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RE: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text THANKS

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  • Pilucha, Jiri
    Mark, clear enough now, thanks a lot again Jiri From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gillis Sent: Wednesday,
    Message 1 of 2 , May 23, 2013
      Mark,
      clear enough now, thanks a lot again
      Jiri



      From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gillis
      Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 9:17 PM
      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text



      Jirko,

      I didn't respond sooner as, for some strange reason, your messages ended up in my spam. I gave two possibilities for "nasleduje", namely "follow (are dependent upon)". I generally don't like to do that (makes it ambiguous), but I don't know the context. Another possibility, which is really more English ("follow" is more Czenglish) would be "share", so share the fate of.

      The idea that a security right shares the legal fate of the secured item is an example of a broader principle that a derivative right can be no greater than the right from which it is derived. As an example, a purchaser of a good enjoys no greater rights than the seller or A
      seller cannot convey a better title to the buyer then he has himself [http://studypoints.blogspot.com/2011/08/seller-cannot-convey-better-title-to_6172.html%5d. Here is something else I found in a quick google, although concerning contracts, not security interests: "The rights of the assignee regarding the assigned contract are no greater than those of the assignor. If the other party to the contract could have successfully defended against a suit brought by the assignor, that party (the obligor) will also prevail against the assignee." [http://contracts.uslegal.com/third-parties-and-assignments/%5d

      Mark


      ________________________________
      From: "Pilucha, Jiri" <jiri.pilucha@...<mailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com>>
      To: "Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>" <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>>
      Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:55 AM
      Subject: RE: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text




      Mark,

      This is extremely helpful.

      I was mostly wondering about the words “nasleduje pravni osud...” and now I can see they’re translated literally word by word in the most straightforward way imaginable.

      Could you just very briefly explain what it means “to follow the legal fate [of the secured item]”?

      By the way, this text seems to be using “security” as an umbrella term for several types of how to secure an item: lien, surety (guarantee provided by a person = guarantor), financial guarantee, transfer of title and wage assignments.

      Thanks again

      Jiri

      From: mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gillis
      Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:33 AM
      To: mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text

      Jiri,

      I know exactly what the sentence means, but the trouble is getting it into plausible and precise English (and WHICH English). My initial stab at it would be something like the following: "Security rights (interests) are of an in rem nature, which means they in
      principle follow (are dependent upon) the legal fate of the secured item."

      Under American law, "security interests" are rights in secured transactions, which in English law are referred to as "chattel mortgages". As I am an American lawyer, I am not entirely certain how exactly they would phrase that in English law. A further problem is that, whereas in continental legal systems, they tend to use general terms that have very broad meanings (zástava/zástavní), in Common law we tend to have a multiplicity of terms. Here it could be mortgage, lien, pledge, collateral, etc., so I have opted for the more general term, "security".

      Mark

      ________________________________
      From: "Pilucha, Jiri" <mailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com<mailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com<mailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com%3cmailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com>>>
      To: "mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com%3e>" <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>>>
      Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:01 AM
      Subject: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text

      Dear all, I am completely at a loss with the following semtence

      Zastavni pravo ma vecnou povahu, tzn. zasadne nasleduje pravni osud zajistene veci.

      Would you please have any suggestions

      Thanks a lot

      Jiri

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