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Re: Neodolatelna nabidka

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  • Diana Krausova
    Hi Jamie, It certainly could be the LSP. But I completed a couple of jobs for this particular client in the past and they accepted my standard rates both
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 1, 2012
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      Hi Jamie,

      It certainly could be the LSP. But I completed a couple of jobs for this particular client in the past and they accepted my standard rates both times. Hence my surprise...

      Diana

      CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
      *****************************************
      tel: +1.248.787.8837
      fax: +1.248.629.6242

      Skype: czechtranslations
      email: diana@...
      dianakrausova@...

      On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Czechlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > 1b. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
      > Posted by: "James Kirchner" czechlist@... tomas.cejka
      > Date: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:36 pm ((PDT))
      >
      > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
      >
      > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.
      >
      > Jamie
      >
      > On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:
      >
      >> Ahoj ve skupine,
      >>
      >> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili obdrzela od klienta:
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Dear Diana,
      >>
      >> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a BP project from English to Czech.
      >>
      >> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
      >> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
      >>
      >> Regarding a rate, although you've given us USD 25 / 1000 words for proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for this project if you would be interested in?
      >> I'm aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above, this is a project for BP, and we've basically got a very small budget for every BP project.
      >> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
      >>
      >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v miliardach americkych dolaru...
      >>
      >>
      >> Diana
      >>
      >>
      >> CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
      >> *****************************************
      >> tel: +1.248.787.8837
      >> fax: +1.248.629.6242
      >>
      >> Skype: czechtranslations
      >> email: diana@...
      >> dianakrausova@...
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
    • James Kirchner
      Then they re probably being squeezed by the client. The funny thing is that they couldn t easily get a competent monolingual English proofreader for what they
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 1, 2012
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        Then they're probably being squeezed by the client. The funny thing is that they couldn't easily get a competent monolingual English proofreader for what they want to pay you.

        I've seen in companies where I worked before I was a translator that my colleagues' concept of quality control when right out the window once the project went into translation. At those companies, even if they had an employee who would know how to manage an outsourced translation project, that person usually wasn't put in charge of it. It usually went to an ignorant person who wanted to increase his fabulosity by being associated with something "international". Inevitably, the quality ended up being horrible, but nobody actually cared, because the project had been "successfully completed" at the price they wanted.

        Sometimes all they care about is who ends up with legal liability. At one ad agency they wound up with a brochure that was so garbled that it would have publicly humiliated the enormous, very important corporate client. I kept alerting the account executives and others to this, but the most common response was something like, "The translation house said they'd be liable for that." I'd ask, "But do you knowingly want it to go through that way?" There was no answer.

        Jamie

        On Nov 1, 2012, at 5:12 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:

        > Hi Jamie,
        >
        > It certainly could be the LSP. But I completed a couple of jobs for this particular client in the past and they accepted my standard rates both times. Hence my surprise...
        >
        > Diana
        >
        > CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
        > *****************************************
        > tel: +1.248.787.8837
        > fax: +1.248.629.6242
        >
        > Skype: czechtranslations
        > email: diana@...
        > dianakrausova@...
        >
        > On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Czechlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        >
        >>
        >> ________________________________________________________________________
        >> 1b. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
        >> Posted by: "James Kirchner" czechlist@... tomas.cejka
        >> Date: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:36 pm ((PDT))
        >>
        >> How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
        >>
        >> This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.
        >>
        >> Jamie
        >>
        >> On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:
        >>
        >>> Ahoj ve skupine,
        >>>
        >>> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili obdrzela od klienta:
        >>>
        >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >>>
        >>> Dear Diana,
        >>>
        >>> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a BP project from English to Czech.
        >>>
        >>> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
        >>> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
        >>>
        >>> Regarding a rate, although you've given us USD 25 / 1000 words for proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for this project if you would be interested in?
        >>> I'm aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above, this is a project for BP, and we've basically got a very small budget for every BP project.
        >>> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
        >>>
        >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >>>
        >>> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v miliardach americkych dolaru...
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Diana
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
        >>> *****************************************
        >>> tel: +1.248.787.8837
        >>> fax: +1.248.629.6242
        >>>
        >>> Skype: czechtranslations
        >>> email: diana@...
        >>> dianakrausova@...
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > Czechlist mailing list
        > Czechlist@...
        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


        _______________________________________________
        Czechlist mailing list
        Czechlist@...
        http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      • Tomas Mosler
        Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec: Zijete v USA a delate korektury
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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          Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
          prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:

          Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
          porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
          pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)

          A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
          (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
          poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
          nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)

          Tomas Mosler


          --- Diana Krausova <diana@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ahoj ve skupine,
          >
          > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
          obdrzela od klienta:
          >
          >
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > Dear Diana,
          >
          > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
          BP project from English to Czech.
          >
          > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
          > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
          >
          > Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
          proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
          this project if you would be interested in?
          > I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
          this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget
          for every BP project.
          > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
          >
          >
          -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
          sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
          miliardach americkych dolaru…
          >
          >
          > Diana
        • Tomas Mosler
          In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and I also don t like the trick of many jobs for little money , I have no problem in
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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            In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP) for individual jobs over 10k words.

            My reasons are:
            - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)

            - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time

            In other words, it is more efficient.

            Tomas


            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
            >
            > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
            >
            > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.
            >
            > Jamie
          • Romana
            Milý Tomáši, pro agenturu, která mi dává překlady ke korektuře skoro každý den, považuji USD 25 za 1000 slov absolutně fairní cenu. Já pro
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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              Milý Tomáši,



              pro agenturu, která mi dává překlady ke korektuře skoro každý den, považuji USD 25 za 1000 slov absolutně fairní cenu. Já pro takovou agenturu pracuji taky a dostávám 18 GBP (má sídlo v UK), což je asi na stejné úrovni.

              Můj názor je, že bychom měli podporovat agentury, které tyto dodatečné pracovní stupně dělají a za to platí. Bohužel existují stovky agentur, které tyto služby svým zákazníkům slibují, ale nenechávájí překlady zkontrolovat. To je v mých očích podvod na zákazníku.



              Existují také agentury, které si prakticky dělají srandu z překladatelů tím, že jim nabízí něco jako tady: Nedávno mi kolegyně z Rakouska psala, ze nějaká nová agentura z Mnichova ji nabídla 0,025 EUR pro slovo za PŘEKLAD ... tak já jsem se u této agentury jen tak pro zajímavost představïla jako potenciální zákazkyně z Austrálie a požádala jsem o cenovou nabídku pro podobný překlad ... a agentura po mně chtěla 0,20 EUR pro slovo – OSMKRÁT tolik! Takové věci by se konečný zákazník měl dozvědět, a překladatelé by je taky měli vědět. Já radím každému, aby si u nových agentur vypátral ceny pro konečné zákazníky. Pokud Vám agentura chce platit méně než polovinu, tak ji zničte.



              S pozdravem

              Romana





              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Mosler
              Sent: Friday, 2 November 2012 8:40 PM
              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com; Preklady@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka





              Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
              prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:

              Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
              porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
              pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)

              A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
              (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
              poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
              nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)

              Tomas Mosler

              --- Diana Krausova <diana@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ahoj ve skupine,
              >
              > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
              obdrzela od klienta:
              >
              >
              ----------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > Dear Diana,
              >
              > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
              BP project from English to Czech.
              >
              > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
              > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
              >
              > Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
              proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
              this project if you would be interested in?
              > I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
              this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget
              for every BP project.
              > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
              >
              >
              ----------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
              sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
              miliardach americkych dolaru…
              >
              >
              > Diana





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Sarka Rubkova
              Is it that easier to justify any discount? sarka From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Mosler Sent: Friday,
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                Is it that easier to justify any discount?



                sarka



                From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Tomas Mosler
                Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka





                In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and
                I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no
                problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP)
                for individual jobs over 10k words.

                My reasons are:
                - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case
                of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for
                10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as
                one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)

                - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time

                In other words, it is more efficient.

                Tomas

                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                >
                > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                >
                > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell
                students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts
                are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself
                cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However,
                people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick
                sometimes.
                >
                > Jamie





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Martin Janda
                It depends Sarka, butwith large technical project, say 15k +, often it is. Once you finetune your CAT tool and your brain to the text and style - and establish
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                  It depends Sarka, butwith large technical project, say 15k +, often it
                  is. Once you finetune your CAT tool and your brain to the text and style
                  - and establish the core terminology - things are much easier with most
                  technical projects I have seen. Plus, you will most likely get hundreds
                  or even thousands of internal match words that get paid at the full
                  rate. (Unless you accept wordcounts from Logoport, for instance.)

                  Sure, I am talking about technical texts such as manual, not literature.

                  The other thing is that clients offering such large projects often
                  expect very deep discounts - often much deeper than what is reasonable
                  and appropriate to the working time saved. You might save 10-20% of time
                  but they require a 50% cut.

