes" or "the
        Forbes"?
        >
        > I read in Forbes the other day....
        >
        > I read in the Forbes the other day....
        >
        > I'd use the former -- the mag is Forbes, not The Forbes.
        >
        > Dtto for Time and Newsweek, so I think the addition of "the" would only
        apply for adjective + verb. Plus a few exceptions, because what would life
        be if there were no exceptions.
        >
        > - Liz
        >
        >
        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
        James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I think you did understand, Gerry. It looks like we agree.
        > >
        > > I don't know what I'd do with the definite article in front of "Beano",
        because in the US that's not a magazine, but an anti-flatulence remedy
        people commonly take before eating Mexican food.
        > >
        > > Jamie
        > >
        > > On Jun 13, 2013, at 3:08 AM, wustpisk wrote:
        > >
        > > > I'm not sure I understand your problem - it seems clear to me.
        > > > If a noun, or adjective + noun, then the. If a verb, no the.
        > > > I've always called it the Beano, and I'm not a Scotsman.
        > > >
        > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
        , James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
        > > >>
        > > >> I've got a question about using "the" before the name of a
        periodical. I'd like native English speakers' feedback on it.
        > > >>
        > > >> I've got a set of style guidelines written by Germans in German, and
        they include a few rules that violate English journalistic style as I
        learned it and according to the manuals I have here. I've gotten permission
        to adhere to English style on a few things, but there is one that's really
        bothering me. They want me to use "the" before the name of the magazine "auf
        Deutsch sowie auf Englisch". The problem is that in English it sounds to me
        like a German's ESL mistake.
        > > >>
        > > >> I'm fine with "the" at the beginning of publications ending in
        certain nouns, like "The Detroit News", "The Detroit Free Press", "The Wall
        Street Journal", "The Financial Times", "The Guardian", etc. No problem
        there. There are also some names of publications where such nouns are not
        present but are understood, such as "The Atlantic" (Monthly).
        > > >>
        > > >> Canadians, under the influence of French, can use titles with just
        "the" and an adjective, and you just have to intuit the noun, such as "The
        National", etc.
        > > >>
        > > >> I also heard a Scotsman once refer to "the Beano".
        > > >>
        > > >> The issue I have today, though, is whether you should add "the"
        before the title of a magazine that consists of a sentence.
        > > >>
        > > >> For example, there's a somewhat paranoid Polish religious magazine
        that comes out in English under the title "Love One Another". Would you
        native English speakers ever refer to this magazine as "the Love One
        Another"? I can't do it.
        > > >>
        > > >> Another example: Let's say you had a magazine called "Let's Go!"
        (There probably is one somewhere.) Would you ever refer to the magazine in
        general (not just one stray copy somewhere) as "the Let's Go!"? I can't.
        This is approximately what I'm being asked to do. It sounds as bad to me as
        when they call Donald Trump "The Donald" due to Ivana's German-based article
        mistake.
        > > >>
        > > >> Any thoughts?
        > > >>
        > > >> Jamie
        > > >>
        > > >>
        > > >> _______________________________________________
        > > >> Czechlist mailing list
        > > >> Czechlist@
        > > >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        > > >>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > _______________________________________________
        > > > Czechlist mailing list
        > > > Czechlist@
        > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        > >
        > >
        > > _______________________________________________
        > > Czechlist mailing list
        > > Czechlist@
        > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        > >
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James Kirchner
        Kent, I think that if you viewed various things in Canada from US eyes, you d see that there are plenty of names of that form The Adjective that would be
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 13, 2013
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          Kent, I think that if you viewed various things in Canada from US eyes, you'd see that there are plenty of names of that form "The Adjective" that would be strange in the US and that we immediately know are Canadian names. "The National" was the only one I could think of at the time, but if you were a foreigner you would notice that Canada is quite liberally sprinkled with such names.

          As for beavers, when the Canadian parliament was busy destroying the Detroit pop music industry and our local Windsor radio station along with it, the disk jockeys used to use the word "beaver" derisively when complying with local content laws. When putting on some crummy song they would not have played without being forced to by regulations, they would announce, "Here's another beaver!"

