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Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity

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  • Vít Procházka
    Gentlemen (and madam). I have been, indeed, reading all of your contributions. My intention was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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      Gentlemen
      (and madam).
      I have
      been, indeed, reading all of your contributions.
      My intention
      was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but the goal has becoming
      increasingly difficult due to the unfounded accusations and biased cherry-picking. I will do my best, though.
      At Helga:
      it takes about two clicks to get to the Contact details (Contact Support>Office
      Addresses and Directions), which clearly state company headquarters including
      physical address. It takes about two clicks to access company´s BlueBoard
      record on proz.com. As you can see, we average 4,8 there. Obviously we cannot
      be that bad. Perhaps your research skills are what is suspicious here? By the
      way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
      Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?
      At Mihail:
      you are publicly accusing a legal entity as well as a physical person of a
      fraud and illegal misconduct. Without any facts or evidence. Please reconsider.
      I am merely asking at this point, because I used to believe that freelancers are polite
      professionals who strive to be objective, accurate and respectful.
      At Tomas
      and James: I take you criticism to the heart, as there is some merit to it. We
      do, indeed, use crowd-sourcing (and it is a cost-effective solution). As for
      the pricing, due to the fact that we do have some demands on quality and we do
      indeed try to snag some professional translators, as opposed to only “kids and bilingual
      chit-chat ladies”, you are fully entitled to criticize our rates.
      But please
      consider this:
      As you are
      professionals, I am not addressing you for the Standard but for the Pro level
      (0,08 USD per word for the translator).  Please consider that proz.com´s Average rates reported
      by language pair clearly state 0,11 USD per word for the EN-CZ pair, Standard rate,
      0,08 USD per word, Minimum rate. So we are minimum, alright. The company avoids
      highly specialized texts (such as technical, legal and medical translation), so
      even the Pro level of the translation is probably somewhat easier than your regular
      work. The jobs are posted on the web interface, with email notifications, and
      in case you are interested, you simply snatch them there (or not) - gone is the
      interpersonal need to accept the job, lest the Project Manager never contacts
      you again in the future. Payment is every 15 days, which is an improvement on
      the average 30-45. The jobs are often very short and you can pick a volume which
      suits you. These facts make it an easy, flexible work without much of a need
      for commitment. Thus, they present a good opportunity to fill in your idle time
      that would otherwise go wasted while you wait for your regular, larger contracts.
      It might be
      that every single member of this group has an unwavering massive income high
      above the reported average. If so, then I have simply made the mistake of
      poorly choosing my territory and I stand corrected. My apologies.
      But there
      might be also a person or two, who (still) works for the Czech translation
      agencies and gets paid some 0,04 USD per word for highly specialized texts 45
      days after the invoice and cannot afford to reject their PM lest they get no work at all. For them, this might actually be some improvement.
      Time will
      tell.
      Thank you for the ride.
      V.P. 



      ________________________________
      From: Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@...>
      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:16 AM
      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity


       

      Bravo. My sentiments exactly.

      Gerry

      On 21 March 2013 20:06, Tomas Mosler <mailto:tomas.mosler%40centrum.cz> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
      >
      > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
      > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you expecting
      > to pay to the translator.
      >
      > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
      > than decent.
      >
      > Best regards
      > Tomas Mosler
      >
      > --- In mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations"
      > <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear fellow translators,
      > >
      > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
      > professional/translation opportunity!
      > >
      > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and managing an
      > EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (http://www.gengo.com/) and we're trying to acquire
      > some new translators before we open the pair.
      > >
      > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
      > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with
      > minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent
      > translator is a rare thing indeed!
      > >
      > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
      > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
      > working terms and conditions outlined here:
      > >
      > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
      > >
      > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
      > >
      > > Vít Procházka
      > > Gengo Senior Translator
      >
      >
      >

      --
      7 Old Shoreham Road
      Brighton
      Sussex
      BN1 5DQ
      U.K.

      Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484

      To see a World in a Grain of Sand
      And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
      Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
      And Eternity in an hour.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Valerie Talacko
      I actually don t think it t intended to be a pyramid (whether it ll last is another matter). They just don t offer much in terms of either money or quality.
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
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        I actually don't think it't intended to be a pyramid (whether it'll
        last is another matter). They just don't offer much in terms of either
        money or quality. But then neither do many smaller or more conventional
        agencies.

