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Czech comma

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  • Charles Stanford
    Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a Czech NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after ète in the following:
    Message 1 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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      Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a Czech
      NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after �te in the
      following:
      "nap�. pokud slova �te m�sto aby odpov�dal"
      Thanks
      Charlie


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James Kirchner
      Can anyone give me suggestions as to the best word for zachyceni in the warning Nebezpeci zachyceni! ? Catching is clearly not the right word, and I m
      Message 2 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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        Can anyone give me suggestions as to the best word for "zachyceni" in the warning "Nebezpeci zachyceni!"?

        "Catching" is clearly not the right word, and I'm drawing a blank. I think in the factories we used to talk about a "snagging hazard", but that could also mean getting caught by a hook. We also talked about a "pulling hazard". Frankly we didn't talk about hazards much.

        Any suggestions will be appreciated.

        Jamie


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      • Pilucha, Jiri
        Charlie there should definitely be a comma. Although you have given us a mere fragment, these are two different sentences, mezi kterymi je odporovaci pomer
        Message 3 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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          Charlie there should definitely be a comma.
          Although you have given us a mere fragment, these are two different sentences, mezi kterymi je odporovaci pomer (how would you say it in English?)
          jiri

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Stanford
          Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 8:51 PM
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Czechlist] Czech comma

          Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a Czech
          NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after ète in the
          following:
          "napø. pokud slova ète místo aby odpovídal"
          Thanks
          Charlie


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------




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        • Jaroslav Hejzlar
          Hi, Charlie! Yes, there should be a comma. Best regards, Jarda ... From: Charles Stanford Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 8:51 PM To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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            Hi, Charlie!
            Yes, there should be a comma.
            Best regards,
            Jarda

            -----Původní zpráva-----
            From: Charles Stanford
            Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 8:51 PM
            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Czechlist] Czech comma

            Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a Czech
            NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after čte in the
            following:
            "např. pokud slova čte místo aby odpovídal"
            Thanks
            Charlie


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------




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          • Martin Janda
            My TM suggests trapping/pinching hazard. HTH Martin
            Message 5 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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              My TM suggests trapping/pinching hazard.

              HTH
              Martin


              Dne 10.5.2013 20:59, James Kirchner napsal(a):
              >
              > Can anyone give me suggestions as to the best word for "zachyceni" in
              > the warning "Nebezpeci zachyceni!"?
              >
              > "Catching" is clearly not the right word, and I'm drawing a blank. I
              > think in the factories we used to talk about a "snagging hazard", but
              > that could also mean getting caught by a hook. We also talked about a
              > "pulling hazard". Frankly we didn't talk about hazards much.
              >
              > Any suggestions will be appreciated.
              >
              > Jamie
              >
            • Zuzana Benesova
              In fact, you will need another comma after odpovidal to mark the end of the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-) Zuzka ...
              Message 6 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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                In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)

                Zuzka


                10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:

                > Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a Czech
                > NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
                > following:
                > "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
                > Thanks
                > Charlie
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > Czechlist mailing list
                > Czechlist@...
                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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                Czechlist@...
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              • Jirka Bolech
                Hi Jamie, I ve been translating safety alerts from English to Czech on a fairly regular basis and, besides trap or pinch suggested by Martin, I also se
                Message 7 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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                  Hi Jamie,

                  I've been translating safety alerts from English to Czech on a fairly
                  regular basis and, besides trap or pinch suggested by Martin, I also se
                  entangle while trap definitely dominates...

                  Jirka

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                • Charles Stanford
                  Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with leaving it out, so
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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                    Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the
                    proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with
                    leaving it out, so I needed some big guns to confirm.

                    On 10 May 2013 21:14, Zuzana Benesova <czechlist@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of
                    > the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)
                    >
                    > Zuzka
                    >
                    > 10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:
                    >
                    >
                    > > Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a
                    > Czech
                    > > NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
                    > > following:
                    > > "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
                    >
                    > > Thanks
                    > > Charlie
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > _______________________________________________
                    > > Czechlist mailing list
                    > > Czechlist@...
                    > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    >
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Czechlist mailing list
                    > Czechlist@...
                    > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • James Kirchner
                    Thanks, Jirka. The problem is that I see different nuances in all of those: Trap sounds like something is stuck there and not moving. Pinch sounds like you
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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                      Thanks, Jirka. The problem is that I see different nuances in all of those:

                      Trap sounds like something is stuck there and not moving.
                      Pinch sounds like you get a little squeeze, say "ouch" and pull your appendage out.
                      Entangle sounds like what would happen to long hair or clothes.

                      When an arm is being continuously pulled in, it's trapped, but it's still moving, it's too large an appendage and there is too much continuous pressure and movement for it to be pinching, and an arm can't really be entangled less all the bones are broken and it's as flexible as a long strip of rubber.

