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Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity

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  • James Kirchner
    I don t think US law requires the website owner to be identified, and it probably falls under the principle of caveat emptor. However, there are strict laws
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
      I don't think US law requires the website owner to be identified, and it probably falls under the principle of caveat emptor. However, there are strict laws about spam e-mail here.

      In our translators association I often have to make members understand that when an agency's website has no real contact information, it shouldn't be trusted. You'd think it would be common sense, but apparently it's not.

      Jamie

      On Mar 22, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Josef Hlavac wrote:

      > In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a.
      >
      > Have no idea about US or Japanese laws.
      >
      > And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the contact info, not two, and careful fine print reading -- if you hadn't said it was there, I would have given up.
      >
      > JH
      >
      > On 22.3.2013 1:12, czechlist-bounces@... wrote:
      >> By the
      >> way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
      >> Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > Czechlist mailing list
      > Czechlist@...
      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


      _______________________________________________
      Czechlist mailing list
      Czechlist@...
      http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
    • Josef Hlavac
      Well, in case of this particular website, the contact information actually is there.... including fancy Google maps of their Tokyo, Japan and San Mateo, Calif.
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
        Well, in case of this particular website, the contact information
        actually is there.... including fancy Google maps of their Tokyo, Japan
        and San Mateo, Calif. offices, phone numbers, etc. It's just not very
        conspicious.

        I clicked "About us", no real company info there. Clicked "Contact &
        Support", again, no real company info there. Normally, I would have
        given up at this point, thinking of "another website owner that probably
        has a good reason to stay anonymous". Only after more careful looking I
        noticed the link pointing to the office address etc.

        By the way, it's interesting to see that you consider US spam laws
        "strict". I might be wrong but I believe that you can actually spam as
        much as you like in the US, you just have to provide a simple and
        functional opt-out mechanism and perhaps real company contact details in
        each spam message. In CZ, you first have to obtain the recipient's
        permission before you can send them any unsolicited marketing mails. Now
        that's what I'd call strict... (of course, actual enforcement is a
        totally different chapter).

        Josef

        On 22.3.2013 16:49, James Kirchner wrote:
        > I don't think US law requires the website owner to be identified, and it probably falls under the principle of caveat emptor. However, there are strict laws about spam e-mail here.
        >
        > In our translators association I often have to make members understand that when an agency's website has no real contact information, it shouldn't be trusted. You'd think it would be common sense, but apparently it's not.
        >
        > Jamie
        >
        > On Mar 22, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Josef Hlavac wrote:
        >
        >> In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a.
        >>
        >> Have no idea about US or Japanese laws.
        >>
        >> And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the contact info, not two, and careful fine print reading -- if you hadn't said it was there, I would have given up.
        >>
        >> JH
        >>
        >> On 22.3.2013 1:12, czechlist-bounces@... wrote:
        >>> By the
        >>> way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
        >>> Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?
        >>
        >> _______________________________________________
        >> Czechlist mailing list
        >> Czechlist@...
        >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > Czechlist mailing list
        > Czechlist@...
        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


        _______________________________________________
        Czechlist mailing list
        Czechlist@...
        http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      • James Kirchner
        Yes, in fact you re right. Not all spam has to be opt-in in the US, but there has to be a clear opt-out mechanism, and there is an indicia you have to include
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
          Yes, in fact you're right. Not all spam has to be opt-in in the US, but there has to be a clear opt-out mechanism, and there is an indicia you have to include at the bottom of the e-mail. Nonetheless, the amount of spam I receive from inside the US is quite small, possibly because an e-mail sent to an unknown person is what in sales is called a "cold lead", and companies would rather focus on "qualified leads", which in this case would be people who have shown interest in their services and have opted in to receive e-mails. So this is apparently another thing that the market takes care of.

          The only time US law requires that you receive the recipient's permission before sending an e-mail seems to be when you want to make contact with a potential mail-order bride from a website. There have been a lot of crimes involving such women -- very many of them perpetrated by the defective American husband against the foreign woman -- and Congress decided to make it harder to contact the woman. A lot of "bride" websites moved off shore for that reason, from what I have read.