        The higher rate that they charge - 0.12 - seems to correspond to what
        we would consider usual agency work, however - translations where
        accuracy is required. It's interesting that their lower rate is
        something they see as being for translation of material where
        accuracy/quality "doesn't really matter" - blog posts, etc. The idea
        that accuracy or quality "doesn't really matter" is a huge one for us to
        swallow, but they see themselves as offering an improvement on machine
        translation. However, their "human" translations may sound better
        quality than machine translation, but won't necessarily be more
        accurate!

        Valerie

        On 22.03.2013 08:35, Josef Hlavac wrote:
        > Seconded.
        >
        > Look at the investment money they received from various investors...
        >
        > http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
        >
        >
        > Joe
        >
        > On 21.3.2013 23:26, "Mihail Mihaylov" wrote:
        >> :) As I said, this is not a translation-based pyramid but an
        >> investment
        >> pyramid.
        >>
        >> Mihail
        >>
        >> ----- Original Message -----
        >> From: "Martin Janda" <mjanda@...>
        >> To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
        >> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:07 AM
        >> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity
        >>
        >>
        >>> What makes you think that? Paying translators more than what the
        >>> company
        >>> owner can get from clients would ruin the owner very soonwhile the
        >>> ultimate goal of any pyramid schemeis to get its founders rich...
        >>>
        >>> @Tomas - that was a great response!
        >>>
        >>> Martin
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Dne 21.3.2013 22:55, Mihail Mihaylov napsal(a):
        >>>> It's a pyramid. They pay their translators (not in all cases
        >>>> though)
        >>>> more than they get from their customers. Such a behaviour makes
        >>>> sense
        >>>> only when you want to get more and more investments and enlarge
        >>>> the
        >>>> pyramid base.
        >>>>
        >>>> I give them 2 or 3 years at the most.
        >>>>
        >>>> Mihail
        >>>>
        >>>> ----- Original Message -----
        >>>> From: James Kirchner
        >>>> To: czechlist@... <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:04 PM
        >>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity
        >>>>
        >>>> It doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme to me. It sounds like a
        >>>> crowdsourcing scheme to get kids and what I call "bilingual
        >>>> chit-chat
        >>>> ladies" to do translation almost free. Notice that they also have
        >>>> crowdsourced evaluation.
        >>>>
        >>>> This is very much like the Duolingo model, except Duolingo does it
        >>>> by
        >>>> offering the user free language lessons and confines the
        >>>> translation
        >>>> to its sponsors and nonprofit sites like Wikipedia. It doesn't try
        >>>> to
        >>>> snag professional translators.
        >>>>
        >>>> Jamie
        >>>>
        >>>> On Mar 21, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Mihail Mihaylov wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>>> A pyramid. Translation is only a cover.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Mihail
        >>>>>
        >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
        >>>>> From: Foren - Helga
        >>>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        >>>>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
        >>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:35 PM
        >>>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Good evening,
        >>>>>
        >>>>> in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that
        >>>>> after
        >>>>> browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel
        >>>>> comfortable
        >>>>> submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able
        >>>>> to
        >>>>> find any verifiable company information on your website.
        >>>>> IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the
        >>>> laws of
        >>>>> any civilized country required to, disclose are
        >>>>> a) full postal and physical address of the company
        >>>>> b) details regarding the company registration (Companies
        >>>>> Register,
        >>>>> Registration Number)
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think
        >>>>> of
        >>>> doing
        >>>>> business with them.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Best, Helga
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
        >>>>>> Dear Mr. Prochazka,
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>> If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end
        >>>>>> customer (in
        >>>>>> case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
        >>>>>> expecting to pay to the translator.
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>> A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates
        >>>>>> are less
        >>>>>> than decent.
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>> Best regards
        >>>>>> Tomas Mosler
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        >>>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
        >>>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
        >>>>>> "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
        >>>>>>> Dear fellow translators,
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>> I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering
        >>>>>>> a
        >>>>>> professional/translation opportunity!
        >>>>>>> I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
        >>>>>> managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and
        >>>>>> we're
        >>>>>> trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
        >>>>>>> From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of
        >>>>>>> applicants
        >>>>>> accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English
        >>>>>> original
        >>>>>> with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that
        >>>>>> a
        >>>>>> decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
        >>>>>>> If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our
        >>>>>>> test.
        >>>>>> Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as
        >>>>>> well as
        >>>>>> working terms and conditions outlined here:
        >>>>>>> http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>> I look forward to our future cooperation!
        >>>>>>>
        >>>>>>> Vit Prochazka
        >>>>>>> Gengo Senior Translator
        >>>>>>
        >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>>>
        >>>>> _______________________________________________
        >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
        >>>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        >>>> _______________________________________________
        >>>> Czechlist mailing list
        >>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
        >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        >>>>
        >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> ------------------------------------
        >>>
        >>> Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
        >>
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
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        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________
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      • Matej Klimes
        Anyone worked for Unicom Prague recently (last 2 years?) Thanks M [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
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          Anyone worked for Unicom Prague recently (last 2 years?)

