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Re: Professional opportunity

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  • Tomas Mosler
    Dear Mr. Prochazka, If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in case of Standard translation), I wonder what best rate are you
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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      Dear Mr. Prochazka,

      If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you expecting to pay to the translator.

      A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less than decent.

      Best regards
      Tomas Mosler


      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear fellow translators,
      >
      > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a professional/translation opportunity!
      >
      > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
      >
      > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
      >
      > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test. Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as working terms and conditions outlined here:
      >
      > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
      >
      > I look forward to our future cooperation!
      >
      > Vít Procházka
      > Gengo Senior Translator
    • Foren - Helga
      Good evening, in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that after browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel comfortable
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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        Good evening,

        in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that after
        browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel comfortable
        submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able to
        find any verifiable company information on your website.
        IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the laws of
        any civilized country required to, disclose are
        a) full postal and physical address of the company
        b) details regarding the company registration (Companies Register,
        Registration Number)

        Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think of doing
        business with them.

        Best, Helga

        Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
        >
        > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
        >
        > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
        > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
        > expecting to pay to the translator.
        >
        > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
        > than decent.
        >
        > Best regards
        > Tomas Mosler
        >
        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear fellow translators,
        > >
        > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
        > professional/translation opportunity!
        > >
        > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
        > managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're
        > trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
        > >
        > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
        > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original
        > with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a
        > decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
        > >
        > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
        > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
        > working terms and conditions outlined here:
        > >
        > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
        > >
        > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
        > >
        > > Vít Procházka
        > > Gengo Senior Translator
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mihail Mihaylov
        A pyramid. Translation is only a cover. http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo Mihail ... From: Foren - Helga To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday,
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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          A pyramid. Translation is only a cover.

          http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo

          Mihail

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Foren - Helga
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:35 PM
          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity



          Good evening,

          in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that after
          browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel comfortable
          submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able to
          find any verifiable company information on your website.
          IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the laws of
          any civilized country required to, disclose are
          a) full postal and physical address of the company
          b) details regarding the company registration (Companies Register,
          Registration Number)

          Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think of doing
          business with them.

          Best, Helga

          Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
          >
          > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
          >
          > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
          > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
          > expecting to pay to the translator.
          >
          > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
          > than decent.
          >
          > Best regards
          > Tomas Mosler
          >
          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear fellow translators,
          > >
          > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
          > professional/translation opportunity!
          > >
          > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
          > managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're
          > trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
          > >
          > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
          > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original
          > with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a
          > decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
          > >
          > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
          > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
          > working terms and conditions outlined here:
          > >
          > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
          > >
          > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
          > >
          > > Vít Procházka
          > > Gengo Senior Translator
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Kirchner
          It doesn t sound like a pyramid scheme to me. It sounds like a crowdsourcing scheme to get kids and what I call bilingual chit-chat ladies to do translation
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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            It doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme to me. It sounds like a crowdsourcing scheme to get kids and what I call "bilingual chit-chat ladies" to do translation almost free. Notice that they also have crowdsourced evaluation.

            This is very much like the Duolingo model, except Duolingo does it by offering the user free language lessons and confines the translation to its sponsors and nonprofit sites like Wikipedia. It doesn't try to snag professional translators.

            Jamie

            On Mar 21, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Mihail Mihaylov wrote:

            > A pyramid. Translation is only a cover.
            >
            > http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
            >
            > Mihail
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Foren - Helga
            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:35 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
            >
            >
            >
            > Good evening,
            >
            > in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that after
            > browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel comfortable
            > submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able to
            > find any verifiable company information on your website.
            > IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the laws of
            > any civilized country required to, disclose are
            > a) full postal and physical address of the company
            > b) details regarding the company registration (Companies Register,
            > Registration Number)
            >
            > Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think of doing
            > business with them.
            >
            > Best, Helga
            >
            > Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
            >>
            >> Dear Mr. Prochazka,
            >>
            >> If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
            >> case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
            >> expecting to pay to the translator.
            >>
            >> A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
            >> than decent.
            >>
            >> Best regards
            >> Tomas Mosler
            >>
            >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
            >> "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>> Dear fellow translators,
            >>>
            >>> I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
            >> professional/translation opportunity!
            >>>
            >>> I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
            >> managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're
            >> trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
            >>>
            >>> From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
            >> accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original
            >> with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a
            >> decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
            >>>
            >>> If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
            >> Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
            >> working terms and conditions outlined here:
            >>>
            >>> http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
            >>>
            >>> I look forward to our future cooperation!
            >>>
            >>> Vit Prochazka
            >>> Gengo Senior Translator
            >>
            >>
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > _______________________________________________
            > Czechlist mailing list
            > Czechlist@...
            > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


            _______________________________________________
            Czechlist mailing list
            Czechlist@...
            http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          • Jirka Bolech
            Hi Vit, Without prejudice to or search for Gengo s rates for translators, I thought I d give it a try and take the test following the ProZ.com post. However, I
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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              Hi Vit,

              Without prejudice to or search for Gengo's rates for translators, I
              thought I'd give it a try and take the test following the ProZ.com post.
              However, I stumbled on not being able to verify the website's owner. I
              am wary of internet domains registered through an anonymization proxy.
              This is perhaps relevant if you want to avoid political persecution but
              has no place in business...

              Jirka Bolech

              _______________________________________________
              Czechlist mailing list
              Czechlist@...
              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            • Mihail Mihaylov
              It s a pyramid. They pay their translators (not in all cases though) more than they get from their customers. Such a behaviour makes sense only when you want
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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                It's a pyramid. They pay their translators (not in all cases though) more than they get from their customers. Such a behaviour makes sense only when you want to get more and more investments and enlarge the pyramid base.

                I give them 2 or 3 years at the most.

                Mihail

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: James Kirchner
                To: czechlist@...
                Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:04 PM
                Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity



                It doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme to me. It sounds like a crowdsourcing scheme to get kids and what I call "bilingual chit-chat ladies" to do translation almost free. Notice that they also have crowdsourced evaluation.

                This is very much like the Duolingo model, except Duolingo does it by offering the user free language lessons and confines the translation to its sponsors and nonprofit sites like Wikipedia. It doesn't try to snag professional translators.

                Jamie

                On Mar 21, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Mihail Mihaylov wrote:

                > A pyramid. Translation is only a cover.
                >
                > http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
                >
                > Mihail
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Foren - Helga
                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:35 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                >
                >
                >
                > Good evening,
                >
                > in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that after
                > browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel comfortable
                > submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able to
                > find any verifiable company information on your website.
                > IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the laws of
                > any civilized country required to, disclose are
                > a) full postal and physical address of the company
                > b) details regarding the company registration (Companies Register,
                > Registration Number)
                >
                > Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think of doing
                > business with them.
                >
                > Best, Helga
                >
                > Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
                >>
                >> Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                >>
                >> If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                >> case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                >> expecting to pay to the translator.
                >>
                >> A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                >> than decent.
                >>
                >> Best regards
                >> Tomas Mosler
                >>
                >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
                >> "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                >>>
                >>> Dear fellow translators,
                >>>
                >>> I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                >> professional/translation opportunity!
                >>>
                >>> I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                >> managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're
                >> trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
                >>>
                >>> From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                >> accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original
                >> with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a
                >> decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
                >>>
                >>> If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                >> Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                >> working terms and conditions outlined here:
                >>>
                >>> http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                >>>
                >>> I look forward to our future cooperation!
                >>>
                >>> Vit Prochazka
                >>> Gengo Senior Translator
                >>
                >>
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > Czechlist mailing list
                > Czechlist@...
                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist

                _______________________________________________
                Czechlist mailing list
                Czechlist@...
                http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Martin Janda
                What makes you think that? Paying translators more than what the company owner can get from clients would ruin the owner very soonwhile the ultimate goal of
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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                  What makes you think that? Paying translators more than what the company
                  owner can get from clients would ruin the owner very soonwhile the
                  ultimate goal of any pyramid schemeis to get its founders rich...

