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Neodolatelna nabidka

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  • Diana Krausova
    Ahoj ve skupine, ... Dear Diana, We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a BP project from English to Czech. It contains 7155 words
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 31, 2012
      Ahoj ve skupine,

      chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili obdrzela od klienta:

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Dear Diana,

      We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a BP project from English to Czech.

      It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
      You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.

      Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for this project if you would be interested in?
      I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above, this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget for every BP project.
      But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.

      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v miliardach americkych dolaru…


      Diana


      CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
      *****************************************
      tel: +1.248.787.8837
      fax: +1.248.629.6242

      Skype: czechtranslations
      email: diana@...
      dianakrausova@...
    • James Kirchner
      How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP. This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the volume discount . I tell students in training sessions
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 31, 2012
        How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.

        This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.

        Jamie

        On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:

        > Ahoj ve skupine,
        >
        > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili obdrzela od klienta:
        >
        > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > Dear Diana,
        >
        > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a BP project from English to Czech.
        >
        > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
        > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
        >
        > Regarding a rate, although you've given us USD 25 / 1000 words for proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for this project if you would be interested in?
        > I'm aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above, this is a project for BP, and we've basically got a very small budget for every BP project.
        > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
        >
        > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v miliardach americkych dolaru...
        >
        >
        > Diana
        >
        >
        > CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
        > *****************************************
        > tel: +1.248.787.8837
        > fax: +1.248.629.6242
        >
        > Skype: czechtranslations
        > email: diana@...
        > dianakrausova@...
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > Czechlist mailing list
        > Czechlist@...
        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


        _______________________________________________
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      • James Kirchner
        In the Czech Republic, when a fresh coat of wet paint is put on something like a park bench, etc., they don t put a sign on it that says Wet Paint , like they
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 31, 2012
          In the Czech Republic, when a fresh coat of wet paint is put on something like a park bench, etc., they don't put a sign on it that says "Wet Paint", like they do in the US. They take a stiff wire, twist it around a piece of paper towel or something, so that it looks like a bow tie, and they let the thing stick out from whatever has been painted.

          Is there a name for that little thing?

          Jamie


          _______________________________________________
          Czechlist mailing list
          Czechlist@...
          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        • wustpisk
          Bazmek http://necyklopedie.wikia.com/wiki/Bazmek
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 31, 2012
            Bazmek

            http://necyklopedie.wikia.com/wiki/Bazmek

            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
            >
            > In the Czech Republic, when a fresh coat of wet paint is put on something like a park bench, etc., they don't put a sign on it that says "Wet Paint", like they do in the US. They take a stiff wire, twist it around a piece of paper towel or something, so that it looks like a bow tie, and they let the thing stick out from whatever has been painted.
            >
            > Is there a name for that little thing?
            >
            > Jamie
            >
            >
            > _______________________________________________
            > Czechlist mailing list
            > Czechlist@...
            > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            >
          • Sarka Rubkova
            Babrle sarka ... From: czechlist-bounces@czechlist.org [mailto:czechlist-bounces@czechlist.org] On Behalf Of James Kirchner Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 31, 2012
              Babrle

              sarka

              -----Original Message-----
              From: czechlist-bounces@... [mailto:czechlist-bounces@...] On Behalf Of James Kirchner
              Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:39 AM
              To: czechlist@...
              Subject: [Czechlist]"Wet paint" thing

              In the Czech Republic, when a fresh coat of wet paint is put on something like a park bench, etc., they don't put a sign on it that says "Wet Paint", like they do in the US. They take a stiff wire, twist it around a piece of paper towel or something, so that it looks like a bow tie, and they let the thing stick out from whatever has been painted.

              Is there a name for that little thing?

              Jamie


              _______________________________________________
              Czechlist mailing list
              Czechlist@...
              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


              _______________________________________________
              Czechlist mailing list
              Czechlist@...
              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            • Petr
              Ze to jsou babrlata , uz tu bylo receno. Jenom bych dodal, ze ani napisy Pozor, cerstve natreno tu nejsou tak uplna exotika. Petr Adamek
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 1, 2012
                Ze to jsou "babrlata", uz tu bylo receno.
                Jenom bych dodal, ze ani napisy "Pozor, cerstve natreno" tu nejsou tak uplna exotika.
                Petr Adamek

                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                >
                > In the Czech Republic, when a fresh coat of wet paint is put on something like a park bench, etc., they don't put a sign on it that says "Wet Paint", like they do in the US. They take a stiff wire, twist it around a piece of paper towel or something, so that it looks like a bow tie, and they let the thing stick out from whatever has been painted.
                >
                > Is there a name for that little thing?
                >
                > Jamie
                >
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > Czechlist mailing list
                > Czechlist@...
                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                >
              • Melvyn
                ... Not going to argue with this babrle thing for a moment, but you do also see cerstve natreno .
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 1, 2012
                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > In the Czech Republic, when a fresh coat of wet paint is put on something like a park bench, etc., they don't put a sign on it that says "Wet Paint", like they do in the US.

                  Not going to argue with this babrle thing for a moment, but you do also see "cerstve natreno".

                  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lavi%C4%8Dka,_pozor_%C4%8Derstv%C4%9B_nat%C5%99eno.jpg

                  Some more signs you know and love:

                  Pozor - zly pes -- Beware of the dog (though "attention, the evil dog" sounds quite forbidding :-).

                  Neklopit! -- This side up

                  Zivotu nebezpecno! -- Danger!

