Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Neodolatelna nabidka

Expand Messages
  • Tomas Mosler
    Prekladatele ustoupit maji kam, o tom uz psal Martin, pouze (nekteri) mozna nemaji odvahu - a nakonec nekteri jsou mozna i spokojeni a radeji nez sobe daji
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 3, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Prekladatele "ustoupit" maji kam, o tom uz psal Martin, pouze (nekteri) mozna nemaji odvahu - a nakonec nekteri jsou mozna i spokojeni a radeji nez sobe daji vic vydelat agenture. (Nic proti altruismu, ale myslim, ze zrovna v teto oblasti to neni uplne idealni pristup.)

      Myslim, ze cena prace (zamerne nepisu plat, protoze prekladatelu s platem je podle me malo) prekladatele-zivnostnika se neda nacpat do nejakych tabulek a prumeru, ale odviji se (i) od toho, jakou odmenu povazuje kazdy jednotlive v ramci volneho trhu za svou praci za adekvatni.

      Jinak co se tyka nakladu, Vase myslenka "kontextu nakladu" nefunguje ani v jinych oborech. Pokud dokazete nakupovat ceske potraviny za tretinovou cenu oproti zapadnim pri srovnatelne kvalite, prosim napiste mi, kde to je. Ja spis znam ceske potraviny za mozna nizsi cenu, ale take v nizsi kvalite.

      Podobne je to i u dovazenych polozek. (Nakonec i software atd. pro prekladatele se - tusim s vyjimkou Wordfastu a castecne Tradosu, kdy to ale rozhodne neni 1/3 zapadnich cen - neprodava za "ceske" ceny; ostatne jak to, ze clenstvi v nekterych zahranicnich asociacich stoji podobne penize jako treba v JTP [a pritom je to trochu jiny servis].)

      A plati to take u zbozi, ktere se vyrabi u nas, ale je dostupne i jinde. Napriklad cena eletriny, ktera je na evropske urovni. Nebo (toto uz jsem psal na Prekladech): Jak to, ze se Peugeoty vyrobene v Koline neprodavaji v CR za tretinovou cenu oproti cene (tychz levne vyrobenych vozu z Kolina) ve Francii? A takovych prikladu by bylo vice, nejde zdaleka jen o "zbytny" automobil.

      Jestlize tedy zdaleka neplati "na ceskem trhu ceske ceny", proc by potom prekladatele meli byt nejaci otloukankove, "protoze nejaky prumer"? Jini podnikatele se tim take neridi a chteji prodavat zbozi a sluzby hypotetickemu prekladateli s 1/3 prijmem za cenu stejnou jako jinde.

      Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, nerikam, ze vsechno vsude stoji stejne, na Zapade jsou IMHO drazsi hlavne sluzby a pojisteni, ale spis chci rict, ze se tam (jen priklad) 3x vic vydelava, i kdyz ne vse stoji 3x vic. Proc by tedy i prekladatel v CR nemohl vydelavat napr. 3x vic, i kdyz ne vse v CR stoji 3x vic ( = stejne jako "na Zapade")?

      Jeste pro srovnani porovani prijmu v parite kupni sily (tedy co si lze koupit):
      http://www.finance.cz/zpravy/finance/369199-kde-se-zije-za-prumernou-mzdu-nejlepe-/

      Nebo toto:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
      (Tipuji, ze prumerny prekladatel v Nemecku vydela vice nez 33 % (80/107) navic oproti prumernemu prekladateli v Cesku.)

      Tomas Mosler


      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Petr" <padamek@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba posuzovat v kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR, vydelku srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to totez jako u lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k zapadnim sousedum (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky roman ...).
      > Petr Adamek
    • Tomas Mosler
      Just a little follow-up on how the living costs in the West are assumably dramatically higher than in the Czech Republic, thus the employees/freelancers
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 15, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Just a little follow-up on how the living costs in the "West" are assumably dramatically higher than in the Czech Republic, thus the employees/freelancers there need to earn more than people in the Czech Repbulic (or in other words, Czechs can live/survive a bit easier with lower nominal income).