          Thanks

          M


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Foren - Helga
          Ano, JA. Sice jen malickosti (drive to bylo podstatne vice, ale pry se vice soustredi na FR/ANG nez na NEM). Maji novou ucetni, jinak vse pri starem. Nikdi
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
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            Ano, JA. Sice jen malickosti (drive to bylo podstatne vice, ale pry se
            vice soustredi na FR/ANG nez na NEM).
            Maji novou ucetni, jinak vse pri starem. Nikdi jsem s nimi nemela
            jakykoliv problem.
            Helga
            Am 22.03.2013 10:37, schrieb Matej Klimes:
            >
            > Anyone worked for Unicom Prague recently (last 2 years?)
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > M
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Josef Hlavac
            In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a. Have no idea about US or Japanese laws. And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
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              In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a.

              Have no idea about US or Japanese laws.

              And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the contact info, not
              two, and careful fine print reading -- if you hadn't said it was there,
              I would have given up.

              JH

              On 22.3.2013 1:12, czechlist-bounces@... wrote:
              > By the
              > way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
              > Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?


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            • James Kirchner
              I don t think US law requires the website owner to be identified, and it probably falls under the principle of caveat emptor. However, there are strict laws
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
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                I don't think US law requires the website owner to be identified, and it probably falls under the principle of caveat emptor. However, there are strict laws about spam e-mail here.

                In our translators association I often have to make members understand that when an agency's website has no real contact information, it shouldn't be trusted. You'd think it would be common sense, but apparently it's not.

                Jamie

                On Mar 22, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Josef Hlavac wrote:

                > In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a.
                >
                > Have no idea about US or Japanese laws.
                >
                > And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the contact info, not two, and careful fine print reading -- if you hadn't said it was there, I would have given up.
                >
                > JH
                >
                > On 22.3.2013 1:12, czechlist-bounces@... wrote:
                >> By the
                >> way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
                >> Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?
                >
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > Czechlist mailing list
                > Czechlist@...
                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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              • Josef Hlavac
                Well, in case of this particular website, the contact information actually is there.... including fancy Google maps of their Tokyo, Japan and San Mateo, Calif.
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
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                  Well, in case of this particular website, the contact information
                  actually is there.... including fancy Google maps of their Tokyo, Japan
                  and San Mateo, Calif. offices, phone numbers, etc. It's just not very
                  conspicious.

                  I clicked "About us", no real company info there. Clicked "Contact &
                  Support", again, no real company info there. Normally, I would have
                  given up at this point, thinking of "another website owner that probably
                  has a good reason to stay anonymous". Only after more careful looking I
                  noticed the link pointing to the office address etc.

                  By the way, it's interesting to see that you consider US spam laws
                  "strict". I might be wrong but I believe that you can actually spam as
                  much as you like in the US, you just have to provide a simple and
                  functional opt-out mechanism and perhaps real company contact details in
                  each spam message. In CZ, you first have to obtain the recipient's
                  permission before you can send them any unsolicited marketing mails. Now
                  that's what I'd call strict... (of course, actual enforcement is a
                  totally different chapter).

                  Josef

                  On 22.3.2013 16:49, James Kirchner wrote:
                  > I don't think US law requires the website owner to be identified, and it probably falls under the principle of caveat emptor. However, there are strict laws about spam e-mail here.
                  >
                  > In our translators association I often have to make members understand that when an agency's website has no real contact information, it shouldn't be trusted. You'd think it would be common sense, but apparently it's not.
                  >
                  > Jamie
                  >
                  > On Mar 22, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Josef Hlavac wrote:
                  >
                  >> In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a.
                  >>
                  >> Have no idea about US or Japanese laws.
                  >>
                  >> And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the contact info, not two, and careful fine print reading -- if you hadn't said it was there, I would have given up.
                  >>
                  >> JH
                  >>
                  >> On 22.3.2013 1:12, czechlist-bounces@... wrote:
                  >>> By the
                  >>> way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
                  >>> Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?
                  >>
                  >> _______________________________________________
                  >> Czechlist mailing list
                  >> Czechlist@...
                  >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >
                  > _______________________________________________
                  > Czechlist mailing list
                  > Czechlist@...
                  > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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                • James Kirchner
                  Yes, in fact you re right. Not all spam has to be opt-in in the US, but there has to be a clear opt-out mechanism, and there is an indicia you have to include
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
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                    Yes, in fact you're right. Not all spam has to be opt-in in the US, but there has to be a clear opt-out mechanism, and there is an indicia you have to include at the bottom of the e-mail. Nonetheless, the amount of spam I receive from inside the US is quite small, possibly because an e-mail sent to an unknown person is what in sales is called a "cold lead", and companies would rather focus on "qualified leads", which in this case would be people who have shown interest in their services and have opted in to receive e-mails. So this is apparently another thing that the market takes care of.