                  @Tomas - that was a great response!

                  Martin



                  Dne 21.3.2013 22:55, Mihail Mihaylov napsal(a):
                  >
                  > It's a pyramid. They pay their translators (not in all cases though)
                  > more than they get from their customers. Such a behaviour makes sense
                  > only when you want to get more and more investments and enlarge the
                  > pyramid base.
                  >
                  > I give them 2 or 3 years at the most.
                  >
                  > Mihail
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: James Kirchner
                  > To: czechlist@... <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                  > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:04 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity
                  >
                  > It doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme to me. It sounds like a
                  > crowdsourcing scheme to get kids and what I call "bilingual chit-chat
                  > ladies" to do translation almost free. Notice that they also have
                  > crowdsourced evaluation.
                  >
                  > This is very much like the Duolingo model, except Duolingo does it by
                  > offering the user free language lessons and confines the translation
                  > to its sponsors and nonprofit sites like Wikipedia. It doesn't try to
                  > snag professional translators.
                  >
                  > Jamie
                  >
                  > On Mar 21, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Mihail Mihaylov wrote:
                  >
                  > > A pyramid. Translation is only a cover.
                  > >
                  > > http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
                  > >
                  > > Mihail
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Foren - Helga
                  > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:35 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Good evening,
                  > >
                  > > in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that after
                  > > browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel comfortable
                  > > submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able to
                  > > find any verifiable company information on your website.
                  > > IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the
                  > laws of
                  > > any civilized country required to, disclose are
                  > > a) full postal and physical address of the company
                  > > b) details regarding the company registration (Companies Register,
                  > > Registration Number)
                  > >
                  > > Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think of
                  > doing
                  > > business with them.
                  > >
                  > > Best, Helga
                  > >
                  > > Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
                  > >>
                  > >> Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                  > >>
                  > >> If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                  > >> case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                  > >> expecting to pay to the translator.
                  > >>
                  > >> A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                  > >> than decent.
                  > >>
                  > >> Best regards
                  > >> Tomas Mosler
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > >> "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Dear fellow translators,
                  > >>>
                  > >>> I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                  > >> professional/translation opportunity!
                  > >>>
                  > >>> I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                  > >> managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're
                  > >> trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                  > >> accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original
                  > >> with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a
                  > >> decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
                  > >>>
                  > >>> If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                  > >> Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                  > >> working terms and conditions outlined here:
                  > >>>
                  > >>> http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                  > >>>
                  > >>> I look forward to our future cooperation!
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Vit Prochazka
                  > >>> Gengo Senior Translator
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > > _______________________________________________
                  > > Czechlist mailing list
                  > > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                  > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >
                  > _______________________________________________
                  > Czechlist mailing list
                  > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                  > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • wustpisk
                  It doesn t try to snag professional translators. Then why did the original mail commence thus: I would like to contribute some value to this group by
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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                    'It doesn't try to snag professional translators.'

                    Then why did the original mail commence thus:

                    'I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering professional/translation opportunity'

                    ??

                    I wonder if he's reading. I would like to think that none of the members here would fall for something like this.

                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > It doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme to me. It sounds like a crowdsourcing scheme to get kids and what I call "bilingual chit-chat ladies" to do translation almost free. Notice that they also have crowdsourced evaluation.
                    >
                    > This is very much like the Duolingo model, except Duolingo does it by offering the user free language lessons and confines the translation to its sponsors and nonprofit sites like Wikipedia. It doesn't try to snag professional translators.
                    >
                    > Jamie
                    >
                    > On Mar 21, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Mihail Mihaylov wrote:
                    >
                    > > A pyramid. Translation is only a cover.
                    > >
                    > > http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
                    > >
                    > > Mihail
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Foren - Helga
                    > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:35 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Good evening,
                    > >
                    > > in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that after
                    > > browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel comfortable
                    > > submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able to
                    > > find any verifiable company information on your website.
                    > > IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the laws of
                    > > any civilized country required to, disclose are
                    > > a) full postal and physical address of the company
                    > > b) details regarding the company registration (Companies Register,
                    > > Registration Number)
                    > >
                    > > Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think of doing
                    > > business with them.
                    > >
                    > > Best, Helga
                    > >
                    > > Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
                    > >>
                    > >> Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                    > >>
                    > >> If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                    > >> case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                    > >> expecting to pay to the translator.
                    > >>
                    > >> A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                    > >> than decent.
                    > >>
                    > >> Best regards
                    > >> Tomas Mosler
                    > >>
                    > >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > >> "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@> wrote:
                    > >>>
                    > >>> Dear fellow translators,
                    > >>>
                    > >>> I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                    > >> professional/translation opportunity!
                    > >>>
                    > >>> I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                    > >> managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're
                    > >> trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
                    > >>>
                    > >>> From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                    > >> accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original
                    > >> with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a
                    > >> decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
                    > >>>
                    > >>> If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                    > >> Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                    > >> working terms and conditions outlined here:
                    > >>>
                    > >>> http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                    > >>>
                    > >>> I look forward to our future cooperation!
                    > >>>
                    > >>> Vit Prochazka
                    > >>> Gengo Senior Translator
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > > _______________________________________________
                    > > Czechlist mailing list
                    > > Czechlist@...
                    > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    >
                    >
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Czechlist mailing list
                    > Czechlist@...
                    > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    >
                  • Mihail Mihaylov
                    ... pyramid. Mihail ... From: Martin Janda To: Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:07 AM Subject: Re:
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
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                      :) As I said, this is not a translation-based pyramid but an investment
                      pyramid.

                      Mihail

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Martin Janda" <mjanda@...>
                      To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:07 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity


                      > What makes you think that? Paying translators more than what the company
                      > owner can get from clients would ruin the owner very soonwhile the
                      > ultimate goal of any pyramid schemeis to get its founders rich...
                      >
                      > @Tomas - that was a great response!
                      >
                      > Martin
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Dne 21.3.2013 22:55, Mihail Mihaylov napsal(a):
                      >>
                      >> It's a pyramid. They pay their translators (not in all cases though)
                      >> more than they get from their customers. Such a behaviour makes sense
                      >> only when you want to get more and more investments and enlarge the
                      >> pyramid base.
                      >>
                      >> I give them 2 or 3 years at the most.
                      >>
                      >> Mihail
                      >>
                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                      >> From: James Kirchner
                      >> To: czechlist@... <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                      >> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:04 PM
                      >> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity
                      >>
                      >> It doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme to me. It sounds like a
                      >> crowdsourcing scheme to get kids and what I call "bilingual chit-chat
                      >> ladies" to do translation almost free. Notice that they also have
                      >> crowdsourced evaluation.
                      >>
                      >> This is very much like the Duolingo model, except Duolingo does it by
                      >> offering the user free language lessons and confines the translation
                      >> to its sponsors and nonprofit sites like Wikipedia. It doesn't try to
                      >> snag professional translators.
                      >>
                      >> Jamie
                      >>
                      >> On Mar 21, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Mihail Mihaylov wrote:
                      >>
                      >> > A pyramid. Translation is only a cover.
                      >> >
                      >> > http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
                      >> >
                      >> > Mihail
                      >> >
                      >> > ----- Original Message -----
                      >> > From: Foren - Helga
                      >> > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                      >> > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:35 PM
                      >> > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Good evening,
                      >> >
                      >> > in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that after
                      >> > browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel comfortable
                      >> > submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able to
                      >> > find any verifiable company information on your website.
                      >> > IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the
                      >> laws of
                      >> > any civilized country required to, disclose are
                      >> > a) full postal and physical address of the company
                      >> > b) details regarding the company registration (Companies Register,
                      >> > Registration Number)
                      >> >
                      >> > Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think of
                      >> doing
                      >> > business with them.
                      >> >
                      >> > Best, Helga
                      >> >
                      >> > Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
                      >> >>
                      >> >> Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                      >> >>
                      >> >> If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                      >> >> case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                      >> >> expecting to pay to the translator.
                      >> >>
                      >> >> A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                      >> >> than decent.
                      >> >>
                      >> >> Best regards
                      >> >> Tomas Mosler
                      >> >>
                      >> >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      >> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                      >> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      >> >> "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                      >> >>>
                      >> >>> Dear fellow translators,
                      >> >>>
                      >> >>> I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                      >> >> professional/translation opportunity!
                      >> >>>
                      >> >>> I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                      >> >> managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're
                      >> >> trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
                      >> >>>
                      >> >>> From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                      >> >> accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original
                      >> >> with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a
                      >> >> decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
                      >> >>>
                      >> >>> If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                      >> >> Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                      >> >> working terms and conditions outlined here:
                      >> >>>
                      >> >>> http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                      >> >>>
                      >> >>> I look forward to our future cooperation!
                      >> >>>
                      >> >>> Vit Prochazka
                      >> >>> Gengo Senior Translator
                      >> >>
                      >> >>
                      >> >
                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> >
                      >> > _______________________________________________
                      >> > Czechlist mailing list
                      >> > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                      >> > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                      >>
                      >> _______________________________________________
                      >> Czechlist mailing list
                      >> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                      >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Gerald Turner
                      Bravo. My sentiments exactly. Gerry ... -- 7 Old Shoreham Road Brighton Sussex BN1 5DQ U.K. Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484 To see a World in a Grain of Sand And a
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Bravo. My sentiments exactly.

