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Re: "Wet paint" thing

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  • Melvyn
    ... Not going to argue with this babrle thing for a moment, but you do also see cerstve natreno .
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 1, 2012
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      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
      >
      > In the Czech Republic, when a fresh coat of wet paint is put on something like a park bench, etc., they don't put a sign on it that says "Wet Paint", like they do in the US.

      Not going to argue with this babrle thing for a moment, but you do also see "cerstve natreno".

      http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lavi%C4%8Dka,_pozor_%C4%8Derstv%C4%9B_nat%C5%99eno.jpg

      Some more signs you know and love:

      Pozor - zly pes -- Beware of the dog (though "attention, the evil dog" sounds quite forbidding :-).

      Neklopit! -- This side up

      Zivotu nebezpecno! -- Danger!

      Nepovolanym vstup zakazan -- No admittance except on business

      Pozor schod -- Mind the step

      Pozor na mezeru -- Mind the gap VIZ
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/5903

      BR

      M.
    • Diana Krausova
      Hi Jamie, It certainly could be the LSP. But I completed a couple of jobs for this particular client in the past and they accepted my standard rates both
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 1, 2012
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        Hi Jamie,

        It certainly could be the LSP. But I completed a couple of jobs for this particular client in the past and they accepted my standard rates both times. Hence my surprise...

        Diana

        CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
        *****************************************
        tel: +1.248.787.8837
        fax: +1.248.629.6242

        Skype: czechtranslations
        email: diana@...
        dianakrausova@...

        On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Czechlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > 1b. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
        > Posted by: "James Kirchner" czechlist@... tomas.cejka
        > Date: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:36 pm ((PDT))
        >
        > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
        >
        > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.
        >
        > Jamie
        >
        > On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:
        >
        >> Ahoj ve skupine,
        >>
        >> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili obdrzela od klienta:
        >>
        >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Dear Diana,
        >>
        >> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a BP project from English to Czech.
        >>
        >> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
        >> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
        >>
        >> Regarding a rate, although you've given us USD 25 / 1000 words for proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for this project if you would be interested in?
        >> I'm aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above, this is a project for BP, and we've basically got a very small budget for every BP project.
        >> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
        >>
        >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v miliardach americkych dolaru...
        >>
        >>
        >> Diana
        >>
        >>
        >> CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
        >> *****************************************
        >> tel: +1.248.787.8837
        >> fax: +1.248.629.6242
        >>
        >> Skype: czechtranslations
        >> email: diana@...
        >> dianakrausova@...
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
      • James Kirchner
        Then they re probably being squeezed by the client. The funny thing is that they couldn t easily get a competent monolingual English proofreader for what they
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 1, 2012
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          Then they're probably being squeezed by the client. The funny thing is that they couldn't easily get a competent monolingual English proofreader for what they want to pay you.

          I've seen in companies where I worked before I was a translator that my colleagues' concept of quality control when right out the window once the project went into translation. At those companies, even if they had an employee who would know how to manage an outsourced translation project, that person usually wasn't put in charge of it. It usually went to an ignorant person who wanted to increase his fabulosity by being associated with something "international". Inevitably, the quality ended up being horrible, but nobody actually cared, because the project had been "successfully completed" at the price they wanted.

          Sometimes all they care about is who ends up with legal liability. At one ad agency they wound up with a brochure that was so garbled that it would have publicly humiliated the enormous, very important corporate client. I kept alerting the account executives and others to this, but the most common response was something like, "The translation house said they'd be liable for that." I'd ask, "But do you knowingly want it to go through that way?" There was no answer.

          Jamie

          On Nov 1, 2012, at 5:12 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:

          > Hi Jamie,
          >
          > It certainly could be the LSP. But I completed a couple of jobs for this particular client in the past and they accepted my standard rates both times. Hence my surprise...
          >
          > Diana
          >
          > CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
          > *****************************************
          > tel: +1.248.787.8837
          > fax: +1.248.629.6242
          >
          > Skype: czechtranslations
          > email: diana@...
          > dianakrausova@...
          >
          > On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Czechlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:
          >
          >>
          >> ________________________________________________________________________
          >> 1b. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
          >> Posted by: "James Kirchner" czechlist@... tomas.cejka
          >> Date: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:36 pm ((PDT))
          >>
          >> How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
          >>
          >> This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.
          >>
          >> Jamie
          >>
          >> On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:
          >>
          >>> Ahoj ve skupine,
          >>>
          >>> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili obdrzela od klienta:
          >>>
          >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >>>
          >>> Dear Diana,
          >>>
          >>> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a BP project from English to Czech.
          >>>
          >>> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
          >>> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
          >>>
          >>> Regarding a rate, although you've given us USD 25 / 1000 words for proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for this project if you would be interested in?
          >>> I'm aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above, this is a project for BP, and we've basically got a very small budget for every BP project.
          >>> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
          >>>
          >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >>>
          >>> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v miliardach americkych dolaru...
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Diana
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
          >>> *****************************************
          >>> tel: +1.248.787.8837
          >>> fax: +1.248.629.6242
          >>>
          >>> Skype: czechtranslations
          >>> email: diana@...
          >>> dianakrausova@...
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >>
          >
          > _______________________________________________
          > Czechlist mailing list
          > Czechlist@...
          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