                      This is a tough nut to crack.

                      Jamie

                      On May 10, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                      > Hi Jamie,
                      >
                      > I've been translating safety alerts from English to Czech on a fairly regular basis and, besides trap or pinch suggested by Martin, I also se entangle while trap definitely dominates...
                      >
                      > Jirka
                      >
                      > _______________________________________________
                      > Czechlist mailing list
                      > Czechlist@...
                      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                      _______________________________________________
                      Czechlist mailing list
                      Czechlist@...
                      http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    • James Kirchner
                      This isn t exactly a pinching hazard, because the machine can actually pull you in and crush you, not just give you a pinch. Trapping implies too little
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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                        This isn't exactly a pinching hazard, because the machine can actually pull you in and crush you, not just give you a pinch. Trapping implies too little motion. Snagging makes it sound like a hook. The crushing hazard comes after the pulling hazard. So I guess I'm just going to go with "pulling hazard".

                        Thank you, Martin.

                        Jamie

                        On May 10, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Martin Janda wrote:

                        > My TM suggests trapping/pinching hazard.
                        >
                        > HTH
                        > Martin
                        >
                        >
                        > Dne 10.5.2013 20:59, James Kirchner napsal(a):
                        >>
                        >> Can anyone give me suggestions as to the best word for "zachyceni" in
                        >> the warning "Nebezpeci zachyceni!"?
                        >>
                        >> "Catching" is clearly not the right word, and I'm drawing a blank. I
                        >> think in the factories we used to talk about a "snagging hazard", but
                        >> that could also mean getting caught by a hook. We also talked about a
                        >> "pulling hazard". Frankly we didn't talk about hazards much.
                        >>
                        >> Any suggestions will be appreciated.
                        >>
                        >> Jamie
                        >>
                        >
                        > _______________________________________________
                        > Czechlist mailing list
                        > Czechlist@...
                        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                        _______________________________________________
                        Czechlist mailing list
                        Czechlist@...
                        http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                      • Jakub Skrebsky
                        this gun should be big enough: http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11 kapitola A (carka v souveti) ostavec 1 odstavec 2 Pozn 1 Although,
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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                          this gun should be big enough:

                          http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11
                          kapitola A (carka v souveti)
                          ostavec 1
                          odstavec 2 Pozn 1

                          Although, Pozn. 2, in fact, allows leaving the comma out.

                          Jakub

                          On 10 May 2013, at 21:01, Charles Stanford wrote:

                          Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the
                          proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with
                          leaving it out, so I needed some big guns to confirm.

                          On 10 May 2013 21:14, Zuzana Benesova <czechlist@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of
                          > the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)
                          >
                          > Zuzka
                          >
                          > 10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:
                          >
                          >
                          >> Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a
                          > Czech
                          >> NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
                          >> following:
                          >> "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
                          >
                          >> Thanks
                          >> Charlie
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------------------------------
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> _______________________________________________
                          >> Czechlist mailing list
                          >> Czechlist@...
                          >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          >
                          > _______________________________________________
                          > Czechlist mailing list
                          > Czechlist@...
                          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          ------------------------------------




                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Pilucha, Jiri
                          Jakube, why do you think it allows leaving the comma out? It talks exclusively about spojka nez . There is no nez in Charlie s sentence The comma totally
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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                            Jakube, why do you think it allows leaving the comma out?
                            It talks exclusively about spojka "nez".
                            There is no "nez" in Charlie's sentence
                            The comma totally needs to be there
                            Jiri


                            From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jakub Skrebsky
                            Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:45 PM
                            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Czech comma



                            this gun should be big enough:

                            http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11
                            kapitola A (carka v souveti)
                            ostavec 1
                            odstavec 2 Pozn 1

                            Although, Pozn. 2, in fact, allows leaving the comma out.

                            Jakub

                            On 10 May 2013, at 21:01, Charles Stanford wrote:

                            Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the
                            proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with
                            leaving it out, so I needed some big guns to confirm.

                            On 10 May 2013 21:14, Zuzana Benesova <czechlist@...<mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of
                            > the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)
                            >
                            > Zuzka
                            >
                            > 10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:
                            >
                            >
                            >> Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a
                            > Czech
                            >> NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
                            >> following:
                            >> "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
                            >
                            >> Thanks
                            >> Charlie
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> _______________________________________________
                            >> Czechlist mailing list
                            >> Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                            >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            >
                            > _______________________________________________
                            > Czechlist mailing list
                            > Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                            > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Jakub Skrebsky
                            yes, I am convinced that the comma must be there. Par. 2 Pozn. 2 raises the problem of distinction between a multiple predicate and another clause. And you
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 10, 2013
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                              yes, I am convinced that the comma must be there.
                              Par. 2 Pozn. 2 raises the problem of distinction between a multiple predicate and another clause. And you can often replace "misto aby " with "nez aby" . But the main argument is, as you rightly say, that the relationship between the two clauses is contrasting (I found a term "contrast conjunction" for "spojka odporovaci") and therefore must be preceded by a comma.

