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Re: TERM: Back garden

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  • Melvyn
    ... also, zahradka on its own is one of those zahradkarska ... Very often called allotments in Britain. You can be on the waiting list for an allotment for
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
      also, zahradka on its own is one of those zahradkarska
      > kolonie things, a vegetable patch, or plot I believe it would be called
      > in England,

      Very often called allotments in Britain. You can be on the waiting list for an allotment for years and years.

      >
      > BTW, do you know what 'anglicky dvorek' is?

      Some kind of sklepni svetlik? A basement skylight?

      BR

      Melvyn
    • Matej Klimes
      ... Some kind of sklepni svetlik? A basement skylight? Yes, a concrete box in a dug-out on the side of a building to provide (very little) light and
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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        > BTW, do you know what 'anglicky dvorek' is?

        Some kind of sklepni svetlik? A basement skylight?

        Yes, a concrete box in a dug-out on the side of a building to provide
        (very little) light and ventilation through a window that is under the
        ground level.. I presume it's called anglicky after those things
        Victorian town houses in England have: the wrought iron-fenced bit
        where a few steps take you down to an extra door to the basement level,
        or a little yard to keep your bin in and a window... but it's hardly
        the same..

        It's normally not covered by glass, though, just some grates.. and the
        light does not come directly through it, but through a normal window
        that's inside, the box is typically only a metre or less wide, there
        even are prefab fiberglass ones.. doesn't really fit my understanding
        of a skylight, can't remember what I called it when it popped-up in a
        translation..

        http://www.google.cz/search?q=anglicky+dvorek&client=firefox-a&hs=d3N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0mt6UYfTIoilO4OxgGg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ

        M
        >
        >
        >
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      • James Kirchner
        I don t think you can create an English slogan that means exactly the same thing, but a near equivalent that comes to my mind would be: We see potential that
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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          I don't think you can create an English slogan that means exactly the same thing, but a near equivalent that comes to my mind would be:

          "We see potential that others miss."

          You could argue that this means not only business potential, but worker potential, potential advantages for the community, etc.

          I'll keep thinking.

          Jamie

          On Apr 26, 2013, at 7:48 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

          > I'd like to check a few ideas with native brains, if I may..
          >
          > A client of mine - an investment outfit - has a slogan in ENG on their
          > marketing materials - I think they came up with it themselves by
          > translating it from Czech
          >
          > In Czech, it would be "Vidime hodnoty i tam, kde je ostatni nevidi" As
          > in we find a business and identify all opportunities in it, not only in
          > terms of money/value, but also other hodnoty/values, as in ethical
          > stuff, maybe arts, or community/social impact, possibly extended to
          > charity and corp. responsibility (OK, a bit cheesy for a company that
          > buys-out, cuts costs and then sells, but you know what I mean..)
          >
          > What they did (inevitably) is:
          >
          > "We see values where others don't," which of course is the later claim,
          > values in plural being about ethics, principles, morals etc., BUT NOT
          > about money at the same time like in the Czech version..
          >
          > I suggested just going "We see value where others don't," but they
          > don't like the fact that this is about the money bit only and there's
          > no ambiguity to suggest the nice/ethical bit..
          >
          > I personally think it's a reasonable and OK-sounding claim for this
          > type of company as it is (with value)... and I don't see an easy way of
          > combining value and values in a nice and short claim, but maybe it can
          > be done:
          >
          > We look at values where others only see value..
          >
          > We look at values, not just value..
          >
          >
          >
          > ...Still sounds too complicated and less punchy/copy-like to me, any
          > ideas?
          >
          > On a side note, someone from within the company, a native speaker
          > presumably, said that: on a more minor note I would not use "don't" but
          > "do not". While I think it's still grammatically acceptable to use
          > don't now it is considered lazy and slang still by many (me included J)....
          > ... that sounds weird to me, this type of claim/copy/slogan normally
          > uses things like don't and we'll and using the formal forms makes it
          > clumsy - (We see value where others do not certainly does to me) any
          > comments? (interesting that he writes I would not use and then it's:)
          > Thanks
          > Matej
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > _______________________________________________
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          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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        • Melvyn
          ... Keep it short and snappy and I think this is a fine idea. Solid value. Solid values. For sound value(s) Higher value, highest values Or could you play
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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            >
            > On Apr 26, 2013, at 7:48 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

            > >
            > > We look at values where others only see value..
            > >
            > > We look at values, not just value..

            Keep it short and snappy and I think this is a fine idea.

            Solid value. Solid values.

            For sound value(s)

            Higher value, highest values

            Or could you play around with "worth" and "worthy"? Not just worthy, but worth it. Hmmm.