          _______________________________________________
          Czechlist mailing list
          Czechlist@...
          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        • Tomas Mosler
          Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec: Zijete v USA a delate korektury
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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            Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
            prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:

            Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
            porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
            pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)

            A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
            (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
            poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
            nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)

            Tomas Mosler


            --- Diana Krausova <diana@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ahoj ve skupine,
            >
            > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
            obdrzela od klienta:
            >
            >
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            > Dear Diana,
            >
            > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
            BP project from English to Czech.
            >
            > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
            > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
            >
            > Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
            proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
            this project if you would be interested in?
            > I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
            this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget
            for every BP project.
            > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
            >
            >
            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
            sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
            miliardach americkych dolaru…
            >
            >
            > Diana
          • Tomas Mosler
            In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and I also don t like the trick of many jobs for little money , I have no problem in
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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              In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP) for individual jobs over 10k words.

              My reasons are:
              - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)

              - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time

              In other words, it is more efficient.

              Tomas


              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
              >
              > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
              >
              > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.
              >
              > Jamie
            • Romana
              Milý Tomáši, pro agenturu, která mi dává překlady ke korektuře skoro každý den, považuji USD 25 za 1000 slov absolutně fairní cenu. Já pro
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                Milý Tomáši,



                pro agenturu, která mi dává překlady ke korektuře skoro každý den, považuji USD 25 za 1000 slov absolutně fairní cenu. Já pro takovou agenturu pracuji taky a dostávám 18 GBP (má sídlo v UK), což je asi na stejné úrovni.

                Můj názor je, že bychom měli podporovat agentury, které tyto dodatečné pracovní stupně dělají a za to platí. Bohužel existují stovky agentur, které tyto služby svým zákazníkům slibují, ale nenechávájí překlady zkontrolovat. To je v mých očích podvod na zákazníku.



                Existují také agentury, které si prakticky dělají srandu z překladatelů tím, že jim nabízí něco jako tady: Nedávno mi kolegyně z Rakouska psala, ze nějaká nová agentura z Mnichova ji nabídla 0,025 EUR pro slovo za PŘEKLAD ... tak já jsem se u této agentury jen tak pro zajímavost představïla jako potenciální zákazkyně z Austrálie a požádala jsem o cenovou nabídku pro podobný překlad ... a agentura po mně chtěla 0,20 EUR pro slovo – OSMKRÁT tolik! Takové věci by se konečný zákazník měl dozvědět, a překladatelé by je taky měli vědět. Já radím každému, aby si u nových agentur vypátral ceny pro konečné zákazníky. Pokud Vám agentura chce platit méně než polovinu, tak ji zničte.



                S pozdravem

                Romana





                From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Mosler
                Sent: Friday, 2 November 2012 8:40 PM
                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com; Preklady@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka





                Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:

                Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)

                A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)

                Tomas Mosler

                --- Diana Krausova <diana@...> wrote:
                >
                > Ahoj ve skupine,
                >
                > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                obdrzela od klienta:
                >
                >
                ----------------------------------------------------------
                >
                > Dear Diana,
                >
                > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                BP project from English to Czech.
                >
                > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                >
                > Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                this project if you would be interested in?
                > I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget
                for every BP project.
                > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                >
                >
                ----------------------------------------------------------
                >
                > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                miliardach americkych dolaru…
                >
                >
                > Diana





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Sarka Rubkova
                Is it that easier to justify any discount? sarka From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Mosler Sent: Friday,
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                  Is it that easier to justify any discount?



                  sarka



                  From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Tomas Mosler
                  Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka





                  In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and
                  I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no
                  problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP)
                  for individual jobs over 10k words.

                  My reasons are:
                  - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case
                  of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for
                  10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as
                  one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)

                  - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time

                  In other words, it is more efficient.

