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Re: [Czechlist] Czech comma

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  • Jakub Skrebsky
    this gun should be big enough: http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11 kapitola A (carka v souveti) ostavec 1 odstavec 2 Pozn 1 Although,
    Message 1 of 14 , May 10, 2013
      this gun should be big enough:

      http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11
      kapitola A (carka v souveti)
      ostavec 1
      odstavec 2 Pozn 1

      Although, Pozn. 2, in fact, allows leaving the comma out.

      Jakub

      On 10 May 2013, at 21:01, Charles Stanford wrote:

      Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the
      proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with
      leaving it out, so I needed some big guns to confirm.

      On 10 May 2013 21:14, Zuzana Benesova <czechlist@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of
      > the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)
      >
      > Zuzka
      >
      > 10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:
      >
      >
      >> Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a
      > Czech
      >> NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
      >> following:
      >> "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
      >
      >> Thanks
      >> Charlie
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> _______________________________________________
      >> Czechlist mailing list
      >> Czechlist@...
      >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > Czechlist mailing list
      > Czechlist@...
      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------




      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Pilucha, Jiri
      Jakube, why do you think it allows leaving the comma out? It talks exclusively about spojka nez . There is no nez in Charlie s sentence The comma totally
      Message 2 of 14 , May 10, 2013
        Jakube, why do you think it allows leaving the comma out?
        It talks exclusively about spojka "nez".
        There is no "nez" in Charlie's sentence
        The comma totally needs to be there
        Jiri


        From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jakub Skrebsky
        Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:45 PM
        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Czech comma



        this gun should be big enough:

        http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11
        kapitola A (carka v souveti)
        ostavec 1
        odstavec 2 Pozn 1

        Although, Pozn. 2, in fact, allows leaving the comma out.

        Jakub

        On 10 May 2013, at 21:01, Charles Stanford wrote:

        Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the
        proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with
        leaving it out, so I needed some big guns to confirm.

        On 10 May 2013 21:14, Zuzana Benesova <czechlist@...<mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of
        > the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)
        >
        > Zuzka
        >
        > 10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:
        >
        >
        >> Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a
        > Czech
        >> NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
        >> following:
        >> "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
        >
        >> Thanks
        >> Charlie
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> _______________________________________________
        >> Czechlist mailing list
        >> Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > Czechlist mailing list
        > Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jakub Skrebsky
        yes, I am convinced that the comma must be there. Par. 2 Pozn. 2 raises the problem of distinction between a multiple predicate and another clause. And you
        Message 3 of 14 , May 10, 2013
          yes, I am convinced that the comma must be there.
          Par. 2 Pozn. 2 raises the problem of distinction between a multiple predicate and another clause. And you can often replace "misto aby " with "nez aby" . But the main argument is, as you rightly say, that the relationship between the two clauses is contrasting (I found a term "contrast conjunction" for "spojka odporovaci") and therefore must be preceded by a comma.

          Jakub


          On 10 May 2013, at 21:50, Pilucha, Jiri wrote:

          Jakube, why do you think it allows leaving the comma out?
          It talks exclusively about spojka "nez".
          There is no "nez" in Charlie's sentence
          The comma totally needs to be there
          Jiri

          From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jakub Skrebsky
          Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:45 PM
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Czech comma

          this gun should be big enough:

          http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11
          kapitola A (carka v souveti)
          ostavec 1
          odstavec 2 Pozn 1

          Although, Pozn. 2, in fact, allows leaving the comma out.

          Jakub

          On 10 May 2013, at 21:01, Charles Stanford wrote:

          Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the
          proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with
          leaving it out, so I needed some big guns to confirm.

          On 10 May 2013 21:14, Zuzana Benesova <czechlist@...<mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of
          > the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)
          >
          > Zuzka
          >
          > 10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:
          >
          >
          >> Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a
          > Czech
          >> NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
          >> following:
          >> "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
          >
          >> Thanks
          >> Charlie
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> _______________________________________________
          >> Czechlist mailing list
          >> Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
          >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >
          > _______________________________________________
          > Czechlist mailing list
          > Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Pavel
          Ja bych si dovolil podotknout, ze tam carka musi byt, protoze carkou oddelujeme vety podrazene od vet nadrazenych. S nez to tedy nijak nesouvisi, nejde o
          Message 4 of 14 , May 15, 2013
            Ja bych si dovolil podotknout, ze tam carka musi byt, protoze carkou oddelujeme vety podrazene od vet nadrazenych. S "nez" to tedy nijak nesouvisi, nejde o souradne spojene vety, kde by se mohlo pripadne jednat o mnohonasobny prisudek. U spojky podradici "aby", resp. v tomto pripade u spojovaciho vyrazu "misto aby" ani jina moznost nepripada v uvahu.

            Pavel

            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jakub Skrebsky <jakub.skrebsky@...> wrote:
            >
            > yes, I am convinced that the comma must be there.
            > Par. 2 Pozn. 2 raises the problem of distinction between a multiple predicate and another clause. And you can often replace "misto aby " with "nez aby" . But the main argument is, as you rightly say, that the relationship between the two clauses is contrasting (I found a term "contrast conjunction" for "spojka odporovaci") and therefore must be preceded by a comma.
            >
            > Jakub
            >
            >
            > On 10 May 2013, at 21:50, Pilucha, Jiri wrote:
            >
            > Jakube, why do you think it allows leaving the comma out?
            > It talks exclusively about spojka "nez".
            > There is no "nez" in Charlie's sentence
            > The comma totally needs to be there
            > Jiri
            >
            > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jakub Skrebsky
            > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:45 PM
            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Czech comma
            >
            > this gun should be big enough:
            >
            > http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11
            > kapitola A (carka v souveti)
            > ostavec 1
            > odstavec 2 Pozn 1
            >
            > Although, Pozn. 2, in fact, allows leaving the comma out.
            >
            > Jakub
            >
            > On 10 May 2013, at 21:01, Charles Stanford wrote:
            >
            > Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the
            > proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with
            > leaving it out, so I needed some big guns to confirm.
            >
            > On 10 May 2013 21:14, Zuzana Benesova <czechlist@...<mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of
            > > the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)
            > >
            > > Zuzka
            > >
            > > 10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:
            > >
            > >
            > >> Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a
            > > Czech
            > >> NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
            > >> following:
            > >> "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
            > >
            > >> Thanks
            > >> Charlie
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> ------------------------------------
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> _______________________________________________
            > >> Czechlist mailing list
            > >> Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
            > >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            > >
            > > _______________________________________________
            > > Czechlist mailing list
            > > Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
            > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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