                    The only time US law requires that you receive the recipient's permission before sending an e-mail seems to be when you want to make contact with a potential mail-order bride from a website. There have been a lot of crimes involving such women -- very many of them perpetrated by the defective American husband against the foreign woman -- and Congress decided to make it harder to contact the woman. A lot of "bride" websites moved off shore for that reason, from what I have read.

                    Jamie

                    On Mar 22, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Josef Hlavac wrote:

                    > By the way, it's interesting to see that you consider US spam laws "strict". I might be wrong but I believe that you can actually spam as much as you like in the US, you just have to provide a simple and functional opt-out mechanism and perhaps real company contact details in each spam message. In CZ, you first have to obtain the recipient's permission before you can send them any unsolicited marketing mails. Now that's what I'd call strict... (of course, actual enforcement is a totally different chapter).

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                  • Foren - Helga
                    Right, some of the information I would like to know is actually on the website (even though kind of hidden). True is also, that I believed my statement
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
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                      Right, some of the information I would like to know is actually on the
                      website (even though kind of hidden).
                      True is also, that I believed my statement regarding the "prominent
                      placement" of such information is contained in all legislations (of
                      "advanced" countries) to be true. Well, as I found out, it actually is
                      only for the EU (EU legislation) and some other countries. In the US
                      this is "only" a "should be", even though more or less all "advanced"
                      companies do have this information on a "prominent place" on their
                      websites (usually in the footer of each and every page of their website).
                      Since you reside in the UK, I probably do not need to say, that even
                      there such info has to be placed "prominently". Here´s
                      http://www.northstar-website-design.com/resources/website_regulations.html
                      some reading material in this regard.

                      The comment, that I probably did not research well enough puzzles me!
                      The company might want me, the translator, or me, the client, and does
                      not bother providing me with the most essential company details in a way
                      that I can find them immediately, within 20 seconds after landing on
                      their website?!
                      So it takes only two clicks? Fine, actually three, but ONLY if I know
                      where to look for them! And, frankly spoken, under the tag "Contact
                      Support" I understand the contact details for Support, not the Company
                      Details as such.

                      Further, why on earth would I look the company up on ProZ? I have no
                      intention to work with them! I was only curious after the first harsh
                      comment from your side. So I wanted to see myself what is and what is
                      not on that site.

                      Mr. Prochazka, even though I firmly believe that you are only trying to
                      defend the name and position of Gengo, I still think it might be a good
                      idea to look at the issue from an outside perspective, and re-evaluate
                      your statements.