                  Nepovolanym vstup zakazan -- No admittance except on business

                  Pozor schod -- Mind the step

                  Pozor na mezeru -- Mind the gap VIZ
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/5903

                  BR

                  M.
                • Diana Krausova
                  Hi Jamie, It certainly could be the LSP. But I completed a couple of jobs for this particular client in the past and they accepted my standard rates both
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 1, 2012
                    Hi Jamie,

                    It certainly could be the LSP. But I completed a couple of jobs for this particular client in the past and they accepted my standard rates both times. Hence my surprise...

                    Diana

                    CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                    *****************************************
                    tel: +1.248.787.8837
                    fax: +1.248.629.6242

                    Skype: czechtranslations
                    email: diana@...
                    dianakrausova@...

                    On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Czechlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                    >
                    > ________________________________________________________________________
                    > 1b. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                    > Posted by: "James Kirchner" czechlist@... tomas.cejka
                    > Date: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:36 pm ((PDT))
                    >
                    > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                    >
                    > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.
                    >
                    > Jamie
                    >
                    > On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:
                    >
                    >> Ahoj ve skupine,
                    >>
                    >> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili obdrzela od klienta:
                    >>
                    >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Dear Diana,
                    >>
                    >> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a BP project from English to Czech.
                    >>
                    >> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                    >> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                    >>
                    >> Regarding a rate, although you've given us USD 25 / 1000 words for proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for this project if you would be interested in?
                    >> I'm aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above, this is a project for BP, and we've basically got a very small budget for every BP project.
                    >> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                    >>
                    >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v miliardach americkych dolaru...
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Diana
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                    >> *****************************************
                    >> tel: +1.248.787.8837
                    >> fax: +1.248.629.6242
                    >>
                    >> Skype: czechtranslations
                    >> email: diana@...
                    >> dianakrausova@...
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                  • James Kirchner
                    Then they re probably being squeezed by the client. The funny thing is that they couldn t easily get a competent monolingual English proofreader for what they
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 1, 2012
                      Then they're probably being squeezed by the client. The funny thing is that they couldn't easily get a competent monolingual English proofreader for what they want to pay you.

                      I've seen in companies where I worked before I was a translator that my colleagues' concept of quality control when right out the window once the project went into translation. At those companies, even if they had an employee who would know how to manage an outsourced translation project, that person usually wasn't put in charge of it. It usually went to an ignorant person who wanted to increase his fabulosity by being associated with something "international". Inevitably, the quality ended up being horrible, but nobody actually cared, because the project had been "successfully completed" at the price they wanted.

                      Sometimes all they care about is who ends up with legal liability. At one ad agency they wound up with a brochure that was so garbled that it would have publicly humiliated the enormous, very important corporate client. I kept alerting the account executives and others to this, but the most common response was something like, "The translation house said they'd be liable for that." I'd ask, "But do you knowingly want it to go through that way?" There was no answer.

                      Jamie

                      On Nov 1, 2012, at 5:12 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:

                      > Hi Jamie,
                      >
                      > It certainly could be the LSP. But I completed a couple of jobs for this particular client in the past and they accepted my standard rates both times. Hence my surprise...
                      >
                      > Diana
                      >
                      > CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                      > *****************************************
                      > tel: +1.248.787.8837
                      > fax: +1.248.629.6242
                      >
                      > Skype: czechtranslations
                      > email: diana@...
                      > dianakrausova@...
                      >
                      > On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Czechlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                      >
                      >>
                      >> ________________________________________________________________________
                      >> 1b. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                      >> Posted by: "James Kirchner" czechlist@... tomas.cejka
                      >> Date: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:36 pm ((PDT))
                      >>
                      >> How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                      >>
                      >> This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.
                      >>
                      >> Jamie
                      >>
                      >> On Oct 31, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Diana Krausova wrote:
                      >>
                      >>> Ahoj ve skupine,
                      >>>
                      >>> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili obdrzela od klienta:
                      >>>
                      >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>>
                      >>> Dear Diana,
                      >>>
                      >>> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a BP project from English to Czech.
                      >>>
                      >>> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                      >>> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                      >>>
                      >>> Regarding a rate, although you've given us USD 25 / 1000 words for proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for this project if you would be interested in?
                      >>> I'm aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above, this is a project for BP, and we've basically got a very small budget for every BP project.
                      >>> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                      >>>
                      >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>>
                      >>> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v miliardach americkych dolaru...
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Diana
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                      >>> *****************************************
                      >>> tel: +1.248.787.8837
                      >>> fax: +1.248.629.6242
                      >>>
                      >>> Skype: czechtranslations
                      >>> email: diana@...
                      >>> dianakrausova@...
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > _______________________________________________
                      > Czechlist mailing list
                      > Czechlist@...
                      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                      _______________________________________________
                      Czechlist mailing list
                      Czechlist@...
                      http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    • Tomas Mosler
                      Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec: Zijete v USA a delate korektury
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                        Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                        prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:

                        Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                        porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                        pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)

                        A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                        (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                        poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                        nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)

                        Tomas Mosler


                        --- Diana Krausova <diana@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Ahoj ve skupine,
                        >
                        > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                        obdrzela od klienta:
                        >
                        >
                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Dear Diana,
                        >
                        > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                        BP project from English to Czech.
                        >
                        > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                        > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                        >
                        > Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                        proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                        this project if you would be interested in?
                        > I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                        this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget
                        for every BP project.
                        > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                        >
                        >
                        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                        sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                        miliardach americkych dolaru…
                        >
                        >
                        > Diana
                      • Tomas Mosler
                        In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and I also don t like the trick of many jobs for little money , I have no problem in
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                          In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP) for individual jobs over 10k words.

                          My reasons are:
                          - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)

                          - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time

                          In other words, it is more efficient.

