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Re: [Czechlist] Re: menu terms

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  • Rachel Thompson
    ... cheesecake)and have expected a pastry (or crushed biscuit) base, only to find it has a sponge base, so perhaps a tart doesn t have to be pastry. Hi
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 29, 2001
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      > Sometimes I've ordered a dessert described as a tart, (even a
      cheesecake)and have expected a pastry (or crushed biscuit) base, only to
      find it has a sponge base, so perhaps a tart doesn't have to be pastry.

      Hi Lindsay,

      Thanks for that confirmation! At first I thought menus would be quite
      easy, but they're not -- often there's no direct equivalent for any of the
      foods. I don't know if you've sampled any of Hana's baking, but it seems
      a Czech "kolac" can be many things, none of them exactly equivalent to
      anything we have in Britain. I guess what normally happens is that the
      name is simply imported along with the food (baguette, croissant, apple
      strudel...). I think we should go along with what Czech immigrant
      populations in the US seem to have done, and use the Czech word...
      ---------------------
      Vitame Vas!
      Welcome to Verdigre!
      Kolach Capital of the World
      KOLACH DAYS, a festive celebration of Verdigre's Czech heritage, was
      actually conceived in 1939 and sponsored by the Czech Federation. It
      became an annual event in the 1950's and again in 1969 when it was
      sponsored by the Verdigre Improvement Club. Past festivities have included
      a carnival, bands and dancing, Kolach Baking Contest, Kolach Eating
      Contest, Turtle Races, Kiddie Parade, Grand Parade, flea markets, stage
      productions, basketball tournament, mud volleyball, various shows and
      demonstrations, tractor pull, Bull-o-Rama, Alumni Banquet, & crowning of
      the new Kolach Queen. It continues as an annual event held on the second
      full weekend in June.
      WHAT IS A KOLACH? Kolaches, a favorite Czech and Slovak dessert
      originating from Eastern Europe, are baked pastries of yeast dough with
      delicious fruit filling. Some fillings include prune, poppy seed, apricot,
      cherry, & cottage cheese. Kolaches are available for sale from many groups
      and individuals and at many Verdigre businesses year-round.
      --------------------------
      Rachel
    • Zdenek Bobek
      Hi all menu item researchers, I agree with Rachel, ... I think it is often better to use the original names of many dishes of types of food. It is much better
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 29, 2001
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        Hi all menu item researchers,

        I agree with Rachel,

        > .... I guess what normally happens is that the
        > name is simply imported along with the food (baguette, croissant, apple
        > strudel...). I think we should go along with what Czech immigrant
        > populations in the US seem to have done, and use the Czech word...

        I think it is often better to use the original names of many dishes of types
        of food. It is much better to leave the local or national (ethnic) name as
        it is and add a brief description and ingredients. The name may make the
        food more special for a foreigner. (Look: "Hey Joe! Back from Europe? What
        did you eat there?" Oh, Frank, you would not believe me, we had a lot of
        beer with ew-toe-pent-see!" ) However the description should be as exact as
        possible. Some food may cause a shock :-)

        BTW if our ancestors translated all the names of food in the past, we would
        eat "nudle s kruhovym prurezem" instead of "spagety" or "peceny slany kolac
        s rajcaty na italsko-americky zpusob" instead of "pizza". (What about
        arabian musaka, indian chapati, chinese Kung-pao, polish golabki, are we
        going to translate all these? Certainly not.). Would you translate "Cerny
        kuba"?
        BTW I don�t like the Asijske bistro chain in Brno uses totally translated
        menus. They say "zapekane nudle" instead of original Mi-sao and ku�e na
        sladko-kyselo instead of Chua-Ngot. Both dishes are new in this country, so
        why not to bring the original names with them? America imported kolach with
        its name very easily.

        Bye

        Bob (hungry as hell)
      • zehrovak@dr.com
        ... hit may ... that s a big ... but that ... soon. I ... or not. ... Speech technology is the next big thing in computing. Will it put a PC in every home?
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 29, 2001
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          --- In Czechlist@y..., JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
          >
          > In a message dated 1/29/01 7:44:55 AM, pacholik@c... writes:
          >
          > >Je to pristi hit.
          >
          > "The next big thing" has a somewhat sarcastic connotation, which
          "hit" may
          > not have. When I read that English phrase, I think of something
          that's a big
          > fad in business, that some people quickly make a lot of money on,
          but that
          > goes away very soon, or else at least its profit potential goes away
          soon. I
          > don't know if other native English speakers get this feeling from it
          or not.
          >
          > Jamie

          Speech technology is the next big thing in computing. Will it put a PC
          in every home? .

          The next big thing in heart disease? It's called vulnerable plaque

          Defined contributions: the next big thing in health care - ...


          It is often tongue-in-cheek but there again sometimes it is just used
          for expressive or declamatory effect (as in the headlines above) and
          sometimes it is just genuine lowbrow commercialese IMHO.