                  Martin




                  Dne 2.11.2012 12:55, Sarka Rubkova napsal(a):
                  > Is it that easier to justify any discount?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > sarka
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  > Of Tomas Mosler
                  > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                  > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and
                  > I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no
                  > problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP)
                  > for individual jobs over 10k words.
                  >
                  > My reasons are:
                  > - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case
                  > of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for
                  > 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as
                  > one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)
                  >
                  > - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time
                  >
                  > In other words, it is more efficient.
                  >
                  > Tomas
                  >
                  > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                  > James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                  >> How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                  >>
                  >> This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell
                  > students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts
                  > are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself
                  > cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However,
                  > people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick
                  > sometimes.
                  >> Jamie
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Tomas Mosler
                  I m not sure I understand your point, can you elaborate a bit? Thanks. Either way, I didn t write about any discount. Tomas
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                    I'm not sure I understand your point, can you elaborate a bit? Thanks.

                    Either way, I didn't write about "any" discount.

                    Tomas


                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sarka Rubkova" <sarka@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Is it that easier to justify any discount?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > sarka
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of Tomas Mosler
                    > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and
                    > I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no
                    > problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP)
                    > for individual jobs over 10k words.
                    >
                    > My reasons are:
                    > - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case
                    > of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for
                    > 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as
                    > one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)
                    >
                    > - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time
                    >
                    > In other words, it is more efficient.
                    >
                    > Tomas
                    >
                    > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                    > James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                    > >
                    > > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell
                    > students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts
                    > are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself
                    > cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However,
                    > people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick
                    > sometimes.
                    > >
                    > > Jamie
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Diana Krausova
                    Tomasi, ano, ziju v USA, ale ceny nepodsekavam. Ta sazba, kterou mela agentura v databazi je zhruba 10 let stara, tudiz neplatna. Lacine zakazky rovnez
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                      Tomasi,

                      ano, ziju v USA, ale ceny nepodsekavam. Ta sazba, kterou mela agentura v databazi je zhruba 10 let stara, tudiz neplatna. Lacine zakazky rovnez odmitam :)

                      A BP prave vykazala zisk: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/31/business/global/bp-returns-to-profitability-and-raises-dividend.html

                      Hezky den,
                      Diana


                      > _________________________________________________
                      > 1c. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                      > Posted by: "Tomas Mosler" tomas.mosler@... tomas_mosler
                      > Date: Fri Nov 2, 2012 3:10 am ((PDT))
                      >
                      > Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                      > prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:
                      >
                      > Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                      > porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                      > pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)
                      >
                      > A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                      > (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                      > poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                      > nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)
                      >
                      > Tomas Mosler
                      >
                      >
                      > --- Diana Krausova <diana@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Ahoj ve skupine,
                      >>
                      >> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                      > obdrzela od klienta:
                      >>
                      >>
                      > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> Dear Diana,
                      >>
                      >> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                      > BP project from English to Czech.
                      >>
                      >> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                      >> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                      >>
                      >> Regarding a rate, although youâ•˙ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                      > proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                      > this project if you would be interested in?
                      >> Iâ•˙m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                      > this is a project for BP, and weâ•˙ve basically got a very small budget
                      > for every BP project.
                      >> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                      >>
                      >>
                      > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                      > sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                      > miliardach americkych dolaru╜
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Diana
                      >
                      >
                      CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                      *****************************************
                      tel: +1.248.787.8837
                      fax: +1.248.629.6242

                      Skype: czechtranslations
                      email: diana@...
                      dianakrausova@...
                    • Tomas Mosler
                      ... Vyborne (ono to z toho e-mailu nebylo poznat, puvodni sazbu jste nekomentovala a navic kdyz jste psala, ze jste pro ne neco delala). ... Jiste, to jsem
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                        > ano, ziju v USA, ale ceny nepodsekavam. Ta sazba, kterou mela agentura v databazi je zhruba 10 let stara, tudiz neplatna. Lacine zakazky rovnez odmitam :)

                        Vyborne (ono to z toho e-mailu nebylo poznat, puvodni sazbu jste nekomentovala a navic kdyz jste psala, ze jste pro ne neco delala).


                        > A BP prave vykazala zisk

                        Jiste, to jsem nezpochybnoval, pouze nerozumim te logice, ze klient jako by mel platit za jednotku sluzby v zavislosti na vysi sveho zisku... (Napr. Microsoft mel ve druhem ctvrtleti kalendarniho roku 2012 cistou ztratu, presto pro nej asi prekladatele nepracovali zadarmo nebo dokonce tak, ze by za preklad platili.)