                          Tomas


                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                          >
                          > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick sometimes.
                          >
                          > Jamie
                        • Romana
                          Milý Tomáši, pro agenturu, která mi dává překlady ke korektuře skoro každý den, považuji USD 25 za 1000 slov absolutně fairní cenu. Já pro
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                            Milý Tomáši,



                            pro agenturu, která mi dává překlady ke korektuře skoro každý den, považuji USD 25 za 1000 slov absolutně fairní cenu. Já pro takovou agenturu pracuji taky a dostávám 18 GBP (má sídlo v UK), což je asi na stejné úrovni.

                            Můj názor je, že bychom měli podporovat agentury, které tyto dodatečné pracovní stupně dělají a za to platí. Bohužel existují stovky agentur, které tyto služby svým zákazníkům slibují, ale nenechávájí překlady zkontrolovat. To je v mých očích podvod na zákazníku.



                            Existují také agentury, které si prakticky dělají srandu z překladatelů tím, že jim nabízí něco jako tady: Nedávno mi kolegyně z Rakouska psala, ze nějaká nová agentura z Mnichova ji nabídla 0,025 EUR pro slovo za PŘEKLAD ... tak já jsem se u této agentury jen tak pro zajímavost představïla jako potenciální zákazkyně z Austrálie a požádala jsem o cenovou nabídku pro podobný překlad ... a agentura po mně chtěla 0,20 EUR pro slovo – OSMKRÁT tolik! Takové věci by se konečný zákazník měl dozvědět, a překladatelé by je taky měli vědět. Já radím každému, aby si u nových agentur vypátral ceny pro konečné zákazníky. Pokud Vám agentura chce platit méně než polovinu, tak ji zničte.



                            S pozdravem

                            Romana





                            From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Mosler
                            Sent: Friday, 2 November 2012 8:40 PM
                            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com; Preklady@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka





                            Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                            prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:

                            Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                            porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                            pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)

                            A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                            (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                            poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                            nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)

                            Tomas Mosler

                            --- Diana Krausova <diana@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Ahoj ve skupine,
                            >
                            > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                            obdrzela od klienta:
                            >
                            >
                            ----------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Dear Diana,
                            >
                            > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                            BP project from English to Czech.
                            >
                            > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                            > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                            >
                            > Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                            proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                            this project if you would be interested in?
                            > I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                            this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget
                            for every BP project.
                            > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                            >
                            >
                            ----------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                            sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                            miliardach americkych dolaru…
                            >
                            >
                            > Diana





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Sarka Rubkova
                            Is it that easier to justify any discount? sarka From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Mosler Sent: Friday,
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                              Is it that easier to justify any discount?



                              sarka



                              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Tomas Mosler
                              Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka





                              In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and
                              I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no
                              problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP)
                              for individual jobs over 10k words.

                              My reasons are:
                              - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case
                              of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for
                              10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as
                              one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)

                              - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time

                              In other words, it is more efficient.

                              Tomas

                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                              James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                              >
                              > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell
                              students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts
                              are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself
                              cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However,
                              people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick
                              sometimes.
                              >
                              > Jamie





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Martin Janda
                              It depends Sarka, butwith large technical project, say 15k +, often it is. Once you finetune your CAT tool and your brain to the text and style - and establish
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                                It depends Sarka, butwith large technical project, say 15k +, often it
                                is. Once you finetune your CAT tool and your brain to the text and style
                                - and establish the core terminology - things are much easier with most
                                technical projects I have seen. Plus, you will most likely get hundreds
                                or even thousands of internal match words that get paid at the full
                                rate. (Unless you accept wordcounts from Logoport, for instance.)

                                Sure, I am talking about technical texts such as manual, not literature.

                                The other thing is that clients offering such large projects often
                                expect very deep discounts - often much deeper than what is reasonable
                                and appropriate to the working time saved. You might save 10-20% of time
                                but they require a 50% cut.

                                Martin




                                Dne 2.11.2012 12:55, Sarka Rubkova napsal(a):
                                > Is it that easier to justify any discount?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > sarka
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                > Of Tomas Mosler
                                > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and
                                > I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no
                                > problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP)
                                > for individual jobs over 10k words.
                                >
                                > My reasons are:
                                > - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case
                                > of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for
                                > 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as
                                > one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)
                                >
                                > - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time
                                >
                                > In other words, it is more efficient.
                                >
                                > Tomas
                                >
                                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                > James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                                >> How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                                >>
                                >> This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell
                                > students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts
                                > are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself
                                > cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However,
                                > people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick
                                > sometimes.
                                >> Jamie
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Tomas Mosler
                                I m not sure I understand your point, can you elaborate a bit? Thanks. Either way, I didn t write about any discount. Tomas
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                                  I'm not sure I understand your point, can you elaborate a bit? Thanks.

                                  Either way, I didn't write about "any" discount.

                                  Tomas


                                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sarka Rubkova" <sarka@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Is it that easier to justify any discount?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > sarka
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  > Of Tomas Mosler
                                  > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                                  > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point Jamie, and
                                  > I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little money", I have no
                                  > problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as requested by that LSP)
                                  > for individual jobs over 10k words.
                                  >
                                  > My reasons are:
                                  > - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in case
                                  > of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x 1k job for
                                  > 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same client as
                                  > one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)
                                  >
                                  > - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time
                                  >
                                  > In other words, it is more efficient.
                                  >
                                  > Tomas
                                  >
                                  > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                  > James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                                  > >
                                  > > This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I tell
                                  > students in training sessions and translation classes that volume discounts
                                  > are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator can't sell himself
                                  > cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over more units. However,
                                  > people are ignorant of basic economics, so they fall for the trick
                                  > sometimes.
                                  > >
                                  > > Jamie
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Diana Krausova
                                  Tomasi, ano, ziju v USA, ale ceny nepodsekavam. Ta sazba, kterou mela agentura v databazi je zhruba 10 let stara, tudiz neplatna. Lacine zakazky rovnez
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                                    Tomasi,