          Jamie

          On Jun 13, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:

          > I agree. The only point I would like to make is that Canada's The National
          > name is not so much the result of some arcane French influence, but a
          > shortening of the former name, The National News. So it is more of a
          > marketing room decision than some francophone connection.
          >
          >
          >
          > I am a bit saddened by the fact that the magazine spotlighting Canadian
          > history changed its name to Canada's History from the much more colourful
          > The Beaver.
          >
          >
          >
          > Kent
          >
          >
          >
          > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of wustpisk
          > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:29 PM
          > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: "the"
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I don't think there is any difference at all between US English and standard
          > English in this respect.
          >
          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
          > "Liz" <spacils@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> Hi,
          >>
          >> Islanders, would you call the US business magazine "Forbes" or "the
          > Forbes"?
          >>
          >> I read in Forbes the other day....
          >>
          >> I read in the Forbes the other day....
          >>
          >> I'd use the former -- the mag is Forbes, not The Forbes.
          >>
          >> Dtto for Time and Newsweek, so I think the addition of "the" would only
          > apply for adjective + verb. Plus a few exceptions, because what would life
          > be if there were no exceptions.
          >>
          >> - Liz
          >>
          >>
          >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
          > James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
          >>>
          >>> I think you did understand, Gerry. It looks like we agree.
          >>>
          >>> I don't know what I'd do with the definite article in front of "Beano",
          > because in the US that's not a magazine, but an anti-flatulence remedy
          > people commonly take before eating Mexican food.
          >>>
          >>> Jamie
          >>>
          >>> On Jun 13, 2013, at 3:08 AM, wustpisk wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> I'm not sure I understand your problem - it seems clear to me.
          >>>> If a noun, or adjective + noun, then the. If a verb, no the.
          >>>> I've always called it the Beano, and I'm not a Scotsman.
          >>>>
          >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
          > , James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
          >>>>>
          >>>>> I've got a question about using "the" before the name of a
          > periodical. I'd like native English speakers' feedback on it.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> I've got a set of style guidelines written by Germans in German, and
          > they include a few rules that violate English journalistic style as I
          > learned it and according to the manuals I have here. I've gotten permission
          > to adhere to English style on a few things, but there is one that's really
          > bothering me. They want me to use "the" before the name of the magazine "auf
          > Deutsch sowie auf Englisch". The problem is that in English it sounds to me
          > like a German's ESL mistake.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> I'm fine with "the" at the beginning of publications ending in
          > certain nouns, like "The Detroit News", "The Detroit Free Press", "The Wall
          > Street Journal", "The Financial Times", "The Guardian", etc. No problem
          > there. There are also some names of publications where such nouns are not
          > present but are understood, such as "The Atlantic" (Monthly).
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Canadians, under the influence of French, can use titles with just
          > "the" and an adjective, and you just have to intuit the noun, such as "The
          > National", etc.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> I also heard a Scotsman once refer to "the Beano".
          >>>>>
          >>>>> The issue I have today, though, is whether you should add "the"
          > before the title of a magazine that consists of a sentence.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> For example, there's a somewhat paranoid Polish religious magazine
          > that comes out in English under the title "Love One Another". Would you
          > native English speakers ever refer to this magazine as "the Love One
          > Another"? I can't do it.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Another example: Let's say you had a magazine called "Let's Go!"
          > (There probably is one somewhere.) Would you ever refer to the magazine in
          > general (not just one stray copy somewhere) as "the Let's Go!"? I can't.
          > This is approximately what I'm being asked to do. It sounds as bad to me as
          > when they call Donald Trump "The Donald" due to Ivana's German-based article
          > mistake.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Any thoughts?
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Jamie
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>> _______________________________________________
          >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
          >>>>> Czechlist@
          >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >>>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>> _______________________________________________
          >>>> Czechlist mailing list
          >>>> Czechlist@
          >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> _______________________________________________
          >>> Czechlist mailing list
          >>> Czechlist@
          >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >>>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _______________________________________________
          > Czechlist mailing list
          > Czechlist@...
          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


          _______________________________________________
          Czechlist mailing list
          Czechlist@...
          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        • Liz
          Dtto for The Atlantic (formerly The Atlantic Monthly). I do notice comedians would toss in an extra the here and there when mimicking Sarah Palin. I thought
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 13, 2013
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            Dtto for The Atlantic (formerly The Atlantic Monthly).

            I do notice comedians would toss in an extra "the" here and there when mimicking Sarah Palin. I thought that was a Fargo thing.