                        Gerry

                        On 21 March 2013 20:06, Tomas Mosler <tomas.mosler@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                        >
                        > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                        > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you expecting
                        > to pay to the translator.
                        >
                        > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                        > than decent.
                        >
                        > Best regards
                        > Tomas Mosler
                        >
                        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations"
                        > <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Dear fellow translators,
                        > >
                        > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                        > professional/translation opportunity!
                        > >
                        > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and managing an
                        > EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're trying to acquire
                        > some new translators before we open the pair.
                        > >
                        > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                        > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with
                        > minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent
                        > translator is a rare thing indeed!
                        > >
                        > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                        > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                        > working terms and conditions outlined here:
                        > >
                        > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                        > >
                        > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
                        > >
                        > > Vít Procházka
                        > > Gengo Senior Translator
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        --
                        7 Old Shoreham Road
                        Brighton
                        Sussex
                        BN1 5DQ
                        U.K.

                        Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484

                        To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                        And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                        Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                        And Eternity in an hour.


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Vít Procházka
                        Gentlemen (and madam). I have been, indeed, reading all of your contributions. My intention was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 21, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Gentlemen
                          (and madam).
                          I have
                          been, indeed, reading all of your contributions.
                          My intention
                          was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but the goal has becoming
                          increasingly difficult due to the unfounded accusations and biased cherry-picking. I will do my best, though.
                          At Helga:
                          it takes about two clicks to get to the Contact details (Contact Support>Office
                          Addresses and Directions), which clearly state company headquarters including
                          physical address. It takes about two clicks to access company´s BlueBoard
                          record on proz.com. As you can see, we average 4,8 there. Obviously we cannot
                          be that bad. Perhaps your research skills are what is suspicious here? By the
                          way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
                          Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?
                          At Mihail:
                          you are publicly accusing a legal entity as well as a physical person of a
                          fraud and illegal misconduct. Without any facts or evidence. Please reconsider.
                          I am merely asking at this point, because I used to believe that freelancers are polite
                          professionals who strive to be objective, accurate and respectful.
                          At Tomas
                          and James: I take you criticism to the heart, as there is some merit to it. We
                          do, indeed, use crowd-sourcing (and it is a cost-effective solution). As for
                          the pricing, due to the fact that we do have some demands on quality and we do
                          indeed try to snag some professional translators, as opposed to only “kids and bilingual
                          chit-chat ladies”, you are fully entitled to criticize our rates.
                          But please
                          consider this:
                          As you are
                          professionals, I am not addressing you for the Standard but for the Pro level
                          (0,08 USD per word for the translator).  Please consider that proz.com´s Average rates reported
                          by language pair clearly state 0,11 USD per word for the EN-CZ pair, Standard rate,
                          0,08 USD per word, Minimum rate. So we are minimum, alright. The company avoids
                          highly specialized texts (such as technical, legal and medical translation), so
                          even the Pro level of the translation is probably somewhat easier than your regular
                          work. The jobs are posted on the web interface, with email notifications, and
                          in case you are interested, you simply snatch them there (or not) - gone is the
                          interpersonal need to accept the job, lest the Project Manager never contacts
                          you again in the future. Payment is every 15 days, which is an improvement on
                          the average 30-45. The jobs are often very short and you can pick a volume which
                          suits you. These facts make it an easy, flexible work without much of a need
                          for commitment. Thus, they present a good opportunity to fill in your idle time
                          that would otherwise go wasted while you wait for your regular, larger contracts.
                          It might be
                          that every single member of this group has an unwavering massive income high
                          above the reported average. If so, then I have simply made the mistake of
                          poorly choosing my territory and I stand corrected. My apologies.
                          But there
                          might be also a person or two, who (still) works for the Czech translation
                          agencies and gets paid some 0,04 USD per word for highly specialized texts 45
                          days after the invoice and cannot afford to reject their PM lest they get no work at all. For them, this might actually be some improvement.
                          Time will
                          tell.
                          Thank you for the ride.
                          V.P. 



                          ________________________________
                          From: Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@...>
                          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:16 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity


                           

                          Bravo. My sentiments exactly.

                          Gerry

                          On 21 March 2013 20:06, Tomas Mosler <mailto:tomas.mosler%40centrum.cz> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                          >
                          > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                          > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you expecting
                          > to pay to the translator.
                          >
                          > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                          > than decent.
                          >
                          > Best regards
                          > Tomas Mosler
                          >
                          > --- In mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations"
                          > <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Dear fellow translators,
                          > >
                          > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                          > professional/translation opportunity!
                          > >
                          > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and managing an
                          > EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (http://www.gengo.com/) and we're trying to acquire
                          > some new translators before we open the pair.
                          > >
                          > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                          > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with
                          > minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent
                          > translator is a rare thing indeed!
                          > >
                          > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                          > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                          > working terms and conditions outlined here:
                          > >
                          > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                          > >
                          > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
                          > >
                          > > Vít Procházka
                          > > Gengo Senior Translator
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          --
                          7 Old Shoreham Road
                          Brighton
                          Sussex
                          BN1 5DQ
                          U.K.

                          Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484

                          To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                          And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                          Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                          And Eternity in an hour.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Josef Hlavac
                          Seconded. Look at the investment money they received from various investors... http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo Joe ...
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Seconded.

                            Look at the investment money they received from various investors...

