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Re: [Czechlist] Mechanial (and other) keyboards for translators

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  • James Kirchner
    I wasn t saying you have to go Mac to get a good keyboard. I just meant that the ones that come with Macs are excellent, and if Marek can find one with
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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      I wasn't saying you have to go Mac to get a good keyboard. I just meant that the ones that come with Macs are excellent, and if Marek can find one with similar action and flat keys, that might do the trick. As I mentioned, I've also got a Logitec keyboard for PCs that's almost as good in that regard as the Mac keyboard.

      I think it's the ones with the tall, deep keys that slow things down and cause most of the physical problems. You don't have to go mechanical, just flat and quick-action.

      Jamie

      On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:

      > You don't have to go MAC to get a decent keyboard..
      >
      > The one Marek linked to seems not that good for typing - the
      > bigger/higher the keys the larger the travel, in my experience.. and
      > more travel - less tendon happiness.. there's other things too, how
      > stiff, how sensitive, etc., but as others pointed out, the flatter the
      > keys the better.. PLUS the main thing about a keyboard for me is the
      > key layout.. with special shortcuts such as Alt+Ins, I need a full set
      > of keys between letters and number pad, also, the position and size of
      > Bckspace and arrow keys are important - I find an unfamiliar keyboard
      > slows me down a lot..
      >
      > I've been using quite expensive Logitech keyboards for a number of
      > years, but then they kept changing the layout and it always took me lot
      > of time to get used to a new one.. I went shopping, tried lots of
      > different models and since I knew I was going to need several, I
      > concentrated on layout and feel... I found something called GIGABYTE
      > GK-K7500 (wireless kb+mouse with an USB stick, one set for about CZK
      > 300 if memory serves well) - I knew I shouldn't rely on the
      > manufacturer to keep the same layout, so I bought about five sets...
      > I'm down to last two (four years, two different locations, kids
      > borrowing them to play games, material fatigue, tea spillage..)... They
      > don't make them any more, I was able to buy a different brand but
      > essentially the same thing except for the USB thingy.. but not as
      > good.. they are extremely comfy to use and the layout is great, has
      > everything where it should be and the right size to distinguish between
      > keys/guide your fingers..
      >
      > Bottom thing (IMHO) is to find a KB that has the right layout and
      > comfortable keys (usually the flat ones as opposed to bulky high ones
      > in my experience)... and it doesn't need to be extra fancy or extra
      > expensive, just make sure you stock up because even big manufacturers
      > keep changing everything with every model and it's a nightmare having
      > to get used to a new thing every time you spill your tea over your KB..
      >
      > Matej
      >
      >
      > ------ Original Message ------
      > From: "Zuzana Benesova" <czechlist@...>
      > To: czechlist@...
      > Sent: 8.4.2013 21:35:11
      > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Mechanial (and other) keyboards for translators
      >> I agree with James - I'm a happy Mac user and the keyboards (both
      >> wireless and on my MacBook) are one of the main reasons. I have never
      >> had the slightest problem with my wrists/hands/arms since I started
      >> using them. Very addictive for me, I hate it when I have to use any
      >> other keyboard, eg. on my father's computer (and he has an ergonomic
      >> one!)
      >> Good luck with your choice, Marek.
      >> Zuzka
      >>
      >> 8. 4. 2013 v 19:11, James Kirchner:
      >>
      >>> If you use a PC and can find a keyboard with very flat keys, like on
      >> the current Mac keyboards, that may make your tendons happy. The keys
      >> require very little motion to press, and they may increase your speed
      >> at the same time. I have a Logitec keyboard with keys that are almost,
      >> but not quite as easy to work with.
      >>>
      >>> Jamie
      >>>
      >>> On Apr 8, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Marek Buchtel wrote:
      >>>
      >>>> Hi!
      >>>>
      >>>> I need a new PC keyboard, and I've heard about mechanical
      >> keyboards, which should be more comfortable to type on (and safer for
      >> my tendons).
      >>>>
      >>>> After researching the topic on the web, I plan to buy a keyboard
      >> with Cherry MX Red Switches, in particular Rosewill RK-9000RE.
      >>>>
      >>>> Do you use a mechanical keyboard? If so, what type of switches do
      >> you prefer (red/brown/black, linear/tactile...)? What's your
      >> experience?
      >>>> Any recommendations? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
      >>>>
      >>>> And in general - how do you choose your PC keyboards?
      >>>>
      >>>> Regards,
      >>>>
      >>>> Marek
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> _______________________________________________
      >>>> Czechlist mailing list
      >>>> Czechlist@...
      >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> _______________________________________________
      >>> Czechlist mailing list
      >>> Czechlist@...
      >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      >>
      >> _______________________________________________
      >> Czechlist mailing list
      >> Czechlist@...
      >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      >>
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > Czechlist mailing list
      > Czechlist@...
      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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    • Martin Janda
      Hmmm, interesting. Do they sell those as ergonomic stuff, curved? Because from what I heard, it s the straight and flat shape of the keybord rather than the
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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        Hmmm, interesting. Do they sell those as ergonomic stuff, curved?
        Because from what I heard, it's the straight and flat shape of the
        keybord rather than the key height what keeps your wrists twisted and
        makes the pain...