                      Best, Helga

                      Am 22.03.2013 01:12, schrieb Vít Procházka:
                      >
                      > Gentlemen
                      > (and madam).
                      > I have
                      > been, indeed, reading all of your contributions.
                      > My intention
                      > was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but the
                      > goal has becoming
                      > increasingly difficult due to the unfounded accusations and biased
                      > cherry-picking. I will do my best, though.
                      > At Helga:
                      > it takes about two clicks to get to the Contact details (Contact
                      > Support>Office
                      > Addresses and Directions), which clearly state company headquarters
                      > including
                      > physical address. It takes about two clicks to access company´s BlueBoard
                      > record on proz.com. As you can see, we average 4,8 there. Obviously we
                      > cannot
                      > be that bad. Perhaps your research skills are what is suspicious here?
                      > By the
                      > way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their
                      > Companies
                      > Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to
                      > me, please?
                      > At Mihail:
                      > you are publicly accusing a legal entity as well as a physical person of a
                      > fraud and illegal misconduct. Without any facts or evidence. Please
                      > reconsider.
                      > I am merely asking at this point, because I used to believe that
                      > freelancers are polite
                      > professionals who strive to be objective, accurate and respectful.
                      > At Tomas
                      > and James: I take you criticism to the heart, as there is some merit
                      > to it. We
                      > do, indeed, use crowd-sourcing (and it is a cost-effective solution).
                      > As for
                      > the pricing, due to the fact that we do have some demands on quality
                      > and we do
                      > indeed try to snag some professional translators, as opposed to only
                      > “kids and bilingual
                      > chit-chat ladies”, you are fully entitled to criticize our rates.
                      > But please
                      > consider this:
                      > As you are
                      > professionals, I am not addressing you for the Standard but for the
                      > Pro level
                      > (0,08 USD per word for the translator). Please consider that
                      > proz.com´s Average rates reported
                      > by language pair clearly state 0,11 USD per word for the EN-CZ pair,
                      > Standard rate,
                      > 0,08 USD per word, Minimum rate. So we are minimum, alright. The
                      > company avoids
                      > highly specialized texts (such as technical, legal and medical
                      > translation), so
                      > even the Pro level of the translation is probably somewhat easier than
                      > your regular
                      > work. The jobs are posted on the web interface, with email
                      > notifications, and
                      > in case you are interested, you simply snatch them there (or not) -
                      > gone is the
                      > interpersonal need to accept the job, lest the Project Manager never
                      > contacts
                      > you again in the future. Payment is every 15 days, which is an
                      > improvement on
                      > the average 30-45. The jobs are often very short and you can pick a
                      > volume which
                      > suits you. These facts make it an easy, flexible work without much of
                      > a need
                      > for commitment. Thus, they present a good opportunity to fill in your
                      > idle time
                      > that would otherwise go wasted while you wait for your regular, larger
                      > contracts.
                      > It might be
                      > that every single member of this group has an unwavering massive
                      > income high
                      > above the reported average. If so, then I have simply made the mistake of
                      > poorly choosing my territory and I stand corrected. My apologies.
                      > But there
                      > might be also a person or two, who (still) works for the Czech translation
                      > agencies and gets paid some 0,04 USD per word for highly specialized
                      > texts 45
                      > days after the invoice and cannot afford to reject their PM lest they
                      > get no work at all. For them, this might actually be some improvement.
                      > Time will
                      > tell.
                      > Thank you for the ride.
                      > V.P.
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@...
                      > <mailto:turner.gerald%40gmail.com>>
                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:16 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Bravo. My sentiments exactly.
                      >
                      > Gerry
                      >
                      > On 21 March 2013 20:06, Tomas Mosler
                      > <mailto:tomas.mosler%40centrum.cz> wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                      > >
                      > > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                      > > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                      > expecting
                      > > to pay to the translator.
                      > >
                      > > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                      > > than decent.
                      > >
                      > > Best regards
                      > > Tomas Mosler
                      > >
                      > > --- In mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations"
                      > > <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Dear fellow translators,
                      > > >
                      > > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                      > > professional/translation opportunity!
                      > > >
                      > > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                      > managing an
                      > > EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (http://www.gengo.com/) and we're
                      > trying to acquire
                      > > some new translators before we open the pair.
                      > > >
                      > > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                      > > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with
                      > > minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent
                      > > translator is a rare thing indeed!
                      > > >
                      > > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                      > > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                      > > working terms and conditions outlined here:
                      > > >
                      > > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                      > > >
                      > > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
                      > > >
                      > > > Vít Procházka
                      > > > Gengo Senior Translator
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      > 7 Old Shoreham Road
                      > Brighton
                      > Sussex
                      > BN1 5DQ
                      > U.K.
                      >
                      > Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484
                      >
                      > To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                      > And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                      > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                      > And Eternity in an hour.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Sarka Rubkova
                      I have to say that I have not received Mr. Procházka’s mail at all. When I looked for it I found that my spam firewall put it (probably very rightly) into
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I have to say that I have not received Mr. Procházka’s mail at all. When I looked for it I found that my spam firewall put it (probably very rightly) into the spam box.



                        Besides, Mr. Procházka, this isn’t basically a public forum as you believe



                        s.



                        From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Foren - Helga
                        Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:25 AM
                        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity





                        Right, some of the information I would like to know is actually on the
                        website (even though kind of hidden).
                        True is also, that I believed my statement regarding the "prominent
                        placement" of such information is contained in all legislations (of
                        "advanced" countries) to be true. Well, as I found out, it actually is
                        only for the EU (EU legislation) and some other countries. In the US
                        this is "only" a "should be", even though more or less all "advanced"
                        companies do have this information on a "prominent place" on their
                        websites (usually in the footer of each and every page of their website).
                        Since you reside in the UK, I probably do not need to say, that even
                        there such info has to be placed "prominently". Here´s
                        http://www.northstar-website-design.com/resources/website_regulations.html
                        some reading material in this regard.