                            http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo


                            Joe

                            On 21.3.2013 23:26, "Mihail Mihaylov" wrote:
                            > :) As I said, this is not a translation-based pyramid but an investment
                            > pyramid.
                            >
                            > Mihail
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Martin Janda" <mjanda@...>
                            > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:07 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity
                            >
                            >
                            >> What makes you think that? Paying translators more than what the company
                            >> owner can get from clients would ruin the owner very soonwhile the
                            >> ultimate goal of any pyramid schemeis to get its founders rich...
                            >>
                            >> @Tomas - that was a great response!
                            >>
                            >> Martin
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Dne 21.3.2013 22:55, Mihail Mihaylov napsal(a):
                            >>> It's a pyramid. They pay their translators (not in all cases though)
                            >>> more than they get from their customers. Such a behaviour makes sense
                            >>> only when you want to get more and more investments and enlarge the
                            >>> pyramid base.
                            >>>
                            >>> I give them 2 or 3 years at the most.
                            >>>
                            >>> Mihail
                            >>>
                            >>> ----- Original Message -----
                            >>> From: James Kirchner
                            >>> To: czechlist@... <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                            >>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:04 PM
                            >>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity
                            >>>
                            >>> It doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme to me. It sounds like a
                            >>> crowdsourcing scheme to get kids and what I call "bilingual chit-chat
                            >>> ladies" to do translation almost free. Notice that they also have
                            >>> crowdsourced evaluation.
                            >>>
                            >>> This is very much like the Duolingo model, except Duolingo does it by
                            >>> offering the user free language lessons and confines the translation
                            >>> to its sponsors and nonprofit sites like Wikipedia. It doesn't try to
                            >>> snag professional translators.
                            >>>
                            >>> Jamie
                            >>>
                            >>> On Mar 21, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Mihail Mihaylov wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>>> A pyramid. Translation is only a cover.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Mihail
                            >>>>
                            >>>> ----- Original Message -----
                            >>>> From: Foren - Helga
                            >>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                            >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:35 PM
                            >>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Good evening,
                            >>>>
                            >>>> in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that after
                            >>>> browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel comfortable
                            >>>> submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able to
                            >>>> find any verifiable company information on your website.
                            >>>> IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the
                            >>> laws of
                            >>>> any civilized country required to, disclose are
                            >>>> a) full postal and physical address of the company
                            >>>> b) details regarding the company registration (Companies Register,
                            >>>> Registration Number)
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think of
                            >>> doing
                            >>>> business with them.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Best, Helga
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
                            >>>>> Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                            >>>>> case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                            >>>>> expecting to pay to the translator.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                            >>>>> than decent.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> Best regards
                            >>>>> Tomas Mosler
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            >>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                            >>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            >>>>> "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                            >>>>>> Dear fellow translators,
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                            >>>>> professional/translation opportunity!
                            >>>>>> I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                            >>>>> managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and we're
                            >>>>> trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
                            >>>>>> From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                            >>>>> accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original
                            >>>>> with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a
                            >>>>> decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
                            >>>>>> If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                            >>>>> Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                            >>>>> working terms and conditions outlined here:
                            >>>>>> http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> I look forward to our future cooperation!
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> Vit Prochazka
                            >>>>>> Gengo Senior Translator
                            >>>>>
                            >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>>>
                            >>>> _______________________________________________
                            >>>> Czechlist mailing list
                            >>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                            >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            >>> _______________________________________________
                            >>> Czechlist mailing list
                            >>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                            >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            >>>
                            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >> Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > _______________________________________________
                            > Czechlist mailing list
                            > Czechlist@...
                            > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                            _______________________________________________
                            Czechlist mailing list
                            Czechlist@...
                            http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          • Valerie Talacko
                            I actually don t think it t intended to be a pyramid (whether it ll last is another matter). They just don t offer much in terms of either money or quality.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I actually don't think it't intended to be a pyramid (whether it'll
                              last is another matter). They just don't offer much in terms of either
                              money or quality. But then neither do many smaller or more conventional
                              agencies.

                              The higher rate that they charge - 0.12 - seems to correspond to what
                              we would consider usual agency work, however - translations where
                              accuracy is required. It's interesting that their lower rate is
                              something they see as being for translation of material where
                              accuracy/quality "doesn't really matter" - blog posts, etc. The idea
                              that accuracy or quality "doesn't really matter" is a huge one for us to
                              swallow, but they see themselves as offering an improvement on machine
                              translation. However, their "human" translations may sound better
                              quality than machine translation, but won't necessarily be more
                              accurate!

                              Valerie

                              On 22.03.2013 08:35, Josef Hlavac wrote:
                              > Seconded.
                              >
                              > Look at the investment money they received from various investors...
                              >
                              > http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
                              >
                              >
                              > Joe
                              >
                              > On 21.3.2013 23:26, "Mihail Mihaylov" wrote:
                              >> :) As I said, this is not a translation-based pyramid but an
                              >> investment
                              >> pyramid.
                              >>
                              >> Mihail
                              >>
                              >> ----- Original Message -----
                              >> From: "Martin Janda" <mjanda@...>
                              >> To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                              >> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:07 AM
                              >> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>> What makes you think that? Paying translators more than what the
                              >>> company
                              >>> owner can get from clients would ruin the owner very soonwhile the
                              >>> ultimate goal of any pyramid schemeis to get its founders rich...
                              >>>
                              >>> @Tomas - that was a great response!
                              >>>
                              >>> Martin
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> Dne 21.3.2013 22:55, Mihail Mihaylov napsal(a):
                              >>>> It's a pyramid. They pay their translators (not in all cases
                              >>>> though)
                              >>>> more than they get from their customers. Such a behaviour makes
                              >>>> sense
                              >>>> only when you want to get more and more investments and enlarge
                              >>>> the
                              >>>> pyramid base.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> I give them 2 or 3 years at the most.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Mihail
                              >>>>
                              >>>> ----- Original Message -----
                              >>>> From: James Kirchner
                              >>>> To: czechlist@... <mailto:czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                              >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:04 PM
                              >>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Professional opportunity
                              >>>>
                              >>>> It doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme to me. It sounds like a
                              >>>> crowdsourcing scheme to get kids and what I call "bilingual
                              >>>> chit-chat
                              >>>> ladies" to do translation almost free. Notice that they also have
                              >>>> crowdsourced evaluation.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> This is very much like the Duolingo model, except Duolingo does it
                              >>>> by
                              >>>> offering the user free language lessons and confines the
                              >>>> translation
                              >>>> to its sponsors and nonprofit sites like Wikipedia. It doesn't try
                              >>>> to
                              >>>> snag professional translators.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Jamie
                              >>>>
                              >>>> On Mar 21, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Mihail Mihaylov wrote:
                              >>>>
                              >>>>> A pyramid. Translation is only a cover.
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> http://www.crunchbase.com/company/gengo
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Mihail
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
                              >>>>> From: Foren - Helga
                              >>>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              >>>>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                              >>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:35 PM
                              >>>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Good evening,
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> in addition to what Tomas already said, I would like to add that
                              >>>>> after
                              >>>>> browsing through Gengo Website I would not at all feel
                              >>>>> comfortable
                              >>>>> submitting any of my data. This especially because I was not able
                              >>>>> to
                              >>>>> find any verifiable company information on your website.
                              >>>>> IMHO the least a reputable company would, and is actually by the
                              >>>> laws of
                              >>>>> any civilized country required to, disclose are
                              >>>>> a) full postal and physical address of the company
                              >>>>> b) details regarding the company registration (Companies
                              >>>>> Register,
                              >>>>> Registration Number)
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Therefore I regard Gengo as suspicious and would not even think
                              >>>>> of
                              >>>> doing
                              >>>>> business with them.
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Best, Helga
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Am 21.03.2013 21:06, schrieb Tomas Mosler:
                              >>>>>> Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end
                              >>>>>> customer (in
                              >>>>>> case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                              >>>>>> expecting to pay to the translator.
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates
                              >>>>>> are less
                              >>>>>> than decent.
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> Best regards
                              >>>>>> Tomas Mosler
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              >>>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                              >>>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              >>>>>> "prochazka.translations" <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                              >>>>>>> Dear fellow translators,
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>> I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering
                              >>>>>>> a
                              >>>>>> professional/translation opportunity!
                              >>>>>>> I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                              >>>>>> managing an EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (www.gengo.com) and
                              >>>>>> we're
                              >>>>>> trying to acquire some new translators before we open the pair.
                              >>>>>>> From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of
                              >>>>>>> applicants
                              >>>>>> accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English
                              >>>>>> original
                              >>>>>> with minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that
                              >>>>>> a
                              >>>>>> decent translator is a rare thing indeed!
                              >>>>>>> If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our
                              >>>>>>> test.
                              >>>>>> Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as
                              >>>>>> well as
                              >>>>>> working terms and conditions outlined here:
                              >>>>>>> http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>> I look forward to our future cooperation!
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>> Vit Prochazka
                              >>>>>>> Gengo Senior Translator
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> _______________________________________________
                              >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                              >>>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                              >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>>> _______________________________________________
                              >>>> Czechlist mailing list
                              >>>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                              >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>>>
                              >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> ------------------------------------
                              >>>
                              >>> Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> ------------------------------------
                              >>
                              >> Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> _______________________________________________
                              >> Czechlist mailing list
                              >> Czechlist@...
                              >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >
                              >
                              > _______________________________________________
                              > Czechlist mailing list
                              > Czechlist@...
                              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                              _______________________________________________
                              Czechlist mailing list
                              Czechlist@...
                              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            • Matej Klimes
                              Anyone worked for Unicom Prague recently (last 2 years?) Thanks M [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Anyone worked for Unicom Prague recently (last 2 years?)