                        Tomas


                        > > _________________________________________________
                        > > 1c. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                        > > Posted by: "Tomas Mosler" tomas.mosler@... tomas_mosler
                        > > Date: Fri Nov 2, 2012 3:10 am ((PDT))
                        > >
                        > > Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                        > > prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:
                        > >
                        > > Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                        > > porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                        > > pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)
                        > >
                        > > A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                        > > (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                        > > poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                        > > nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)
                        > >
                        > > Tomas Mosler
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- Diana Krausova <diana@> wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >> Ahoj ve skupine,
                        > >>
                        > >> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                        > > obdrzela od klienta:
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > >>
                        > >> Dear Diana,
                        > >>
                        > >> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                        > > BP project from English to Czech.
                        > >>
                        > >> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                        > >> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                        > >>
                        > >> Regarding a rate, although youâ•˙ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                        > > proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                        > > this project if you would be interested in?
                        > >> Iâ•˙m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                        > > this is a project for BP, and weâ•˙ve basically got a very small budget
                        > > for every BP project.
                        > >> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > >>
                        > >> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                        > > sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                        > > miliardach americkych dolaruâ•Å"
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Diana
                        > >
                        > >
                        > CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                        > *****************************************
                        > tel: +1.248.787.8837
                        > fax: +1.248.629.6242
                        >
                        > Skype: czechtranslations
                        > email: diana@...
                        > dianakrausova@...
                        >
                      • Tomas Mosler
                        Romano, Vasi predstavu o fairni cene Vam neberu. Je-li x % prekladatelu spokojeno s Vami uvadenou sazbou, aspon nevznika konkurencni pretlak u skupiny
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                          Romano, Vasi predstavu o "fairni" cene Vam neberu. Je-li x % prekladatelu spokojeno s Vami uvadenou sazbou, aspon nevznika konkurencni pretlak u skupiny dalsich x % prekladatelu, kteri za korekturu uctuji treba dvojnasobek, atd.

                          Ale uplne nerozumim Vasemu nazoru o "nasi podpore agentur". To je snad prece vec te agentury, co a za kolik zadava a co slibuje, proc by to mel byt duvod k obhajobe levnych korektur (misto zadnych korektur), na coz doplati jen prekladatel?

                          Krome toho, stejne tak lze prece agentury poctive zajistujici korektury podporovat (provedenim te korektury) i treba za nasobek sazby.

                          Stejne tak nerozumim, proc se starate o niceni agentur (ale pritom ochotne nicite sebe, pokud pominu moznost, ze z nejakeho duvodu opravdu radeji pracujete za nizsi sazby nez za vyssi) - marze jsou jejich vec, pokud prekladatele za nejakou sazbu nebudou ochotni pracovat, je po problemu.