                        The comment, that I probably did not research well enough puzzles me!
                        The company might want me, the translator, or me, the client, and does
                        not bother providing me with the most essential company details in a way
                        that I can find them immediately, within 20 seconds after landing on
                        their website?!
                        So it takes only two clicks? Fine, actually three, but ONLY if I know
                        where to look for them! And, frankly spoken, under the tag "Contact
                        Support" I understand the contact details for Support, not the Company
                        Details as such.

                        Further, why on earth would I look the company up on ProZ? I have no
                        intention to work with them! I was only curious after the first harsh
                        comment from your side. So I wanted to see myself what is and what is
                        not on that site.

                        Mr. Prochazka, even though I firmly believe that you are only trying to
                        defend the name and position of Gengo, I still think it might be a good
                        idea to look at the issue from an outside perspective, and re-evaluate
                        your statements.

                        Best, Helga

                        Am 22.03.2013 01:12, schrieb Vít Procházka:
                        >
                        > Gentlemen
                        > (and madam).
                        > I have
                        > been, indeed, reading all of your contributions.
                        > My intention
                        > was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but the
                        > goal has becoming
                        > increasingly difficult due to the unfounded accusations and biased
                        > cherry-picking. I will do my best, though.
                        > At Helga:
                        > it takes about two clicks to get to the Contact details (Contact
                        > Support>Office
                        > Addresses and Directions), which clearly state company headquarters
                        > including
                        > physical address. It takes about two clicks to access company´s BlueBoard
                        > record on proz.com. As you can see, we average 4,8 there. Obviously we
                        > cannot
                        > be that bad. Perhaps your research skills are what is suspicious here?
                        > By the
                        > way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their
                        > Companies
                        > Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to
                        > me, please?
                        > At Mihail:
                        > you are publicly accusing a legal entity as well as a physical person of a
                        > fraud and illegal misconduct. Without any facts or evidence. Please
                        > reconsider.
                        > I am merely asking at this point, because I used to believe that
                        > freelancers are polite
                        > professionals who strive to be objective, accurate and respectful.
                        > At Tomas
                        > and James: I take you criticism to the heart, as there is some merit
                        > to it. We
                        > do, indeed, use crowd-sourcing (and it is a cost-effective solution).
                        > As for
                        > the pricing, due to the fact that we do have some demands on quality
                        > and we do
                        > indeed try to snag some professional translators, as opposed to only
                        > “kids and bilingual
                        > chit-chat ladies”, you are fully entitled to criticize our rates.
                        > But please
                        > consider this:
                        > As you are
                        > professionals, I am not addressing you for the Standard but for the
                        > Pro level
                        > (0,08 USD per word for the translator). Please consider that
                        > proz.com´s Average rates reported
                        > by language pair clearly state 0,11 USD per word for the EN-CZ pair,
                        > Standard rate,
                        > 0,08 USD per word, Minimum rate. So we are minimum, alright. The
                        > company avoids
                        > highly specialized texts (such as technical, legal and medical
                        > translation), so
                        > even the Pro level of the translation is probably somewhat easier than
                        > your regular
                        > work. The jobs are posted on the web interface, with email
                        > notifications, and
                        > in case you are interested, you simply snatch them there (or not) -
                        > gone is the
                        > interpersonal need to accept the job, lest the Project Manager never
                        > contacts
                        > you again in the future. Payment is every 15 days, which is an
                        > improvement on
                        > the average 30-45. The jobs are often very short and you can pick a
                        > volume which
                        > suits you. These facts make it an easy, flexible work without much of
                        > a need
                        > for commitment. Thus, they present a good opportunity to fill in your
                        > idle time
                        > that would otherwise go wasted while you wait for your regular, larger
                        > contracts.
                        > It might be
                        > that every single member of this group has an unwavering massive
                        > income high
                        > above the reported average. If so, then I have simply made the mistake of
                        > poorly choosing my territory and I stand corrected. My apologies.
                        > But there
                        > might be also a person or two, who (still) works for the Czech translation
                        > agencies and gets paid some 0,04 USD per word for highly specialized
                        > texts 45
                        > days after the invoice and cannot afford to reject their PM lest they
                        > get no work at all. For them, this might actually be some improvement.
                        > Time will
                        > tell.
                        > Thank you for the ride.
                        > V.P.
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@... <mailto:turner.gerald%40gmail.com>
                        > <mailto:turner.gerald%40gmail.com>>
                        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:16 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bravo. My sentiments exactly.
                        >
                        > Gerry
                        >
                        > On 21 March 2013 20:06, Tomas Mosler
                        > <mailto:tomas.mosler%40centrum.cz> wrote:
                        >
                        > > **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                        > >
                        > > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                        > > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                        > expecting
                        > > to pay to the translator.
                        > >
                        > > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                        > > than decent.
                        > >
                        > > Best regards
                        > > Tomas Mosler
                        > >
                        > > --- In mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations"
                        > > <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Dear fellow translators,
                        > > >
                        > > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                        > > professional/translation opportunity!
                        > > >
                        > > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                        > managing an
                        > > EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (http://www.gengo.com/) and we're
                        > trying to acquire
                        > > some new translators before we open the pair.
                        > > >
                        > > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                        > > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with
                        > > minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent
                        > > translator is a rare thing indeed!
                        > > >
                        > > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                        > > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                        > > working terms and conditions outlined here:
                        > > >
                        > > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                        > > >
                        > > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
                        > > >
                        > > > Vít Procházka
                        > > > Gengo Senior Translator
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > --
                        > 7 Old Shoreham Road
                        > Brighton
                        > Sussex
                        > BN1 5DQ
                        > U.K.
                        >
                        > Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484
                        >
                        > To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                        > And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                        > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                        > And Eternity in an hour.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jakub Skrebsky
                        In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says: Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container? A – No. The ink container must be replaced and
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                          Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                          A – No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.