        "I tak ale muze prumerne vydelavajici Nemec vest vcelku slusny zivot. Ze srovnani cen potravin a spotrebniho zbozi mezi Nemeckem a Ceskem vyplyva, ze jsou priblizne stejne. Nektere druhy potravin, odevy, obuv ci elektronika jsou ve Spolkove republice dokonce levnejsi, a to az o jednu ctvrtinu.

        Totez plati pro bydleni. Najem jednoho metru ctverecniho obytne plochy bytu ve starsim dome po rekonstrukci warm (po zapocitani nakladu na vytapeni) cini osm az deset eur. Za byt o plose padesati metru ctverecnich tak Nemci v prumeru zaplati 450 eur, a tedy priblizne jednu ctvrtinu sve ciste mesicni mzdy."

        http://aktualne.centrum.cz/zahranici/evropa/clanek.phtml?id=760140

        Tomas


        > In a message dated 11/2/2012 2:53:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        > hgeige@... writes:
        >
        >
        > What was relevant to me was that while I could "sort of" support myself
        > working for Czech agencies in CR, I could not support myself working for
        > Czech
        > agencies from the U.S., due to different buying power.
        >
        > Of course a translations totaling CZK 15 000 will pay my rent (I assume)
        > in Prague, but this amount will not pay my rent in New York. That is all I
        > meant, and sorry if I haven't expressed myself clearly.
        >
        > What he/she refuses or not was not the issue I was putting forward.
        > Thanks, Tomas
        >
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 11/2/2012 2:44:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        > _tomas.mosler@..._ (mailto:tomas.mosler@...) writes:
        >
        > > I maintain that a Czech translator living abroad will not survive while
        > > working exclusively for Czech agencies, while a Czech translator living
        > in CR
        > > and working exclusively for Czech agencies could, I mean, not very well,
        > but
        > > pays his rent, or not?
        >
        > Perhaps, but how relevant is that? I mean, when such a Czech translator
        > gets paid xxxxx CZK a month and thinks, fine, this pays my rent, is he
        > bound
        > to politely refuse any better rates because he could - what horror - earn
        > some money extra? ;) (Or alternatively getting the same month income, but
        > having more free time.)
        >
        > Besides that, with the same logic Czech (or Eastern Europe) producers
        > should sell their products in Czech stores for 1/4 - 1/2 price (because it
        > should be sufficient to cover local rents) compared to Western prices of
        > the
        > same product distributed over there, but somehow that is often not
        > happenning.
        >
        > I mean, if Polish KitKat Chunky can cost 12 CZK / EUR 0.50 and Western
        > produced ( = better quality) KK Chunky costs EUR 0.60, or if I can buy a
        > bun
        > (roll) in Germany for approx. EUR 0.10 and here for the same price,
        > something is wrong with the "pay rent scheme".
        >
        > Tomas
      • Jakub Skrebsky
        jen pro srovnani - zivotni naklady v Severnim Irsku jídlo: tezko se srovnava, ale mozna pomuze tato tabulka (nekolik let stara, ale vicemene se nic nezmenilo)
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 15, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          jen pro srovnani - zivotni naklady v Severnim Irsku
          jídlo: tezko se srovnava, ale mozna pomuze tato tabulka (nekolik let stara, ale vicemene se nic nezmenilo) http://www.bedekr.cz/vybirate-dovolenou-nabizime-vam-prehled-cen-jidla-v-ruznych-zemich.
          Obleceni - mirne levnejsi nez v CR (krome modnich znacek).
          bydleni: 50m2 byt v klidne ctvrti maleho mesta - najem 500 GBP mesicne, na venkove 400 GBP, ve vetsich mestech od 600 GBP. Cena energii priblizne stejna jako v CR, ale Britove moc nepouzivaji tepelnou izolaci. Můj ucet za plynove topeni je asi 1300 GBP rocne.
          Telefon+internet od 30 GBP mesicne
          Mobil od 20 GBP mesicne
          Pohonne hmoty: aktualne 1.45 - 1.48 GBP za litr v Severnim Irsku. Anglie je mirne levnejsi.
          Povinne ruceni na auto: cerstvy ridic nejmene 3000 GBP rocne, babicka s vozem Honda Jazz kolem 500 GBP rocne. Ja platim 800 rocne.
          Skolka pro jedno dite: min. 30 GBP denne, pouze lidi s prijmem pod zivotnim minimem maji slevu.
          Skolne na zakladnich a strednich skolach se neplati, na vysoke od 2500 GBP rocne.
          Minimalni mzda (pokladni, delnik, uklizecka, atd) je 6,19 na hodinu, asi 5 GBP cisteho.
          Povinne vydaje zivnostnika : dan 20% ze zisku, nezdanitelne minimum asi 7000 GBP, nakladovy pausal neexistuje. Zdrav/socialni odvody asi 600 + 8% ze zisku, celkem tedy kolem 29%ze zisku do kasy Jejiho Velicenstva.