          Jamie

          On Mar 22, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Josef Hlavac wrote:

          > By the way, it's interesting to see that you consider US spam laws "strict". I might be wrong but I believe that you can actually spam as much as you like in the US, you just have to provide a simple and functional opt-out mechanism and perhaps real company contact details in each spam message. In CZ, you first have to obtain the recipient's permission before you can send them any unsolicited marketing mails. Now that's what I'd call strict... (of course, actual enforcement is a totally different chapter).

          _______________________________________________
          Czechlist mailing list
          Czechlist@...
          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        • Foren - Helga
          Right, some of the information I would like to know is actually on the website (even though kind of hidden). True is also, that I believed my statement
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
            Right, some of the information I would like to know is actually on the
            website (even though kind of hidden).
            True is also, that I believed my statement regarding the "prominent
            placement" of such information is contained in all legislations (of
            "advanced" countries) to be true. Well, as I found out, it actually is
            only for the EU (EU legislation) and some other countries. In the US
            this is "only" a "should be", even though more or less all "advanced"
            companies do have this information on a "prominent place" on their
            websites (usually in the footer of each and every page of their website).
            Since you reside in the UK, I probably do not need to say, that even
            there such info has to be placed "prominently". Here´s
            http://www.northstar-website-design.com/resources/website_regulations.html
            some reading material in this regard.

            The comment, that I probably did not research well enough puzzles me!
            The company might want me, the translator, or me, the client, and does
            not bother providing me with the most essential company details in a way
            that I can find them immediately, within 20 seconds after landing on
            their website?!
            So it takes only two clicks? Fine, actually three, but ONLY if I know
            where to look for them! And, frankly spoken, under the tag "Contact
            Support" I understand the contact details for Support, not the Company
            Details as such.

            Further, why on earth would I look the company up on ProZ? I have no
            intention to work with them! I was only curious after the first harsh
            comment from your side. So I wanted to see myself what is and what is
            not on that site.

            Mr. Prochazka, even though I firmly believe that you are only trying to
            defend the name and position of Gengo, I still think it might be a good
            idea to look at the issue from an outside perspective, and re-evaluate
            your statements.