            - Liz

            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...> wrote:
            >
            > I agree. The only point I would like to make is that Canada's The National
            > name is not so much the result of some arcane French influence, but a
            > shortening of the former name, The National News. So it is more of a
            > marketing room decision than some francophone connection.
            >
            > Kent
          • Kent Christopher Kasha
            Jamie, I don t doubt it, though The National is not one of them, and I am not sure that any other ones you can think of have all that much to do with a French
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 13, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Jamie, I don't doubt it, though The National is not one of them, and I am
              not sure that any other ones you can think of have all that much to do with
              a French influence, which was my point.



              We'll leave the destruction of the Detroit pop music industry for another
              day. I would (seriously) like to hear how the Canadian Parliament managed
              that, though I suppose I should be pleased they succeeded in something. When
              I was growing up all the radio stations were crap, but there was a late
              night show on CBC called Brave New Waves that played excellent music in a
              multitude of styles. Otherwise my siblings and I would gather around my
              brother's short wave radio and try to find stations that played anything
              other than the pabulum on the local airwaves.



              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of James Kirchner
              Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 5:46 PM
              To: czechlist@...
              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] "the"





              Kent, I think that if you viewed various things in Canada from US eyes,
              you'd see that there are plenty of names of that form "The Adjective" that
              would be strange in the US and that we immediately know are Canadian names.
              "The National" was the only one I could think of at the time, but if you
              were a foreigner you would notice that Canada is quite liberally sprinkled
              with such names.

              As for beavers, when the Canadian parliament was busy destroying the Detroit
              pop music industry and our local Windsor radio station along with it, the
              disk jockeys used to use the word "beaver" derisively when complying with
              local content laws. When putting on some crummy song they would not have
              played without being forced to by regulations, they would announce, "Here's
              another beaver!"

              Jamie

              On Jun 13, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:

              > I agree. The only point I would like to make is that Canada's The National
              > name is not so much the result of some arcane French influence, but a
              > shortening of the former name, The National News. So it is more of a
              > marketing room decision than some francophone connection.
              >
              >
              >
              > I am a bit saddened by the fact that the magazine spotlighting Canadian
              > history changed its name to Canada's History from the much more colourful
              > The Beaver.
              >
              >
              >
              > Kent
              >
              >
              >
              > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
              Behalf
              > Of wustpisk
              > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:29 PM
              > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: "the"
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I don't think there is any difference at all between US English and
              standard
              > English in this respect.
              >
              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
              > "Liz" <spacils@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Hi,
              >>
              >> Islanders, would you call the US business magazine "Forbes" or "the
              > Forbes"?
              >>
              >> I read in Forbes the other day....
              >>
              >> I read in the Forbes the other day....
              >>
              >> I'd use the former -- the mag is Forbes, not The Forbes.
              >>
              >> Dtto for Time and Newsweek, so I think the addition of "the" would only
              > apply for adjective + verb. Plus a few exceptions, because what would life
              > be if there were no exceptions.
              >>
              >> - Liz
              >>
              >>
              >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
              > James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
              >>>
              >>> I think you did understand, Gerry. It looks like we agree.
              >>>
              >>> I don't know what I'd do with the definite article in front of "Beano",
              > because in the US that's not a magazine, but an anti-flatulence remedy
              > people commonly take before eating Mexican food.
              >>>
              >>> Jamie
              >>>
              >>> On Jun 13, 2013, at 3:08 AM, wustpisk wrote:
              >>>
              >>>> I'm not sure I understand your problem - it seems clear to me.
              >>>> If a noun, or adjective + noun, then the. If a verb, no the.
              >>>> I've always called it the Beano, and I'm not a Scotsman.
              >>>>
              >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              > , James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
              >>>>>
              >>>>> I've got a question about using "the" before the name of a
              > periodical. I'd like native English speakers' feedback on it.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> I've got a set of style guidelines written by Germans in German, and
              > they include a few rules that violate English journalistic style as I
              > learned it and according to the manuals I have here. I've gotten
              permission
              > to adhere to English style on a few things, but there is one that's really
              > bothering me. They want me to use "the" before the name of the magazine
              "auf
              > Deutsch sowie auf Englisch". The problem is that in English it sounds to
              me
              > like a German's ESL mistake.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> I'm fine with "the" at the beginning of publications ending in
              > certain nouns, like "The Detroit News", "The Detroit Free Press", "The
              Wall
              > Street Journal", "The Financial Times", "The Guardian", etc. No problem
              > there. There are also some names of publications where such nouns are not
              > present but are understood, such as "The Atlantic" (Monthly).
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Canadians, under the influence of French, can use titles with just
              > "the" and an adjective, and you just have to intuit the noun, such as "The
              > National", etc.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> I also heard a Scotsman once refer to "the Beano".
              >>>>>
              >>>>> The issue I have today, though, is whether you should add "the"
              > before the title of a magazine that consists of a sentence.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> For example, there's a somewhat paranoid Polish religious magazine
              > that comes out in English under the title "Love One Another". Would you
              > native English speakers ever refer to this magazine as "the Love One
              > Another"? I can't do it.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Another example: Let's say you had a magazine called "Let's Go!"
              > (There probably is one somewhere.) Would you ever refer to the magazine in
              > general (not just one stray copy somewhere) as "the Let's Go!"? I can't.
              > This is approximately what I'm being asked to do. It sounds as bad to me
              as
              > when they call Donald Trump "The Donald" due to Ivana's German-based
              article
              > mistake.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Any thoughts?
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Jamie
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>> _______________________________________________
              >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
              >>>>> Czechlist@
              >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
              >>>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>> _______________________________________________
              >>>> Czechlist mailing list
              >>>> Czechlist@
              >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> _______________________________________________
              >>> Czechlist mailing list
              >>> Czechlist@
              >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
              >>>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _______________________________________________
              > Czechlist mailing list
              > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist

              _______________________________________________
              Czechlist mailing list
              Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Hannah Geiger
              I am a bit bewildered: A person says, within the context of a linguistic discussion, that a paper used to be called The Beaver. In reply, he gets this*: *
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 13, 2013
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                I am a bit bewildered: A person says, within the context of a linguistic
                discussion, that a paper used to be called The Beaver.



                In reply, he gets this*: *

                *....**As for beavers, when the Canadian parliament was busy destroying the
                Detroit pop music industry and our local Windsor radio station along with
                it, the disk jockeys used to use the word "beaver" derisively when
                complying with local content laws. When putting on some crummy song they
                would not have played without being forced to by regulations, they would
                announce, "Here's another beaver!"*

                *
                *

                I lived in Canada and my observation was that if anything, Canadians are
                very afraid of the Americans.

                Jean Chretian in his (now famous) comment said: living next to the USA is
                like sleeping next to an elephant. You feel its every move.

                And I wonder, why is it necessary to be putting out the "beavers being
                crummy songs", "Canadian parliament destroying US pop music..... "


                Although I know that Jamie loves to voluntarily disclose lots and lots of
                information about himself which many may find quite interesting, I find it
                disruptive that someone from Detroit, half of which looks like Dresden
                after World War II bombings, says that the Canadian Parliament is
                destroying anything in his town.

                Furthermore, this does nothing for a "friendly spirit" of a translator
                site, not to mention that it is a smack to the face of Mr. Kasha, who
                introduced the beaver (The Beaver, actually) in the most neutral way.



                On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 11:46 AM, James Kirchner <jpklists@...>wrote:

                > Kent, I think that if you viewed various things in Canada from US eyes,
                > you'd see that there are plenty of names of that form "The Adjective" that
                > would be strange in the US and that we immediately know are Canadian names.
                > "The National" was the only one I could think of at the time, but if you
                > were a foreigner you would notice that Canada is quite liberally sprinkled
                > with such names.
                >
                > As for beavers, when the Canadian parliament was busy destroying the
                > Detroit pop music industry and our local Windsor radio station along with
                > it, the disk jockeys used to use the word "beaver" derisively when
                > complying with local content laws. When putting on some crummy song they
                > would not have played without being forced to by regulations, they would
                > announce, "Here's another beaver!"
                >
                > Jamie
                >
                > On Jun 13, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:
                >
                > > I agree. The only point I would like to make is that Canada's The
                > National
                > > name is not so much the result of some arcane French influence, but a
                > > shortening of the former name, The National News. So it is more of a
                > > marketing room decision than some francophone connection.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I am a bit saddened by the fact that the magazine spotlighting Canadian
                > > history changed its name to Canada's History from the much more colourful
                > > The Beaver.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Kent
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf
                > > Of wustpisk
                > > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:29 PM
                > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: "the"
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I don't think there is any difference at all between US English and
                > standard
                > > English in this respect.
                > >
                > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                > > "Liz" <spacils@...> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> Hi,
                > >>
                > >> Islanders, would you call the US business magazine "Forbes" or "the
                > > Forbes"?
                > >>
                > >> I read in Forbes the other day....
                > >>
                > >> I read in the Forbes the other day....
                > >>
                > >> I'd use the former -- the mag is Forbes, not The Forbes.
                > >>
                > >> Dtto for Time and Newsweek, so I think the addition of "the" would only
                > > apply for adjective + verb. Plus a few exceptions, because what would
                > life
                > > be if there were no exceptions.
                > >>
                > >> - Liz
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                > > James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                > >>>
                > >>> I think you did understand, Gerry. It looks like we agree.
                > >>>
                > >>> I don't know what I'd do with the definite article in front of "Beano",
                > > because in the US that's not a magazine, but an anti-flatulence remedy
                > > people commonly take before eating Mexican food.
                > >>>
                > >>> Jamie
                > >>>
                > >>> On Jun 13, 2013, at 3:08 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                > >>>
                > >>>> I'm not sure I understand your problem - it seems clear to me.
                > >>>> If a noun, or adjective + noun, then the. If a verb, no the.
                > >>>> I've always called it the Beano, and I'm not a Scotsman.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > , James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> I've got a question about using "the" before the name of a
                > > periodical. I'd like native English speakers' feedback on it.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> I've got a set of style guidelines written by Germans in German, and
                > > they include a few rules that violate English journalistic style as I
                > > learned it and according to the manuals I have here. I've gotten
                > permission
                > > to adhere to English style on a few things, but there is one that's
                > really
                > > bothering me. They want me to use "the" before the name of the magazine
                > "auf
                > > Deutsch sowie auf Englisch". The problem is that in English it sounds to
                > me
                > > like a German's ESL mistake.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> I'm fine with "the" at the beginning of publications ending in
                > > certain nouns, like "The Detroit News", "The Detroit Free Press", "The
                > Wall
                > > Street Journal", "The Financial Times", "The Guardian", etc. No problem
                > > there. There are also some names of publications where such nouns are not
                > > present but are understood, such as "The Atlantic" (Monthly).
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> Canadians, under the influence of French, can use titles with just
                > > "the" and an adjective, and you just have to intuit the noun, such as
                > "The
                > > National", etc.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> I also heard a Scotsman once refer to "the Beano".
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> The issue I have today, though, is whether you should add "the"
                > > before the title of a magazine that consists of a sentence.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> For example, there's a somewhat paranoid Polish religious magazine
                > > that comes out in English under the title "Love One Another". Would you
                > > native English speakers ever refer to this magazine as "the Love One
                > > Another"? I can't do it.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> Another example: Let's say you had a magazine called "Let's Go!"
                > > (There probably is one somewhere.) Would you ever refer to the magazine
                > in
                > > general (not just one stray copy somewhere) as "the Let's Go!"? I can't.
                > > This is approximately what I'm being asked to do. It sounds as bad to me
                > as
                > > when they call Donald Trump "The Donald" due to Ivana's German-based
                > article
                > > mistake.
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> Any thoughts?
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> Jamie
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> _______________________________________________
                > >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                > >>>>> Czechlist@
                > >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>> _______________________________________________
                > >>>> Czechlist mailing list
                > >>>> Czechlist@
                > >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>> _______________________________________________
                > >>> Czechlist mailing list
                > >>> Czechlist@
                > >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                > >>>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > _______________________________________________
                > > Czechlist mailing list
                > > Czechlist@...
                > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                >
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > Czechlist mailing list
                > Czechlist@...
                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                >
                _______________________________________________
                Czechlist mailing list
                Czechlist@...
                http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
              • James Kirchner
                I just brought it up as French influence because that s what it was attributed to in my linguistics textbooks in grad school. It s the same thing with them
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 13, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  I just brought it up as French influence because that's what it was attributed to in my linguistics textbooks in grad school.

                  It's the same thing with them creating names like "Hydro Windsor" (one I made up), where as if they'd had Americans name the thing, it would be called "Windsor Hydro".

