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Vejminek

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  • zdenek_bobek
    Přátelé překladatelé: Vejminek, hezky anglicky. Co vy na to? Díky Zdeněk Bobek [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 12 , May 6, 2013
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      P��tel� p�ekladatel�:

      Vejminek, hezky anglicky. Co vy na to?

      D�ky

      Zden�k Bobek



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Melvyn
      Hi Zdenek, This the kind of thing you are looking for? http://familienverband-tritschler.de/index.php?id=85&L=1 BR Melvyn
      Message 2 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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        Hi Zdenek,

        This the kind of thing you are looking for?

        http://familienverband-tritschler.de/index.php?id=85&L=1

        BR

        Melvyn
      • Valerie Talacko
        I had to translate this several times when subtitling a play last year, and I think I ended up using the word pension. Obviously not the actual equivalent,
        Message 3 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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          I had to translate this several times when subtitling a play last year,
          and I think I ended up using the word "pension." Obviously not the
          actual equivalent, but it was a choice between a legal term that no one
          would have heard of (and wasn't the exact equivalent anyway) and a
          concept that would make sense in a subtitle. Unfortunately I can't
          remember what the legal term was - I came to it via the German
          equivalent of the Czech term, though.

          Valerie

          On 07.05.2013 05:26, zdenek.bobek@... wrote:
          > Pøátelé pøekladatelé:
          >
          > Vejminek, hezky anglicky. Co vy na to?
          >
          > Díky
          >
          > Zdenìk Bobek
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Valerie Talacko
          I should add that I wasn t using the word pension to refer to the building, but to the income (in kind) from the land to which the vymenkar had a right. Will
          Message 4 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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            I should add that I wasn't using the word pension to refer to the
            building, but to the income (in kind) from the land to which the
            vymenkar had a right. Will try and see what I used for the building,
            which I think also came up a couple of times.

            Valerie

            On 07.05.2013 12:03, Valerie Talacko wrote:
            > I had to translate this several times when subtitling a play last
            > year, and I think I ended up using the word "pension." Obviously not
            > the actual equivalent, but it was a choice between a legal term that
            > no one would have heard of (and wasn't the exact equivalent anyway)
            > and a concept that would make sense in a subtitle. Unfortunately I
            > can't remember what the legal term was - I came to it via the German
            > equivalent of the Czech term, though.
            >
            > Valerie
            >
            > On 07.05.2013 05:26, zdenek.bobek@... wrote:
            >> Pøátelé pøekladatelé:
            >>
            >> Vejminek, hezky anglicky. Co vy na to?
            >>
            >> Díky
            >>
            >> Zdenìk Bobek
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
          • James Kirchner
            As far as I know, it is extremely rare to use the word pension to refer to a building anyway. I think I ve only ever seen it in an old translation of a
            Message 5 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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              As far as I know, it is extremely rare to use the word "pension" to refer to a building anyway. I think I've only ever seen it in an old translation of a Balzac novel. At the risk of being attacked by the British again, I'm going to say, "People wouldn't understand it."

              Jamie

              On May 7, 2013, at 6:07 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:

              > I should add that I wasn't using the word pension to refer to the
              > building, but to the income (in kind) from the land to which the
              > vymenkar had a right. Will try and see what I used for the building,
              > which I think also came up a couple of times.
              >
              > Valerie
              >
              > On 07.05.2013 12:03, Valerie Talacko wrote:
              >> I had to translate this several times when subtitling a play last
              >> year, and I think I ended up using the word "pension." Obviously not
              >> the actual equivalent, but it was a choice between a legal term that
              >> no one would have heard of (and wasn't the exact equivalent anyway)
              >> and a concept that would make sense in a subtitle. Unfortunately I
              >> can't remember what the legal term was - I came to it via the German
              >> equivalent of the Czech term, though.
              >>
              >> Valerie
              >>
              >> On 07.05.2013 05:26, zdenek.bobek@... wrote:
              >>> Pratele prekladatele:
              >>>
              >>> Vejminek, hezky anglicky. Co vy na to?
              >>>
              >>> Diky
              >>>
              >>> Zdenek Bobek
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> ------------------------------------
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              > _______________________________________________
              > Czechlist mailing list
              > Czechlist@...
              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


