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Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist] LEGALESE: act of God + floods

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  • Charles Stanford
    Cannot comment on the Czech Jirka, but I always thought force majeure and acts of God were the same until recently when I (like you) came across them being
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 3, 2013
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      Cannot comment on the Czech Jirka, but I always thought force majeure and
      acts of God were the same until recently when I (like you) came across them
      being taken to mean separate things in a contract. If you look up FM on
      Wikipedia it is defined as an "extraordinary event or circumstance beyond
      the control of the parties, such as a war <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War>
      , strike <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_action>,
      riot<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot>,
      crime, or an event described by the legal term *act of
      God<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God>
      *(such as hurricane <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane>,
      flooding<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding>
      , earthquake <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake>, volcanic
      eruption<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_eruption>,
      etc.)" - so FM is something beyond your control and an act of God is
      something more along the lines of what insurers call a "natural peril". God
      knows how you differentiate between the two in Czech and maybe Matej is
      right and you shouldn't bother.

      As regards your flooding, I have been trying to think up something but
      can't. You do come across "floods and inundation" as a pretty common
      collocation - I suppose the floods are rising waters and the inundation is
      heavy-rainfall-related. Found this which maybe explains the difference in
      English a bit:

      "*As mean sea level rise (MSLR) accelerates, it will become increasingly
      necessary and useful to distinguish coastal �flooding� from �inundation.�
      The growing number of coastal MSLR vulnerability assessments makes it clear
      that confused usage is abundant. We propose that the term �flooding� be
      used when dry areas become wet temporarily�either periodically or
      episodically�and that �inundation� be used to denote the process of a dry
      area being permanently drowned or submerged. According to these proposed
      definitions, flooding is always higher than inundation, but they are
      fundamentally different. Flooding, including tidal flooding, is and has
      been dominant along open coasts. However, inundation is likely to become
      ever more important in the coming decades and centuries and may itself
      eventually become a dominant physical coastal process. Differentiating
      between the two will clarify and emphasize the differences between these
      processes.*"


      It is all a bit too heavy I reckon though - everyone just talks about
      flooding.