                                Thanks

                                M


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Foren - Helga
                                Ano, JA. Sice jen malickosti (drive to bylo podstatne vice, ale pry se vice soustredi na FR/ANG nez na NEM). Maji novou ucetni, jinak vse pri starem. Nikdi
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ano, JA. Sice jen malickosti (drive to bylo podstatne vice, ale pry se
                                  vice soustredi na FR/ANG nez na NEM).
                                  Maji novou ucetni, jinak vse pri starem. Nikdi jsem s nimi nemela
                                  jakykoliv problem.
                                  Helga
                                  Am 22.03.2013 10:37, schrieb Matej Klimes:
                                  >
                                  > Anyone worked for Unicom Prague recently (last 2 years?)
                                  >
                                  > Thanks
                                  >
                                  > M
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Josef Hlavac
                                  In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a. Have no idea about US or Japanese laws. And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a.

                                    Have no idea about US or Japanese laws.

                                    And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the contact info, not
                                    two, and careful fine print reading -- if you hadn't said it was there,
                                    I would have given up.

                                    JH

                                    On 22.3.2013 1:12, czechlist-bounces@... wrote:
                                    > By the
                                    > way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
                                    > Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?


                                    _______________________________________________
                                    Czechlist mailing list
                                    Czechlist@...
                                    http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                  • James Kirchner
                                    I don t think US law requires the website owner to be identified, and it probably falls under the principle of caveat emptor. However, there are strict laws
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I don't think US law requires the website owner to be identified, and it probably falls under the principle of caveat emptor. However, there are strict laws about spam e-mail here.

                                      In our translators association I often have to make members understand that when an agency's website has no real contact information, it shouldn't be trusted. You'd think it would be common sense, but apparently it's not.

                                      Jamie

                                      On Mar 22, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Josef Hlavac wrote:

                                      > In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a.
                                      >
                                      > Have no idea about US or Japanese laws.
                                      >
                                      > And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the contact info, not two, and careful fine print reading -- if you hadn't said it was there, I would have given up.
                                      >
                                      > JH
                                      >
                                      > On 22.3.2013 1:12, czechlist-bounces@... wrote:
                                      >> By the
                                      >> way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
                                      >> Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > _______________________________________________
                                      > Czechlist mailing list
                                      > Czechlist@...
                                      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                                      _______________________________________________
                                      Czechlist mailing list
                                      Czechlist@...
                                      http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                    • Josef Hlavac
                                      Well, in case of this particular website, the contact information actually is there.... including fancy Google maps of their Tokyo, Japan and San Mateo, Calif.
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Well, in case of this particular website, the contact information
                                        actually is there.... including fancy Google maps of their Tokyo, Japan
                                        and San Mateo, Calif. offices, phone numbers, etc. It's just not very
                                        conspicious.

                                        I clicked "About us", no real company info there. Clicked "Contact &
                                        Support", again, no real company info there. Normally, I would have
                                        given up at this point, thinking of "another website owner that probably
                                        has a good reason to stay anonymous". Only after more careful looking I
                                        noticed the link pointing to the office address etc.

                                        By the way, it's interesting to see that you consider US spam laws
                                        "strict". I might be wrong but I believe that you can actually spam as
                                        much as you like in the US, you just have to provide a simple and
                                        functional opt-out mechanism and perhaps real company contact details in
                                        each spam message. In CZ, you first have to obtain the recipient's
                                        permission before you can send them any unsolicited marketing mails. Now
                                        that's what I'd call strict... (of course, actual enforcement is a
                                        totally different chapter).

                                        Josef

                                        On 22.3.2013 16:49, James Kirchner wrote:
                                        > I don't think US law requires the website owner to be identified, and it probably falls under the principle of caveat emptor. However, there are strict laws about spam e-mail here.
                                        >
                                        > In our translators association I often have to make members understand that when an agency's website has no real contact information, it shouldn't be trusted. You'd think it would be common sense, but apparently it's not.
                                        >
                                        > Jamie
                                        >
                                        > On Mar 22, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Josef Hlavac wrote:
                                        >
                                        >> In the Czech Republic it is Obchodni zakonik, paragraf 13a.
                                        >>
                                        >> Have no idea about US or Japanese laws.
                                        >>
                                        >> And, by the way, it took me three clicks to find the contact info, not two, and careful fine print reading -- if you hadn't said it was there, I would have given up.
                                        >>
                                        >> JH
                                        >>
                                        >> On 22.3.2013 1:12, czechlist-bounces@... wrote:
                                        >>> By the
                                        >>> way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their Companies
                                        >>> Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to me, please?
                                        >>
                                        >> _______________________________________________
                                        >> Czechlist mailing list
                                        >> Czechlist@...
                                        >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                        >
                                        > _______________________________________________
                                        > Czechlist mailing list
                                        > Czechlist@...
                                        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                                        _______________________________________________
                                        Czechlist mailing list
                                        Czechlist@...
                                        http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                      • James Kirchner
                                        Yes, in fact you re right. Not all spam has to be opt-in in the US, but there has to be a clear opt-out mechanism, and there is an indicia you have to include
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Yes, in fact you're right. Not all spam has to be opt-in in the US, but there has to be a clear opt-out mechanism, and there is an indicia you have to include at the bottom of the e-mail. Nonetheless, the amount of spam I receive from inside the US is quite small, possibly because an e-mail sent to an unknown person is what in sales is called a "cold lead", and companies would rather focus on "qualified leads", which in this case would be people who have shown interest in their services and have opted in to receive e-mails. So this is apparently another thing that the market takes care of.

                                          The only time US law requires that you receive the recipient's permission before sending an e-mail seems to be when you want to make contact with a potential mail-order bride from a website. There have been a lot of crimes involving such women -- very many of them perpetrated by the defective American husband against the foreign woman -- and Congress decided to make it harder to contact the woman. A lot of "bride" websites moved off shore for that reason, from what I have read.

                                          Jamie

                                          On Mar 22, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Josef Hlavac wrote:

                                          > By the way, it's interesting to see that you consider US spam laws "strict". I might be wrong but I believe that you can actually spam as much as you like in the US, you just have to provide a simple and functional opt-out mechanism and perhaps real company contact details in each spam message. In CZ, you first have to obtain the recipient's permission before you can send them any unsolicited marketing mails. Now that's what I'd call strict... (of course, actual enforcement is a totally different chapter).