                          Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                          Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?

                          Jakub
                        • Matej Klimes
                          I think it s supposed to mean to throw away nicely , i.e. not into the bin, but into wherever you re supposed to put spent ink cartridges so that elves can
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I think it's supposed to mean "to throw away nicely", i.e. not into the
                            bin, but into wherever you're supposed to put spent ink cartridges so
                            that elves can disassemble them to primary components and make shiny
                            new things out of them..

                            Recycled does mean to be used again, but usually after being
                            disassembled and re-used as melted/repocessed, IMHO.. it certainly does
                            in this case.

                            And of course the manufacturer will tell you to throw away everything
                            and go and buy it brand new (original only)..

                            M
                            ------ Original Message ------
                            From: "Jakub Skrebsky" <jakub.skrebsky@...>
                            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: 23.3.2013 13:26:54
                            Subject: [Czechlist] CHAT environmental terminology going PC?
                            >In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                            >Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                            >A – No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.
                            >
                            >Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                            >Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                            >
                            >Jakub
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >------------------------------------
                            >
                            >Czechlist at Facebook:
                            >http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                            >
                            >
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                            >
                            >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                            > (Yahoo! ID required)
                            >
                            >
                            >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Valerie Talacko
                            I agree - it doesn t mean to be used again in the same form , it s just a reminder that there are facilities for recycling them. e.g.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I agree - it doesn't mean "to be used again in the same form", it's
                              just a reminder that there are facilities for recycling them.

                              e.g.
                              http://h30248.www3.hp.com/recycle/supplies/index-cs.asp?__cc=us&__la=en

                              Valerie

                              On 23.03.2013 13:55, Matej Klimes wrote:
                              > I think it's supposed to mean "to throw away nicely", i.e. not into
                              > the
                              > bin, but into wherever you're supposed to put spent ink cartridges
                              > so
                              > that elves can disassemble them to primary components and make shiny
                              > new things out of them..
                              >
                              > Recycled does mean to be used again, but usually after being
                              > disassembled and re-used as melted/repocessed, IMHO.. it certainly
                              > does
                              > in this case.
                              >
                              > And of course the manufacturer will tell you to throw away
                              > everything
                              > and go and buy it brand new (original only)..
                              >
                              > M
                              > ------ Original Message ------
                              > From: "Jakub Skrebsky" <jakub.skrebsky@...>
                              > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: 23.3.2013 13:26:54
                              > Subject: [Czechlist] CHAT environmental terminology going PC?
                              > >In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                              > >Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                              > >A – No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when
                              > prompted by the system.
                              > >
                              > >Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me,
                              > "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains
                              > contradicting statements.
                              > >Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow
                              > saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                              > >
                              > >Jakub
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > >Czechlist at Facebook:
                              > >http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/ [1]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/ [2]
                              > >
                              > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join [3]
                              > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [4]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Links:
                              > ------
                              > [1] http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                              > [2] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                              > [3] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                              > [4] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > [5]
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwbjE3NmVsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTEyODYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1?act=reply&messageNum=51286
                              > [6]
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcWVhcm01BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1
                              > [7]
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/51256;_ylc=X3oDMTM1ZnVrM2lmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTEyODYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1BHRwY0lkAzUxMjU2
                              > [8]
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaWtvaWhqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1
                              > [9]
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjbjdwcmNzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzNjQwNDMzNTU-
                            • James Kirchner
                              To use again would be reuse . Recycle is what the other people said it is. It s sending the container to a facility for its components to be reclaimed.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                To use again would be "reuse".