              _______________________________________________
              Czechlist mailing list
              Czechlist@...
              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            • Matej Klimes
              In old Czech village speak (which you should be famillar with Melvyn, with all those statky on your naves in Zehrovice), vejminek/vymenek is IMHO a house,
              Message 6 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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                In old Czech village speak (which you should be famillar with Melvyn,
                with all those statky on your naves in Zehrovice), vejminek/vymenek is
                IMHO a house, usually separate or tacked onto another farmyard
                building, where the old farmer and his wife goes to live when the farm
                is handed-over to the eldest (or whichever) son, i.e. when they
                'retire'.. they are usually still taking part in the daily going-ons
                and helping with whatever until they are very old, but they have their
                own place to live and don't get into the younger ones' hair that
                much... a very sensible arrangement..

                The rent/pension that comes with it would be quite an old thing, in
                19-20th Century I guess their pensions would have been taken care of
                pension funds/savings, and they would get food and help from the rest
                of the family, but the term wouldn't be applied to money/support, but
                the building... that's how it worked on my Gran's farm, which was
                buildings-only (no farming except for own use) ever since Granddad got
                on the wrong side of a German gun during Heydrichiada and then the
                whole thing was taken-over by JZD.. the vymenek was a separate building
                across from the main building, funnily enough my uncle, the youngest
                son and the only one who stayed there, moved in with his family and
                Gran stayed in the main building..

                As for an English term 'Estate retirement cottage' sounds a bit as if
                the estate/the farm is actually huge - like one of those English
                manors/whatever, containing half the County, and the cottage is some
                sort of little thing hidden somewhere in the woods or by the village..

                In Czecho, farms - the ones that were private as opposed to
                church/noble family-owned are usually more compact, an enclosed yard
                with buildings pretty much all around.. and vymenek/vejminek would be
                one of these... where I am now, it was a rather small thing tacked onto
                an end of a row of stables, at my Gran's it was a separate and quite a
                substantial red brick house.. but it's almost always sort of in balance
                with the rest of the buildings, calling it cottage would suggest a)
                remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
                settings..

                I would go for something like the retirement house (sounds like an
                institution, right?), the old farmer's house? Anything that sounds
                normal and describes what it is without suggesting too much feudalism
                grandeur (unles of course the time and scale this refers to is actually
                feudalism)..

                Still at the main building and not likely to be shuffled into vejminek
                (which had to be torn-down as the Commie JZD people used it as an
                impromptu kitchen for pig feed and it had rotten away from inside)..
                Matej


                ------ Original Message ------
                From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: 7.5.2013 11:40:21
                Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Vejminek
                > Hi Zdenek,
                >
                >This the kind of thing you are looking for?
                >
                >http://familienverband-tritschler.de/index.php?id=85&L=1
                >
                >BR
                >
                >Melvyn
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Melvyn
                This is all useful stuff. However, ... Cottages can actually be quite substantial buildings. As Wikipedia says: The term cottage has also been used for a
                Message 7 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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                  This is all useful stuff. However,

                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                  >calling it cottage would suggest a)
                  > remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
                  > settings..

                  Cottages can actually be quite substantial buildings. As Wikipedia says: The term cottage has also been used for a largish house that is practical rather than pretentious, see Chawton Cottage.

                  Myself, I used to live at The Cottages in Longford Park, Stretford. Judge for yourself how small they are:
                  http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1312185
                  Okay this is not your stereotypical rural cottage, but you get my point. These "cottages" are just behind old Longford Hall (now demolished), along with the other outhouses. Hardly remote. And some estates are quite compact too IMHO. :-)

                  But these are just options. "Farmstead", "house", "homestead"? etc will also surely work in many contexts.

