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Re: [Czechlist] vyvoj akciovych trhu

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  • James Kirchner
    The preposition improves it, and as I say, you can use development in reference to movement on the stock markets, but more than 50% of the time I m seeing
    Message 1 of 9 , May 30, 2012
      The preposition improves it, and as I say, you can use "development" in reference to movement on the stock markets, but more than 50% of the time I'm seeing "development" used in this translation, it's wrong. I'm convinced it requires a subtle feel for the two words, much like when to say "must", as I mentioned.

      The other difference is that you're using the word in the plural, which also changes everything.

      Jamie

      On May 30, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:

      > I think he probably just got the preposition wrong Jamie - "development of stock markets" is not quite the same as "developments on the stock market". Nothing wrong with "developments on the stock market" or "stock market developments".... millions of hits for them
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: James Kirchner
      > To: czechlist@...
      > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:19 AM
      > Subject: [Czechlist] vyvoj akciovych trhu
      >
      >
      >
      > Right now I'm editing a rather bad English text that has apparently been used to promote mutual funds managed by a major Czech financial institution. I would never invest in anything with a brochure written in that English.
      >
      > The translator apparently had a very large financial vocabulary but is missing most English collocations. He or she knows all the words, but doesn't know how we say anything.
      >
      > There are various things that stick out, but one of them is "vyvoj akciovych trhu", as in "pro vsechny opatrne investory, kteri by se radi podileli na vyvoji akciovych trhu".
      >
      > TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
      >
      > In reference to stock market activity, "vyvoj" almost always means "trend" or "trends". There are rare cases where it can be "development", but foreigners should avoid it, because knowing when to use "development" in relation to this topic is as hard as it is for a German to feel when it's OK to say "must".
      >
      > Thus, "podilet na vyvoji akciovych trhu" means "participate in stock market trends". An investor who wants to "participate in the development of stock markets" is centuries too late for that. Stock markets developed between the 13th and the 17th century, so that train has left the station.
      >
      > Jamie
      >
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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    • Melvyn
      ... I often use developments as a translation of vyvoj. Clearly, you have to watch the context, but I find it very frequently sounds more natural without
      Message 2 of 9 , May 31, 2012
        > On May 30, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:
        >
        > > I think he probably just got the preposition wrong Jamie - "development of stock markets" is not quite the same as "developments on the stock market". Nothing wrong with "developments on the stock market" or "stock market developments".... millions of hits for them

        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:

        > you're using the word in the plural, which also changes everything.

        I often use "developments" as a translation of vyvoj. Clearly, you have to watch the context, but I find it very frequently sounds more natural without changing the basic meaning.

        Other examples of pluralization to make a word "fit in" more naturally:

        provoz - operation - operations
        obsah - content - contents
        moznost - way - ways
        ztrata - loss - losses
        prodej - sale - sales
        vzhled - appearance - appearances
        presvedceni - conviction - convictions
        protest - protest - protests
        cenova vyhodnost - price benefit - price benefits
        kvalita - standard - standards
        priprava - preparation - preparations

        BR

        M.
      • Simon
        ... Me too, although I quite often find I can omit it altogether. For example, a graph title such as Vyvoj urokovych sazeb translates nicely as Interest
        Message 3 of 9 , May 31, 2012
          > I often use "developments" as a translation of vyvoj. Clearly, you have to watch the context, but I find it very frequently sounds more natural without changing the basic meaning.
          >

          Me too, although I quite often find I can omit it altogether. For example, a graph title such as "Vyvoj urokovych sazeb" translates nicely as "Interest rates".

          I think you have to be careful with "trend", as "vyvoj" can involve movements or fluctations without there being any discernable trend.

          Simon
        • Simon
          ... Oops, discernible :-( S.
          Message 4 of 9 , May 31, 2012
            > discernable.

            Oops, discernible :-(

            S.
          • Melvyn
            ... Okaaay, lead-in words in titles and headings can often come across as redundant. Struktura ruske vyroby autobusu Russian bus production Prehled znaku
            Message 5 of 9 , May 31, 2012
              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Simon" <vollams@...> wrote:

              > Me too, although I quite often find I can omit it altogether. For example, a graph title such as "Vyvoj urokovych sazeb" translates nicely as "Interest rates".

              Okaaay, "lead-in" words in titles and headings can often come across as redundant.


              Struktura ruske vyroby autobusu
              Russian bus production

              Prehled znaku uzitych v synoptickych tabulkach
              Symbols used in synoptic tables

              Vymezeni cilu vyzkumneho zameru
              Research Plan objectives

              http://czeng.wetpaint.com/page/032+Headings+and+titles


              BR

              M.
            • James Kirchner
              That s right, but on the other hand, when there is a discernible trend, we use trend more often. Googling upward trend and upward development in relation
              Message 6 of 9 , May 31, 2012
                That's right, but on the other hand, when there is a discernible trend, we use trend more often. Googling "upward trend" and "upward development" in relation to the stock market, I get 1.5 million hits for "trend" and only about 8,000 for "development".

                When you're talking about a sideways market, you get more than 7,000 hits for "trend" as opposed to a few hundred for "development". However, when the vyvoj is sideways, the most common term (37,000 hits) seems to be "movement".

                When you precede "trend" and "development" with common adjectives used when talking about stock market movements, such as "upward", "downward", "unclear", etc., you get a many times more hits for "trend" than you do for "development". The only exception I've found while experimenting is the adjective "satisfying", which shows up far more with "development" than with "trend" in a stock market context.

                Anyway, not everything that's "vyvoj" is called development, and people need to be careful.

                Jamie

                On May 31, 2012, at 6:00 AM, Simon wrote:

                >
                >
                >> I often use "developments" as a translation of vyvoj. Clearly, you have to watch the context, but I find it very frequently sounds more natural without changing the basic meaning.
                >>
                >
                > Me too, although I quite often find I can omit it altogether. For example, a graph title such as "Vyvoj urokovych sazeb" translates nicely as "Interest rates".
                >
                > I think you have to be careful with "trend", as "vyvoj" can involve movements or fluctations without there being any discernable trend.
                >
                > Simon
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > Czechlist mailing list
                > Czechlist@...
                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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              • Melvyn
                Pravo - very often sounds better as rights when legal context permits. BR M.
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 1, 2012
                  Pravo - very often sounds better as "rights" when legal context permits.

                  BR

                  M.


                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:

                  > Other examples of pluralization to make a word "fit in" more naturally:
                  >
                  > provoz - operation - operations
                  > obsah - content - contents
                  > moznost - way - ways
                  > ztrata - loss - losses
                  > prodej - sale - sales
                  > vzhled - appearance - appearances
                  > presvedceni - conviction - convictions
                  > protest - protest - protests
                  > cenova vyhodnost - price benefit - price benefits
                  > kvalita - standard - standards
                  > priprava - preparation - preparations
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