                                    ano, ziju v USA, ale ceny nepodsekavam. Ta sazba, kterou mela agentura v databazi je zhruba 10 let stara, tudiz neplatna. Lacine zakazky rovnez odmitam :)

                                    A BP prave vykazala zisk: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/31/business/global/bp-returns-to-profitability-and-raises-dividend.html

                                    Hezky den,
                                    Diana


                                    > _________________________________________________
                                    > 1c. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                    > Posted by: "Tomas Mosler" tomas.mosler@... tomas_mosler
                                    > Date: Fri Nov 2, 2012 3:10 am ((PDT))
                                    >
                                    > Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                                    > prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:
                                    >
                                    > Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                                    > porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                                    > pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)
                                    >
                                    > A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                                    > (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                                    > poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                                    > nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)
                                    >
                                    > Tomas Mosler
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- Diana Krausova <diana@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> Ahoj ve skupine,
                                    >>
                                    >> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                                    > obdrzela od klienta:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >>
                                    >> Dear Diana,
                                    >>
                                    >> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                                    > BP project from English to Czech.
                                    >>
                                    >> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                                    >> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                                    >>
                                    >> Regarding a rate, although youâ•˙ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                                    > proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                                    > this project if you would be interested in?
                                    >> Iâ•˙m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                                    > this is a project for BP, and weâ•˙ve basically got a very small budget
                                    > for every BP project.
                                    >> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >>
                                    >> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                                    > sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                                    > miliardach americkych dolaru╜
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Diana
                                    >
                                    >
                                    CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                                    *****************************************
                                    tel: +1.248.787.8837
                                    fax: +1.248.629.6242

                                    Skype: czechtranslations
                                    email: diana@...
                                    dianakrausova@...
                                  • Tomas Mosler
                                    ... Vyborne (ono to z toho e-mailu nebylo poznat, puvodni sazbu jste nekomentovala a navic kdyz jste psala, ze jste pro ne neco delala). ... Jiste, to jsem
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                                      > ano, ziju v USA, ale ceny nepodsekavam. Ta sazba, kterou mela agentura v databazi je zhruba 10 let stara, tudiz neplatna. Lacine zakazky rovnez odmitam :)

                                      Vyborne (ono to z toho e-mailu nebylo poznat, puvodni sazbu jste nekomentovala a navic kdyz jste psala, ze jste pro ne neco delala).


                                      > A BP prave vykazala zisk

                                      Jiste, to jsem nezpochybnoval, pouze nerozumim te logice, ze klient jako by mel platit za jednotku sluzby v zavislosti na vysi sveho zisku... (Napr. Microsoft mel ve druhem ctvrtleti kalendarniho roku 2012 cistou ztratu, presto pro nej asi prekladatele nepracovali zadarmo nebo dokonce tak, ze by za preklad platili.)

                                      Tomas


                                      > > _________________________________________________
                                      > > 1c. Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                      > > Posted by: "Tomas Mosler" tomas.mosler@... tomas_mosler
                                      > > Date: Fri Nov 2, 2012 3:10 am ((PDT))
                                      > >
                                      > > Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                                      > > prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:
                                      > >
                                      > > Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                                      > > porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                                      > > pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)
                                      > >
                                      > > A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                                      > > (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                                      > > poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                                      > > nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)
                                      > >
                                      > > Tomas Mosler
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- Diana Krausova <diana@> wrote:
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Ahoj ve skupine,
                                      > >>
                                      > >> chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                                      > > obdrzela od klienta:
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Dear Diana,
                                      > >>
                                      > >> We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                                      > > BP project from English to Czech.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                                      > >> You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Regarding a rate, although youâ•˙ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                                      > > proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                                      > > this project if you would be interested in?
                                      > >> Iâ•˙m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                                      > > this is a project for BP, and weâ•˙ve basically got a very small budget
                                      > > for every BP project.
                                      > >> But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                                      > > sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                                      > > miliardach americkych dolaruâ•Å"
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Diana
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > CZECHTRANSLATIONS.COM
                                      > *****************************************
                                      > tel: +1.248.787.8837
                                      > fax: +1.248.629.6242
                                      >
                                      > Skype: czechtranslations
                                      > email: diana@...
                                      > dianakrausova@...
                                      >
                                    • Tomas Mosler
                                      Romano, Vasi predstavu o fairni cene Vam neberu. Je-li x % prekladatelu spokojeno s Vami uvadenou sazbou, aspon nevznika konkurencni pretlak u skupiny
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Nov 2, 2012
                                        Romano, Vasi predstavu o "fairni" cene Vam neberu. Je-li x % prekladatelu spokojeno s Vami uvadenou sazbou, aspon nevznika konkurencni pretlak u skupiny dalsich x % prekladatelu, kteri za korekturu uctuji treba dvojnasobek, atd.

                                        Ale uplne nerozumim Vasemu nazoru o "nasi podpore agentur". To je snad prece vec te agentury, co a za kolik zadava a co slibuje, proc by to mel byt duvod k obhajobe levnych korektur (misto zadnych korektur), na coz doplati jen prekladatel?

                                        Krome toho, stejne tak lze prece agentury poctive zajistujici korektury podporovat (provedenim te korektury) i treba za nasobek sazby.

                                        Stejne tak nerozumim, proc se starate o niceni agentur (ale pritom ochotne nicite sebe, pokud pominu moznost, ze z nejakeho duvodu opravdu radeji pracujete za nizsi sazby nez za vyssi) - marze jsou jejich vec, pokud prekladatele za nejakou sazbu nebudou ochotni pracovat, je po problemu.