                  BR

                  Melvyn
                • James Kirchner
                  Seconded. A caretaker s cottage on the estate of an early 20th century American automotive baron is a fairly large stone house, and the children s home in my
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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                    Seconded. A caretaker's cottage on the estate of an early 20th century American automotive baron is a fairly large stone house, and the children's home in my neighborhood had several cottages built to house as many as 12 people.

                    Jamie

                    On May 7, 2013, at 7:56 AM, Melvyn wrote:

                    > This is all useful stuff. However,
                    >
                    > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                    >> calling it cottage would suggest a)
                    >> remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
                    >> settings..
                    >
                    > Cottages can actually be quite substantial buildings. As Wikipedia says: The term cottage has also been used for a largish house that is practical rather than pretentious, see Chawton Cottage.
                    >
                    > Myself, I used to live at The Cottages in Longford Park, Stretford. Judge for yourself how small they are:
                    > http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1312185
                    > Okay this is not your stereotypical rural cottage, but you get my point. These "cottages" are just behind old Longford Hall (now demolished), along with the other outhouses. Hardly remote. And some estates are quite compact too IMHO. :-)
                    >
                    > But these are just options. "Farmstead", "house", "homestead"? etc will also surely work in many contexts.
                    >
                    > BR
                    >
                    > Melvyn
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Czechlist mailing list
                    > Czechlist@...
                    > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                    _______________________________________________
                    Czechlist mailing list
                    Czechlist@...
                    http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  • Dagmar
                    Vejminek was a place, but by extension it was also used in the sense of to retire (jit na vejminek). In the UK, when you look at some estate agents adverts,
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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                      Vejminek was a place, but by extension it was also used in the sense of 'to retire' (jit na vejminek). In the UK, when you look at some estate agents' adverts, if you have a house with a self contained flat/living unit, often made out of a garage or as an added extension, this is called a 'granny flat'.

                      Interesting discussion about 'cottage' - I guess it depends who's talking - I remember Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility, where the 'cottage' which they were reduced to accept from a wealthy landlady much to their horror and shame, turned out what we would now consider a pretty substantial manor almost :) All's relative..