            BR

            Melvyn
          • James Kirchner
            This one is an outstanding suggestion! WOW! That s the one I would use if I were the client. Jamie ... _______________________________________________
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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              This one is an outstanding suggestion! WOW! That's the one I would use if I were the client.

              Jamie

              On Apr 26, 2013, at 8:42 AM, Melvyn wrote:

              > Solid value. Solid values.

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            • Jirka Bolech
              Hi Melvyn, I beg to differ from the suggestion that zahrada equals back garden. A back garden in Britain is usually zahradka as well (small size) but it is za
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                Hi Melvyn,

                I beg to differ from the suggestion that zahrada equals back garden. A
                back garden in Britain is usually zahradka as well (small size) but it
                is za domem or even simply zadni.

                Zadni (or predni) zahradka could cause some ambiguity as it may refer to
                an outdoor part of a restaurant. Zahradka is also an informal word for
                roof rack.

                Zahrada is often around the house in the Czech Republic.

                Summarizing, I would choose zahrada or zahradka by size only and refer
                to its relative position to the house with whatever expressions fits.
                Predzahradka to mean front garden is obviously fine though...

                Jirka Bolech


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              • Melvyn
                ... Better value, best values Go for value, bring home the values Honey, you forgot the values ...where values are valuables Hmmm, often an awkward word, that.
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:

                  > Solid value. Solid values.
                  >
                  > For sound value(s)
                  >
                  > Higher value, highest values

                  Better value, best values

                  Go for value, bring home the values

                  Honey, you forgot the values

                  ...where values are valuables


                  Hmmm, often an awkward word, that.

                  Melyn
                • Sarka Rubkova
                  Ahoj Melvyne, Anglicky dvorek = dry area (don t ask me why) or areaway (Definition) A small sunken area allowing access or light and air to basement doors or
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                    Ahoj Melvyne,

                    Anglicky dvorek = dry area (don't ask me why) or areaway (Definition) A small sunken area allowing access or light and air to basement doors or windows.
                    Front garden = predzahradka
                    Back garden = (usually) zahrada

                    sarka

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: czechlist-bounces@... [mailto:czechlist-bounces@...] On Behalf Of "Melvyn"
                    Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 1:51 PM
                    To: czechlist@...
                    Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERM: Back garden



                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                    also, zahradka on its own is one of those zahradkarska
                    > kolonie things, a vegetable patch, or plot I believe it would be
                    > called in England,

                    Very often called allotments in Britain. You can be on the waiting list for an allotment for years and years.

                    >
                    > BTW, do you know what 'anglicky dvorek' is?

                    Some kind of sklepni svetlik? A basement skylight?

                    BR

                    Melvyn

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                  • James Kirchner
                    We squeeze value out of our values. The value is our values. Jamie ... _______________________________________________ Czechlist mailing list
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                      We squeeze value out of our values.

                      The value is our values.

                      Jamie

                      On Apr 26, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Melvyn wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Solid value. Solid values.
                      >>
                      >> For sound value(s)
                      >>
                      >> Higher value, highest values
                      >
                      > Better value, best values
                      >
                      > Go for value, bring home the values
                      >
                      > Honey, you forgot the values
                      >
                      > ...where values are valuables
                      >
                      >
                      > Hmmm, often an awkward word, that.
                      >
                      > Melyn
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _______________________________________________
                      > Czechlist mailing list
                      > Czechlist@...
                      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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                    • Valerie Talacko
                      I think it s usually called just the area (or was called that - it may be an old-fashioned term). I remember coming across it in Mary Poppins (or Ballet Shoes,
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                        I think it's usually called just the area (or was called that - it may
                        be an old-fashioned term). I remember coming across it in Mary Poppins
                        (or Ballet Shoes, maybe) and wondering what it was - "Cook was standing
                        in the area door" etc.