                                        Tomas


                                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Romana" <translators@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Milý Tomáši,
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > pro agenturu, která mi dává překlady ke korektuře skoro každý den, považuji USD 25 za 1000 slov absolutně fairní cenu. Já pro takovou agenturu pracuji taky a dostávám 18 GBP (má sídlo v UK), což je asi na stejné úrovni.
                                        >
                                        > Můj názor je, že bychom měli podporovat agentury, které tyto dodatečné pracovní stupně dělají a za to platí. Bohužel existují stovky agentur, které tyto služby svým zákazníkům slibují, ale nenechávájí překlady zkontrolovat. To je v mých očích podvod na zákazníku.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Existují také agentury, které si prakticky dělají srandu z překladatelů tím, že jim nabízí něco jako tady: Nedávno mi kolegyně z Rakouska psala, ze nějaká nová agentura z Mnichova ji nabídla 0,025 EUR pro slovo za PŘEKLAD ... tak já jsem se u této agentury jen tak pro zajímavost představïla jako potenciální zákazkyně z Austrálie a požádala jsem o cenovou nabídku pro podobný překlad ... a agentura po mně chtěla 0,20 EUR pro slovo â€" OSMKRÁT tolik! Takové věci by se konečný zákazník měl dozvědět, a překladatelé by je taky měli vědět. Já radím každému, aby si u nových agentur vypátral ceny pro konečné zákazníky. Pokud Vám agentura chce platit méně než polovinu, tak ji zničte.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > S pozdravem
                                        >
                                        > Romana
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Mosler
                                        > Sent: Friday, 2 November 2012 8:40 PM
                                        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com; Preklady@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Spis nez zisky BP (se stejnou logikou byste za praci pro momentalne
                                        > prodelecnou firmu musela jeste platit) me zarazi jina vec:
                                        >
                                        > Zijete v USA a delate korektury (nedelam si iluze, ze by soucasti nebylo
                                        > porovnani s originalem) za 0.025 USD? (A navzdory tomu se jeste
                                        > pozastavujete nad nabidkou 0.016 USD.)
                                        >
                                        > A ja doted myslel, ze ceny podsekavaji jen prekladatele v Cesku.
                                        > (Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, klidne si je podsekavejte, jen tento
                                        > poznatek povazuji za novy kaminek do mozaiky duvodu maleho odhodlani
                                        > nekterych kolegu v CR se na lacine joby vykaslat.)
                                        >
                                        > Tomas Mosler
                                        >
                                        > --- Diana Krausova <diana@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Ahoj ve skupine,
                                        > >
                                        > > chtela jsem se podelit s lakavou nabidkou, kterou jsem pred chvili
                                        > obdrzela od klienta:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                        > >
                                        > > Dear Diana,
                                        > >
                                        > > We are currently looking for a linguist to proofread a document for a
                                        > BP project from English to Czech.
                                        > >
                                        > > It contains 7155 words and subject matter is E-learning.
                                        > > You will receive files on 6th November and the deadline is 7th November.
                                        > >
                                        > > Regarding a rate, although you’ve given us USD 25 / 1000 words for
                                        > proofreading for the profile, would you please agree with USD 16 for
                                        > this project if you would be interested in?
                                        > > I’m aware that this is very cheap rate, but as I mentioned above,
                                        > this is a project for BP, and we’ve basically got a very small budget
                                        > for every BP project.
                                        > > But instead, we have frequent and a number of projects.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                        > >
                                        > > Je mi jasne, ze to nekdo nakonec vezme :( To zduvodnovani nizke
                                        > sazby je nicmene usmevne, korporace BP zrovna zverejnila zisk radove v
                                        > miliardach americkych dolaru…
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Diana
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • ferstl@volny.cz
                                        Martine, zrovna jsem mela rozepsan mail s naprosto stejnou myslenkou. Nase profese je v tom naprosto jedinecna. Kdyz si vezmu svou vlastní zkusenost - nedavno
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Nov 3, 2012
                                          Martine, zrovna jsem mela rozepsan mail s naprosto stejnou myslenkou. Nase
                                          profese je v tom naprosto jedinecna. Kdyz si vezmu svou vlastní zkusenost -
                                          nedavno jsem pocitala, ze pouhych 5 % sve práce prodavam ceskym klientum, a
                                          to jen z urcite slabosti a diky dlouholetym vztahum. Jako prekladatele se
                                          nemusime se nikam premistovat, a pokud bychom tu potrebu meli, pak bych to
                                          videla na nejaky romanticky domecek na plazi - jako nekolik mych znamych
                                          prekladatelu, kterym odrostly deti.
                                          Hezky sobotni podvecer
                                          Lenka






                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                          Of Martin Janda
                                          Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 5:58 PM
                                          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka

                                          Ale no tak, Petre. Proc bychom se zvedali a ustupovali? Na rozdil od doktoru
                                          nemusime byt nutne tam, kde potrebuji nasi praci a kde nam za ni plati, ne?
                                          Mame tak docela kliku - maloktera jina profese muze skloubit zapadni
                                          odmenovani s ceskymi zivotnimi naklady...