                                          _______________________________________________
                                          Czechlist mailing list
                                          Czechlist@...
                                          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                        • Foren - Helga
                                          Right, some of the information I would like to know is actually on the website (even though kind of hidden). True is also, that I believed my statement
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Mar 22, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Right, some of the information I would like to know is actually on the
                                            website (even though kind of hidden).
                                            True is also, that I believed my statement regarding the "prominent
                                            placement" of such information is contained in all legislations (of
                                            "advanced" countries) to be true. Well, as I found out, it actually is
                                            only for the EU (EU legislation) and some other countries. In the US
                                            this is "only" a "should be", even though more or less all "advanced"
                                            companies do have this information on a "prominent place" on their
                                            websites (usually in the footer of each and every page of their website).
                                            Since you reside in the UK, I probably do not need to say, that even
                                            there such info has to be placed "prominently". Here´s
                                            http://www.northstar-website-design.com/resources/website_regulations.html
                                            some reading material in this regard.

                                            The comment, that I probably did not research well enough puzzles me!
                                            The company might want me, the translator, or me, the client, and does
                                            not bother providing me with the most essential company details in a way
                                            that I can find them immediately, within 20 seconds after landing on
                                            their website?!
                                            So it takes only two clicks? Fine, actually three, but ONLY if I know
                                            where to look for them! And, frankly spoken, under the tag "Contact
                                            Support" I understand the contact details for Support, not the Company
                                            Details as such.

                                            Further, why on earth would I look the company up on ProZ? I have no
                                            intention to work with them! I was only curious after the first harsh
                                            comment from your side. So I wanted to see myself what is and what is
                                            not on that site.

                                            Mr. Prochazka, even though I firmly believe that you are only trying to
                                            defend the name and position of Gengo, I still think it might be a good
                                            idea to look at the issue from an outside perspective, and re-evaluate
                                            your statements.

                                            Best, Helga

                                            Am 22.03.2013 01:12, schrieb Vít Procházka:
                                            >
                                            > Gentlemen
                                            > (and madam).
                                            > I have
                                            > been, indeed, reading all of your contributions.
                                            > My intention
                                            > was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but the
                                            > goal has becoming
                                            > increasingly difficult due to the unfounded accusations and biased
                                            > cherry-picking. I will do my best, though.
                                            > At Helga:
                                            > it takes about two clicks to get to the Contact details (Contact
                                            > Support>Office
                                            > Addresses and Directions), which clearly state company headquarters
                                            > including
                                            > physical address. It takes about two clicks to access company´s BlueBoard
                                            > record on proz.com. As you can see, we average 4,8 there. Obviously we
                                            > cannot
                                            > be that bad. Perhaps your research skills are what is suspicious here?
                                            > By the
                                            > way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their
                                            > Companies
                                            > Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to
                                            > me, please?
                                            > At Mihail:
                                            > you are publicly accusing a legal entity as well as a physical person of a
                                            > fraud and illegal misconduct. Without any facts or evidence. Please
                                            > reconsider.
                                            > I am merely asking at this point, because I used to believe that
                                            > freelancers are polite
                                            > professionals who strive to be objective, accurate and respectful.
                                            > At Tomas
                                            > and James: I take you criticism to the heart, as there is some merit
                                            > to it. We
                                            > do, indeed, use crowd-sourcing (and it is a cost-effective solution).
                                            > As for
                                            > the pricing, due to the fact that we do have some demands on quality
                                            > and we do
                                            > indeed try to snag some professional translators, as opposed to only
                                            > “kids and bilingual
                                            > chit-chat ladies”, you are fully entitled to criticize our rates.
                                            > But please
                                            > consider this:
                                            > As you are
                                            > professionals, I am not addressing you for the Standard but for the
                                            > Pro level
                                            > (0,08 USD per word for the translator). Please consider that
                                            > proz.com´s Average rates reported
                                            > by language pair clearly state 0,11 USD per word for the EN-CZ pair,
                                            > Standard rate,
                                            > 0,08 USD per word, Minimum rate. So we are minimum, alright. The
                                            > company avoids
                                            > highly specialized texts (such as technical, legal and medical
                                            > translation), so
                                            > even the Pro level of the translation is probably somewhat easier than
                                            > your regular
                                            > work. The jobs are posted on the web interface, with email
                                            > notifications, and
                                            > in case you are interested, you simply snatch them there (or not) -
                                            > gone is the
                                            > interpersonal need to accept the job, lest the Project Manager never
                                            > contacts
                                            > you again in the future. Payment is every 15 days, which is an
                                            > improvement on
                                            > the average 30-45. The jobs are often very short and you can pick a
                                            > volume which
                                            > suits you. These facts make it an easy, flexible work without much of
                                            > a need
                                            > for commitment. Thus, they present a good opportunity to fill in your
                                            > idle time
                                            > that would otherwise go wasted while you wait for your regular, larger
                                            > contracts.
                                            > It might be
                                            > that every single member of this group has an unwavering massive
                                            > income high
                                            > above the reported average. If so, then I have simply made the mistake of
                                            > poorly choosing my territory and I stand corrected. My apologies.
                                            > But there
                                            > might be also a person or two, who (still) works for the Czech translation
                                            > agencies and gets paid some 0,04 USD per word for highly specialized
                                            > texts 45
                                            > days after the invoice and cannot afford to reject their PM lest they
                                            > get no work at all. For them, this might actually be some improvement.
                                            > Time will
                                            > tell.
                                            > Thank you for the ride.
                                            > V.P.
                                            >
                                            > ________________________________
                                            > From: Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@...
                                            > <mailto:turner.gerald%40gmail.com>>
                                            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:16 AM
                                            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Bravo. My sentiments exactly.
                                            >
                                            > Gerry
                                            >
                                            > On 21 March 2013 20:06, Tomas Mosler
                                            > <mailto:tomas.mosler%40centrum.cz> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > **
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                                            > >
                                            > > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                                            > > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                                            > expecting
                                            > > to pay to the translator.
                                            > >
                                            > > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                                            > > than decent.
                                            > >
                                            > > Best regards
                                            > > Tomas Mosler
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations"
                                            > > <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Dear fellow translators,
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                                            > > professional/translation opportunity!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                                            > managing an
                                            > > EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (http://www.gengo.com/) and we're
                                            > trying to acquire
                                            > > some new translators before we open the pair.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                                            > > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with
                                            > > minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent
                                            > > translator is a rare thing indeed!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                                            > > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                                            > > working terms and conditions outlined here:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Vít Procházka
                                            > > > Gengo Senior Translator
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > 7 Old Shoreham Road
                                            > Brighton
                                            > Sussex
                                            > BN1 5DQ
                                            > U.K.
                                            >
                                            > Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484
                                            >
                                            > To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                                            > And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                                            > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                                            > And Eternity in an hour.
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Sarka Rubkova
                                            I have to say that I have not received Mr. Procházka’s mail at all. When I looked for it I found that my spam firewall put it (probably very rightly) into
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I have to say that I have not received Mr. Procházka’s mail at all. When I looked for it I found that my spam firewall put it (probably very rightly) into the spam box.



                                              Besides, Mr. Procházka, this isn’t basically a public forum as you believe



                                              s.



                                              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Foren - Helga
                                              Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:25 AM
                                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity





                                              Right, some of the information I would like to know is actually on the
                                              website (even though kind of hidden).
                                              True is also, that I believed my statement regarding the "prominent
                                              placement" of such information is contained in all legislations (of
                                              "advanced" countries) to be true. Well, as I found out, it actually is
                                              only for the EU (EU legislation) and some other countries. In the US
                                              this is "only" a "should be", even though more or less all "advanced"
                                              companies do have this information on a "prominent place" on their
                                              websites (usually in the footer of each and every page of their website).
                                              Since you reside in the UK, I probably do not need to say, that even
                                              there such info has to be placed "prominently". Here´s
                                              http://www.northstar-website-design.com/resources/website_regulations.html
                                              some reading material in this regard.