                      Dagmar

                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > This is all useful stuff. However,
                      >
                      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@> wrote:
                      > >calling it cottage would suggest a)
                      > > remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
                      > > settings..
                      >
                      > Cottages can actually be quite substantial buildings. As Wikipedia says: The term cottage has also been used for a largish house that is practical rather than pretentious, see Chawton Cottage.
                      >
                      > Myself, I used to live at The Cottages in Longford Park, Stretford. Judge for yourself how small they are:
                      > http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1312185
                      > Okay this is not your stereotypical rural cottage, but you get my point. These "cottages" are just behind old Longford Hall (now demolished), along with the other outhouses. Hardly remote. And some estates are quite compact too IMHO. :-)
                      >
                      > But these are just options. "Farmstead", "house", "homestead"? etc will also surely work in many contexts.
                      >
                      > BR
                      >
                      > Melvyn
                      >
                    • Petr
                      Podle mych znalosti vejminek neni (vetsinou) samostatna budova, nybrz mistnost nebo mistnosti, ktere muze stary hospodar (s manzelkou) obyvat v synove dome, na
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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                        Podle mych znalosti vejminek neni (vetsinou) samostatna budova, nybrz mistnost nebo mistnosti, ktere muze stary hospodar (s manzelkou) obyvat v synove dome, na ktereho budovu prevedl.
                        Slovo "vejminek" pochazi od toho, ze si otec v prevodni smlouve u notare <>vyminil<>, ktere casti domu muze vyuzivat (mistnost k bydleni, kuchyni, zachod, koupelnu, pokud tam byla, apod.) Jinak se totiz stavalo, ze syn si od otce nemovitost vzal a pak otce (a matku) vyhodil s tim, at si otec jde kam chce, jeho ze to nezajima.
                        Je to dukaz toho, ze na vesnici vubec nepanovaly idylicke pomery.
                        Petr Adamek
                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > In old Czech village speak (which you should be famillar with Melvyn,
                        > with all those statky on your naves in Zehrovice), vejminek/vymenek is
                        > IMHO a house, usually separate or tacked onto another farmyard
                        > building, where the old farmer and his wife goes to live when the farm
                        > is handed-over to the eldest (or whichever) son, i.e. when they
                        > 'retire'.. they are usually still taking part in the daily going-ons
                        > and helping with whatever until they are very old, but they have their
                        > own place to live and don't get into the younger ones' hair that
                        > much... a very sensible arrangement..
                        >
                        > The rent/pension that comes with it would be quite an old thing, in
                        > 19-20th Century I guess their pensions would have been taken care of
                        > pension funds/savings, and they would get food and help from the rest
                        > of the family, but the term wouldn't be applied to money/support, but
                        > the building... that's how it worked on my Gran's farm, which was
                        > buildings-only (no farming except for own use) ever since Granddad got
                        > on the wrong side of a German gun during Heydrichiada and then the
                        > whole thing was taken-over by JZD.. the vymenek was a separate building
                        > across from the main building, funnily enough my uncle, the youngest
                        > son and the only one who stayed there, moved in with his family and
                        > Gran stayed in the main building..
                        >
                        > As for an English term 'Estate retirement cottage' sounds a bit as if
                        > the estate/the farm is actually huge - like one of those English
                        > manors/whatever, containing half the County, and the cottage is some
                        > sort of little thing hidden somewhere in the woods or by the village..
                        >
                        > In Czecho, farms - the ones that were private as opposed to
                        > church/noble family-owned are usually more compact, an enclosed yard
                        > with buildings pretty much all around.. and vymenek/vejminek would be
                        > one of these... where I am now, it was a rather small thing tacked onto
                        > an end of a row of stables, at my Gran's it was a separate and quite a
                        > substantial red brick house.. but it's almost always sort of in balance
                        > with the rest of the buildings, calling it cottage would suggest a)
                        > remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
                        > settings..
                        >
                        > I would go for something like the retirement house (sounds like an
                        > institution, right?), the old farmer's house? Anything that sounds
                        > normal and describes what it is without suggesting too much feudalism
                        > grandeur (unles of course the time and scale this refers to is actually
                        > feudalism)..
                        >
                        > Still at the main building and not likely to be shuffled into vejminek
                        > (which had to be torn-down as the Commie JZD people used it as an
                        > impromptu kitchen for pig feed and it had rotten away from inside)..
                        > Matej
                        >
                        >
                        > ------ Original Message ------
                        > From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
                        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: 7.5.2013 11:40:21
                        > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Vejminek
                        > > Hi Zdenek,
                        > >
                        > >This the kind of thing you are looking for?
                        > >
                        > >http://familienverband-tritschler.de/index.php?id=85&L=1
                        > >
                        > >BR
                        > >
                        > >Melvyn
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Melvyn
                        ... The old Poldauf dictionary also refers to granny[ s] flat under this heading. BR Melvyn
                        Message 11 of 12 , May 7, 2013
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                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dagmar" <dagmarwt@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Vejminek was a place, but by extension it was also used in the sense of 'to retire' (jit na vejminek). In the UK, when you look at some estate agents' adverts, if you have a house with a self contained flat/living unit, often made out of a garage or as an added extension, this is called a 'granny flat'.

                          The old Poldauf dictionary also refers to "granny['s] flat" under this heading.

                          BR

                          Melvyn
                        • Dagmar
                          I agree, Petr. Even relatively poor families talked about vejminek, all it meant was that the old parents stopped working (doing whatever was their source of
                          Message 12 of 12 , May 8, 2013
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                            I agree, Petr. Even relatively poor families talked about vejminek, all it meant was that the old parents stopped working (doing whatever was their source of income - they could be just poor weavers etc) and just carried on living with the young ones who took over. So it was just used as a term for retiring.. in many a folk tale they would say 'maminka a tatinek uz byli na vejminku'...

