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RE: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text THANKS

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  • Pilucha, Jiri
    Zuzko Thanks a lot indeed! (simplicity is the mother of wisdom. just made it up. do0es not hold true but anyway) Jiri From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 2 , May 22 6:47 AM
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      Zuzko

      Thanks a lot indeed! (simplicity is the mother of wisdom. just made it up. do0es not hold true but anyway)

      Jiri

      From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zuzana Benesova
      Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:45 AM
      To: czechlist@...
      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text



      Dear Jiri,

      I think there is no need for lengthy explanations. "X nasleduje pravni osud Y" = X has the same legal fate as Y. As I understand it the phrase is trying to convey that the legal effects relating to the secured item automatically also relate to the security rights. The phrasing is a bit unusual but no complicated meaning IMO. See what Mark says :-)

      Zuzka

      22. 5. 2013 v 0:01, Pilucha, Jiri:

      > Dear all, I am completely at a loss with the following semtence
      >
      > Zastavni pravo ma vecnou povahu, tzn. zasadne nasleduje pravni osud zajistene veci.
      >
      > Would you please have any suggestions
      >
      > Thanks a lot
      >
      > Jiri
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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    • Pilucha, Jiri
      Mark, clear enough now, thanks a lot again Jiri From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gillis Sent: Wednesday,
      Message 2 of 2 , May 23 12:17 PM
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        Mark,
        clear enough now, thanks a lot again
        Jiri



        From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gillis
        Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 9:17 PM
        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text



        Jirko,

        I didn't respond sooner as, for some strange reason, your messages ended up in my spam. I gave two possibilities for "nasleduje", namely "follow (are dependent upon)". I generally don't like to do that (makes it ambiguous), but I don't know the context. Another possibility, which is really more English ("follow" is more Czenglish) would be "share", so share the fate of.

        The idea that a security right shares the legal fate of the secured item is an example of a broader principle that a derivative right can be no greater than the right from which it is derived. As an example, a purchaser of a good enjoys no greater rights than the seller or A
        seller cannot convey a better title to the buyer then he has himself [http://studypoints.blogspot.com/2011/08/seller-cannot-convey-better-title-to_6172.html%5d. Here is something else I found in a quick google, although concerning contracts, not security interests: "The rights of the assignee regarding the assigned contract are no greater than those of the assignor. If the other party to the contract could have successfully defended against a suit brought by the assignor, that party (the obligor) will also prevail against the assignee." [http://contracts.uslegal.com/third-parties-and-assignments/%5d

        Mark


        ________________________________
        From: "Pilucha, Jiri" <jiri.pilucha@...<mailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com>>
        To: "Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>" <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>>
        Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:55 AM
        Subject: RE: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text




        Mark,

        This is extremely helpful.

        I was mostly wondering about the words “nasleduje pravni osud...” and now I can see they’re translated literally word by word in the most straightforward way imaginable.

        Could you just very briefly explain what it means “to follow the legal fate [of the secured item]”?

        By the way, this text seems to be using “security” as an umbrella term for several types of how to secure an item: lien, surety (guarantee provided by a person = guarantor), financial guarantee, transfer of title and wage assignments.

        Thanks again

        Jiri

        From: mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gillis
        Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:33 AM
        To: mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text

        Jiri,

        I know exactly what the sentence means, but the trouble is getting it into plausible and precise English (and WHICH English). My initial stab at it would be something like the following: "Security rights (interests) are of an in rem nature, which means they in
        principle follow (are dependent upon) the legal fate of the secured item."

        Under American law, "security interests" are rights in secured transactions, which in English law are referred to as "chattel mortgages". As I am an American lawyer, I am not entirely certain how exactly they would phrase that in English law. A further problem is that, whereas in continental legal systems, they tend to use general terms that have very broad meanings (zástava/zástavní), in Common law we tend to have a multiplicity of terms. Here it could be mortgage, lien, pledge, collateral, etc., so I have opted for the more general term, "security".

        Mark

        ________________________________
        From: "Pilucha, Jiri" <mailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com<mailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com<mailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com%3cmailto:jiri.pilucha%40cz.unisys.com>>>
        To: "mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com%3e>" <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>>>
        Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:01 AM
        Subject: [Czechlist] sentence from a legal text

        Dear all, I am completely at a loss with the following semtence

        Zastavni pravo ma vecnou povahu, tzn. zasadne nasleduje pravni osud zajistene veci.

        Would you please have any suggestions

        Thanks a lot

        Jiri

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