                          Tomas


                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Romana" <translators@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Milý Tomáši,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > pro agenturu, která mi dává překlady ke korektuře skoro každý den, považuji USD 25 za 1000 slov absolutně fairní cenu. Já pro takovou agenturu pracuji taky a dostávám 18 GBP (má sídlo v UK), což je asi na stejné úrovni.
                          >
                          > Můj názor je, že bychom měli podporovat agentury, které tyto dodatečné pracovní stupně dělají a za to platí. Bohužel existují stovky agentur, které tyto služby svým zákazníkům slibují, ale nenechávájí překlady zkontrolovat. To je v mých očích podvod na zákazníku.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Existují také agentury, které si prakticky dělají srandu z překladatelů tím, že jim nabízí něco jako tady: Nedávno mi kolegyně z Rakouska psala, ze nějaká nová agentura z Mnichova ji nabídla 0,025 EUR pro slovo za PŘEKLAD ... tak já jsem se u této agentury jen tak pro zajímavost představïla jako potenciální zákazkyně z Austrálie a požádala jsem o cenovou nabídku pro podobný překlad ... a agentura po mně chtěla 0,20 EUR pro slovo â€" OSMKRÁT tolik! Takové věci by se konečný zákazník měl dozvědět, a překladatelé by je taky měli vědět. Já radím každému, aby si u nových agentur vypátral ceny pro konečné zákazníky. Pokud Vám agentura chce platit méně než polovinu, tak ji zničte.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > S pozdravem
                          >
                          > Romana
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Mosler
                          > Sent: Friday, 2 November 2012 8:40 PM
                          > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com; Preklady@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                          > prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:
                          >
                          > Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                          > porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                          > pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)
                          >
                          > A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                          > (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                          > poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                          > nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)
                          >
                          > Tomas Mosler
                          >
                          > --- Diana Krausova <diana@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Ahoj ve skupine,
                          > >
                          > > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                          > obdrzela od klienta:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Dear Diana,
                          > >
                          > > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                          > BP project from English to Czech.
                          > >
                          > > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                          > > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                          > >
                          > > Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                          > proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                          > this project if you would be interested in?
                          > > I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                          > this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget
                          > for every BP project.
                          > > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                          > sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                          > miliardach americkych dolaru…
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Diana
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • ferstl@volny.cz
                          Martine, zrovna jsem mela rozepsan mail s naprosto stejnou myslenkou. Nase profese je v tom naprosto jedinecna. Kdyz si vezmu svou vlastní zkusenost - nedavno
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 3, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Martine, zrovna jsem mela rozepsan mail s naprosto stejnou myslenkou. Nase
                            profese je v tom naprosto jedinecna. Kdyz si vezmu svou vlastní zkusenost -
                            nedavno jsem pocitala, ze pouhych 5 % sve práce prodavam ceskym klientum, a
                            to jen z urcite slabosti a diky dlouholetym vztahum. Jako prekladatele se
                            nemusime se nikam premistovat, a pokud bychom tu potrebu meli, pak bych to
                            videla na nejaky romanticky domecek na plazi - jako nekolik mych znamych
                            prekladatelu, kterym odrostly deti.
                            Hezky sobotni podvecer
                            Lenka






                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Of Martin Janda
                            Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 5:58 PM
                            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka

                            Ale no tak, Petre. Proc bychom se zvedali a ustupovali? Na rozdil od doktoru
                            nemusime byt nutne tam, kde potrebuji nasi praci a kde nam za ni plati, ne?
                            Mame tak docela kliku - maloktera jina profese muze skloubit zapadni
                            odmenovani s ceskymi zivotnimi naklady...

                            Martin


                            Dne 3.11.2012 16:03, Petr napsal(a):
                            >
                            > Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba
                            > posuzovat v kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR,
                            > vydelku srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to
                            > totez jako u lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k
                            > zapadnim sousedum (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy
                            > nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za
                            > nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky roman ...).
                            > Petr Adamek
                            > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > hgeige@... wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > What was relevant to me was that while I could "sort of" support
                            > > myself working for Czech agencies in CR, I could not support myself
                            > > working
                            > for Czech
                            > > agencies from the U.S., due to different buying power.
                            > >
                            > > Of course a translations totaling CZK 15 000 will pay my rent (I
                            > assume)
                            > > in Prague, but this amount will not pay my rent in New York. That is
                            > all I
                            > > meant, and sorry if I haven't expressed myself clearly.
                            > >
                            > > What he/she refuses or not was not the issue I was putting forward.
                            > > Thanks, Tomas
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > In a message dated 11/2/2012 2:44:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                            > > tomas.mosler@... writes:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > I maintain that a Czech translator living abroad will not survive
                            > while
                            > > > working exclusively for Czech agencies, while a Czech translator
                            > living
                            > > in CR
                            > > > and working exclusively for Czech agencies could, I mean, not very
                            > well,
                            > > but
                            > > > pays his rent, or not?
                            > >
                            > > Perhaps, but how relevant is that? I mean, when such a Czech
                            > > translator gets paid xxxxx CZK a month and thinks, fine, this pays
                            > > my rent, is
                            > he bound
                            > > to politely refuse any better rates because he could - what horror -
                            > earn
                            > > some money extra? ;) (Or alternatively getting the same month
                            > income, but
                            > > having more free time.)
                            > >
                            > > Besides that, with the same logic Czech (or Eastern Europe)
                            > > producers should sell their products in Czech stores for 1/4 - 1/2
                            > > price
                            > (because it
                            > > should be sufficient to cover local rents) compared to Western
                            > prices of the
                            > > same product distributed over there, but somehow that is often not
                            > happenning.
                            > >
                            > > I mean, if Polish KitKat Chunky can cost 12 CZK / EUR 0.50 and
                            > > Western produced ( = better quality) KK Chunky costs EUR 0.60, or if
                            > > I can
                            > buy a bun
                            > > (roll) in Germany for approx. EUR 0.10 and here for the same price,
                            > > something is wrong with the "pay rent scheme".
                            > >
                            > > Tomas
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >



                            ------------------------------------






                            Yahoo! Groups Links



                            -----
                            Zpráva neobsahuje viry.
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                            Verze: 2012.0.2221 / Virová báze: 2441/5370 - Datum vydání: 2.11.2012
                          • ferstl@volny.cz
                            Jeste bych chtela v této souvislosti zminit jeden aspekt prace v Cechach a pro zahranicni klienty. Pokud vezmeme v uvahu preklady velkych jazyku, jako je
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 4, 2012
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                              Jeste bych chtela v této souvislosti zminit jeden aspekt prace v Cechach a
                              pro zahranicni klienty.
                              Pokud vezmeme v uvahu preklady "velkych" jazyku, jako je anglictina, nemcina
                              atd., konkurence v Cechach je velika, v ruzne kvalite, zamereni atd.
                              Jestlize vsak takovy prekladatel pracuje pro zahranicniho klienta, razem se
                              z nej stava prekladatel "exotickeho" jazyka, coz ma dle meho také vliv na
                              vysledne sazby.
                              Hezkou nedeli preji
                              Lenka


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Tomas Mosler
                              Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 11:58 PM
                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka



                              Prekladatele "ustoupit" maji kam, o tom uz psal Martin, pouze (nekteri)
                              mozna nemaji odvahu - a nakonec nekteri jsou mozna i spokojeni a radeji nez
                              sobe daji vic vydelat agenture. (Nic proti altruismu, ale myslim, ze zrovna
                              v teto oblasti to neni uplne idealni pristup.)

                              Myslim, ze cena prace (zamerne nepisu plat, protoze prekladatelu s platem je
                              podle me malo) prekladatele-zivnostnika se neda nacpat do nejakych tabulek a
                              prumeru, ale odviji se (i) od toho, jakou odmenu povazuje kazdy jednotlive v
                              ramci volneho trhu za svou praci za adekvatni.

                              Jinak co se tyka nakladu, Vase myslenka "kontextu nakladu" nefunguje ani v
                              jinych oborech. Pokud dokazete nakupovat ceske potraviny za tretinovou cenu
                              oproti zapadnim pri srovnatelne kvalite, prosim napiste mi, kde to je. Ja
                              spis znam ceske potraviny za mozna nizsi cenu, ale take v nizsi kvalite.

                              Podobne je to i u dovazenych polozek. (Nakonec i software atd. pro
                              prekladatele se - tusim s vyjimkou Wordfastu a castecne Tradosu, kdy to ale
                              rozhodne neni 1/3 zapadnich cen - neprodava za "ceske" ceny; ostatne jak to,
                              ze clenstvi v nekterych zahranicnich asociacich stoji podobne penize jako
                              treba v JTP [a pritom je to trochu jiny servis].)

                              A plati to take u zbozi, ktere se vyrabi u nas, ale je dostupne i jinde.
                              Napriklad cena eletriny, ktera je na evropske urovni. Nebo (toto uz jsem
                              psal na Prekladech): Jak to, ze se Peugeoty vyrobene v Koline neprodavaji v
                              CR za tretinovou cenu oproti cene (tychz levne vyrobenych vozu z Kolina) ve
                              Francii? A takovych prikladu by bylo vice, nejde zdaleka jen o "zbytny"
                              automobil.

                              Jestlize tedy zdaleka neplati "na ceskem trhu ceske ceny", proc by potom
                              prekladatele meli byt nejaci otloukankove, "protoze nejaky prumer"? Jini
                              podnikatele se tim take neridi a chteji prodavat zbozi a sluzby
                              hypotetickemu prekladateli s 1/3 prijmem za cenu stejnou jako jinde.

                              Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, nerikam, ze vsechno vsude stoji stejne, na
                              Zapade jsou IMHO drazsi hlavne sluzby a pojisteni, ale spis chci rict, ze se
                              tam (jen priklad) 3x vic vydelava, i kdyz ne vse stoji 3x vic. Proc by tedy
                              i prekladatel v CR nemohl vydelavat napr. 3x vic, i kdyz ne vse v CR stoji
                              3x vic ( = stejne jako "na Zapade")?

                              Jeste pro srovnani porovani prijmu v parite kupni sily (tedy co si lze
                              koupit):
                              http://www.finance.cz/zpravy/finance/369199-kde-se-zije-za-prumernou-mzdu-ne
                              jlepe-/

                              Nebo toto:
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
                              (Tipuji, ze prumerny prekladatel v Nemecku vydela vice nez 33 % (80/107)
                              navic oproti prumernemu prekladateli v Cesku.)

