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Re: [Czechlist] Vejminek

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  • James Kirchner
    Seconded. A caretaker s cottage on the estate of an early 20th century American automotive baron is a fairly large stone house, and the children s home in my
    Message 1 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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      Seconded. A caretaker's cottage on the estate of an early 20th century American automotive baron is a fairly large stone house, and the children's home in my neighborhood had several cottages built to house as many as 12 people.

      Jamie

      On May 7, 2013, at 7:56 AM, Melvyn wrote:

      > This is all useful stuff. However,
      >
      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
      >> calling it cottage would suggest a)
      >> remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
      >> settings..
      >
      > Cottages can actually be quite substantial buildings. As Wikipedia says: The term cottage has also been used for a largish house that is practical rather than pretentious, see Chawton Cottage.
      >
      > Myself, I used to live at The Cottages in Longford Park, Stretford. Judge for yourself how small they are:
      > http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1312185
      > Okay this is not your stereotypical rural cottage, but you get my point. These "cottages" are just behind old Longford Hall (now demolished), along with the other outhouses. Hardly remote. And some estates are quite compact too IMHO. :-)
      >
      > But these are just options. "Farmstead", "house", "homestead"? etc will also surely work in many contexts.
      >
      > BR
      >
      > Melvyn
      >
      >
      >
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    • Dagmar
      Vejminek was a place, but by extension it was also used in the sense of to retire (jit na vejminek). In the UK, when you look at some estate agents adverts,
      Message 2 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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        Vejminek was a place, but by extension it was also used in the sense of 'to retire' (jit na vejminek). In the UK, when you look at some estate agents' adverts, if you have a house with a self contained flat/living unit, often made out of a garage or as an added extension, this is called a 'granny flat'.

        Interesting discussion about 'cottage' - I guess it depends who's talking - I remember Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility, where the 'cottage' which they were reduced to accept from a wealthy landlady much to their horror and shame, turned out what we would now consider a pretty substantial manor almost :) All's relative..

        Dagmar

        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
        >
        > This is all useful stuff. However,
        >
        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@> wrote:
        > >calling it cottage would suggest a)
        > > remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
        > > settings..
        >
        > Cottages can actually be quite substantial buildings. As Wikipedia says: The term cottage has also been used for a largish house that is practical rather than pretentious, see Chawton Cottage.
        >
        > Myself, I used to live at The Cottages in Longford Park, Stretford. Judge for yourself how small they are:
        > http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1312185
        > Okay this is not your stereotypical rural cottage, but you get my point. These "cottages" are just behind old Longford Hall (now demolished), along with the other outhouses. Hardly remote. And some estates are quite compact too IMHO. :-)
        >
        > But these are just options. "Farmstead", "house", "homestead"? etc will also surely work in many contexts.
        >
        > BR
        >
        > Melvyn
        >
      • Petr
        Podle mych znalosti vejminek neni (vetsinou) samostatna budova, nybrz mistnost nebo mistnosti, ktere muze stary hospodar (s manzelkou) obyvat v synove dome, na
        Message 3 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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          Podle mych znalosti vejminek neni (vetsinou) samostatna budova, nybrz mistnost nebo mistnosti, ktere muze stary hospodar (s manzelkou) obyvat v synove dome, na ktereho budovu prevedl.
          Slovo "vejminek" pochazi od toho, ze si otec v prevodni smlouve u notare <>vyminil<>, ktere casti domu muze vyuzivat (mistnost k bydleni, kuchyni, zachod, koupelnu, pokud tam byla, apod.) Jinak se totiz stavalo, ze syn si od otce nemovitost vzal a pak otce (a matku) vyhodil s tim, at si otec jde kam chce, jeho ze to nezajima.
          Je to dukaz toho, ze na vesnici vubec nepanovaly idylicke pomery.
          Petr Adamek
          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
          >
          > In old Czech village speak (which you should be famillar with Melvyn,
          > with all those statky on your naves in Zehrovice), vejminek/vymenek is
          > IMHO a house, usually separate or tacked onto another farmyard
          > building, where the old farmer and his wife goes to live when the farm
          > is handed-over to the eldest (or whichever) son, i.e. when they
          > 'retire'.. they are usually still taking part in the daily going-ons
          > and helping with whatever until they are very old, but they have their
          > own place to live and don't get into the younger ones' hair that
          > much... a very sensible arrangement..
          >
          > The rent/pension that comes with it would be quite an old thing, in
          > 19-20th Century I guess their pensions would have been taken care of
          > pension funds/savings, and they would get food and help from the rest
          > of the family, but the term wouldn't be applied to money/support, but
          > the building... that's how it worked on my Gran's farm, which was
          > buildings-only (no farming except for own use) ever since Granddad got
          > on the wrong side of a German gun during Heydrichiada and then the
          > whole thing was taken-over by JZD.. the vymenek was a separate building
          > across from the main building, funnily enough my uncle, the youngest
          > son and the only one who stayed there, moved in with his family and
          > Gran stayed in the main building..
          >
          > As for an English term 'Estate retirement cottage' sounds a bit as if
          > the estate/the farm is actually huge - like one of those English
          > manors/whatever, containing half the County, and the cottage is some
          > sort of little thing hidden somewhere in the woods or by the village..
          >
          > In Czecho, farms - the ones that were private as opposed to
          > church/noble family-owned are usually more compact, an enclosed yard
          > with buildings pretty much all around.. and vymenek/vejminek would be
          > one of these... where I am now, it was a rather small thing tacked onto
          > an end of a row of stables, at my Gran's it was a separate and quite a
          > substantial red brick house.. but it's almost always sort of in balance
          > with the rest of the buildings, calling it cottage would suggest a)
          > remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
          > settings..
          >
          > I would go for something like the retirement house (sounds like an
          > institution, right?), the old farmer's house? Anything that sounds
          > normal and describes what it is without suggesting too much feudalism
          > grandeur (unles of course the time and scale this refers to is actually
          > feudalism)..
          >
          > Still at the main building and not likely to be shuffled into vejminek
          > (which had to be torn-down as the Commie JZD people used it as an
          > impromptu kitchen for pig feed and it had rotten away from inside)..
          > Matej
          >
          >
          > ------ Original Message ------
          > From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
          > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: 7.5.2013 11:40:21
          > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Vejminek
          > > Hi Zdenek,
          > >
          > >This the kind of thing you are looking for?
          > >
          > >http://familienverband-tritschler.de/index.php?id=85&L=1
          > >
          > >BR
          > >
          > >Melvyn
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Melvyn
          ... The old Poldauf dictionary also refers to granny[ s] flat under this heading. BR Melvyn
          Message 4 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dagmar" <dagmarwt@...> wrote:
            >
            > Vejminek was a place, but by extension it was also used in the sense of 'to retire' (jit na vejminek). In the UK, when you look at some estate agents' adverts, if you have a house with a self contained flat/living unit, often made out of a garage or as an added extension, this is called a 'granny flat'.