        Martin


        Dne 8.4.2013 22:30, James Kirchner napsal(a):
        >
        > I wasn't saying you have to go Mac to get a good keyboard. I just
        > meant that the ones that come with Macs are excellent, and if Marek
        > can find one with similar action and flat keys, that might do the
        > trick. As I mentioned, I've also got a Logitec keyboard for PCs that's
        > almost as good in that regard as the Mac keyboard.
        >
        > I think it's the ones with the tall, deep keys that slow things down
        > and cause most of the physical problems. You don't have to go
        > mechanical, just flat and quick-action.
        >
        > Jamie
        >
        > On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
        >
        > > You don't have to go MAC to get a decent keyboard..
        > >
        > > The one Marek linked to seems not that good for typing - the
        > > bigger/higher the keys the larger the travel, in my experience.. and
        > > more travel - less tendon happiness.. there's other things too, how
        > > stiff, how sensitive, etc., but as others pointed out, the flatter the
        > > keys the better.. PLUS the main thing about a keyboard for me is the
        > > key layout.. with special shortcuts such as Alt+Ins, I need a full set
        > > of keys between letters and number pad, also, the position and size of
        > > Bckspace and arrow keys are important - I find an unfamiliar keyboard
        > > slows me down a lot..
        > >
        > > I've been using quite expensive Logitech keyboards for a number of
        > > years, but then they kept changing the layout and it always took me lot
        > > of time to get used to a new one.. I went shopping, tried lots of
        > > different models and since I knew I was going to need several, I
        > > concentrated on layout and feel... I found something called GIGABYTE
        > > GK-K7500 (wireless kb+mouse with an USB stick, one set for about CZK
        > > 300 if memory serves well) - I knew I shouldn't rely on the
        > > manufacturer to keep the same layout, so I bought about five sets...
        > > I'm down to last two (four years, two different locations, kids
        > > borrowing them to play games, material fatigue, tea spillage..)... They
        > > don't make them any more, I was able to buy a different brand but
        > > essentially the same thing except for the USB thingy.. but not as
        > > good.. they are extremely comfy to use and the layout is great, has
        > > everything where it should be and the right size to distinguish between
        > > keys/guide your fingers..
        > >
        > > Bottom thing (IMHO) is to find a KB that has the right layout and
        > > comfortable keys (usually the flat ones as opposed to bulky high ones
        > > in my experience)... and it doesn't need to be extra fancy or extra
        > > expensive, just make sure you stock up because even big manufacturers
        > > keep changing everything with every model and it's a nightmare having
        > > to get used to a new thing every time you spill your tea over your KB..
        > >
        > > Matej
        > >
        > >
        > > ------ Original Message ------
        > > From: "Zuzana Benesova" <czechlist@...
        > <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>>
        > > To: czechlist@... <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        > > Sent: 8.4.2013 21:35:11
        > > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Mechanial (and other) keyboards for translators
        > >> I agree with James - I'm a happy Mac user and the keyboards (both
        > >> wireless and on my MacBook) are one of the main reasons. I have never
        > >> had the slightest problem with my wrists/hands/arms since I started
        > >> using them. Very addictive for me, I hate it when I have to use any
        > >> other keyboard, eg. on my father's computer (and he has an ergonomic
        > >> one!)
        > >> Good luck with your choice, Marek.
        > >> Zuzka
        > >>
        > >> 8. 4. 2013 v 19:11, James Kirchner:
        > >>
        > >>> If you use a PC and can find a keyboard with very flat keys, like on
        > >> the current Mac keyboards, that may make your tendons happy. The keys
        > >> require very little motion to press, and they may increase your speed
        > >> at the same time. I have a Logitec keyboard with keys that are almost,
        > >> but not quite as easy to work with.
        > >>>
        > >>> Jamie
        > >>>
        > >>> On Apr 8, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Marek Buchtel wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>>> Hi!
        > >>>>
        > >>>> I need a new PC keyboard, and I've heard about mechanical
        > >> keyboards, which should be more comfortable to type on (and safer for
        > >> my tendons).
        > >>>>
        > >>>> After researching the topic on the web, I plan to buy a keyboard
        > >> with Cherry MX Red Switches, in particular Rosewill RK-9000RE.
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Do you use a mechanical keyboard? If so, what type of switches do
        > >> you prefer (red/brown/black, linear/tactile...)? What's your
        > >> experience?
        > >>>> Any recommendations? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
        > >>>>
        > >>>> And in general - how do you choose your PC keyboards?
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Regards,
        > >>>>
        > >>>> Marek
        > >>>>
        > >>>>
        > >>>> _______________________________________________
        > >>>> Czechlist mailing list
        > >>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        > >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> _______________________________________________
        > >>> Czechlist mailing list
        > >>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        > >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        > >>
        > >> _______________________________________________
        > >> Czechlist mailing list
        > >> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        > >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > > _______________________________________________
        > > Czechlist mailing list
        > > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > Czechlist mailing list
        > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        >
        >
      • (no author)
        I ve always used straight ones, Martin, and my wrists and fingers seem to be OK.. but then I don t use all 10 fingers, 8 at most... I think it s down to how
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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          I've always used straight ones, Martin, and my wrists and fingers seem
          to be OK.. but then I don't use all 10 fingers, 8 at most...