                  Tomas

                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                  James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                  >
                  > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell
                  students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts
                  are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself
                  cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However,
                  people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick
                  sometimes.
                  >
                  > Jamie





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Martin Janda
                  It depends Sarka, butwith large technical project, say 15k +, often it is. Once you finetune your CAT tool and your brain to the text and style - and establish
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                    It depends Sarka, butwith large technical project, say 15k +, often it
                    is. Once you finetune your CAT tool and your brain to the text and style
                    - and establish the core terminology - things are much easier with most
                    technical projects I have seen. Plus, you will most likely get hundreds
                    or even thousands of internal match words that get paid at the full
                    rate. (Unless you accept wordcounts from Logoport, for instance.)

                    Sure, I am talking about technical texts such as manual, not literature.

                    The other thing is that clients offering such large projects often
                    expect very deep discounts - often much deeper than what is reasonable
                    and appropriate to the working time saved. You might save 10-20% of time
                    but they require a 50% cut.

                    Martin




                    Dne 2.11.2012 12:55, Sarka Rubkova napsal(a):
                    > Is it that easier to justify any discount?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > sarka
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of Tomas Mosler
                    > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and
                    > I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no
                    > problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP)
                    > for individual jobs over 10k words.
                    >
                    > My reasons are:
                    > - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case
                    > of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for
                    > 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as
                    > one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)
                    >
                    > - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time
                    >
                    > In other words, it is more efficient.
                    >
                    > Tomas
                    >
                    > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                    > James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                    >> How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                    >>
                    >> This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell
                    > students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts
                    > are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself
                    > cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However,
                    > people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick
                    > sometimes.
                    >> Jamie
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Tomas Mosler
                    I m not sure I understand your point, can you elaborate a bit? Thanks. Either way, I didn t write about any discount. Tomas
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                      I'm not sure I understand your point, can you elaborate a bit? Thanks.

                      Either way, I didn't write about "any" discount.

                      Tomas


                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sarka Rubkova" <sarka@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Is it that easier to justify any discount?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > sarka
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      > Of Tomas Mosler
                      > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and
                      > I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no
                      > problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP)
                      > for individual jobs over 10k words.
                      >
                      > My reasons are:
                      > - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case
                      > of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for
                      > 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as
                      > one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)
                      >
                      > - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time
                      >
                      > In other words, it is more efficient.
                      >
                      > Tomas
                      >
                      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                      > James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                      > >
                      > > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell
                      > students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts
                      > are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself
                      > cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However,
                      > people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick
                      > sometimes.
                      > >
                      > > Jamie
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Diana Krausova
                      Tomasi, ano, ziju v USA, ale ceny nepodsekavam. Ta sazba, kterou mela agentura v databazi je zhruba 10 let stara, tudiz neplatna. Lacine zakazky rovnez
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
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                        Tomasi,

                        ano, ziju v USA, ale ceny nepodsekavam. Ta sazba, kterou mela agentura v databazi je zhruba 10 let stara, tudiz neplatna. Lacine zakazky rovnez odmitam :)

                        A BP prave vykazala zisk: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/31/business/global/bp-returns-to-profitability-and-raises-dividend.html

                        Hezky den,
                        Diana


                        > _________________________________________________
                        > 1c. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                        > Posted by: "Tomas Mosler" tomas.mosler@... tomas_mosler
                        > Date: Fri Nov 2, 2012 3:10 am ((PDT))
                        >
                        > Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                        > prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:
                        >
                        > Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                        > porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                        > pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)
                        >
                        > A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                        > (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                        > poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                        > nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)
                        >
                        > Tomas Mosler
                        >
                        >
                        > --- Diana Krausova <diana@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Ahoj ve skupine,
                        >>
                        >> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                        > obdrzela od klienta:
                        >>
                        >>
                        > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> Dear Diana,
                        >>
                        >> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                        > BP project from English to Czech.
                        >>
                        >> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                        >> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                        >>
                        >> Regarding a rate, although youâ•˙ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                        > proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                        > this project if you would be interested in?
                        >> Iâ•˙m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                        > this is a project for BP, and weâ•˙ve basically got a very small budget
                        > for every BP project.
                        >> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                        >>
                        >>
                        > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                        > sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                        > miliardach americkych dolaru╜
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Diana
                        >
                        >
                        CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                        *****************************************
                        tel: +1.248.787.8837
                        fax: +1.248.629.6242

                        Skype: czechtranslations
                        email: diana@...
                        dianakrausova@...
                      • Tomas Mosler
                        ... Vyborne (ono to z toho e-mailu nebylo poznat, puvodni sazbu jste nekomentovala a navic kdyz jste psala, ze jste pro ne neco delala). ... Jiste, to jsem
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > ano, ziju v USA, ale ceny nepodsekavam. Ta sazba, kterou mela agentura v databazi je zhruba 10 let stara, tudiz neplatna. Lacine zakazky rovnez odmitam :)

                          Vyborne (ono to z toho e-mailu nebylo poznat, puvodni sazbu jste nekomentovala a navic kdyz jste psala, ze jste pro ne neco delala).