                                          Martin


                                          Dne 3.11.2012 16:03, Petr napsal(a):
                                          >
                                          > Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba
                                          > posuzovat v kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR,
                                          > vydelku srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to
                                          > totez jako u lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k
                                          > zapadnim sousedum (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy
                                          > nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za
                                          > nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky roman ...).
                                          > Petr Adamek
                                          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                          > hgeige@... wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > What was relevant to me was that while I could "sort of" support
                                          > > myself working for Czech agencies in CR, I could not support myself
                                          > > working
                                          > for Czech
                                          > > agencies from the U.S., due to different buying power.
                                          > >
                                          > > Of course a translations totaling CZK 15 000 will pay my rent (I
                                          > assume)
                                          > > in Prague, but this amount will not pay my rent in New York. That is
                                          > all I
                                          > > meant, and sorry if I haven't expressed myself clearly.
                                          > >
                                          > > What he/she refuses or not was not the issue I was putting forward.
                                          > > Thanks, Tomas
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > In a message dated 11/2/2012 2:44:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                          > > tomas.mosler@... writes:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > I maintain that a Czech translator living abroad will not survive
                                          > while
                                          > > > working exclusively for Czech agencies, while a Czech translator
                                          > living
                                          > > in CR
                                          > > > and working exclusively for Czech agencies could, I mean, not very
                                          > well,
                                          > > but
                                          > > > pays his rent, or not?
                                          > >
                                          > > Perhaps, but how relevant is that? I mean, when such a Czech
                                          > > translator gets paid xxxxx CZK a month and thinks, fine, this pays
                                          > > my rent, is
                                          > he bound
                                          > > to politely refuse any better rates because he could - what horror -
                                          > earn
                                          > > some money extra? ;) (Or alternatively getting the same month
                                          > income, but
                                          > > having more free time.)
                                          > >
                                          > > Besides that, with the same logic Czech (or Eastern Europe)
                                          > > producers should sell their products in Czech stores for 1/4 - 1/2
                                          > > price
                                          > (because it
                                          > > should be sufficient to cover local rents) compared to Western
                                          > prices of the
                                          > > same product distributed over there, but somehow that is often not
                                          > happenning.
                                          > >
                                          > > I mean, if Polish KitKat Chunky can cost 12 CZK / EUR 0.50 and
                                          > > Western produced ( = better quality) KK Chunky costs EUR 0.60, or if
                                          > > I can
                                          > buy a bun
                                          > > (roll) in Germany for approx. EUR 0.10 and here for the same price,
                                          > > something is wrong with the "pay rent scheme".
                                          > >
                                          > > Tomas
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >



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                                          Zpráva neobsahuje viry.
                                          Zkontrolováno AVG - www.avg.cz
                                          Verze: 2012.0.2221 / Virová báze: 2441/5370 - Datum vydání: 2.11.2012
                                        • ferstl@volny.cz
                                          Jeste bych chtela v této souvislosti zminit jeden aspekt prace v Cechach a pro zahranicni klienty. Pokud vezmeme v uvahu preklady velkych jazyku, jako je
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Nov 4, 2012
                                            Jeste bych chtela v této souvislosti zminit jeden aspekt prace v Cechach a
                                            pro zahranicni klienty.
                                            Pokud vezmeme v uvahu preklady "velkych" jazyku, jako je anglictina, nemcina
                                            atd., konkurence v Cechach je velika, v ruzne kvalite, zamereni atd.
                                            Jestlize vsak takovy prekladatel pracuje pro zahranicniho klienta, razem se
                                            z nej stava prekladatel "exotickeho" jazyka, coz ma dle meho také vliv na
                                            vysledne sazby.
                                            Hezkou nedeli preji
                                            Lenka


                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                            Of Tomas Mosler
                                            Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 11:58 PM
                                            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka



                                            Prekladatele "ustoupit" maji kam, o tom uz psal Martin, pouze (nekteri)
                                            mozna nemaji odvahu - a nakonec nekteri jsou mozna i spokojeni a radeji nez
                                            sobe daji vic vydelat agenture. (Nic proti altruismu, ale myslim, ze zrovna
                                            v teto oblasti to neni uplne idealni pristup.)

                                            Myslim, ze cena prace (zamerne nepisu plat, protoze prekladatelu s platem je
                                            podle me malo) prekladatele-zivnostnika se neda nacpat do nejakych tabulek a
                                            prumeru, ale odviji se (i) od toho, jakou odmenu povazuje kazdy jednotlive v
                                            ramci volneho trhu za svou praci za adekvatni.

                                            Jinak co se tyka nakladu, Vase myslenka "kontextu nakladu" nefunguje ani v
                                            jinych oborech. Pokud dokazete nakupovat ceske potraviny za tretinovou cenu
                                            oproti zapadnim pri srovnatelne kvalite, prosim napiste mi, kde to je. Ja
                                            spis znam ceske potraviny za mozna nizsi cenu, ale take v nizsi kvalite.

                                            Podobne je to i u dovazenych polozek. (Nakonec i software atd. pro
                                            prekladatele se - tusim s vyjimkou Wordfastu a castecne Tradosu, kdy to ale
                                            rozhodne neni 1/3 zapadnich cen - neprodava za "ceske" ceny; ostatne jak to,
                                            ze clenstvi v nekterych zahranicnich asociacich stoji podobne penize jako
                                            treba v JTP [a pritom je to trochu jiny servis].)

                                            A plati to take u zbozi, ktere se vyrabi u nas, ale je dostupne i jinde.
                                            Napriklad cena eletriny, ktera je na evropske urovni. Nebo (toto uz jsem
                                            psal na Prekladech): Jak to, ze se Peugeoty vyrobene v Koline neprodavaji v
                                            CR za tretinovou cenu oproti cene (tychz levne vyrobenych vozu z Kolina) ve
                                            Francii? A takovych prikladu by bylo vice, nejde zdaleka jen o "zbytny"
                                            automobil.