          I think it's down to how you sit and position your forearms, but each
          to their own, obviously..

          M
          ------ Original Message ------
          From: "Martin Janda" <mjanda@...>
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: 8.4.2013 22:41:02
          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Mechanial (and other) keyboards for translators
          >Hmmm, interesting. Do they sell those as ergonomic stuff, curved?
          >Because from what I heard, it's the straight and flat shape of the
          >keybord rather than the key height what keeps your wrists twisted and
          >makes the pain...
          >
          >Martin
          >
          >
          >Dne 8.4.2013 22:30, James Kirchner napsal(a):
          >
          >>
          >>
          >>I wasn't saying you have to go Mac to get a good keyboard. I just
          >>meant that the ones that come with Macs are excellent, and if Marek
          >>can find one with similar action and flat keys, that might do the
          >>trick. As I mentioned, I've also got a Logitec keyboard for PCs that's
          >>almost as good in that regard as the Mac keyboard.
          >>
          >>I think it's the ones with the tall, deep keys that slow things down
          >>and cause most of the physical problems. You don't have to go
          >>mechanical, just flat and quick-action.
          >>
          >>Jamie
          >>
          >>On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
          >>
          >>> You don't have to go MAC to get a decent keyboard..
          >>>
          >>> The one Marek linked to seems not that good for typing - the
          >>> bigger/higher the keys the larger the travel, in my experience.. and
          >>> more travel - less tendon happiness.. there's other things too, how
          >>> stiff, how sensitive, etc., but as others pointed out, the flatter the
          >>> keys the better.. PLUS the main thing about a keyboard for me is the
          >>> key layout.. with special shortcuts such as Alt+Ins, I need a full set
          >>> of keys between letters and number pad, also, the position and size of
          >>> Bckspace and arrow keys are important - I find an unfamiliar keyboard
          >>> slows me down a lot..
          >>>
          >>> I've been using quite expensive Logitech keyboards for a number of
          >>> years, but then they kept changing the layout and it always took me lot
          >>> of time to get used to a new one.. I went shopping, tried lots of
          >>> different models and since I knew I was going to need several, I
          >>> concentrated on layout and feel... I found something called GIGABYTE
          >>> GK-K7500 (wireless kb+mouse with an USB stick, one set for about CZK
          >>> 300 if memory serves well) - I knew I shouldn't rely on the
          >>> manufacturer to keep the same layout, so I bought about five sets...
          >>> I'm down to last two (four years, two different locations, kids
          >>> borrowing them to play games, material fatigue, tea spillage..)... They
          >>> don't make them any more, I was able to buy a different brand but
          >>> essentially the same thing except for the USB thingy.. but not as
          >>> good.. they are extremely comfy to use and the layout is great, has
          >>> everything where it should be and the right size to distinguish between
          >>> keys/guide your fingers..
          >>>
          >>> Bottom thing (IMHO) is to find a KB that has the right layout and
          >>> comfortable keys (usually the flat ones as opposed to bulky high ones
          >>> in my experience)... and it doesn't need to be extra fancy or extra
          >>> expensive, just make sure you stock up because even big manufacturers
          >>> keep changing everything with every model and it's a nightmare having
          >>> to get used to a new thing every time you spill your tea over your KB..
          >>>
          >>> Matej
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> ------ Original Message ------
          >>> From: "Zuzana Benesova" <czechlist@...
          >><mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>>
          >>> To: czechlist@... <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>
          >>> Sent: 8.4.2013 21:35:11