                        Valerie

                        On 26.04.2013 15:08, Sarka Rubkova wrote:
                        > Ahoj Melvyne,
                        >
                        > Anglicky dvorek = dry area (don't ask me why) or areaway
                        > (Definition) A small sunken area allowing access or light and air to
                        > basement doors or windows.
                        > Front garden = predzahradka
                        > Back garden = (usually) zahrada
                        >
                        > sarka
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: czechlist-bounces@...
                        > [mailto:czechlist-bounces@...] On Behalf Of "Melvyn"
                        > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 1:51 PM
                        > To: czechlist@...
                        > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERM: Back garden
                        >
                        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > also, zahradka on its own is one of those zahradkarska
                        > > kolonie things, a vegetable patch, or plot I believe it would be
                        > > called in England,
                        >
                        > Very often called allotments in Britain. You can be on the waiting
                        > list for an allotment for years and years.
                        >
                        > >
                        > > BTW, do you know what 'anglicky dvorek' is?
                        >
                        > Some kind of sklepni svetlik? A basement skylight?
                        >
                        > BR
                        >
                        > Melvyn
                        >
                        > _______________________________________________
                        > Czechlist mailing list
                        > Czechlist@...
                        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist [1]
                        >
                        > _______________________________________________
                        > Czechlist mailing list
                        > Czechlist@...
                        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist [1]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Links:
                        > ------
                        > [1] http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                        > [2]
                        >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwMmUydjl0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTE1MTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY2OTgxNzAw?act=reply&messageNum=51510
                        > [3]
                        >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbDFlNGNyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzY2OTgxNzAw
                        > [4]
                        >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/51494;_ylc=X3oDMTM1YzF1ZjZ1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTE1MTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzY2OTgxNzAwBHRwY0lkAzUxNDk0
                        > [5]
                        >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMTI1NTgyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMzY2OTgxNzAw
                        > [6]
                        >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjdXMydDB1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzNjY5ODE3MDA-
                        > [7] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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                      • Matej Klimes
                        Thanks for all suggestions re value-values.. I forgot to mention that the visual that goes with it is a close up of a face of a Greek-like statue, with one of
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                          Thanks for all suggestions re value-values..

                          I forgot to mention that the visual that goes with it is a close up of
                          a face of a Greek-like statue, with one of those "blind" eyes
                          photoshopped into a seeing eye..

                          So ideally it should have see/seeing in it... but then they can always
                          change the visual (well, they may not want to since it's already out
                          there on many things)...

                          We'll see, in any case thanks and keep them coming if you think of
                          anything

                          M


                          ------ Original Message ------
                          From: "James Kirchner" <czechlist@...>
                          To: czechlist@...
                          Sent: 26.4.2013 15:08:51
                          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] value/values in a company slogan..
                          > We squeeze value out of our values.
                          >
                          >The value is our values.
                          >
                          >Jamie
                          >
                          >On Apr 26, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Melvyn wrote:
                          >
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> Solid value. Solid values.
                          >>>
                          >>> For sound value(s)
                          >>>
                          >>> Higher value, highest values
                          >>
                          >> Better value, best values
                          >>
                          >> Go for value, bring home the values
                          >>
                          >> Honey, you forgot the values
                          >>
                          >> ...where values are valuables
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Hmmm, often an awkward word, that.
                          >>
                          >> Melyn
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> _______________________________________________
                          >> Czechlist mailing list
                          >> Czechlist@...
                          >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          >
                          >_______________________________________________
                          >Czechlist mailing list
                          >Czechlist@...
                          >http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Simon
                          Riffing on Melvyn s idea: An eye for value. An eye for values. Call me cynical, but I expect they ll reject any decent ideas we might come up with. Simon
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                            Riffing on Melvyn's idea:

                            An eye for value. An eye for values.

                            Call me cynical, but I expect they'll reject any decent ideas we might come up with.

                            Simon


                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Thanks for all suggestions re value-values..
                            >
                            > I forgot to mention that the visual that goes with it is a close up of
                            > a face of a Greek-like statue, with one of those "blind" eyes
                            > photoshopped into a seeing eye..
                            >
                            > So ideally it should have see/seeing in it... but then they can always
                            > change the visual (well, they may not want to since it's already out
                            > there on many things)...
                            >
                            > We'll see, in any case thanks and keep them coming if you think of
                            > anything
                            >
                            > M
                            >
                            >
                            > ------ Original Message ------
                            > From: "James Kirchner" <czechlist@...>
                            > To: czechlist@...
                            > Sent: 26.4.2013 15:08:51
                            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] value/values in a company slogan..
                            > > We squeeze value out of our values.
                            > >
                            > >The value is our values.
                            > >
                            > >Jamie
                            > >
                            > >On Apr 26, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Melvyn wrote:
                            > >
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >>> Solid value. Solid values.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> For sound value(s)
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Higher value, highest values
                            > >>
                            > >> Better value, best values
                            > >>
                            > >> Go for value, bring home the values
                            > >>
                            > >> Honey, you forgot the values
                            > >>
                            > >> ...where values are valuables
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> Hmmm, often an awkward word, that.
                            > >>
                            > >> Melyn
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> _______________________________________________
                            > >> Czechlist mailing list
                            > >> Czechlist@...
                            > >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            > >
                            > >_______________________________________________
                            > >Czechlist mailing list
                            > >Czechlist@...
                            > >http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Melvyn
                            Keeping an eye out for good value(s) :-) We have an eye for the value within the valuable Value - some only eye it up Value - it it true or is it just you?
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                              Keeping an eye out for good value(s) :-)

                              We have an eye for the value within the valuable

                              Value - some only eye it up

                              Value - it it true or is it just you?