                          > A BP prave vykazala zisk

                          Jiste, to jsem nezpochybnoval, pouze nerozumim te logice, ze klient jako by mel platit za jednotku sluzby v zavislosti na vysi sveho zisku... (Napr. Microsoft mel ve druhem ctvrtleti kalendarniho roku 2012 cistou ztratu, presto pro nej asi prekladatele nepracovali zadarmo nebo dokonce tak, ze by za preklad platili.)

                          Tomas


                          > > _________________________________________________
                          > > 1c. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                          > > Posted by: "Tomas Mosler" tomas.mosler@... tomas_mosler
                          > > Date: Fri Nov 2, 2012 3:10 am ((PDT))
                          > >
                          > > Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                          > > prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:
                          > >
                          > > Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                          > > porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                          > > pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)
                          > >
                          > > A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                          > > (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                          > > poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                          > > nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)
                          > >
                          > > Tomas Mosler
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- Diana Krausova <diana@> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >> Ahoj ve skupine,
                          > >>
                          > >> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                          > > obdrzela od klienta:
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > >>
                          > >> Dear Diana,
                          > >>
                          > >> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                          > > BP project from English to Czech.
                          > >>
                          > >> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                          > >> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                          > >>
                          > >> Regarding a rate, although youâ•˙ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                          > > proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                          > > this project if you would be interested in?
                          > >> Iâ•˙m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                          > > this is a project for BP, and weâ•˙ve basically got a very small budget
                          > > for every BP project.
                          > >> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > >>
                          > >> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                          > > sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                          > > miliardach americkych dolaruâ•Å"
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> Diana
                          > >
                          > >
                          > CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                          > *****************************************
                          > tel: +1.248.787.8837
                          > fax: +1.248.629.6242
                          >
                          > Skype: czechtranslations
                          > email: diana@...
                          > dianakrausova@...
                          >
                        • Tomas Mosler
                          Romano, Vasi predstavu o fairni cene Vam neberu. Je-li x % prekladatelu spokojeno s Vami uvadenou sazbou, aspon nevznika konkurencni pretlak u skupiny
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Romano, Vasi predstavu o "fairni" cene Vam neberu. Je-li x % prekladatelu spokojeno s Vami uvadenou sazbou, aspon nevznika konkurencni pretlak u skupiny dalsich x % prekladatelu, kteri za korekturu uctuji treba dvojnasobek, atd.

                            Ale uplne nerozumim Vasemu nazoru o "nasi podpore agentur". To je snad prece vec te agentury, co a za kolik zadava a co slibuje, proc by to mel byt duvod k obhajobe levnych korektur (misto zadnych korektur), na coz doplati jen prekladatel?

                            Krome toho, stejne tak lze prece agentury poctive zajistujici korektury podporovat (provedenim te korektury) i treba za nasobek sazby.

                            Stejne tak nerozumim, proc se starate o niceni agentur (ale pritom ochotne nicite sebe, pokud pominu moznost, ze z nejakeho duvodu opravdu radeji pracujete za nizsi sazby nez za vyssi) - marze jsou jejich vec, pokud prekladatele za nejakou sazbu nebudou ochotni pracovat, je po problemu.