            The old Poldauf dictionary also refers to "granny['s] flat" under this heading.

            BR

            Melvyn
          • Dagmar
            I agree, Petr. Even relatively poor families talked about vejminek, all it meant was that the old parents stopped working (doing whatever was their source of
            Message 5 of 12 , May 8, 2013
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              I agree, Petr. Even relatively poor families talked about vejminek, all it meant was that the old parents stopped working (doing whatever was their source of income - they could be just poor weavers etc) and just carried on living with the young ones who took over. So it was just used as a term for retiring.. in many a folk tale they would say 'maminka a tatinek uz byli na vejminku'...

              BW,
              Dagmar

              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Petr" <padamek@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Podle mych znalosti vejminek neni (vetsinou) samostatna budova, nybrz mistnost nebo mistnosti, ktere muze stary hospodar (s manzelkou) obyvat v synove dome, na ktereho budovu prevedl.
              > Slovo "vejminek" pochazi od toho, ze si otec v prevodni smlouve u notare <>vyminil<>, ktere casti domu muze vyuzivat (mistnost k bydleni, kuchyni, zachod, koupelnu, pokud tam byla, apod.) Jinak se totiz stavalo, ze syn si od otce nemovitost vzal a pak otce (a matku) vyhodil s tim, at si otec jde kam chce, jeho ze to nezajima.
              > Je to dukaz toho, ze na vesnici vubec nepanovaly idylicke pomery.
              > Petr Adamek
              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@> wrote:
              > >
              > > In old Czech village speak (which you should be famillar with Melvyn,
              > > with all those statky on your naves in Zehrovice), vejminek/vymenek is
              > > IMHO a house, usually separate or tacked onto another farmyard
              > > building, where the old farmer and his wife goes to live when the farm
              > > is handed-over to the eldest (or whichever) son, i.e. when they
              > > 'retire'.. they are usually still taking part in the daily going-ons
              > > and helping with whatever until they are very old, but they have their
              > > own place to live and don't get into the younger ones' hair that
              > > much... a very sensible arrangement..
              > >
              > > The rent/pension that comes with it would be quite an old thing, in
              > > 19-20th Century I guess their pensions would have been taken care of
              > > pension funds/savings, and they would get food and help from the rest
              > > of the family, but the term wouldn't be applied to money/support, but
              > > the building... that's how it worked on my Gran's farm, which was
              > > buildings-only (no farming except for own use) ever since Granddad got
              > > on the wrong side of a German gun during Heydrichiada and then the
              > > whole thing was taken-over by JZD.. the vymenek was a separate building
              > > across from the main building, funnily enough my uncle, the youngest
              > > son and the only one who stayed there, moved in with his family and
              > > Gran stayed in the main building..
              > >
              > > As for an English term 'Estate retirement cottage' sounds a bit as if
              > > the estate/the farm is actually huge - like one of those English
              > > manors/whatever, containing half the County, and the cottage is some
              > > sort of little thing hidden somewhere in the woods or by the village..
              > >
              > > In Czecho, farms - the ones that were private as opposed to
              > > church/noble family-owned are usually more compact, an enclosed yard
              > > with buildings pretty much all around.. and vymenek/vejminek would be
              > > one of these... where I am now, it was a rather small thing tacked onto
              > > an end of a row of stables, at my Gran's it was a separate and quite a
              > > substantial red brick house.. but it's almost always sort of in balance
              > > with the rest of the buildings, calling it cottage would suggest a)
              > > remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
              > > settings..
              > >
              > > I would go for something like the retirement house (sounds like an
              > > institution, right?), the old farmer's house? Anything that sounds
              > > normal and describes what it is without suggesting too much feudalism
              > > grandeur (unles of course the time and scale this refers to is actually
              > > feudalism)..
              > >
              > > Still at the main building and not likely to be shuffled into vejminek
              > > (which had to be torn-down as the Commie JZD people used it as an
              > > impromptu kitchen for pig feed and it had rotten away from inside)..
              > > Matej
              > >
              > >
              > > ------ Original Message ------
              > > From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@>
              > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: 7.5.2013 11:40:21
              > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Vejminek
              > > > Hi Zdenek,
              > > >
              > > >This the kind of thing you are looking for?
              > > >
              > > >http://familienverband-tritschler.de/index.php?id=85&L=1
              > > >
              > > >BR
              > > >
              > > >Melvyn
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
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