          Jakub




          On 15 Nov 2012, at 12:50, Tomas Mosler wrote:

          > Just a little follow-up on how the living costs in the "West" are assumably dramatically higher than in the Czech Republic, thus the employees/freelancers there need to earn more than people in the Czech Repbulic (or in other words, Czechs can live/survive a bit easier with lower nominal income).
          >
          > "I tak ale muze prumerne vydelavajici Nemec vest vcelku slusny zivot. Ze srovnani cen potravin a spotrebniho zbozi mezi Nemeckem a Ceskem vyplyva, ze jsou priblizne stejne. Nektere druhy potravin, odevy, obuv ci elektronika jsou ve Spolkove republice dokonce levnejsi, a to az o jednu ctvrtinu.
          >
          > Totez plati pro bydleni. Najem jednoho metru ctverecniho obytne plochy bytu ve starsim dome po rekonstrukci warm (po zapocitani nakladu na vytapeni) cini osm az deset eur. Za byt o plose padesati metru ctverecnich tak Nemci v prumeru zaplati 450 eur, a tedy priblizne jednu ctvrtinu sve ciste mesicni mzdy."
          >
          > http://aktualne.centrum.cz/zahranici/evropa/clanek.phtml?id=760140
          >
          > Tomas
          >
          > > In a message dated 11/2/2012 2:53:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          > > hgeige@... writes:
          > >
          > >
          > > What was relevant to me was that while I could "sort of" support myself
          > > working for Czech agencies in CR, I could not support myself working for
          > > Czech
          > > agencies from the U.S., due to different buying power.
          > >
          > > Of course a translations totaling CZK 15 000 will pay my rent (I assume)
          > > in Prague, but this amount will not pay my rent in New York. That is all I
          > > meant, and sorry if I haven't expressed myself clearly.
          > >
          > > What he/she refuses or not was not the issue I was putting forward.
          > > Thanks, Tomas
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > In a message dated 11/2/2012 2:44:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          > > _tomas.mosler@..._ (mailto:tomas.mosler@...) writes:
          > >
          > > > I maintain that a Czech translator living abroad will not survive while
          > > > working exclusively for Czech agencies, while a Czech translator living
          > > in CR
          > > > and working exclusively for Czech agencies could, I mean, not very well,
          > > but
          > > > pays his rent, or not?
          > >
          > > Perhaps, but how relevant is that? I mean, when such a Czech translator
          > > gets paid xxxxx CZK a month and thinks, fine, this pays my rent, is he
          > > bound
          > > to politely refuse any better rates because he could - what horror - earn
          > > some money extra? ;) (Or alternatively getting the same month income, but
          > > having more free time.)
          > >
          > > Besides that, with the same logic Czech (or Eastern Europe) producers
          > > should sell their products in Czech stores for 1/4 - 1/2 price (because it
          > > should be sufficient to cover local rents) compared to Western prices of
          > > the
          > > same product distributed over there, but somehow that is often not
          > > happenning.
          > >
          > > I mean, if Polish KitKat Chunky can cost 12 CZK / EUR 0.50 and Western
          > > produced ( = better quality) KK Chunky costs EUR 0.60, or if I can buy a
          > > bun
          > > (roll) in Germany for approx. EUR 0.10 and here for the same price,
          > > something is wrong with the "pay rent scheme".
          > >
          > > Tomas
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.