                            Tomas


                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Romana" <translators@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Milý Tomáši,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > pro agenturu, která mi dává překlady ke korektuře skoro každý den, považuji USD 25 za 1000 slov absolutně fairní cenu. Já pro takovou agenturu pracuji taky a dostávám 18 GBP (má sídlo v UK), což je asi na stejné úrovni.
                            >
                            > Můj názor je, že bychom měli podporovat agentury, které tyto dodatečné pracovní stupně dělají a za to platí. Bohužel existují stovky agentur, které tyto služby svým zákazníkům slibují, ale nenechávájí překlady zkontrolovat. To je v mých očích podvod na zákazníku.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Existují také agentury, které si prakticky dělají srandu z překladatelů tím, že jim nabízí něco jako tady: Nedávno mi kolegyně z Rakouska psala, ze nějaká nová agentura z Mnichova ji nabídla 0,025 EUR pro slovo za PŘEKLAD ... tak já jsem se u této agentury jen tak pro zajímavost představïla jako potenciální zákazkyně z Austrálie a požádala jsem o cenovou nabídku pro podobný překlad ... a agentura po mně chtěla 0,20 EUR pro slovo â€" OSMKRÁT tolik! Takové věci by se konečný zákazník měl dozvědět, a překladatelé by je taky měli vědět. Já radím každému, aby si u nových agentur vypátral ceny pro konečné zákazníky. Pokud Vám agentura chce platit méně než polovinu, tak ji zničte.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > S pozdravem
                            >
                            > Romana
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Mosler
                            > Sent: Friday, 2 November 2012 8:40 PM
                            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com; Preklady@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                            > prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:
                            >
                            > Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                            > porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                            > pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)
                            >
                            > A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                            > (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                            > poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                            > nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)
                            >
                            > Tomas Mosler
                            >
                            > --- Diana Krausova <diana@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Ahoj ve skupine,
                            > >
                            > > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                            > obdrzela od klienta:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > ----------------------------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > Dear Diana,
                            > >
                            > > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                            > BP project from English to Czech.
                            > >
                            > > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                            > > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                            > >
                            > > Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                            > proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                            > this project if you would be interested in?
                            > > I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                            > this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget
                            > for every BP project.
                            > > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > ----------------------------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                            > sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                            > miliardach americkych dolaru…
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Diana
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • ferstl@volny.cz
                            Martine, zrovna jsem mela rozepsan mail s naprosto stejnou myslenkou. Nase profese je v tom naprosto jedinecna. Kdyz si vezmu svou vlastní zkusenost - nedavno
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 3, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Martine, zrovna jsem mela rozepsan mail s naprosto stejnou myslenkou. Nase
                              profese je v tom naprosto jedinecna. Kdyz si vezmu svou vlastní zkusenost -
                              nedavno jsem pocitala, ze pouhych 5 % sve práce prodavam ceskym klientum, a
                              to jen z urcite slabosti a diky dlouholetym vztahum. Jako prekladatele se
                              nemusime se nikam premistovat, a pokud bychom tu potrebu meli, pak bych to
                              videla na nejaky romanticky domecek na plazi - jako nekolik mych znamych
                              prekladatelu, kterym odrostly deti.
                              Hezky sobotni podvecer
                              Lenka






                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Martin Janda
                              Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 5:58 PM
                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka

                              Ale no tak, Petre. Proc bychom se zvedali a ustupovali? Na rozdil od doktoru
                              nemusime byt nutne tam, kde potrebuji nasi praci a kde nam za ni plati, ne?
                              Mame tak docela kliku - maloktera jina profese muze skloubit zapadni
                              odmenovani s ceskymi zivotnimi naklady...

                              Martin


                              Dne 3.11.2012 16:03, Petr napsal(a):
                              >
                              > Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba
                              > posuzovat v kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR,
                              > vydelku srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to
                              > totez jako u lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k
                              > zapadnim sousedum (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy
                              > nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za
                              > nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky roman ...).
                              > Petr Adamek
                              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > hgeige@... wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > What was relevant to me was that while I could "sort of" support
                              > > myself working for Czech agencies in CR, I could not support myself
                              > > working
                              > for Czech
                              > > agencies from the U.S., due to different buying power.
                              > >
                              > > Of course a translations totaling CZK 15 000 will pay my rent (I
                              > assume)
                              > > in Prague, but this amount will not pay my rent in New York. That is
                              > all I
                              > > meant, and sorry if I haven't expressed myself clearly.
                              > >
                              > > What he/she refuses or not was not the issue I was putting forward.
                              > > Thanks, Tomas
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > In a message dated 11/2/2012 2:44:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                              > > tomas.mosler@... writes:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > I maintain that a Czech translator living abroad will not survive
                              > while
                              > > > working exclusively for Czech agencies, while a Czech translator
                              > living
                              > > in CR
                              > > > and working exclusively for Czech agencies could, I mean, not very
                              > well,
                              > > but
                              > > > pays his rent, or not?
                              > >
                              > > Perhaps, but how relevant is that? I mean, when such a Czech
                              > > translator gets paid xxxxx CZK a month and thinks, fine, this pays
                              > > my rent, is
                              > he bound
                              > > to politely refuse any better rates because he could - what horror -
                              > earn
                              > > some money extra? ;) (Or alternatively getting the same month
                              > income, but
                              > > having more free time.)
                              > >
                              > > Besides that, with the same logic Czech (or Eastern Europe)
                              > > producers should sell their products in Czech stores for 1/4 - 1/2
                              > > price
                              > (because it
                              > > should be sufficient to cover local rents) compared to Western
                              > prices of the
                              > > same product distributed over there, but somehow that is often not
                              > happenning.
                              > >
                              > > I mean, if Polish KitKat Chunky can cost 12 CZK / EUR 0.50 and
                              > > Western produced ( = better quality) KK Chunky costs EUR 0.60, or if
                              > > I can
                              > buy a bun
                              > > (roll) in Germany for approx. EUR 0.10 and here for the same price,
                              > > something is wrong with the "pay rent scheme".
                              > >
                              > > Tomas
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >



                              ------------------------------------






                              Yahoo! Groups Links



                              -----
                              Zpráva neobsahuje viry.
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                              Verze: 2012.0.2221 / Virová báze: 2441/5370 - Datum vydání: 2.11.2012
                            • ferstl@volny.cz
                              Jeste bych chtela v této souvislosti zminit jeden aspekt prace v Cechach a pro zahranicni klienty. Pokud vezmeme v uvahu preklady velkych jazyku, jako je
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 4, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Jeste bych chtela v této souvislosti zminit jeden aspekt prace v Cechach a
                                pro zahranicni klienty.
                                Pokud vezmeme v uvahu preklady "velkych" jazyku, jako je anglictina, nemcina
                                atd., konkurence v Cechach je velika, v ruzne kvalite, zamereni atd.
                                Jestlize vsak takovy prekladatel pracuje pro zahranicniho klienta, razem se
                                z nej stava prekladatel "exotickeho" jazyka, coz ma dle meho také vliv na
                                vysledne sazby.
                                Hezkou nedeli preji
                                Lenka


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                Of Tomas Mosler
                                Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 11:58 PM
                                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka



                                Prekladatele "ustoupit" maji kam, o tom uz psal Martin, pouze (nekteri)
                                mozna nemaji odvahu - a nakonec nekteri jsou mozna i spokojeni a radeji nez
                                sobe daji vic vydelat agenture. (Nic proti altruismu, ale myslim, ze zrovna
                                v teto oblasti to neni uplne idealni pristup.)

                                Myslim, ze cena prace (zamerne nepisu plat, protoze prekladatelu s platem je
                                podle me malo) prekladatele-zivnostnika se neda nacpat do nejakych tabulek a
                                prumeru, ale odviji se (i) od toho, jakou odmenu povazuje kazdy jednotlive v
                                ramci volneho trhu za svou praci za adekvatni.

                                Jinak co se tyka nakladu, Vase myslenka "kontextu nakladu" nefunguje ani v
                                jinych oborech. Pokud dokazete nakupovat ceske potraviny za tretinovou cenu
                                oproti zapadnim pri srovnatelne kvalite, prosim napiste mi, kde to je. Ja
                                spis znam ceske potraviny za mozna nizsi cenu, ale take v nizsi kvalite.

                                Podobne je to i u dovazenych polozek. (Nakonec i software atd. pro
                                prekladatele se - tusim s vyjimkou Wordfastu a castecne Tradosu, kdy to ale
                                rozhodne neni 1/3 zapadnich cen - neprodava za "ceske" ceny; ostatne jak to,
                                ze clenstvi v nekterych zahranicnich asociacich stoji podobne penize jako
                                treba v JTP [a pritom je to trochu jiny servis].)

                                A plati to take u zbozi, ktere se vyrabi u nas, ale je dostupne i jinde.
                                Napriklad cena eletriny, ktera je na evropske urovni. Nebo (toto uz jsem
                                psal na Prekladech): Jak to, ze se Peugeoty vyrobene v Koline neprodavaji v
                                CR za tretinovou cenu oproti cene (tychz levne vyrobenych vozu z Kolina) ve
                                Francii? A takovych prikladu by bylo vice, nejde zdaleka jen o "zbytny"
                                automobil.

                                Jestlize tedy zdaleka neplati "na ceskem trhu ceske ceny", proc by potom
                                prekladatele meli byt nejaci otloukankove, "protoze nejaky prumer"? Jini
                                podnikatele se tim take neridi a chteji prodavat zbozi a sluzby
                                hypotetickemu prekladateli s 1/3 prijmem za cenu stejnou jako jinde.

                                Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, nerikam, ze vsechno vsude stoji stejne, na
                                Zapade jsou IMHO drazsi hlavne sluzby a pojisteni, ale spis chci rict, ze se
                                tam (jen priklad) 3x vic vydelava, i kdyz ne vse stoji 3x vic. Proc by tedy
                                i prekladatel v CR nemohl vydelavat napr. 3x vic, i kdyz ne vse v CR stoji
                                3x vic ( = stejne jako "na Zapade")?