          >>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Mechanial (and other) keyboards for translators
          >>>> I agree with James - I'm a happy Mac user and the keyboards (both
          >>>> wireless and on my MacBook) are one of the main reasons. I have never
          >>>> had the slightest problem with my wrists/hands/arms since I started
          >>>> using them. Very addictive for me, I hate it when I have to use any
          >>>> other keyboard, eg. on my father's computer (and he has an ergonomic
          >>>> one!)
          >>>> Good luck with your choice, Marek.
          >>>> Zuzka
          >>>>
          >>>> 8. 4. 2013 v 19:11, James Kirchner:
          >>>>
          >>>>> If you use a PC and can find a keyboard with very flat keys, like on
          >>>> the current Mac keyboards, that may make your tendons happy. The keys
          >>>> require very little motion to press, and they may increase your speed
          >>>> at the same time. I have a Logitec keyboard with keys that are almost,
          >>>> but not quite as easy to work with.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Jamie
          >>>>>
          >>>>> On Apr 8, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Marek Buchtel wrote:
          >>>>>
          >>>>>> Hi!
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> I need a new PC keyboard, and I've heard about mechanical
          >>>> keyboards, which should be more comfortable to type on (and safer for
          >>>> my tendons).
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> After researching the topic on the web, I plan to buy a keyboard
          >>>> with Cherry MX Red Switches, in particular Rosewill RK-9000RE.
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> Do you use a mechanical keyboard? If so, what type of switches do
          >>>> you prefer (red/brown/black, linear/tactile...)? What's your
          >>>> experience?
          >>>>>> Any recommendations? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> And in general - how do you choose your PC keyboards?
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> Regards,
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> Marek
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> _______________________________________________
          >>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
          >>>>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
          >>>>>>
          >>http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>> _______________________________________________
          >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
          >>>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
          >>>>>
          >>http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >>>>
          >>>> _______________________________________________
          >>>> Czechlist mailing list
          >>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
          >>>>
          >>http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >>>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>
          >>> _______________________________________________
          >>> Czechlist mailing list
          >>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
          >>>
          >>http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >>
          >>_______________________________________________
          >>Czechlist mailing list
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          >>
          >>http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >>
          >>
          >>
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        • James Kirchner
          A traditional keyboard isn t flat, though. It s deep. You have to stress the muscles by retracting your hands to raise them to the keyboard. That s why they
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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            A traditional keyboard isn't flat, though. It's deep. You have to stress the muscles by retracting your hands to raise them to the keyboard. That's why they make those gel cushions to rest your wrist on. They bring your wrists higher and eliminate the need to pull your hands up. With very flat keyboards, you can just kind of rest your hands and lightly tap.