                                              The comment, that I probably did not research well enough puzzles me!
                                              The company might want me, the translator, or me, the client, and does
                                              not bother providing me with the most essential company details in a way
                                              that I can find them immediately, within 20 seconds after landing on
                                              their website?!
                                              So it takes only two clicks? Fine, actually three, but ONLY if I know
                                              where to look for them! And, frankly spoken, under the tag "Contact
                                              Support" I understand the contact details for Support, not the Company
                                              Details as such.

                                              Further, why on earth would I look the company up on ProZ? I have no
                                              intention to work with them! I was only curious after the first harsh
                                              comment from your side. So I wanted to see myself what is and what is
                                              not on that site.

                                              Mr. Prochazka, even though I firmly believe that you are only trying to
                                              defend the name and position of Gengo, I still think it might be a good
                                              idea to look at the issue from an outside perspective, and re-evaluate
                                              your statements.

                                              Best, Helga

                                              Am 22.03.2013 01:12, schrieb Vít Procházka:
                                              >
                                              > Gentlemen
                                              > (and madam).
                                              > I have
                                              > been, indeed, reading all of your contributions.
                                              > My intention
                                              > was to answer them politely, accurately and non-offensively, but the
                                              > goal has becoming
                                              > increasingly difficult due to the unfounded accusations and biased
                                              > cherry-picking. I will do my best, though.
                                              > At Helga:
                                              > it takes about two clicks to get to the Contact details (Contact
                                              > Support>Office
                                              > Addresses and Directions), which clearly state company headquarters
                                              > including
                                              > physical address. It takes about two clicks to access company´s BlueBoard
                                              > record on proz.com. As you can see, we average 4,8 there. Obviously we
                                              > cannot
                                              > be that bad. Perhaps your research skills are what is suspicious here?
                                              > By the
                                              > way, can you quote a law that requires the company to publish their
                                              > Companies
                                              > Register and/or Registration Number on their promotional webpage to
                                              > me, please?
                                              > At Mihail:
                                              > you are publicly accusing a legal entity as well as a physical person of a
                                              > fraud and illegal misconduct. Without any facts or evidence. Please
                                              > reconsider.
                                              > I am merely asking at this point, because I used to believe that
                                              > freelancers are polite
                                              > professionals who strive to be objective, accurate and respectful.
                                              > At Tomas
                                              > and James: I take you criticism to the heart, as there is some merit
                                              > to it. We
                                              > do, indeed, use crowd-sourcing (and it is a cost-effective solution).
                                              > As for
                                              > the pricing, due to the fact that we do have some demands on quality
                                              > and we do
                                              > indeed try to snag some professional translators, as opposed to only
                                              > “kids and bilingual
                                              > chit-chat ladies”, you are fully entitled to criticize our rates.
                                              > But please
                                              > consider this:
                                              > As you are
                                              > professionals, I am not addressing you for the Standard but for the
                                              > Pro level
                                              > (0,08 USD per word for the translator). Please consider that
                                              > proz.com´s Average rates reported
                                              > by language pair clearly state 0,11 USD per word for the EN-CZ pair,
                                              > Standard rate,
                                              > 0,08 USD per word, Minimum rate. So we are minimum, alright. The
                                              > company avoids
                                              > highly specialized texts (such as technical, legal and medical
                                              > translation), so
                                              > even the Pro level of the translation is probably somewhat easier than
                                              > your regular
                                              > work. The jobs are posted on the web interface, with email
                                              > notifications, and
                                              > in case you are interested, you simply snatch them there (or not) -
                                              > gone is the
                                              > interpersonal need to accept the job, lest the Project Manager never
                                              > contacts
                                              > you again in the future. Payment is every 15 days, which is an
                                              > improvement on
                                              > the average 30-45. The jobs are often very short and you can pick a
                                              > volume which
                                              > suits you. These facts make it an easy, flexible work without much of
                                              > a need
                                              > for commitment. Thus, they present a good opportunity to fill in your
                                              > idle time
                                              > that would otherwise go wasted while you wait for your regular, larger
                                              > contracts.
                                              > It might be
                                              > that every single member of this group has an unwavering massive
                                              > income high
                                              > above the reported average. If so, then I have simply made the mistake of
                                              > poorly choosing my territory and I stand corrected. My apologies.
                                              > But there
                                              > might be also a person or two, who (still) works for the Czech translation
                                              > agencies and gets paid some 0,04 USD per word for highly specialized
                                              > texts 45
                                              > days after the invoice and cannot afford to reject their PM lest they
                                              > get no work at all. For them, this might actually be some improvement.
                                              > Time will
                                              > tell.
                                              > Thank you for the ride.
                                              > V.P.
                                              >
                                              > ________________________________
                                              > From: Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@... <mailto:turner.gerald%40gmail.com>
                                              > <mailto:turner.gerald%40gmail.com>>
                                              > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 12:16 AM
                                              > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Professional opportunity
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Bravo. My sentiments exactly.
                                              >
                                              > Gerry
                                              >
                                              > On 21 March 2013 20:06, Tomas Mosler
                                              > <mailto:tomas.mosler%40centrum.cz> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > **
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Dear Mr. Prochazka,
                                              > >
                                              > > If you or your company charge $0.06 per a word to the end customer (in
                                              > > case of Standard translation), I wonder what "best rate" are you
                                              > expecting
                                              > > to pay to the translator.
                                              > >
                                              > > A decent translator might indeed be a rare thing if the rates are less
                                              > > than decent.
                                              > >
                                              > > Best regards
                                              > > Tomas Mosler
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com, "prochazka.translations"
                                              > > <prochazka.translations@...> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Dear fellow translators,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I would like to contribute some value to this group by offering a
                                              > > professional/translation opportunity!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I have been recently entrusted with the task of building and
                                              > managing an
                                              > > EN-CZ language pair for Gengo (http://www.gengo.com/) and we're
                                              > trying to acquire
                                              > > some new translators before we open the pair.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > From my test-checking experience so far, only 10 % of applicants
                                              > > accurately and naturally convey the meaning of the English original with
                                              > > minimal grammatical errors. This has clearly shown me that a decent
                                              > > translator is a rare thing indeed!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > If you feel up to the challenge, we'd love for you to take our test.
                                              > > Make sure you understand the minimum quality expectations as well as
                                              > > working terms and conditions outlined here:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > http://gengo.com/translator-team/become-a-translator/
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I look forward to our future cooperation!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Vít Procházka
                                              > > > Gengo Senior Translator
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > --
                                              > 7 Old Shoreham Road
                                              > Brighton
                                              > Sussex
                                              > BN1 5DQ
                                              > U.K.
                                              >
                                              > Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484
                                              >
                                              > To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                                              > And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                                              > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                                              > And Eternity in an hour.
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Jakub Skrebsky
                                              In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says: Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container? A – No. The ink container must be replaced and
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
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                                                In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                                                Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                                                A – No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.

                                                Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                                                Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?

                                                Jakub
                                              • Matej Klimes
                                                I think it s supposed to mean to throw away nicely , i.e. not into the bin, but into wherever you re supposed to put spent ink cartridges so that elves can
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
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                                                  I think it's supposed to mean "to throw away nicely", i.e. not into the
                                                  bin, but into wherever you're supposed to put spent ink cartridges so
                                                  that elves can disassemble them to primary components and make shiny
                                                  new things out of them..

                                                  Recycled does mean to be used again, but usually after being
                                                  disassembled and re-used as melted/repocessed, IMHO.. it certainly does
                                                  in this case.

                                                  And of course the manufacturer will tell you to throw away everything
                                                  and go and buy it brand new (original only)..