                                Jeste pro srovnani porovani prijmu v parite kupni sily (tedy co si lze
                                koupit):
                                http://www.finance.cz/zpravy/finance/369199-kde-se-zije-za-prumernou-mzdu-ne
                                jlepe-/

                                Nebo toto:
                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
                                (Tipuji, ze prumerny prekladatel v Nemecku vydela vice nez 33 % (80/107)
                                navic oproti prumernemu prekladateli v Cesku.)

                                Tomas Mosler

                                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                "Petr" <padamek@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba posuzovat v
                                kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR, vydelku
                                srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to totez jako u
                                lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k zapadnim sousedum
                                (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u
                                nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky
                                roman ...).
                                > Petr Adamek




                                ________________________________

                                Zpráva neobsahuje viry.
                                Zkontrolováno AVG - www.avg.cz
                                Verze: 2012.0.2221 / Virová báze: 2441/5371 - Datum vydání: 3.11.2012
                              • Jakub Skrebsky
                                Lenko, v zasade souhlasim. Asi pred 6 lety jsem nahodou zjistil, ze pokud umim prekladat z anglictiny a ziju v Cechach, neni to nic zvlastniho. Pokud se
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 4, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Lenko, v zasade souhlasim. Asi pred 6 lety jsem nahodou zjistil, ze pokud umim prekladat z anglictiny a ziju v Cechach, neni to nic zvlastniho. Pokud se stejnou kvalifikaci ziju v UK, jsem automaticky povazovan za specialistu. To mi tehdy dodalo odvahu vydat se na volnou nohu.
                                  Jenze agentury i primi klienti uz davno zjistili, ze se vyplati najmout si prekladatele z vychodu. Stejne hledaji lidi online a zadavani zakazek take probiha vetsinou e-mailem. Misto pobytu prekladatele tak stale hraje vyraznou roli, ale nyni opacnou. Cim dale na vychod, tim lepe. Takze ikdyz ziju v UK, jsem postupne tlacen dolu na vychodni ceny. Jedinou obranou je soustredit se na konzervativni klienty, kteri jeste neobjevili globalni outsourcing/crowdsourcing. Krome toho v UK platim mnohem vyssi dane, protoze zde neexistuje nakladovy pausal.
                                  Vetsina mych zdejsich kolegu, prekladajicich mezi AJ a vychodoevropskymi jazyky, zustava v UK spise z osobnich/rodinnych duvodu.

                                  Jakub

                                  On 4 Nov 2012, at 08:48, <ferstl@...> <ferstl@...> wrote:

                                  > Jeste bych chtela v této souvislosti zminit jeden aspekt prace v Cechach a
                                  > pro zahranicni klienty.
                                  > Pokud vezmeme v uvahu preklady "velkych" jazyku, jako je anglictina, nemcina
                                  > atd., konkurence v Cechach je velika, v ruzne kvalite, zamereni atd.
                                  > Jestlize vsak takovy prekladatel pracuje pro zahranicniho klienta, razem se
                                  > z nej stava prekladatel "exotickeho" jazyka, coz ma dle meho také vliv na
                                  > vysledne sazby.
                                  > Hezkou nedeli preji
                                  > Lenka
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  > Of Tomas Mosler
                                  > Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 11:58 PM
                                  > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Prekladatele "ustoupit" maji kam, o tom uz psal Martin, pouze (nekteri)
                                  > mozna nemaji odvahu - a nakonec nekteri jsou mozna i spokojeni a radeji nez
                                  > sobe daji vic vydelat agenture. (Nic proti altruismu, ale myslim, ze zrovna
                                  > v teto oblasti to neni uplne idealni pristup.)
                                  >
                                  > Myslim, ze cena prace (zamerne nepisu plat, protoze prekladatelu s platem je
                                  > podle me malo) prekladatele-zivnostnika se neda nacpat do nejakych tabulek a
                                  > prumeru, ale odviji se (i) od toho, jakou odmenu povazuje kazdy jednotlive v
                                  > ramci volneho trhu za svou praci za adekvatni.
                                  >
                                  > Jinak co se tyka nakladu, Vase myslenka "kontextu nakladu" nefunguje ani v
                                  > jinych oborech. Pokud dokazete nakupovat ceske potraviny za tretinovou cenu
                                  > oproti zapadnim pri srovnatelne kvalite, prosim napiste mi, kde to je. Ja
                                  > spis znam ceske potraviny za mozna nizsi cenu, ale take v nizsi kvalite.
                                  >
                                  > Podobne je to i u dovazenych polozek. (Nakonec i software atd. pro
                                  > prekladatele se - tusim s vyjimkou Wordfastu a castecne Tradosu, kdy to ale
                                  > rozhodne neni 1/3 zapadnich cen - neprodava za "ceske" ceny; ostatne jak to,
                                  > ze clenstvi v nekterych zahranicnich asociacich stoji podobne penize jako
                                  > treba v JTP [a pritom je to trochu jiny servis].)
                                  >
                                  > A plati to take u zbozi, ktere se vyrabi u nas, ale je dostupne i jinde.
                                  > Napriklad cena eletriny, ktera je na evropske urovni. Nebo (toto uz jsem
                                  > psal na Prekladech): Jak to, ze se Peugeoty vyrobene v Koline neprodavaji v
                                  > CR za tretinovou cenu oproti cene (tychz levne vyrobenych vozu z Kolina) ve
                                  > Francii? A takovych prikladu by bylo vice, nejde zdaleka jen o "zbytny"
                                  > automobil.
                                  >
                                  > Jestlize tedy zdaleka neplati "na ceskem trhu ceske ceny", proc by potom
                                  > prekladatele meli byt nejaci otloukankove, "protoze nejaky prumer"? Jini
                                  > podnikatele se tim take neridi a chteji prodavat zbozi a sluzby
                                  > hypotetickemu prekladateli s 1/3 prijmem za cenu stejnou jako jinde.
                                  >
                                  > Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, nerikam, ze vsechno vsude stoji stejne, na
                                  > Zapade jsou IMHO drazsi hlavne sluzby a pojisteni, ale spis chci rict, ze se
                                  > tam (jen priklad) 3x vic vydelava, i kdyz ne vse stoji 3x vic. Proc by tedy
                                  > i prekladatel v CR nemohl vydelavat napr. 3x vic, i kdyz ne vse v CR stoji
                                  > 3x vic ( = stejne jako "na Zapade")?
                                  >
                                  > Jeste pro srovnani porovani prijmu v parite kupni sily (tedy co si lze
                                  > koupit):
                                  > http://www.finance.cz/zpravy/finance/369199-kde-se-zije-za-prumernou-mzdu-ne
                                  > jlepe-/
                                  >
                                  > Nebo toto:
                                  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
                                  > (Tipuji, ze prumerny prekladatel v Nemecku vydela vice nez 33 % (80/107)
                                  > navic oproti prumernemu prekladateli v Cesku.)
                                  >
                                  > Tomas Mosler
                                  >
                                  > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                  > "Petr" <padamek@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba posuzovat v
                                  > kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR, vydelku
                                  > srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to totez jako u
                                  > lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k zapadnim sousedum
                                  > (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u
                                  > nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky
                                  > roman ...).
                                  >> Petr Adamek
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  > Zpráva neobsahuje viry.
                                  > Zkontrolováno AVG - www.avg.cz
                                  > Verze: 2012.0.2221 / Virová báze: 2441/5371 - Datum vydání: 3.11.2012
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • Sarka Rubkova
                                  Svym zoùsobem má¹ asi pravdu - ale jako obvykle neplatí to v¾dy. sarka ... From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Nov 5, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Svym zoůsobem máš asi pravdu - ale jako obvykle neplatí to vždy.
                                    sarka

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                    Of Martin Janda
                                    Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 1:13 PM
                                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka

                                    It depends Sarka, butwith large technical project, say 15k +, often it is.
                                    Once you finetune your CAT tool and your brain to the text and style
                                    - and establish the core terminology - things are much easier with most
                                    technical projects I have seen. Plus, you will most likely get hundreds or
                                    even thousands of internal match words that get paid at the full rate.
                                    (Unless you accept wordcounts from Logoport, for instance.)

                                    Sure, I am talking about technical texts such as manual, not literature.

                                    The other thing is that clients offering such large projects often expect
                                    very deep discounts - often much deeper than what is reasonable and
                                    appropriate to the working time saved. You might save 10-20% of time but
                                    they require a 50% cut.

                                    Martin




                                    Dne 2.11.2012 12:55, Sarka Rubkova napsal(a):
                                    > Is it that easier to justify any discount?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > sarka
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    > Behalf Of Tomas Mosler
                                    > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point
                                    > Jamie, and I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little
                                    > money", I have no problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as
                                    > requested by that LSP) for individual jobs over 10k words.
                                    >
                                    > My reasons are:
                                    > - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in
                                    > case of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x
                                    > 1k job for
                                    > 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same
                                    > client as one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)
                                    >
                                    > - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time
                                    >
                                    > In other words, it is more efficient.
                                    >
                                    > Tomas
                                    >
                                    > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > , James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                                    >> How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                                    >>
                                    >> This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I
                                    >> tell
                                    > students in training sessions and translation classes that volume
                                    > discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator
                                    > can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over
                                    > more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they
                                    > fall for the trick sometimes.
                                    >> Jamie
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
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