                                "Recycle" is what the other people said it is. It's sending the container to a facility for its components to be reclaimed.

                                Jamie

                                On Mar 23, 2013, at 8:26 AM, Jakub Skrebsky wrote:

                                > In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                                > Q - Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                                > A - No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.
                                >
                                > Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                                > Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                                >
                                > Jakub
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > _______________________________________________
                                > Czechlist mailing list
                                > Czechlist@...
                                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                                _______________________________________________
                                Czechlist mailing list
                                Czechlist@...
                                http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              • Petr
                                Ja bych uvazoval i o moznosti, ze se prazdna cartidge da znovu naplnit od profesionalu nebo odevzda k renovaci. Petr Adamek
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ja bych uvazoval i o moznosti, ze se prazdna cartidge da znovu naplnit od profesionalu nebo odevzda k renovaci.
                                  Petr Adamek

                                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jakub Skrebsky <jakub.skrebsky@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                                  > Q � Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                                  > A � No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.
                                  >
                                  > Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                                  > Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                                  >
                                  > Jakub
                                  >
                                • Matej Klimes
                                  Not in this case.. see the Q and the A.. I m sure it is possible, but the thing the manufacturer is trying to convey is throw away as often as possible and buy
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Not in this case.. see the Q and the A..

                                    I'm sure it is possible, but the thing the manufacturer is trying to
                                    convey is throw away as often as possible and buy new from US... and as
                                    long as we are translating a manual/website as opposed to stirring up a
                                    revolution, we should convey the intended meaning..
                                    After all, this is standard practice, one step more user-friendly and
                                    less unethical than installing a kurvi'tko/fuck-up device (see Wiki)
                                    IMHO..

                                    Users that are not complete morons will know you can actually have ink
                                    cartridges refilled and will do their own thing... but AFAICR refilling
                                    ink cartridges is a messy business and they often dry up once
                                    opened/tampered with (as will the unused inks) - maybe the technology
                                    changed dramatically, but I remember having to do all sorts of tricks
                                    to get things going when I had an ink printer back in my pro-photo
                                    days.. both colour and B&W lasers are so cheap now that an ink printer
                                    only makes sense for a highly specialised and very consistent and
                                    frequent use these days, IMHO..

                                    ... Got a bit distracted there, but the message definitely is that (as
                                    far as the text in question is concerned) the cartridges are only good
                                    for throwing away once they run out of ink (and they probably run out
                                    of ink sooner than they'd have to)..

                                    M
                                    ------ Original Message ------
                                    From: "Petr" <padamek@...>
                                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: 23.3.2013 16:31:59
                                    Subject: [Czechlist] Re: CHAT environmental terminology going PC?
                                    > Ja bych uvazoval i o moznosti, ze se prazdna cartidge da znovu
                                    >naplnit od profesionalu nebo odevzda k renovaci.
                                    >Petr Adamek
                                    >
                                    >--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jakub Skrebsky <jakub.skrebsky@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                                    >> Q � Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                                    >> A � No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when
                                    >prompted by the system.
                                    >>
                                    >> Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me,
                                    >"to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains
                                    >contradicting statements.
                                    >> Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow
                                    >saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                                    >>
                                    >> Jakub
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • James Kirchner
                                    I switched to refilled ink cartridges because of the expense of new ones from the manufacturer. They came from a reputable company and smelled different but
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
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                                      I switched to refilled ink cartridges because of the expense of new ones from the manufacturer. They came from a "reputable" company and smelled different but worked fine until they ate away my printer's ink nozzles.

                                      Jamie

                                      On Mar 23, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                                      > Users that are not complete morons will know you can actually have ink
                                      > cartridges refilled and will do their own thing... but AFAICR refilling
                                      > ink cartridges is a messy business and they often dry up once
                                      > opened/tampered with (as will the unused inks) - maybe the technology
                                      > changed dramatically, but I remember having to do all sorts of tricks
                                      > to get things going when I had an ink printer back in my pro-photo
                                      > days.. both colour and B&W lasers are so cheap now that an ink printer
                                      > only makes sense for a highly specialised and very consistent and
                                      > frequent use these days, IMHO..

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