          Melvyn
        • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
          ... This is how it s dealt with in English-speaking countries, however Czech clients are apt to get a bit perturbed if one doesn t translate EVERYTHING. I once
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 29, 2001
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            In a message dated 1/29/01 4:26:20 PM, zdenek.bobek@... writes:

            >I think it is often better to use the original names of many dishes of types
            >of food. It is much better to leave the local or national (ethnic) name as
            >it is and add a brief description and ingredients. The name may make the
            >food more special for a foreigner. (Look: "Hey Joe! Back from Europe? What
            >did you eat there?" Oh, Frank, you would not believe me, we had a lot of
            >beer with ew-toe-pent-see!" ) However the description should be as exact
            >as possible. Some food may cause a shock :-)

            This is how it's dealt with in English-speaking countries, however Czech
            clients are apt to get a bit perturbed if one doesn't translate EVERYTHING.
            I once told a Czech in the CR who was translating a menu to leave the word
            svickova as it was (although for Americans it might have been more proper to
            translate it to sauerbraten), but he insisted the client would think he had
            gone insane if he didn't translate it into SOMETHING English. There was even
            a menu there once that offered "candle meat".

            I once spent half a day asking people everything about rakvicky, how they are
            made, what they are made of, etc., and could never come up with an English
            term that wasn't either morbid or misleading, so that is another word that
            has to be left untouched and then explained.

            But I sure used to wish some Czech would explain the English on some of the
            menus. I often saw "chicken steak" offered in the CR, and in one well-known
            place in Prague "goulash two cats" and "fried dope". (The waiter told me
            goulash two cats is made of dog meat.)

            >BTW if our ancestors translated all the names of food in the past, we would
            >eat "nudle s kruhovym prurezem" instead of "spagety"

            And if the Germans had translated spaghetti into their own language, then the
            Czechs might have gotten the word from the Italians and be calling it
            "spageti" instead of "s^pageti". (And if only they'd learn about spaghetti
            sauce and stop eating it with ketchup!)

            And if the Russians had used a Russian word for "hooligan", the Czechs might
            be saying "huligan" instead of "chuligan".

            >or "peceny slany kolac
            >s rajcaty na italsko-americky zpusob" instead of "pizza". (What about
            >arabian musaka,

            I thought mousaka was Greek. Or at least the word mousaka.

            >indian chapati, chinese Kung-pao,

            I know that in one restaurant in the CR, chow mein consists of about half a
            pound of beef strips with one noodle.

            >polish golabki, are we
            >going to translate all these? Certainly not.). Would you translate "Cerny
            >kuba"?
            >BTW I don’t like the Asijske bistro chain in Brno uses totally translated
            >menus. They say "zapekane nudle" instead of original Mi-sao and kuøe na
            >sladko-kyselo instead of Chua-Ngot.

            Which in English is called sweet-and-sour chicken.

            >Both dishes are new in this country, so
            >why not to bring the original names with them? America imported kolach
            >with its name very easily.

            Which kolac? Do you mean paczke or what?

            Jamie
          • zehrovak@dr.com
            ... FWIW it is called Domazlice Cake in the Czech National Cookbook by Hana Gajdostikova. Our next translators self-help workshop is this evening 5.30 pm at
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 30, 2001
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              --- In Czechlist@y..., "Rachel Thompson" <rachel.thompson@s...> wrote:

              >
              > One last question -- do you know what a "domazlicky kolac" is?
              >
              > Rachel

              FWIW it is called 'Domazlice Cake' in the Czech National Cookbook by
              Hana Gajdostikova.

              Our next translators' self-help workshop is this evening 5.30 pm at
              Pivnice u Sportovce Pivrnce, Soukenicka 4 near Kotva. I will bring
              along Hana's latest batch of plum cake slices.

              M.
            • Michael Grant
              ... You mean you don t have kolaches (pr. kola tchies) up in Michigan? Michael -- BLUE DANUBE international communication services The Central and East
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 30, 2001
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                >Which kolac? Do you mean paczke or what?

                You mean you don't have "kolaches" (pr. kola'tchies) up in Michigan?
                Michael

                --
                BLUE DANUBE international communication services
                The Central and East European Language Source!
                <http://www.bdanube.com>, <mailto:bdanube@...>
                Tel. (+1-512) 336-8911, Fax (+1-512) 336-8954
              • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                ... No Czechs, no kolaches. We have paczke (koblihy) and pierogi and everything with a Polish name that you can imagine, but I don t know what kolaches are in
                Message 7 of 22 , Jan 30, 2001
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                  In a message dated 1/30/01 10:33:23 AM, mgrant@... writes:

                  >You mean you don't have "kolaches" (pr. kola'tchies) up in Michigan?

                  No Czechs, no kolaches. We have paczke (koblihy) and pierogi and everything
                  with a Polish name that you can imagine, but I don't know what kolaches are
                  in an American context. And those people here who know vanocka say it's
                  "Jewish".

                  JK
                • Zdenek Bobek
                  ... everything ... are ... Isn’t it amazing to see how is the language influenced by the percentage of immigrants in certain areas? Bob
                  Message 8 of 22 , Feb 1, 2001
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                    > >You mean you don't have "kolaches" (pr. kola'tchies) up in Michigan?
                    >
                    > No Czechs, no kolaches. We have paczke (koblihy) and pierogi and
                    everything
                    > with a Polish name that you can imagine, but I don't know what kolaches
                    are
                    > in an American context. And those people here who know vanocka say it's
                    > "Jewish".

                    Isn�t it amazing to see how is the language influenced by the percentage of
                    immigrants in certain areas?

                    Bob
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