                              Value - some only see the price (thanks, Oscar Wilde)

                              Others seek value, we see value

                              Others see a value, we see the value

                              Always eyeing up the potential

                              (as I say, this hodnota can often be awkward in other contexts too. Jamie's idea could be put to good use here and elsewhere)

                              As for "don't" versus "do not", I think both are possible here. "Do not" is probably best if you want to stay cultivated and refined IMHO.

                              BR

                              Melvyn





                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thanks for all suggestions re value-values..
                              >
                              > I forgot to mention that the visual that goes with it is a close up of
                              > a face of a Greek-like statue, with one of those "blind" eyes
                              > photoshopped into a seeing eye..
                              >
                              > So ideally it should have see/seeing in it... but then they can always
                              > change the visual (well, they may not want to since it's already out
                              > there on many things)...
                              >
                              > We'll see, in any case thanks and keep them coming if you think of
                              > anything
                              >
                              > M
                              >
                              >
                              > ------ Original Message ------
                              > From: "James Kirchner" <czechlist@...>
                              > To: czechlist@...
                              > Sent: 26.4.2013 15:08:51
                              > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] value/values in a company slogan..
                              > > We squeeze value out of our values.
                              > >
                              > >The value is our values.
                              > >
                              > >Jamie
                              > >
                              > >On Apr 26, 2013, at 9:04 AM, Melvyn wrote:
                              > >
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >>> Solid value. Solid values.
                              > >>>
                              > >>> For sound value(s)
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Higher value, highest values
                              > >>
                              > >> Better value, best values
                              > >>
                              > >> Go for value, bring home the values
                              > >>
                              > >> Honey, you forgot the values
                              > >>
                              > >> ...where values are valuables
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> Hmmm, often an awkward word, that.
                              > >>
                              > >> Melyn
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> _______________________________________________
                              > >> Czechlist mailing list
                              > >> Czechlist@...
                              > >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              > >
                              > >_______________________________________________
                              > >Czechlist mailing list
                              > >Czechlist@...
                              > >http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Melvyn
                              ... Course, this sounds very pompous. Try playing around with it and toning it down, e.g. Value. Some see it - some just don t I think don t works better
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:

                                > Others seek value, we see value


                                Course, this sounds very pompous. Try playing around with it and toning it down, e.g.


                                Value. Some see it - some just don't

                                I think "don't" works better here. Probably even more pompous, mind.

                                BR

                                Melvyn
                              • James Kirchner
                                I m not sure what to eye up means. Is it like ogling? Jamie ... _______________________________________________ Czechlist mailing list
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                                  I'm not sure what "to eye up" means. Is it like ogling?

                                  Jamie

                                  On Apr 26, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Melvyn wrote:

                                  > Value - some only eye it up

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                                • Melvyn
                                  ... Yes, it can be: eye something or someone up: ogle, leer at, make eyes at, give (someone) the (glad) eye My brother is forever eyeing up women in the
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 26, 2013
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                                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I'm not sure what "to eye up" means. Is it like ogling?

                                    Yes, it can be:
                                    eye something or someone up: ogle, leer at, make eyes at, give (someone) the (glad) eye My brother is forever eyeing up women in the street.
                                    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/eyeing+up

                                    but it can also have the broader sense of consider, often IMHO with a view to acquiring:

                                    To examine closely something coveted.
                                    www.allwords.com/word-eye+up.html

                                    Lenovo eyeing up IBM's x86 server business

                                    Celtic Manager Neil Lennon Eyeing Up a Top Premier League Job

                                    Boxing - Evans eyeing up switch to professional ranks

                                    One of those little words favoured by British tabloid journalists IMO.

                                    I take it this is not common stateside. Just another of the million pitfalls then.

                                    BR

                                    Melvyn
                                  • Melvyn
                                    ... Is Simon justified in his cynicism? Wasn t the client at least a little impressed? BR Melvyn
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Apr 29, 2013
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                                      >
                                      > Call me cynical, but I expect they'll reject any decent ideas we might come up with.

                                      Is Simon justified in his cynicism? Wasn't the client at least a little impressed?

                                      BR

                                      Melvyn
                                    • Melvyn
                                      Many thanks to Matej, Sarka, Valerie and Jirka for your input on back gardens and areaways. All useful stuff. OK my solution for back gardens might not be
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Apr 29, 2013
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                                        Many thanks to Matej, Sarka, Valerie and Jirka for your input on back gardens and areaways. All useful stuff. OK my solution for back gardens might not be watertight, but I reckon it works more often than not.

                                        BR

                                        Melvyn

                                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Valerie Talacko <valerie@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I think it's usually called just the area (or was called that - it may
                                        > be an old-fashioned term). I remember coming across it in Mary Poppins
                                        > (or Ballet Shoes, maybe) and wondering what it was - "Cook was standing
                                        > in the area door" etc.
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