            Jamie

            On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Martin Janda wrote:

            > Hmmm, interesting. Do they sell those as ergonomic stuff, curved?
            > Because from what I heard, it's the straight and flat shape of the
            > keybord rather than the key height what keeps your wrists twisted and
            > makes the pain...
            >
            > Martin
            >
            >
            > Dne 8.4.2013 22:30, James Kirchner napsal(a):
            >>
            >> I wasn't saying you have to go Mac to get a good keyboard. I just
            >> meant that the ones that come with Macs are excellent, and if Marek
            >> can find one with similar action and flat keys, that might do the
            >> trick. As I mentioned, I've also got a Logitec keyboard for PCs that's
            >> almost as good in that regard as the Mac keyboard.
            >>
            >> I think it's the ones with the tall, deep keys that slow things down
            >> and cause most of the physical problems. You don't have to go
            >> mechanical, just flat and quick-action.
            >>
            >> Jamie
            >>
            >> On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
            >>
            >>> You don't have to go MAC to get a decent keyboard..
            >>>
            >>> The one Marek linked to seems not that good for typing - the
            >>> bigger/higher the keys the larger the travel, in my experience.. and
            >>> more travel - less tendon happiness.. there's other things too, how
            >>> stiff, how sensitive, etc., but as others pointed out, the flatter the
            >>> keys the better.. PLUS the main thing about a keyboard for me is the
            >>> key layout.. with special shortcuts such as Alt+Ins, I need a full set
            >>> of keys between letters and number pad, also, the position and size of
            >>> Bckspace and arrow keys are important - I find an unfamiliar keyboard
            >>> slows me down a lot..
            >>>
            >>> I've been using quite expensive Logitech keyboards for a number of
            >>> years, but then they kept changing the layout and it always took me lot
            >>> of time to get used to a new one.. I went shopping, tried lots of
            >>> different models and since I knew I was going to need several, I
            >>> concentrated on layout and feel... I found something called GIGABYTE
            >>> GK-K7500 (wireless kb+mouse with an USB stick, one set for about CZK
            >>> 300 if memory serves well) - I knew I shouldn't rely on the
            >>> manufacturer to keep the same layout, so I bought about five sets...
            >>> I'm down to last two (four years, two different locations, kids
            >>> borrowing them to play games, material fatigue, tea spillage..)... They
            >>> don't make them any more, I was able to buy a different brand but
            >>> essentially the same thing except for the USB thingy.. but not as
            >>> good.. they are extremely comfy to use and the layout is great, has
            >>> everything where it should be and the right size to distinguish between
            >>> keys/guide your fingers..
            >>>
            >>> Bottom thing (IMHO) is to find a KB that has the right layout and
            >>> comfortable keys (usually the flat ones as opposed to bulky high ones
            >>> in my experience)... and it doesn't need to be extra fancy or extra
            >>> expensive, just make sure you stock up because even big manufacturers
            >>> keep changing everything with every model and it's a nightmare having
            >>> to get used to a new thing every time you spill your tea over your KB..
            >>>
            >>> Matej
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> ------ Original Message ------
            >>> From: "Zuzana Benesova" <czechlist@...
            >> <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>>
            >>> To: czechlist@... <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>
            >>> Sent: 8.4.2013 21:35:11
            >>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Mechanial (and other) keyboards for translators
            >>>> I agree with James - I'm a happy Mac user and the keyboards (both
            >>>> wireless and on my MacBook) are one of the main reasons. I have never
            >>>> had the slightest problem with my wrists/hands/arms since I started
            >>>> using them. Very addictive for me, I hate it when I have to use any
            >>>> other keyboard, eg. on my father's computer (and he has an ergonomic
            >>>> one!)
            >>>> Good luck with your choice, Marek.
            >>>> Zuzka
            >>>>
            >>>> 8. 4. 2013 v 19:11, James Kirchner:
            >>>>
            >>>>> If you use a PC and can find a keyboard with very flat keys, like on
            >>>> the current Mac keyboards, that may make your tendons happy. The keys
            >>>> require very little motion to press, and they may increase your speed
            >>>> at the same time. I have a Logitec keyboard with keys that are almost,
            >>>> but not quite as easy to work with.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Jamie
            >>>>>
            >>>>> On Apr 8, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Marek Buchtel wrote:
            >>>>>
            >>>>>> Hi!
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> I need a new PC keyboard, and I've heard about mechanical
            >>>> keyboards, which should be more comfortable to type on (and safer for
            >>>> my tendons).
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> After researching the topic on the web, I plan to buy a keyboard
            >>>> with Cherry MX Red Switches, in particular Rosewill RK-9000RE.
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> Do you use a mechanical keyboard? If so, what type of switches do
            >>>> you prefer (red/brown/black, linear/tactile...)? What's your
            >>>> experience?
            >>>>>> Any recommendations? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> And in general - how do you choose your PC keyboards?
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> Regards,
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> Marek
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> _______________________________________________
            >>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
            >>>>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
            >>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>> _______________________________________________
            >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
            >>>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
            >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            >>>>
            >>>> _______________________________________________
            >>>> Czechlist mailing list
            >>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
            >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            >>>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>>
            >>> _______________________________________________
            >>> Czechlist mailing list
            >>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
            >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            >>
            >> _______________________________________________
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          • Zuzana Benesova
            I second what Jamie says. I am quite short and so are my hands and fingers, so with my old keyboard my forearms and palms were at 45+ degrees angle (rising my
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 8, 2013
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              I second what Jamie says. I am quite short and so are my hands and fingers, so with my old keyboard my forearms and palms were at 45+ degrees angle (rising my hands to type) which gave me cramps. With flat keyboard and flat and easy keys my hands lie almost flat and all tension is gone.