                              Jakub


                              On 10 May 2013, at 21:50, Pilucha, Jiri wrote:

                              Jakube, why do you think it allows leaving the comma out?
                              It talks exclusively about spojka "nez".
                              There is no "nez" in Charlie's sentence
                              The comma totally needs to be there
                              Jiri

                              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jakub Skrebsky
                              Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:45 PM
                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Czech comma

                              this gun should be big enough:

                              http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11
                              kapitola A (carka v souveti)
                              ostavec 1
                              odstavec 2 Pozn 1

                              Although, Pozn. 2, in fact, allows leaving the comma out.

                              Jakub

                              On 10 May 2013, at 21:01, Charles Stanford wrote:

                              Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the
                              proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with
                              leaving it out, so I needed some big guns to confirm.

                              On 10 May 2013 21:14, Zuzana Benesova <czechlist@...<mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of
                              > the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)
                              >
                              > Zuzka
                              >
                              > 10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:
                              >
                              >
                              >> Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a
                              > Czech
                              >> NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
                              >> following:
                              >> "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
                              >
                              >> Thanks
                              >> Charlie
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> ------------------------------------
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> _______________________________________________
                              >> Czechlist mailing list
                              >> Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                              >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >
                              > _______________________________________________
                              > Czechlist mailing list
                              > Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              ------------------------------------

                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Pavel
                              Ja bych si dovolil podotknout, ze tam carka musi byt, protoze carkou oddelujeme vety podrazene od vet nadrazenych. S nez to tedy nijak nesouvisi, nejde o
                              Message 14 of 14 , May 15, 2013
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                                Ja bych si dovolil podotknout, ze tam carka musi byt, protoze carkou oddelujeme vety podrazene od vet nadrazenych. S "nez" to tedy nijak nesouvisi, nejde o souradne spojene vety, kde by se mohlo pripadne jednat o mnohonasobny prisudek. U spojky podradici "aby", resp. v tomto pripade u spojovaciho vyrazu "misto aby" ani jina moznost nepripada v uvahu.

                                Pavel

                                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jakub Skrebsky <jakub.skrebsky@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > yes, I am convinced that the comma must be there.
                                > Par. 2 Pozn. 2 raises the problem of distinction between a multiple predicate and another clause. And you can often replace "misto aby " with "nez aby" . But the main argument is, as you rightly say, that the relationship between the two clauses is contrasting (I found a term "contrast conjunction" for "spojka odporovaci") and therefore must be preceded by a comma.
                                >
                                > Jakub
                                >
                                >
                                > On 10 May 2013, at 21:50, Pilucha, Jiri wrote:
                                >
                                > Jakube, why do you think it allows leaving the comma out?
                                > It talks exclusively about spojka "nez".
                                > There is no "nez" in Charlie's sentence
                                > The comma totally needs to be there
                                > Jiri
                                >
                                > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jakub Skrebsky
                                > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 10:45 PM
                                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Czech comma
                                >
                                > this gun should be big enough:
                                >
                                > http://www.pravidla.cz/vice/clenici-znamenka/?kapitola=11
                                > kapitola A (carka v souveti)
                                > ostavec 1
                                > odstavec 2 Pozn 1
                                >
                                > Although, Pozn. 2, in fact, allows leaving the comma out.
                                >
                                > Jakub
                                >
                                > On 10 May 2013, at 21:01, Charles Stanford wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks to all 3 of you - Jiri, Jaroslav and Zuzana. Strangely the
                                > proofreader (who is Czech) was insisting that there was nothing wrong with
                                > leaving it out, so I needed some big guns to confirm.
                                >
                                > On 10 May 2013 21:14, Zuzana Benesova <czechlist@...<mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>> wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > In fact, you will need another comma after "odpovidal" to mark the end of
                                > > the second clause. That is unless there is a full stop there :-)
                                > >
                                > > Zuzka
                                > >
                                > > 10. 5. 2013 v 20:51, Charles Stanford:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >> Sorry if this is a bit of an uninspiring question but please could a
                                > > Czech
                                > >> NS confirm whether or not there should be a comma after cte in the
                                > >> following:
                                > >> "napr. pokud slova cte misto aby odpovidal"
                                > >
                                > >> Thanks
                                > >> Charlie
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> ------------------------------------
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> _______________________________________________
                                > >> Czechlist mailing list
                                > >> Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                                > >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                > >
                                > > _______________________________________________
                                > > Czechlist mailing list
                                > > Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                                > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
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