      2013/4/3 Matej Klimes <mklimes@...>

      > **
      >
      >
      > Ja osobne jsem uz ve smlouvach videl ledacos..
      >
      > - v ENG vetsinou Act of God nebo Force Majeure, oboje zatim ne, ale
      > povazuju to za duplikaci a takove to vycurane "dame tam vsechno mozne i
      > nemozne" - jako v jinych pripadech ve smlouvach, pokud pro vsechny
      > polozky daneho seznamu neexistuji obhajitelne a rozumne znejici ruzne
      > preklady, snazim se tam nacpat kolik se jich vejde, aniz bych to
      > prehanel a opakoval se..
      >
      > - v CZ vetsinou vyssi moc, bozi vule a skutky boha jsem (zaplatpanbuh)
      > jeste nezaznamenal, a doufam ze ani nezaznamenam, Jirko proboha nedavej
      > to tam, nekde se to objevi a dalsich 50 let to budou lidi opakovat az
      > se z toho stane norma.. Okolnosti vylucujici odpovednost jsou hezke,
      > ale jako nadpis clanku atd... ve vete kde je FM bych osobne pouzil
      > vyssi moc.. rozhodne bych nekombinoval vyssi moc a bozi vuli nebo
      > cokoli s bohem (nejen proto, ze jsme takovi ateisti, ale taky ze v CZ
      > to jednoznacne znamena neco boziho, pambickarskeho, kdezto v ENG to
      > historicky znamena neco podobneho, ba mozna, doufam si tvrdit, stejneho
      > jako FM)... zato kdyby Ti chybely polozky do seznamu a chtel jsi byt
      > stejne rozvlacny a vycurany jako original, klidne bych uvedl za sebou
      > vyssi moc a okolnosti vylucujici odpovednost..
      >
      > Tohle je spis o selskem rozumu nez o pravu, rekl bych..
      >
      > M
      >
      >
      > ------ Original Message ------
      > From: "Pilucha, Jiri" <jiri.pilucha@...>
      > To: "Czechlist@yahoogroups.com" <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: 3.4.2013 21:38:12
      > Subject: RE: [Czechlist] LEGALESE: act of God + floods
      > >je to v � 374 Obchodniho zakoniku
      > >
      > >From: Pilucha, Jiri
      > >Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:35 PM
      > >To: 'Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <%26%2339%3BCzechlist%40yahoogroups.com>'
      > >Subject: RE: [Czechlist] LEGALESE: act of God + floods
      > >
      > >v ceskem pravnim radu se to jmenuje "okolnosti vylucujici odpovednost"
      > >
      > >
      > >From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jirka Bolech
      > >Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 5:28 PM
      > >To: czechlist@...<mailto:czechlist@...>
      > >Subject: [Czechlist] LEGALESE: act of God + floods
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Zdravim:
      > >
      > >spise ze zvedavosti nez jako zadost o radu by me zajimaly nazory na
      > >preklad 'acts of God' ve vyctu prikladu vyssi moci jako priciny neplneni
      > >a podobne. Je takova polozka slucitelna s pravnim prostredim Ceske
      > >republiky? Me napada prelozit to jako vyssi moc jako takovou, ale pokud
      > >je ve stejnem textu jeste 'force majeure', asi by to chtelo nejak od
      > >sebe odlisit nebo vynechat jako redundanci. Nebo to proste na urovni
      > >prekladu neresit a nechat to jako 'skutky boha', 'bozi vuli' nebo
      > >"buhvi" co?
      > >
      > >Pak me jeste napadlo, ze v Cesku je pravni rozdil (treba v
      > >pojistovnictvi) mezi "povodni" a "zaplavou" (pripadne jejich
      > >odvozeninami). Mam pocit, ze 'flood' pokryva oba vyznamy a ze by bylo
      > >nejlepsi pri pravnim charakteru dokumentu prekladat 'flood' v obecnych
      > >souvislostech obema slovy. Souhlas?
      > >
      > >Jirka Bolech
      > >
      > >_______________________________________________
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      > >http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > >
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • (no author)
      ... From: Charles Stanford To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: 4.4.2013 0:17:20 Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist]
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 4, 2013
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        ------ Original Message ------
        From: "Charles Stanford" <charliestanfordtranslations@...>
        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: 4.4.2013 0:17:20
        Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist] LEGALESE: act of God + floods
        >or an event described by the legal term *act of
        >God<
        >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God>
        >*(such as hurricane <
        >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane>,
        >flooding<
        >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding>
        >, earthquake <
        >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake>, volcanic
        >eruption<
        >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_eruption>,
        >etc.)" - so FM is something beyond your control and an act of God is
        >something more along the lines of what insurers call a "natural peril".
        >
        >In that case we'd call it prirodni katastrofa - that covers everything above.. but it is all included in FM, right? That's why Czech contracts usually just say vyssi moc and then name lots of things, including these..
        >
        >
        >
        >In any case here's your solution, Jirka, shove in prirodni katastrofa and you're done, no god involved in Czech :)
        >
        >
        >
        >M
        >
      • Jirka Bolech
        Diky moc vsem za reakce. Okolnosti vylucujici zopodvednost , jakozto termin definovany v Obchodnim zakoniku, je presne takovy vyraz, jaky jsem potreboval
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 4, 2013
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          Diky moc vsem za reakce. "Okolnosti vylucujici zopodvednost", jakozto
          termin definovany v Obchodnim zakoniku, je presne takovy vyraz, jaky
          jsem potreboval slyset, at uz jako preklad "force majeure' nebo "acts of
          God" nebo "circumstances beyond someone's control" atd.

          Co se tyka rozdilu mezi "povodni" a "zaplavou, nena tezke se dopidit na
          webu; napriklad clanek:
          http://www.novinky.cz/finance/208477-pojistovny-rozlisuji-zaplavu-a-povoden-mnozi-poskozeni-tak-nic-nedostanou.html.
          V anglictine jsem to vzdy bral tak, ze "flood" a "inundation" jsou
          prakticky synonyma, kdy to druhe je formalnejsi. V obou jazycich jsou
          dalsi vyrazy s podobnym vyznamem (zatopeni, high water...) a tipnul bych
          si, ze rozliseni, ktere je popsane treba ve vyse uvedenem clanku,
          nevzniklo s puvodnim vyznamem slov, ale (mnohem) pozdeji. Podobne
          prekvapive muze byt rozliseni mezi ledovkou a naledim, pripadne jeste
          namrazou. Pozor pri prekladani, kde na takovych rozlisenich zalezi...!

          Jirka Bolech

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