                                                  M
                                                  ------ Original Message ------
                                                  From: "Jakub Skrebsky" <jakub.skrebsky@...>
                                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: 23.3.2013 13:26:54
                                                  Subject: [Czechlist] CHAT environmental terminology going PC?
                                                  >In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                                                  >Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                                                  >A – No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.
                                                  >
                                                  >Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                                                  >Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                                                  >
                                                  >Jakub
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  >Czechlist at Facebook:
                                                  >http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                  >
                                                  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                  > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Valerie Talacko
                                                  I agree - it doesn t mean to be used again in the same form , it s just a reminder that there are facilities for recycling them. e.g.
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
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                                                    I agree - it doesn't mean "to be used again in the same form", it's
                                                    just a reminder that there are facilities for recycling them.

                                                    e.g.
                                                    http://h30248.www3.hp.com/recycle/supplies/index-cs.asp?__cc=us&__la=en

                                                    Valerie

                                                    On 23.03.2013 13:55, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                    > I think it's supposed to mean "to throw away nicely", i.e. not into
                                                    > the
                                                    > bin, but into wherever you're supposed to put spent ink cartridges
                                                    > so
                                                    > that elves can disassemble them to primary components and make shiny
                                                    > new things out of them..
                                                    >
                                                    > Recycled does mean to be used again, but usually after being
                                                    > disassembled and re-used as melted/repocessed, IMHO.. it certainly
                                                    > does
                                                    > in this case.
                                                    >
                                                    > And of course the manufacturer will tell you to throw away
                                                    > everything
                                                    > and go and buy it brand new (original only)..
                                                    >
                                                    > M
                                                    > ------ Original Message ------
                                                    > From: "Jakub Skrebsky" <jakub.skrebsky@...>
                                                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Sent: 23.3.2013 13:26:54
                                                    > Subject: [Czechlist] CHAT environmental terminology going PC?
                                                    > >In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                                                    > >Q – Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                                                    > >A – No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when
                                                    > prompted by the system.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me,
                                                    > "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains
                                                    > contradicting statements.
                                                    > >Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow
                                                    > saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                                                    > >
                                                    > >Jakub
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >------------------------------------
                                                    > >
                                                    > >Czechlist at Facebook:
                                                    > >http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/ [1]
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > >
                                                    > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/ [2]
                                                    > >
                                                    > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join [3]
                                                    > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [4]
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Links:
                                                    > ------
                                                    > [1] http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                                                    > [2] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                    > [3] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                    > [4] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    > [5]
                                                    >
                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwbjE3NmVsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTEyODYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1?act=reply&messageNum=51286
                                                    > [6]
                                                    >
                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcWVhcm01BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1
                                                    > [7]
                                                    >
                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/51256;_ylc=X3oDMTM1ZnVrM2lmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTEyODYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1BHRwY0lkAzUxMjU2
                                                    > [8]
                                                    >
                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaWtvaWhqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMzY0MDQzMzU1
                                                    > [9]
                                                    >
                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjbjdwcmNzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzNjQwNDMzNTU-
                                                  • James Kirchner
                                                    To use again would be reuse . Recycle is what the other people said it is. It s sending the container to a facility for its components to be reclaimed.
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
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                                                      To use again would be "reuse".

                                                      "Recycle" is what the other people said it is. It's sending the container to a facility for its components to be reclaimed.

                                                      Jamie

                                                      On Mar 23, 2013, at 8:26 AM, Jakub Skrebsky wrote:

                                                      > In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                                                      > Q - Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                                                      > A - No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.
                                                      >
                                                      > Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                                                      > Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                                                      >
                                                      > Jakub
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------------------------------
                                                      >
                                                      > Czechlist at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188751454462/
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > _______________________________________________
                                                      > Czechlist mailing list
                                                      > Czechlist@...
                                                      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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                                                    • Petr
                                                      Ja bych uvazoval i o moznosti, ze se prazdna cartidge da znovu naplnit od profesionalu nebo odevzda k renovaci. Petr Adamek
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
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                                                        Ja bych uvazoval i o moznosti, ze se prazdna cartidge da znovu naplnit od profesionalu nebo odevzda k renovaci.
                                                        Petr Adamek

                                                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jakub Skrebsky <jakub.skrebsky@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                                                        > Q � Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                                                        > A � No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when prompted by the system.
                                                        >
                                                        > Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me, "to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains contradicting statements.
                                                        > Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                                                        >
                                                        > Jakub
                                                        >
                                                      • Matej Klimes
                                                        Not in this case.. see the Q and the A.. I m sure it is possible, but the thing the manufacturer is trying to convey is throw away as often as possible and buy
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
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                                                          Not in this case.. see the Q and the A..

                                                          I'm sure it is possible, but the thing the manufacturer is trying to
                                                          convey is throw away as often as possible and buy new from US... and as
                                                          long as we are translating a manual/website as opposed to stirring up a
                                                          revolution, we should convey the intended meaning..
                                                          After all, this is standard practice, one step more user-friendly and
                                                          less unethical than installing a kurvi'tko/fuck-up device (see Wiki)
                                                          IMHO..

                                                          Users that are not complete morons will know you can actually have ink
                                                          cartridges refilled and will do their own thing... but AFAICR refilling
                                                          ink cartridges is a messy business and they often dry up once
                                                          opened/tampered with (as will the unused inks) - maybe the technology
                                                          changed dramatically, but I remember having to do all sorts of tricks
                                                          to get things going when I had an ink printer back in my pro-photo
                                                          days.. both colour and B&W lasers are so cheap now that an ink printer
                                                          only makes sense for a highly specialised and very consistent and
                                                          frequent use these days, IMHO..

                                                          ... Got a bit distracted there, but the message definitely is that (as
                                                          far as the text in question is concerned) the cartridges are only good
                                                          for throwing away once they run out of ink (and they probably run out
                                                          of ink sooner than they'd have to)..

                                                          M
                                                          ------ Original Message ------
                                                          From: "Petr" <padamek@...>
                                                          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: 23.3.2013 16:31:59
                                                          Subject: [Czechlist] Re: CHAT environmental terminology going PC?
                                                          > Ja bych uvazoval i o moznosti, ze se prazdna cartidge da znovu
                                                          >naplnit od profesionalu nebo odevzda k renovaci.
                                                          >Petr Adamek
                                                          >
                                                          >--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jakub Skrebsky <jakub.skrebsky@...> wrote:
                                                          >>
                                                          >> In a printing device user manual, the FAQ section says:
                                                          >> Q � Can you empty and re-use the ink container?
                                                          >> A � No. The ink container must be replaced and recycled when
                                                          >prompted by the system.
                                                          >>
                                                          >> Perhaps NS understand the word "recycled" differently, but to me,
                                                          >"to be recycled" means "to be used again", so the answer contains
                                                          >contradicting statements.
                                                          >> Is it because the rules of green political correctness don't allow
                                                          >saying "to dispose of", "to throw away", "to trash" ?
                                                          >>
                                                          >> Jakub
                                                          >>
                                                          >
                                                          >


                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • James Kirchner
                                                          I switched to refilled ink cartridges because of the expense of new ones from the manufacturer. They came from a reputable company and smelled different but
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Mar 23, 2013
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                                                            I switched to refilled ink cartridges because of the expense of new ones from the manufacturer. They came from a "reputable" company and smelled different but worked fine until they ate away my printer's ink nozzles.

                                                            Jamie

                                                            On Mar 23, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                                                            > Users that are not complete morons will know you can actually have ink
                                                            > cartridges refilled and will do their own thing... but AFAICR refilling
                                                            > ink cartridges is a messy business and they often dry up once
                                                            > opened/tampered with (as will the unused inks) - maybe the technology
                                                            > changed dramatically, but I remember having to do all sorts of tricks
                                                            > to get things going when I had an ink printer back in my pro-photo
                                                            > days.. both colour and B&W lasers are so cheap now that an ink printer
                                                            > only makes sense for a highly specialised and very consistent and
                                                            > frequent use these days, IMHO..

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