                              Tomas Mosler

                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                              "Petr" <padamek@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba posuzovat v
                              kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR, vydelku
                              srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to totez jako u
                              lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k zapadnim sousedum
                              (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u
                              nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky
                              roman ...).
                              > Petr Adamek




                              ________________________________

                              Zpráva neobsahuje viry.
                              Zkontrolováno AVG - www.avg.cz
                              Verze: 2012.0.2221 / Virová báze: 2441/5371 - Datum vydání: 3.11.2012
                            • Jakub Skrebsky
                              Lenko, v zasade souhlasim. Asi pred 6 lety jsem nahodou zjistil, ze pokud umim prekladat z anglictiny a ziju v Cechach, neni to nic zvlastniho. Pokud se
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 4, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Lenko, v zasade souhlasim. Asi pred 6 lety jsem nahodou zjistil, ze pokud umim prekladat z anglictiny a ziju v Cechach, neni to nic zvlastniho. Pokud se stejnou kvalifikaci ziju v UK, jsem automaticky povazovan za specialistu. To mi tehdy dodalo odvahu vydat se na volnou nohu.
                                Jenze agentury i primi klienti uz davno zjistili, ze se vyplati najmout si prekladatele z vychodu. Stejne hledaji lidi online a zadavani zakazek take probiha vetsinou e-mailem. Misto pobytu prekladatele tak stale hraje vyraznou roli, ale nyni opacnou. Cim dale na vychod, tim lepe. Takze ikdyz ziju v UK, jsem postupne tlacen dolu na vychodni ceny. Jedinou obranou je soustredit se na konzervativni klienty, kteri jeste neobjevili globalni outsourcing/crowdsourcing. Krome toho v UK platim mnohem vyssi dane, protoze zde neexistuje nakladovy pausal.
                                Vetsina mych zdejsich kolegu, prekladajicich mezi AJ a vychodoevropskymi jazyky, zustava v UK spise z osobnich/rodinnych duvodu.

                                Jakub

                                On 4 Nov 2012, at 08:48, <ferstl@...> <ferstl@...> wrote:

                                > Jeste bych chtela v této souvislosti zminit jeden aspekt prace v Cechach a
                                > pro zahranicni klienty.
                                > Pokud vezmeme v uvahu preklady "velkych" jazyku, jako je anglictina, nemcina
                                > atd., konkurence v Cechach je velika, v ruzne kvalite, zamereni atd.
                                > Jestlize vsak takovy prekladatel pracuje pro zahranicniho klienta, razem se
                                > z nej stava prekladatel "exotickeho" jazyka, coz ma dle meho také vliv na
                                > vysledne sazby.
                                > Hezkou nedeli preji
                                > Lenka
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                > Of Tomas Mosler
                                > Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 11:58 PM
                                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Prekladatele "ustoupit" maji kam, o tom uz psal Martin, pouze (nekteri)
                                > mozna nemaji odvahu - a nakonec nekteri jsou mozna i spokojeni a radeji nez
                                > sobe daji vic vydelat agenture. (Nic proti altruismu, ale myslim, ze zrovna
                                > v teto oblasti to neni uplne idealni pristup.)
                                >
                                > Myslim, ze cena prace (zamerne nepisu plat, protoze prekladatelu s platem je
                                > podle me malo) prekladatele-zivnostnika se neda nacpat do nejakych tabulek a
                                > prumeru, ale odviji se (i) od toho, jakou odmenu povazuje kazdy jednotlive v
                                > ramci volneho trhu za svou praci za adekvatni.
                                >
                                > Jinak co se tyka nakladu, Vase myslenka "kontextu nakladu" nefunguje ani v
                                > jinych oborech. Pokud dokazete nakupovat ceske potraviny za tretinovou cenu
                                > oproti zapadnim pri srovnatelne kvalite, prosim napiste mi, kde to je. Ja
                                > spis znam ceske potraviny za mozna nizsi cenu, ale take v nizsi kvalite.
                                >
                                > Podobne je to i u dovazenych polozek. (Nakonec i software atd. pro
                                > prekladatele se - tusim s vyjimkou Wordfastu a castecne Tradosu, kdy to ale
                                > rozhodne neni 1/3 zapadnich cen - neprodava za "ceske" ceny; ostatne jak to,
                                > ze clenstvi v nekterych zahranicnich asociacich stoji podobne penize jako
                                > treba v JTP [a pritom je to trochu jiny servis].)
                                >
                                > A plati to take u zbozi, ktere se vyrabi u nas, ale je dostupne i jinde.
                                > Napriklad cena eletriny, ktera je na evropske urovni. Nebo (toto uz jsem
                                > psal na Prekladech): Jak to, ze se Peugeoty vyrobene v Koline neprodavaji v
                                > CR za tretinovou cenu oproti cene (tychz levne vyrobenych vozu z Kolina) ve
                                > Francii? A takovych prikladu by bylo vice, nejde zdaleka jen o "zbytny"
                                > automobil.
                                >
                                > Jestlize tedy zdaleka neplati "na ceskem trhu ceske ceny", proc by potom
                                > prekladatele meli byt nejaci otloukankove, "protoze nejaky prumer"? Jini
                                > podnikatele se tim take neridi a chteji prodavat zbozi a sluzby
                                > hypotetickemu prekladateli s 1/3 prijmem za cenu stejnou jako jinde.
                                >
                                > Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, nerikam, ze vsechno vsude stoji stejne, na
                                > Zapade jsou IMHO drazsi hlavne sluzby a pojisteni, ale spis chci rict, ze se
                                > tam (jen priklad) 3x vic vydelava, i kdyz ne vse stoji 3x vic. Proc by tedy
                                > i prekladatel v CR nemohl vydelavat napr. 3x vic, i kdyz ne vse v CR stoji
                                > 3x vic ( = stejne jako "na Zapade")?
                                >
                                > Jeste pro srovnani porovani prijmu v parite kupni sily (tedy co si lze
                                > koupit):
                                > http://www.finance.cz/zpravy/finance/369199-kde-se-zije-za-prumernou-mzdu-ne
                                > jlepe-/
                                >
                                > Nebo toto:
                                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
                                > (Tipuji, ze prumerny prekladatel v Nemecku vydela vice nez 33 % (80/107)
                                > navic oproti prumernemu prekladateli v Cesku.)
                                >
                                > Tomas Mosler
                                >
                                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                > "Petr" <padamek@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba posuzovat v
                                > kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR, vydelku
                                > srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to totez jako u
                                > lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k zapadnim sousedum
                                > (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u
                                > nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky
                                > roman ...).
                                >> Petr Adamek
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                >
                                > Zpráva neobsahuje viry.
                                > Zkontrolováno AVG - www.avg.cz
                                > Verze: 2012.0.2221 / Virová báze: 2441/5371 - Datum vydání: 3.11.2012
                                >
                                >
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                              • Sarka Rubkova
                                Svym zoùsobem má¹ asi pravdu - ale jako obvykle neplatí to v¾dy. sarka ... From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 5, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Svym zoůsobem máš asi pravdu - ale jako obvykle neplatí to vždy.
                                  sarka

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  Of Martin Janda
                                  Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 1:13 PM
                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka

                                  It depends Sarka, butwith large technical project, say 15k +, often it is.
                                  Once you finetune your CAT tool and your brain to the text and style
                                  - and establish the core terminology - things are much easier with most
                                  technical projects I have seen. Plus, you will most likely get hundreds or
                                  even thousands of internal match words that get paid at the full rate.
                                  (Unless you accept wordcounts from Logoport, for instance.)

                                  Sure, I am talking about technical texts such as manual, not literature.

                                  The other thing is that clients offering such large projects often expect
                                  very deep discounts - often much deeper than what is reasonable and
                                  appropriate to the working time saved. You might save 10-20% of time but
                                  they require a 50% cut.

                                  Martin




                                  Dne 2.11.2012 12:55, Sarka Rubkova napsal(a):
                                  > Is it that easier to justify any discount?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > sarka
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  > Behalf Of Tomas Mosler
                                  > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                                  > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point
                                  > Jamie, and I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little
                                  > money", I have no problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as
                                  > requested by that LSP) for individual jobs over 10k words.
                                  >
                                  > My reasons are:
                                  > - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in
                                  > case of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x
                                  > 1k job for
                                  > 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same
                                  > client as one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)
                                  >
                                  > - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time
                                  >
                                  > In other words, it is more efficient.
                                  >
                                  > Tomas
                                  >
                                  > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > , James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                                  >> How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                                  >>
                                  >> This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I
                                  >> tell
                                  > students in training sessions and translation classes that volume
                                  > discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator
                                  > can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over
                                  > more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they
                                  > fall for the trick sometimes.
                                  >> Jamie
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
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