                                            Jestlize tedy zdaleka neplati "na ceskem trhu ceske ceny", proc by potom
                                            prekladatele meli byt nejaci otloukankove, "protoze nejaky prumer"? Jini
                                            podnikatele se tim take neridi a chteji prodavat zbozi a sluzby
                                            hypotetickemu prekladateli s 1/3 prijmem za cenu stejnou jako jinde.

                                            Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, nerikam, ze vsechno vsude stoji stejne, na
                                            Zapade jsou IMHO drazsi hlavne sluzby a pojisteni, ale spis chci rict, ze se
                                            tam (jen priklad) 3x vic vydelava, i kdyz ne vse stoji 3x vic. Proc by tedy
                                            i prekladatel v CR nemohl vydelavat napr. 3x vic, i kdyz ne vse v CR stoji
                                            3x vic ( = stejne jako "na Zapade")?

                                            Jeste pro srovnani porovani prijmu v parite kupni sily (tedy co si lze
                                            koupit):
                                            http://www.finance.cz/zpravy/finance/369199-kde-se-zije-za-prumernou-mzdu-ne
                                            jlepe-/

                                            Nebo toto:
                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
                                            (Tipuji, ze prumerny prekladatel v Nemecku vydela vice nez 33 % (80/107)
                                            navic oproti prumernemu prekladateli v Cesku.)

                                            Tomas Mosler

                                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                            "Petr" <padamek@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba posuzovat v
                                            kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR, vydelku
                                            srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to totez jako u
                                            lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k zapadnim sousedum
                                            (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u
                                            nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky
                                            roman ...).
                                            > Petr Adamek




                                            ________________________________

                                            Zpráva neobsahuje viry.
                                            Zkontrolováno AVG - www.avg.cz
                                            Verze: 2012.0.2221 / Virová báze: 2441/5371 - Datum vydání: 3.11.2012
                                          • Jakub Skrebsky
                                            Lenko, v zasade souhlasim. Asi pred 6 lety jsem nahodou zjistil, ze pokud umim prekladat z anglictiny a ziju v Cechach, neni to nic zvlastniho. Pokud se
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Nov 4, 2012
                                              Lenko, v zasade souhlasim. Asi pred 6 lety jsem nahodou zjistil, ze pokud umim prekladat z anglictiny a ziju v Cechach, neni to nic zvlastniho. Pokud se stejnou kvalifikaci ziju v UK, jsem automaticky povazovan za specialistu. To mi tehdy dodalo odvahu vydat se na volnou nohu.
                                              Jenze agentury i primi klienti uz davno zjistili, ze se vyplati najmout si prekladatele z vychodu. Stejne hledaji lidi online a zadavani zakazek take probiha vetsinou e-mailem. Misto pobytu prekladatele tak stale hraje vyraznou roli, ale nyni opacnou. Cim dale na vychod, tim lepe. Takze ikdyz ziju v UK, jsem postupne tlacen dolu na vychodni ceny. Jedinou obranou je soustredit se na konzervativni klienty, kteri jeste neobjevili globalni outsourcing/crowdsourcing. Krome toho v UK platim mnohem vyssi dane, protoze zde neexistuje nakladovy pausal.
                                              Vetsina mych zdejsich kolegu, prekladajicich mezi AJ a vychodoevropskymi jazyky, zustava v UK spise z osobnich/rodinnych duvodu.

                                              Jakub

                                              On 4 Nov 2012, at 08:48, <ferstl@...> <ferstl@...> wrote:

                                              > Jeste bych chtela v této souvislosti zminit jeden aspekt prace v Cechach a
                                              > pro zahranicni klienty.
                                              > Pokud vezmeme v uvahu preklady "velkych" jazyku, jako je anglictina, nemcina
                                              > atd., konkurence v Cechach je velika, v ruzne kvalite, zamereni atd.
                                              > Jestlize vsak takovy prekladatel pracuje pro zahranicniho klienta, razem se
                                              > z nej stava prekladatel "exotickeho" jazyka, coz ma dle meho také vliv na
                                              > vysledne sazby.
                                              > Hezkou nedeli preji
                                              > Lenka
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              > Of Tomas Mosler
                                              > Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 11:58 PM
                                              > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Prekladatele "ustoupit" maji kam, o tom uz psal Martin, pouze (nekteri)
                                              > mozna nemaji odvahu - a nakonec nekteri jsou mozna i spokojeni a radeji nez
                                              > sobe daji vic vydelat agenture. (Nic proti altruismu, ale myslim, ze zrovna
                                              > v teto oblasti to neni uplne idealni pristup.)
                                              >
                                              > Myslim, ze cena prace (zamerne nepisu plat, protoze prekladatelu s platem je
                                              > podle me malo) prekladatele-zivnostnika se neda nacpat do nejakych tabulek a
                                              > prumeru, ale odviji se (i) od toho, jakou odmenu povazuje kazdy jednotlive v
                                              > ramci volneho trhu za svou praci za adekvatni.
                                              >
                                              > Jinak co se tyka nakladu, Vase myslenka "kontextu nakladu" nefunguje ani v
                                              > jinych oborech. Pokud dokazete nakupovat ceske potraviny za tretinovou cenu
                                              > oproti zapadnim pri srovnatelne kvalite, prosim napiste mi, kde to je. Ja
                                              > spis znam ceske potraviny za mozna nizsi cenu, ale take v nizsi kvalite.
                                              >
                                              > Podobne je to i u dovazenych polozek. (Nakonec i software atd. pro
                                              > prekladatele se - tusim s vyjimkou Wordfastu a castecne Tradosu, kdy to ale
                                              > rozhodne neni 1/3 zapadnich cen - neprodava za "ceske" ceny; ostatne jak to,
                                              > ze clenstvi v nekterych zahranicnich asociacich stoji podobne penize jako
                                              > treba v JTP [a pritom je to trochu jiny servis].)
                                              >
                                              > A plati to take u zbozi, ktere se vyrabi u nas, ale je dostupne i jinde.
                                              > Napriklad cena eletriny, ktera je na evropske urovni. Nebo (toto uz jsem
                                              > psal na Prekladech): Jak to, ze se Peugeoty vyrobene v Koline neprodavaji v
                                              > CR za tretinovou cenu oproti cene (tychz levne vyrobenych vozu z Kolina) ve
                                              > Francii? A takovych prikladu by bylo vice, nejde zdaleka jen o "zbytny"
                                              > automobil.
                                              >
                                              > Jestlize tedy zdaleka neplati "na ceskem trhu ceske ceny", proc by potom
                                              > prekladatele meli byt nejaci otloukankove, "protoze nejaky prumer"? Jini
                                              > podnikatele se tim take neridi a chteji prodavat zbozi a sluzby
                                              > hypotetickemu prekladateli s 1/3 prijmem za cenu stejnou jako jinde.
                                              >
                                              > Aby nedoslo k nedorozumeni, nerikam, ze vsechno vsude stoji stejne, na
                                              > Zapade jsou IMHO drazsi hlavne sluzby a pojisteni, ale spis chci rict, ze se
                                              > tam (jen priklad) 3x vic vydelava, i kdyz ne vse stoji 3x vic. Proc by tedy
                                              > i prekladatel v CR nemohl vydelavat napr. 3x vic, i kdyz ne vse v CR stoji
                                              > 3x vic ( = stejne jako "na Zapade")?
                                              >
                                              > Jeste pro srovnani porovani prijmu v parite kupni sily (tedy co si lze
                                              > koupit):
                                              > http://www.finance.cz/zpravy/finance/369199-kde-se-zije-za-prumernou-mzdu-ne
                                              > jlepe-/
                                              >
                                              > Nebo toto:
                                              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
                                              > (Tipuji, ze prumerny prekladatel v Nemecku vydela vice nez 33 % (80/107)
                                              > navic oproti prumernemu prekladateli v Cesku.)
                                              >
                                              > Tomas Mosler
                                              >
                                              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                              > "Petr" <padamek@...> wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >> Ja s tim naprosto souhlasim. Platy prekladatelu v CR je treba posuzovat v
                                              > kontextu zivotnich nakladu v CR, prumerneho platu v CR, vydelku
                                              > srovnatelnych intelektualnich profesi v CR apod. Ono je to totez jako u
                                              > lekaru, ti se ovsem muzou zvednout a jit zkusit stesti k zapadnim sousedum
                                              > (protoze nase ekonomika jim nikdy zapadni platy nabidnout nemuze), kdezto u
                                              > nas prekladatelu "ustoupit neni kam, za nami Moskva" (to byl jeden sovetsky
                                              > roman ...).
                                              >> Petr Adamek
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ________________________________
                                              >
                                              > Zpráva neobsahuje viry.
                                              > Zkontrolováno AVG - www.avg.cz
                                              > Verze: 2012.0.2221 / Virová báze: 2441/5371 - Datum vydání: 3.11.2012
                                              >
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                                            • Sarka Rubkova
                                              Svym zoùsobem má¹ asi pravdu - ale jako obvykle neplatí to v¾dy. sarka ... From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Nov 5, 2012
                                                Svym zoůsobem máš asi pravdu - ale jako obvykle neplatí to vždy.
                                                sarka

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                Of Martin Janda
                                                Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 1:13 PM
                                                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka

                                                It depends Sarka, butwith large technical project, say 15k +, often it is.
                                                Once you finetune your CAT tool and your brain to the text and style
                                                - and establish the core terminology - things are much easier with most
                                                technical projects I have seen. Plus, you will most likely get hundreds or
                                                even thousands of internal match words that get paid at the full rate.
                                                (Unless you accept wordcounts from Logoport, for instance.)

                                                Sure, I am talking about technical texts such as manual, not literature.

                                                The other thing is that clients offering such large projects often expect
                                                very deep discounts - often much deeper than what is reasonable and
                                                appropriate to the working time saved. You might save 10-20% of time but
                                                they require a 50% cut.

                                                Martin




                                                Dne 2.11.2012 12:55, Sarka Rubkova napsal(a):
                                                > Is it that easier to justify any discount?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > sarka
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                > Behalf Of Tomas Mosler
                                                > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 AM
                                                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Neodolatelna nabidka
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > In regards to the volume discount: While I understand your point
                                                > Jamie, and I also don't like the trick of "many jobs for little
                                                > money", I have no problem in offering a discount (though not 40 % as
                                                > requested by that LSP) for individual jobs over 10k words.
                                                >
                                                > My reasons are:
                                                > - It is easier to focus, to adapt to the specific terminology etc. in
                                                > case of a 10k job from one client instead of doing this in case of 10x
                                                > 1k job for
                                                > 10 different clients (NB I don't consider 10x 1k job for the same
                                                > client as one 10k job, also because it is not predictable)
                                                >
                                                > - Only one communication loop instead of e.g. 10 loops saves my time
                                                >
                                                > In other words, it is more efficient.
                                                >
                                                > Tomas
                                                >
                                                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > , James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                                                >> How do you know the problem is BP? It could be the LSP.
                                                >>
                                                >> This is that wonderful, absurd premise of the "volume discount". I
                                                >> tell
                                                > students in training sessions and translation classes that volume
                                                > discounts are nonsensical when it comes to services. A translator
                                                > can't sell himself cheaper by spreading design and tooling costs over
                                                > more units. However, people are ignorant of basic economics, so they
                                                > fall for the trick sometimes.
                                                >> Jamie
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
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