            Best, Helga

            Am 22.03.2013 01:12, schrieb Vít Procházka:
            >
            > Gentlemen
            > (and madam).
            > I have
            > been, indeed, reading all of your contributions.
            > My intention
            > was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but the
            > goal has becoming
            > increasingly difficult due to the unfounded accusations and biased
            > cherry-picking. I will do my best, though.
            > At Helga:
            > it takes about two clicks to get to the Contact details (Contact
            > Support>Office
            > Addresses and Directions), which clearly state company headquarters
            > including
            > physical address. It takes about two clicks to access company´s BlueBoard
            > record on proz.com. As you can see, we average 4,8 there. Obviously we
            > cannot
            > be that bad. Perhaps your research skills are what is suspicious here?
            > By the
            > way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their
            > Companies
            > Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to
            > me, please?
            > At Mihail:
            > you are publicly accusing a legal entity as well as a physical person of a
            > fraud and illegal misconduct. Without any facts or evidence. Please
            > reconsider.
            > I am merely asking at this point, because I used to believe that
            > freelancers are polite
            > professionals who strive to be objective, accurate and respectful.
            > At Tomas
            > and James: I take you criticism to the heart, as there is some merit
            > to it. We
            > do, indeed, use crowd-sourcing (and it is a cost-effective solution).
            > As for
            > the pricing, due to the fact that we do have some demands on quality
            > and we do
            > indeed try to snag some professional translators, as opposed to only
            > “kids and bilingual
            > chit-chat ladies”, you are fully entitled to criticize our rates.
            > But please
            > consider this:
            > As you are
            > professionals, I am not addressing you for the Standard but for the
            > Pro level
            > (0,08 USD per word for the translator). Please consider that
            > proz.com´s Average rates reported
            > by language pair clearly state 0,11 USD per word for the EN-CZ pair,
            > Standard rate,
            > 0,08 USD per word, Minimum rate. So we are minimum, alright. The
            > company avoids
            > highly specialized texts (such as technical, legal and medical
            > translation), so
            > even the Pro level of the translation is probably somewhat easier than
            > your regular
            > work. The jobs are posted on the web interface, with email
            > notifications, and
            > in case you are interested, you simply snatch them there (or not) -
            > gone is the
            > interpersonal need to accept the job, lest the Project Manager never
            > contacts
            > you again in the future. Payment is every 15 days, which is an
            > improvement on
            > the average 30-45. The jobs are often very short and you can pick a
            > volume which
            > suits you. These facts make it an easy, flexible work without much of
            > a need
            > for commitment. Thus, they present a good opportunity to fill in your
            > idle time
            > that would otherwise go wasted while you wait for your regular, larger
            > contracts.
            > It might be
            > that every single member of this group has an unwavering massive
            > income high
            > above the reported average. If so, then I have simply made the mistake of
            > poorly choosing my territory and I stand corrected. My apologies.
            > But there
            > might be also a person or two, who (still) works for the Czech translation
            > agencies and gets paid some 0,04 USD per word for highly specialized
            > texts 45
            > days after the invoice and cannot afford to reject their PM lest they
            > get no work at all. For them, this might actually be some improvement.
            > Time will
            > tell.
            > Thank you for the ride.
            > V.P.
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@...
            > <mailto:turner.gerald%40gmail.com>>
            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:16 AM
            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Bravo. My sentiments exactly.
            >
            > Gerry
            >
            > On 21 March 2013 20:06, Tomas Mosler
            > <mailto:tomas.mosler%40centrum.cz> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
            > >
            > > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
            > > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
            > expecting
            > > to pay to the translator.
            > >
            > > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
            > > than decent.
            > >
            > > Best regards
            > > Tomas Mosler
            > >
            > > --- In mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations"
            > > <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Dear fellow translators,
            > > >
            > > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
            > > professional/translation opportunity!
            > > >
            > > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
            > managing an
            > > EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (http://www.gengo.com/) and we're
            > trying to acquire
            > > some new translators before we open the pair.
            > > >
            > > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
            > > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with
            > > minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent
            > > translator is a rare thing indeed!
            > > >
            > > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
            > > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
            > > working terms and conditions outlined here:
            > > >
            > > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
            > > >
            > > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
            > > >
            > > > Vít Procházka
            > > > Gengo Senior Translator
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > 7 Old Shoreham Road
            > Brighton
            > Sussex
            > BN1 5DQ
            > U.K.
            >
            > Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484
            >
            > To see a World in a Grain of Sand
            > And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
            > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
            > And Eternity in an hour.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sarka Rubkova
            I have to say that I have not received Mr. Procházka’s mail at all. When I looked for it I found that my spam firewall put it (probably very rightly) into
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
              I have to say that I have not received Mr. Procházka’s mail at all. When I looked for it I found that my spam firewall put it (probably very rightly) into the spam box.



              Besides, Mr. Procházka, this isn’t basically a public forum as you believe



              s.



              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Foren - Helga
              Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:25 AM
              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity





              Right, some of the information I would like to know is actually on the
              website (even though kind of hidden).
              True is also, that I believed my statement regarding the "prominent
              placement" of such information is contained in all legislations (of
              "advanced" countries) to be true. Well, as I found out, it actually is
              only for the EU (EU legislation) and some other countries. In the US
              this is "only" a "should be", even though more or less all "advanced"
              companies do have this information on a "prominent place" on their
              websites (usually in the footer of each and every page of their website).
              Since you reside in the UK, I probably do not need to say, that even
              there such info has to be placed "prominently". Here´s
              http://www.northstar-website-design.com/resources/website_regulations.html
              some reading material in this regard.

              The comment, that I probably did not research well enough puzzles me!
              The company might want me, the translator, or me, the client, and does
              not bother providing me with the most essential company details in a way
              that I can find them immediately, within 20 seconds after landing on
              their website?!
              So it takes only two clicks? Fine, actually three, but ONLY if I know
              where to look for them! And, frankly spoken, under the tag "Contact
              Support" I understand the contact details for Support, not the Company
              Details as such.