                  Jamie

                  On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:08 PM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:

                  > Jamie, I don't doubt it, though The National is not one of them, and I am
                  > not sure that any other ones you can think of have all that much to do with
                  > a French influence, which was my point.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > We'll leave the destruction of the Detroit pop music industry for another
                  > day. I would (seriously) like to hear how the Canadian Parliament managed
                  > that, though I suppose I should be pleased they succeeded in something. When
                  > I was growing up all the radio stations were crap, but there was a late
                  > night show on CBC called Brave New Waves that played excellent music in a
                  > multitude of styles. Otherwise my siblings and I would gather around my
                  > brother's short wave radio and try to find stations that played anything
                  > other than the pabulum on the local airwaves.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  > Of James Kirchner
                  > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 5:46 PM
                  > To: czechlist@...
                  > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] "the"
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Kent, I think that if you viewed various things in Canada from US eyes,
                  > you'd see that there are plenty of names of that form "The Adjective" that
                  > would be strange in the US and that we immediately know are Canadian names.
                  > "The National" was the only one I could think of at the time, but if you
                  > were a foreigner you would notice that Canada is quite liberally sprinkled
                  > with such names.
                  >
                  > As for beavers, when the Canadian parliament was busy destroying the Detroit
                  > pop music industry and our local Windsor radio station along with it, the
                  > disk jockeys used to use the word "beaver" derisively when complying with
                  > local content laws. When putting on some crummy song they would not have
                  > played without being forced to by regulations, they would announce, "Here's
                  > another beaver!"
                  >
                  > Jamie
                  >
                  > On Jun 13, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:
                  >
                  >> I agree. The only point I would like to make is that Canada's The National
                  >> name is not so much the result of some arcane French influence, but a
                  >> shortening of the former name, The National News. So it is more of a
                  >> marketing room decision than some francophone connection.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I am a bit saddened by the fact that the magazine spotlighting Canadian
                  >> history changed its name to Canada's History from the much more colourful
                  >> The Beaver.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Kent
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                  > Behalf
                  >> Of wustpisk
                  >> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:29 PM
                  >> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: "the"
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I don't think there is any difference at all between US English and
                  > standard
                  >> English in this respect.
                  >>
                  >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                  >> "Liz" <spacils@...> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> Hi,
                  >>>
                  >>> Islanders, would you call the US business magazine "Forbes" or "the
                  >> Forbes"?
                  >>>
                  >>> I read in Forbes the other day....
                  >>>
                  >>> I read in the Forbes the other day....
                  >>>
                  >>> I'd use the former -- the mag is Forbes, not The Forbes.
                  >>>
                  >>> Dtto for Time and Newsweek, so I think the addition of "the" would only
                  >> apply for adjective + verb. Plus a few exceptions, because what would life
                  >> be if there were no exceptions.
                  >>>
                  >>> - Liz
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                  >> James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>> I think you did understand, Gerry. It looks like we agree.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> I don't know what I'd do with the definite article in front of "Beano",
                  >> because in the US that's not a magazine, but an anti-flatulence remedy
                  >> people commonly take before eating Mexican food.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Jamie
                  >>>>
                  >>>> On Jun 13, 2013, at 3:08 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>>> I'm not sure I understand your problem - it seems clear to me.
                  >>>>> If a noun, or adjective + noun, then the. If a verb, no the.
                  >>>>> I've always called it the Beano, and I'm not a Scotsman.
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >> , James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> I've got a question about using "the" before the name of a
                  >> periodical. I'd like native English speakers' feedback on it.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> I've got a set of style guidelines written by Germans in German, and
                  >> they include a few rules that violate English journalistic style as I
                  >> learned it and according to the manuals I have here. I've gotten
                  > permission
                  >> to adhere to English style on a few things, but there is one that's really
                  >> bothering me. They want me to use "the" before the name of the magazine
                  > "auf
                  >> Deutsch sowie auf Englisch". The problem is that in English it sounds to
                  > me
                  >> like a German's ESL mistake.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> I'm fine with "the" at the beginning of publications ending in
                  >> certain nouns, like "The Detroit News", "The Detroit Free Press", "The
                  > Wall
                  >> Street Journal", "The Financial Times", "The Guardian", etc. No problem
                  >> there. There are also some names of publications where such nouns are not
                  >> present but are understood, such as "The Atlantic" (Monthly).
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Canadians, under the influence of French, can use titles with just
                  >> "the" and an adjective, and you just have to intuit the noun, such as "The
                  >> National", etc.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> I also heard a Scotsman once refer to "the Beano".
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> The issue I have today, though, is whether you should add "the"
                  >> before the title of a magazine that consists of a sentence.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> For example, there's a somewhat paranoid Polish religious magazine
                  >> that comes out in English under the title "Love One Another". Would you
                  >> native English speakers ever refer to this magazine as "the Love One
                  >> Another"? I can't do it.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Another example: Let's say you had a magazine called "Let's Go!"
                  >> (There probably is one somewhere.) Would you ever refer to the magazine in
                  >> general (not just one stray copy somewhere) as "the Let's Go!"? I can't.
                  >> This is approximately what I'm being asked to do. It sounds as bad to me
                  > as
                  >> when they call Donald Trump "The Donald" due to Ivana's German-based
                  > article
                  >> mistake.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Any thoughts?
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Jamie
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> _______________________________________________
                  >>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                  >>>>>> Czechlist@
                  >>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> _______________________________________________
                  >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                  >>>>> Czechlist@
                  >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>> _______________________________________________
                  >>>> Czechlist mailing list
                  >>>> Czechlist@
                  >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >>>>
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------------
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> _______________________________________________
                  >> Czechlist mailing list
                  >> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                  >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >
                  > _______________________________________________
                  > Czechlist mailing list
                  > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                  > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _______________________________________________
                  > Czechlist mailing list
                  > Czechlist@...
                  > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                  _______________________________________________
                  Czechlist mailing list
                  Czechlist@...
                  http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                • Jakub Skrebsky
                  Marketo a Martine, moc diky za pomoc. Mozna nejste lekarnici, ale rozhodne tomu rozumite vic nez ja:)) Jakub On 13 Jun 2013, at 13:05, Martin Janda wrote: Ja
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 13, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Marketo a Martine, moc diky za pomoc. Mozna nejste lekarnici, ale rozhodne tomu rozumite vic nez ja:))