              I also agree the way your body is built and the way you customarily position your arms / hands and generally your position while working are relevant. I could never use those curved keyboards since they are just too wide for my small hands and I'd have to twist them considerably to reach the outer keys.

              Didn't mean to force Mac on anyone, either :-) Just saying the flatness helped my hands a lot.

              Zuzka

              8. 4. 2013 v 22:55, James Kirchner:

              > A traditional keyboard isn't flat, though. It's deep. You have to stress the muscles by retracting your hands to raise them to the keyboard. That's why they make those gel cushions to rest your wrist on. They bring your wrists higher and eliminate the need to pull your hands up. With very flat keyboards, you can just kind of rest your hands and lightly tap.
              >
              > Jamie
              >
              > On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Martin Janda wrote:
              >
              >> Hmmm, interesting. Do they sell those as ergonomic stuff, curved?
              >> Because from what I heard, it's the straight and flat shape of the
              >> keybord rather than the key height what keeps your wrists twisted and
              >> makes the pain...
              >>
              >> Martin
              >>
              >>
              >> Dne 8.4.2013 22:30, James Kirchner napsal(a):
              >>>
              >>> I wasn't saying you have to go Mac to get a good keyboard. I just
              >>> meant that the ones that come with Macs are excellent, and if Marek
              >>> can find one with similar action and flat keys, that might do the
              >>> trick. As I mentioned, I've also got a Logitec keyboard for PCs that's
              >>> almost as good in that regard as the Mac keyboard.
              >>>
              >>> I think it's the ones with the tall, deep keys that slow things down
              >>> and cause most of the physical problems. You don't have to go
              >>> mechanical, just flat and quick-action.
              >>>
              >>> Jamie
              >>>
              >>> On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
              >>>
              >>>> You don't have to go MAC to get a decent keyboard..
              >>>>
              >>>> The one Marek linked to seems not that good for typing - the
              >>>> bigger/higher the keys the larger the travel, in my experience.. and
              >>>> more travel - less tendon happiness.. there's other things too, how
              >>>> stiff, how sensitive, etc., but as others pointed out, the flatter the
              >>>> keys the better.. PLUS the main thing about a keyboard for me is the
              >>>> key layout.. with special shortcuts such as Alt+Ins, I need a full set
              >>>> of keys between letters and number pad, also, the position and size of
              >>>> Bckspace and arrow keys are important - I find an unfamiliar keyboard
              >>>> slows me down a lot..
              >>>>
              >>>> I've been using quite expensive Logitech keyboards for a number of
              >>>> years, but then they kept changing the layout and it always took me lot
              >>>> of time to get used to a new one.. I went shopping, tried lots of
              >>>> different models and since I knew I was going to need several, I
              >>>> concentrated on layout and feel... I found something called GIGABYTE
              >>>> GK-K7500 (wireless kb+mouse with an USB stick, one set for about CZK
              >>>> 300 if memory serves well) - I knew I shouldn't rely on the
              >>>> manufacturer to keep the same layout, so I bought about five sets...
              >>>> I'm down to last two (four years, two different locations, kids
              >>>> borrowing them to play games, material fatigue, tea spillage..)... They
              >>>> don't make them any more, I was able to buy a different brand but
              >>>> essentially the same thing except for the USB thingy.. but not as
              >>>> good.. they are extremely comfy to use and the layout is great, has
              >>>> everything where it should be and the right size to distinguish between
              >>>> keys/guide your fingers..
              >>>>
              >>>> Bottom thing (IMHO) is to find a KB that has the right layout and
              >>>> comfortable keys (usually the flat ones as opposed to bulky high ones
              >>>> in my experience)... and it doesn't need to be extra fancy or extra
              >>>> expensive, just make sure you stock up because even big manufacturers
              >>>> keep changing everything with every model and it's a nightmare having
              >>>> to get used to a new thing every time you spill your tea over your KB..
              >>>>
              >>>> Matej