              Further, why on earth would I look the company up on ProZ? I have no
              intention to work with them! I was only curious after the first harsh
              comment from your side. So I wanted to see myself what is and what is
              not on that site.

              Mr. Prochazka, even though I firmly believe that you are only trying to
              defend the name and position of Gengo, I still think it might be a good
              idea to look at the issue from an outside perspective, and re-evaluate
              your statements.

              Best, Helga

              Am 22.03.2013 01:12, schrieb Vít Procházka:
              >
              > Gentlemen
              > (and madam).
              > I have
              > been, indeed, reading all of your contributions.
              > My intention
              > was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but the
              > goal has becoming
              > increasingly difficult due to the unfounded accusations and biased
              > cherry-picking. I will do my best, though.
              > At Helga:
              > it takes about two clicks to get to the Contact details (Contact
              > Support>Office
              > Addresses and Directions), which clearly state company headquarters
              > including
              > physical address. It takes about two clicks to access company´s BlueBoard
              > record on proz.com. As you can see, we average 4,8 there. Obviously we
              > cannot
              > be that bad. Perhaps your research skills are what is suspicious here?
              > By the
              > way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their
              > Companies
              > Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to
              > me, please?
              > At Mihail:
              > you are publicly accusing a legal entity as well as a physical person of a
              > fraud and illegal misconduct. Without any facts or evidence. Please
              > reconsider.
              > I am merely asking at this point, because I used to believe that
              > freelancers are polite
              > professionals who strive to be objective, accurate and respectful.
              > At Tomas
              > and James: I take you criticism to the heart, as there is some merit
              > to it. We
              > do, indeed, use crowd-sourcing (and it is a cost-effective solution).
              > As for
              > the pricing, due to the fact that we do have some demands on quality
              > and we do
              > indeed try to snag some professional translators, as opposed to only
              > “kids and bilingual
              > chit-chat ladies”, you are fully entitled to criticize our rates.
              > But please
              > consider this:
              > As you are
              > professionals, I am not addressing you for the Standard but for the
              > Pro level
              > (0,08 USD per word for the translator). Please consider that
              > proz.com´s Average rates reported
              > by language pair clearly state 0,11 USD per word for the EN-CZ pair,
              > Standard rate,
              > 0,08 USD per word, Minimum rate. So we are minimum, alright. The
              > company avoids
              > highly specialized texts (such as technical, legal and medical
              > translation), so
              > even the Pro level of the translation is probably somewhat easier than
              > your regular
              > work. The jobs are posted on the web interface, with email
              > notifications, and
              > in case you are interested, you simply snatch them there (or not) -
              > gone is the
              > interpersonal need to accept the job, lest the Project Manager never
              > contacts
              > you again in the future. Payment is every 15 days, which is an
              > improvement on
              > the average 30-45. The jobs are often very short and you can pick a
              > volume which
              > suits you. These facts make it an easy, flexible work without much of
              > a need
              > for commitment. Thus, they present a good opportunity to fill in your
              > idle time
              > that would otherwise go wasted while you wait for your regular, larger
              > contracts.
              > It might be
              > that every single member of this group has an unwavering massive
              > income high
              > above the reported average. If so, then I have simply made the mistake of
              > poorly choosing my territory and I stand corrected. My apologies.
              > But there
              > might be also a person or two, who (still) works for the Czech translation
              > agencies and gets paid some 0,04 USD per word for highly specialized
              > texts 45
              > days after the invoice and cannot afford to reject their PM lest they
              > get no work at all. For them, this might actually be some improvement.
              > Time will
              > tell.
              > Thank you for the ride.
              > V.P.
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@... <mailto:turner.gerald%40gmail.com>
              > <mailto:turner.gerald%40gmail.com>>
              > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:16 AM
              > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Bravo. My sentiments exactly.
              >
              > Gerry
              >
              > On 21 March 2013 20:06, Tomas Mosler
              > <mailto:tomas.mosler%40centrum.cz> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
              > >
              > > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
              > > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
              > expecting
              > > to pay to the translator.
              > >
              > > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
              > > than decent.
              > >
              > > Best regards
              > > Tomas Mosler
              > >
              > > --- In mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations"
              > > <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Dear fellow translators,
              > > >
              > > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
              > > professional/translation opportunity!
              > > >
              > > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
              > managing an
              > > EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (http://www.gengo.com/) and we're
              > trying to acquire
              > > some new translators before we open the pair.
              > > >
              > > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
              > > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with
              > > minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent
              > > translator is a rare thing indeed!
              > > >
              > > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
              > > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
              > > working terms and conditions outlined here:
              > > >
              > > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
              > > >
              > > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
              > > >
              > > > Vít Procházka
              > > > Gengo Senior Translator
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > 7 Old Shoreham Road
              > Brighton
              > Sussex
              > BN1 5DQ
              > U.K.
              >
              > Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484
              >
              > To see a World in a Grain of Sand
              > And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
              > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
              > And Eternity in an hour.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jakub Skrebsky
              In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says: Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container? A – No. The ink container must be replaced and
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                A – No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.

                Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?

                Jakub
              • Matej Klimes
                I think it s supposed to mean to throw away nicely , i.e. not into the bin, but into wherever you re supposed to put spent ink cartridges so that elves can
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                  I think it's supposed to mean "to throw away nicely", i.e. not into the
                  bin, but into wherever you're supposed to put spent ink cartridges so
                  that elves can disassemble them to primary components and make shiny
                  new things out of them..

                  Recycled does mean to be used again, but usually after being
                  disassembled and re-used as melted/repocessed, IMHO.. it certainly does
                  in this case.

                  And of course the manufacturer will tell you to throw away everything
                  and go and buy it brand new (original only)..

                  M
                  ------ Original Message ------
                  From: "Jakub Skrebsky" <jakub.skrebsky@...>
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: 23.3.2013 13:26:54
                  Subject: [Czechlist] CHAT environmental terminology going PC?
                  >In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                  >Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                  >A – No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.
                  >
                  >Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                  >Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                  >
                  >Jakub
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >------------------------------------
                  >
                  >Czechlist at Facebook:
                  >http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                  >
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                  >
                  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                  > (Yahoo! ID required)
                  >
                  >
                  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Valerie Talacko
                  I agree - it doesn t mean to be used again in the same form , it s just a reminder that there are facilities for recycling them. e.g.
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                    I agree - it doesn't mean "to be used again in the same form", it's
                    just a reminder that there are facilities for recycling them.

                    e.g.
                    http://h30248.www3.hp.com/recycle/supplies/index-cs.asp?__cc=us&__la=en

                    Valerie

                    On 23.03.2013 13:55, Matej Klimes wrote:
                    > I think it's supposed to mean "to throw away nicely", i.e. not into
                    > the
                    > bin, but into wherever you're supposed to put spent ink cartridges
                    > so
                    > that elves can disassemble them to primary components and make shiny
                    > new things out of them..
                    >
                    > Recycled does mean to be used again, but usually after being
                    > disassembled and re-used as melted/repocessed, IMHO.. it certainly
                    > does
                    > in this case.
                    >
                    > And of course the manufacturer will tell you to throw away
                    > everything
                    > and go and buy it brand new (original only)..
                    >
                    > M
                    > ------ Original Message ------
                    > From: "Jakub Skrebsky" <jakub.skrebsky@...>
                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: 23.3.2013 13:26:54
                    > Subject: [Czechlist] CHAT environmental terminology going PC?
                    > >In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                    > >Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                    > >A – No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when
                    > prompted by the system.
                    > >
                    > >Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me,
                    > "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains
                    > contradicting statements.
                    > >Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow
                    > saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                    > >
                    > >Jakub
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > >Czechlist at Facebook:
                    > >http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/ [1]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/ [2]
                    > >
                    > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join [3]
                    > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [4]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Links:
                    > ------
                    > [1] http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                    > [2] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                    > [3] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                    > [4] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > [5]
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwbjE3NmVsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTEyODYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1?act=reply&messageNum=51286
                    > [6]
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcWVhcm01BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1
                    > [7]
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/51256;_ylc=X3oDMTM1ZnVrM2lmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTEyODYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1BHRwY0lkAzUxMjU2
                    > [8]
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaWtvaWhqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1
                    > [9]
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjbjdwcmNzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzNjQwNDMzNTU-
                  • James Kirchner
                    To use again would be reuse . Recycle is what the other people said it is. It s sending the container to a facility for its components to be reclaimed.
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                      To use again would be "reuse".