                    Jakub


                    On 13 Jun 2013, at 13:05, Martin Janda wrote:

                    Ja bych se pridal. I kdyz mi termin imunodominantni v tomhle kontextu
                    pripada zvlastni - imunodominantni bych cekal, že bude cast nejakeho
                    vetsiho celku, ale ne samostatny peptid. Tam bych volil spis formulaci
                    vysoce/silne antigenni peptid.

                    Martin
                    (kdysi davno imunochemik, nikdy lekarnik)

                    Dne 13.6.2013 13:58, Markéta Vilhelmová napsal(a):
                    >
                    > Jakube,
                    > ja bych rekla imunodominantni peptid obsahujici 9 aminokyselin, ale
                    > nejsem
                    > chemik ani lekarnik.
                    >
                    > Marketa
                    >
                    > --
                    > Marketa Vilhelmova
                    > Domasov u Stbk. 46
                    > CZ-78501 Sternberk
                    > Czech Republic
                    > Comp. ID: 73360309
                    > EU VAT: CZ7555252870
                    > tel: +420 608 614 059
                    > e-mail: marketa.jirickova@... <mailto:marketa.jirickova%40email.cz>
                    > skype: jirickovapeggy
                    >
                    > ---------- Původní zpráva ----------
                    > Od: Jakub Skrebsky <jakub.skrebsky@...
                    > <mailto:jakub.skrebsky%40gmail.com>>
                    > Datum: 13. 6. 2013
                    > Předmět: [Czechlist] TERM pharmacy
                    >
                    > "
                    >
                    >
                    > Chemici a lékárníci, prosím pomoc. Potřeuji český ekvivalent k
                    > "immunodominant nine amino acid peptide". Kontext je ubohý, jen věta
                    > "XYZ is
                    > the immunodominant nine amino acid peptide derived from the extracellular
                    > domain of the oncogene HER2."
                    >
                    > Díky
                    > Jakub
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > "
                    > =
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kent Christopher Kasha
                    I have a couple of other quotes about Canada along the same lines: Pierre Elliot said When America sneezes, Canada catches a cold. And my favorite: Canada
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 14, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have a couple of other quotes about Canada along the same lines:



                      Pierre Elliot said "When America sneezes, Canada catches a cold."



                      And my favorite: Canada could have had the best of all worlds: French
                      culture, British government and American know-how. Instead it has French
                      government, British know-how and American culture.



                      From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Hannah Geiger
                      Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 6:17 PM
                      To: czechlist@...
                      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] "the"

                      Jean Chretian in his (now famous) comment said: living next to the USA is
                      like sleeping next to an elephant. You feel its every move.






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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