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>> ------ Original Message ------
              >>>> From: "Zuzana Benesova" <czechlist@...
              >>> <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>>
              >>>> To: czechlist@... <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>
              >>>> Sent: 8.4.2013 21:35:11
              >>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Mechanial (and other) keyboards for translators
              >>>>> I agree with James - I'm a happy Mac user and the keyboards (both
              >>>>> wireless and on my MacBook) are one of the main reasons. I have never
              >>>>> had the slightest problem with my wrists/hands/arms since I started
              >>>>> using them. Very addictive for me, I hate it when I have to use any
              >>>>> other keyboard, eg. on my father's computer (and he has an ergonomic
              >>>>> one!)
              >>>>> Good luck with your choice, Marek.
              >>>>> Zuzka
              >>>>>
              >>>>> 8. 4. 2013 v 19:11, James Kirchner:
              >>>>>
              >>>>>> If you use a PC and can find a keyboard with very flat keys, like on
              >>>>> the current Mac keyboards, that may make your tendons happy. The keys
              >>>>> require very little motion to press, and they may increase your speed
              >>>>> at the same time. I have a Logitec keyboard with keys that are almost,
              >>>>> but not quite as easy to work with.
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> Jamie
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> On Apr 8, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Marek Buchtel wrote:
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Hi!
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> I need a new PC keyboard, and I've heard about mechanical
              >>>>> keyboards, which should be more comfortable to type on (and safer for
              >>>>> my tendons).
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> After researching the topic on the web, I plan to buy a keyboard
              >>>>> with Cherry MX Red Switches, in particular Rosewill RK-9000RE.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Do you use a mechanical keyboard? If so, what type of switches do
              >>>>> you prefer (red/brown/black, linear/tactile...)? What's your
              >>>>> experience?
              >>>>>>> Any recommendations? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> And in general - how do you choose your PC keyboards?
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Regards,
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Marek
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
              >>>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
              >>>>>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
              >>>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
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              >>>>>
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              >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
              >>>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>>
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            • Kostas
              Keyboard that I prefer most is depicted here (I refer only to the kind of keys and their setup available on external keyboards as well):
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 9, 2013
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                Keyboard that I prefer most is depicted here (I refer only to the kind of keys and their setup available on external keyboards as well):


                http://accessories.over-blog.us/article-laptop-accessory-how-to-open-an-ibm-thinkpad-keyboard-112909637.html

                Simply: low keys adjacent one to another without spaces around them. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any laptop on the market today that would have these.

                K.

                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Buchtel" <brundibar@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi!
                >
                > I need a new PC keyboard, and I've heard about mechanical keyboards, which should be more comfortable to type on (and safer for my tendons).
                >
                > After researching the topic on the web, I plan to buy a keyboard with Cherry MX Red Switches, in particular Rosewill RK-9000RE.
                >
                > Do you use a mechanical keyboard? If so, what type of switches do you prefer (red/brown/black, linear/tactile...)? What's your experience?
                > Any recommendations? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
                >
                > And in general - how do you choose your PC keyboards?
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Marek
                >
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