                      "Recycle" is what the other people said it is. It's sending the container to a facility for its components to be reclaimed.

                      Jamie

                      On Mar 23, 2013, at 8:26 AM, Jakub Skrebsky wrote:

                      > In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                      > Q - Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                      > A - No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.
                      >
                      > Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                      > Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                      >
                      > Jakub
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      > Czechlist mailing list
                      > Czechlist@...
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                    • Petr
                      Ja bych uvazoval i o moznosti, ze se prazdna cartidge da znovu naplnit od profesionalu nebo odevzda k renovaci. Petr Adamek
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                        Ja bych uvazoval i o moznosti, ze se prazdna cartidge da znovu naplnit od profesionalu nebo odevzda k renovaci.
                        Petr Adamek

                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jakub Skrebsky <jakub.skrebsky@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                        > Q � Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                        > A � No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.
                        >
                        > Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                        > Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                        >
                        > Jakub
                        >
                      • Matej Klimes
                        Not in this case.. see the Q and the A.. I m sure it is possible, but the thing the manufacturer is trying to convey is throw away as often as possible and buy
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                          Not in this case.. see the Q and the A..

                          I'm sure it is possible, but the thing the manufacturer is trying to
                          convey is throw away as often as possible and buy new from US... and as
                          long as we are translating a manual/website as opposed to stirring up a
                          revolution, we should convey the intended meaning..
                          After all, this is standard practice, one step more user-friendly and
                          less unethical than installing a kurvi'tko/fuck-up device (see Wiki)
                          IMHO..

                          Users that are not complete morons will know you can actually have ink
                          cartridges refilled and will do their own thing... but AFAICR refilling
                          ink cartridges is a messy business and they often dry up once
                          opened/tampered with (as will the unused inks) - maybe the technology
                          changed dramatically, but I remember having to do all sorts of tricks
                          to get things going when I had an ink printer back in my pro-photo
                          days.. both colour and B&W lasers are so cheap now that an ink printer
                          only makes sense for a highly specialised and very consistent and
                          frequent use these days, IMHO..

                          ... Got a bit distracted there, but the message definitely is that (as
                          far as the text in question is concerned) the cartridges are only good
                          for throwing away once they run out of ink (and they probably run out
                          of ink sooner than they'd have to)..

                          M
                          ------ Original Message ------
                          From: "Petr" <padamek@...>
                          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: 23.3.2013 16:31:59
                          Subject: [Czechlist] Re: CHAT environmental terminology going PC?
                          > Ja bych uvazoval i o moznosti, ze se prazdna cartidge da znovu
                          >naplnit od profesionalu nebo odevzda k renovaci.
                          >Petr Adamek
                          >
                          >--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jakub Skrebsky <jakub.skrebsky@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                          >> Q � Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                          >> A � No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when
                          >prompted by the system.
                          >>
                          >> Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me,
                          >"to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains
                          >contradicting statements.
                          >> Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow
                          >saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                          >>
                          >> Jakub
                          >>
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • James Kirchner
                          I switched to refilled ink cartridges because of the expense of new ones from the manufacturer. They came from a reputable company and smelled different but
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                            I switched to refilled ink cartridges because of the expense of new ones from the manufacturer. They came from a "reputable" company and smelled different but worked fine until they ate away my printer's ink nozzles.

                            Jamie

                            On Mar 23, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                            > Users that are not complete morons will know you can actually have ink
                            > cartridges refilled and will do their own thing... but AFAICR refilling
                            > ink cartridges is a messy business and they often dry up once
                            > opened/tampered with (as will the unused inks) - maybe the technology
                            > changed dramatically, but I remember having to do all sorts of tricks
                            > to get things going when I had an ink printer back in my pro-photo
                            > days.. both colour and B&W lasers are so cheap now that an ink printer
                            > only makes sense for a highly specialised and very consistent and
                            > frequent use these days, IMHO..

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