                            BW,
                            Dagmar

                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Petr" <padamek@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Podle mych znalosti vejminek neni (vetsinou) samostatna budova, nybrz mistnost nebo mistnosti, ktere muze stary hospodar (s manzelkou) obyvat v synove dome, na ktereho budovu prevedl.
                            > Slovo "vejminek" pochazi od toho, ze si otec v prevodni smlouve u notare <>vyminil<>, ktere casti domu muze vyuzivat (mistnost k bydleni, kuchyni, zachod, koupelnu, pokud tam byla, apod.) Jinak se totiz stavalo, ze syn si od otce nemovitost vzal a pak otce (a matku) vyhodil s tim, at si otec jde kam chce, jeho ze to nezajima.
                            > Je to dukaz toho, ze na vesnici vubec nepanovaly idylicke pomery.
                            > Petr Adamek
                            > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > In old Czech village speak (which you should be famillar with Melvyn,
                            > > with all those statky on your naves in Zehrovice), vejminek/vymenek is
                            > > IMHO a house, usually separate or tacked onto another farmyard
                            > > building, where the old farmer and his wife goes to live when the farm
                            > > is handed-over to the eldest (or whichever) son, i.e. when they
                            > > 'retire'.. they are usually still taking part in the daily going-ons
                            > > and helping with whatever until they are very old, but they have their
                            > > own place to live and don't get into the younger ones' hair that
                            > > much... a very sensible arrangement..
                            > >
                            > > The rent/pension that comes with it would be quite an old thing, in
                            > > 19-20th Century I guess their pensions would have been taken care of
                            > > pension funds/savings, and they would get food and help from the rest
                            > > of the family, but the term wouldn't be applied to money/support, but
                            > > the building... that's how it worked on my Gran's farm, which was
                            > > buildings-only (no farming except for own use) ever since Granddad got
                            > > on the wrong side of a German gun during Heydrichiada and then the
                            > > whole thing was taken-over by JZD.. the vymenek was a separate building
                            > > across from the main building, funnily enough my uncle, the youngest
                            > > son and the only one who stayed there, moved in with his family and
                            > > Gran stayed in the main building..
                            > >
                            > > As for an English term 'Estate retirement cottage' sounds a bit as if
                            > > the estate/the farm is actually huge - like one of those English
                            > > manors/whatever, containing half the County, and the cottage is some
                            > > sort of little thing hidden somewhere in the woods or by the village..
                            > >
                            > > In Czecho, farms - the ones that were private as opposed to
                            > > church/noble family-owned are usually more compact, an enclosed yard
                            > > with buildings pretty much all around.. and vymenek/vejminek would be
                            > > one of these... where I am now, it was a rather small thing tacked onto
                            > > an end of a row of stables, at my Gran's it was a separate and quite a
                            > > substantial red brick house.. but it's almost always sort of in balance
                            > > with the rest of the buildings, calling it cottage would suggest a)
                            > > remoteness and b) smallness that isn't there ion typical Czech
                            > > settings..
                            > >
                            > > I would go for something like the retirement house (sounds like an
                            > > institution, right?), the old farmer's house? Anything that sounds
                            > > normal and describes what it is without suggesting too much feudalism
                            > > grandeur (unles of course the time and scale this refers to is actually
                            > > feudalism)..
                            > >
                            > > Still at the main building and not likely to be shuffled into vejminek
                            > > (which had to be torn-down as the Commie JZD people used it as an
                            > > impromptu kitchen for pig feed and it had rotten away from inside)..
                            > > Matej
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------ Original Message ------
                            > > From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@>
                            > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: 7.5.2013 11:40:21
                            > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Vejminek
                            > > > Hi Zdenek,
                            > > >
                            > > >This the kind of thing you are looking for?
                            > > >
                            > > >http://familienverband-tritschler.de/index.php?id=85&L=1
                            > > >
                            > > >BR
                            > > >
                            > > >Melvyn
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
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