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[Czechlist] vyvoj akciovych trhu

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  • James Kirchner
    Right now I m editing a rather bad English text that has apparently been used to promote mutual funds managed by a major Czech financial institution. I would
    Message 1 of 9 , May 30 3:19 PM
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      Right now I'm editing a rather bad English text that has apparently been used to promote mutual funds managed by a major Czech financial institution. I would never invest in anything with a brochure written in that English.

      The translator apparently had a very large financial vocabulary but is missing most English collocations. He or she knows all the words, but doesn't know how we say anything.

      There are various things that stick out, but one of them is "vyvoj akciovych trhu", as in "pro vsechny opatrne investory, kteri by se radi podileli na vyvoji akciovych trhu".

      TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

      In reference to stock market activity, "vyvoj" almost always means "trend" or "trends". There are rare cases where it can be "development", but foreigners should avoid it, because knowing when to use "development" in relation to this topic is as hard as it is for a German to feel when it's OK to say "must".

      Thus, "podilet na vyvoji akciovych trhu" means "participate in stock market trends". An investor who wants to "participate in the development of stock markets" is centuries too late for that. Stock markets developed between the 13th and the 17th century, so that train has left the station.

      Jamie


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    • Charlie Stanford Translations
      I think he probably just got the preposition wrong Jamie - development of stock markets is not quite the same as developments on the stock market . Nothing
      Message 2 of 9 , May 30 3:38 PM
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        I think he probably just got the preposition wrong Jamie - "development of stock markets" is not quite the same as "developments on the stock market". Nothing wrong with "developments on the stock market" or "stock market developments".... millions of hits for them

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: James Kirchner
        To: czechlist@...
        Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:19 AM
        Subject: [Czechlist] vyvoj akciovych trhu



        Right now I'm editing a rather bad English text that has apparently been used to promote mutual funds managed by a major Czech financial institution. I would never invest in anything with a brochure written in that English.

        The translator apparently had a very large financial vocabulary but is missing most English collocations. He or she knows all the words, but doesn't know how we say anything.

        There are various things that stick out, but one of them is "vyvoj akciovych trhu", as in "pro vsechny opatrne investory, kteri by se radi podileli na vyvoji akciovych trhu".

        TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

        In reference to stock market activity, "vyvoj" almost always means "trend" or "trends". There are rare cases where it can be "development", but foreigners should avoid it, because knowing when to use "development" in relation to this topic is as hard as it is for a German to feel when it's OK to say "must".

        Thus, "podilet na vyvoji akciovych trhu" means "participate in stock market trends". An investor who wants to "participate in the development of stock markets" is centuries too late for that. Stock markets developed between the 13th and the 17th century, so that train has left the station.

        Jamie

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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James Kirchner
        The preposition improves it, and as I say, you can use development in reference to movement on the stock markets, but more than 50% of the time I m seeing
        Message 3 of 9 , May 30 4:16 PM
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          The preposition improves it, and as I say, you can use "development" in reference to movement on the stock markets, but more than 50% of the time I'm seeing "development" used in this translation, it's wrong. I'm convinced it requires a subtle feel for the two words, much like when to say "must", as I mentioned.

          The other difference is that you're using the word in the plural, which also changes everything.

          Jamie

          On May 30, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:

          > I think he probably just got the preposition wrong Jamie - "development of stock markets" is not quite the same as "developments on the stock market". Nothing wrong with "developments on the stock market" or "stock market developments".... millions of hits for them
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: James Kirchner
          > To: czechlist@...
          > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:19 AM
          > Subject: [Czechlist] vyvoj akciovych trhu
          >
          >
          >
          > Right now I'm editing a rather bad English text that has apparently been used to promote mutual funds managed by a major Czech financial institution. I would never invest in anything with a brochure written in that English.
          >
          > The translator apparently had a very large financial vocabulary but is missing most English collocations. He or she knows all the words, but doesn't know how we say anything.
          >
          > There are various things that stick out, but one of them is "vyvoj akciovych trhu", as in "pro vsechny opatrne investory, kteri by se radi podileli na vyvoji akciovych trhu".
          >
          > TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
          >
          > In reference to stock market activity, "vyvoj" almost always means "trend" or "trends". There are rare cases where it can be "development", but foreigners should avoid it, because knowing when to use "development" in relation to this topic is as hard as it is for a German to feel when it's OK to say "must".
          >
          > Thus, "podilet na vyvoji akciovych trhu" means "participate in stock market trends". An investor who wants to "participate in the development of stock markets" is centuries too late for that. Stock markets developed between the 13th and the 17th century, so that train has left the station.
          >
          > Jamie
          >
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          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > _______________________________________________
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          > Czechlist@...
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        • Melvyn
          ... I often use developments as a translation of vyvoj. Clearly, you have to watch the context, but I find it very frequently sounds more natural without
          Message 4 of 9 , May 31 2:48 AM
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            > On May 30, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:
            >
            > > I think he probably just got the preposition wrong Jamie - "development of stock markets" is not quite the same as "developments on the stock market". Nothing wrong with "developments on the stock market" or "stock market developments".... millions of hits for them

            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:

            > you're using the word in the plural, which also changes everything.

            I often use "developments" as a translation of vyvoj. Clearly, you have to watch the context, but I find it very frequently sounds more natural without changing the basic meaning.

            Other examples of pluralization to make a word "fit in" more naturally:

            provoz - operation - operations
            obsah - content - contents
            moznost - way - ways
            ztrata - loss - losses
            prodej - sale - sales
            vzhled - appearance - appearances
            presvedceni - conviction - convictions
            protest - protest - protests
            cenova vyhodnost - price benefit - price benefits
            kvalita - standard - standards
            priprava - preparation - preparations

            BR

            M.
          • Simon
            ... Me too, although I quite often find I can omit it altogether. For example, a graph title such as Vyvoj urokovych sazeb translates nicely as Interest
            Message 5 of 9 , May 31 3:00 AM
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              > I often use "developments" as a translation of vyvoj. Clearly, you have to watch the context, but I find it very frequently sounds more natural without changing the basic meaning.
              >

              Me too, although I quite often find I can omit it altogether. For example, a graph title such as "Vyvoj urokovych sazeb" translates nicely as "Interest rates".

              I think you have to be careful with "trend", as "vyvoj" can involve movements or fluctations without there being any discernable trend.

              Simon
            • Simon
              ... Oops, discernible :-( S.
              Message 6 of 9 , May 31 3:18 AM
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                > discernable.

                Oops, discernible :-(

                S.
              • Melvyn
                ... Okaaay, lead-in words in titles and headings can often come across as redundant. Struktura ruske vyroby autobusu Russian bus production Prehled znaku
                Message 7 of 9 , May 31 3:28 AM
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                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Simon" <vollams@...> wrote:

                  > Me too, although I quite often find I can omit it altogether. For example, a graph title such as "Vyvoj urokovych sazeb" translates nicely as "Interest rates".

                  Okaaay, "lead-in" words in titles and headings can often come across as redundant.


                  Struktura ruske vyroby autobusu
                  Russian bus production

                  Prehled znaku uzitych v synoptickych tabulkach
                  Symbols used in synoptic tables

                  Vymezeni cilu vyzkumneho zameru
                  Research Plan objectives

                  http://czeng.wetpaint.com/page/032+Headings+and+titles


                  BR

                  M.
                • James Kirchner
                  That s right, but on the other hand, when there is a discernible trend, we use trend more often. Googling upward trend and upward development in relation
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 31 3:43 AM
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                    That's right, but on the other hand, when there is a discernible trend, we use trend more often. Googling "upward trend" and "upward development" in relation to the stock market, I get 1.5 million hits for "trend" and only about 8,000 for "development".

                    When you're talking about a sideways market, you get more than 7,000 hits for "trend" as opposed to a few hundred for "development". However, when the vyvoj is sideways, the most common term (37,000 hits) seems to be "movement".

                    When you precede "trend" and "development" with common adjectives used when talking about stock market movements, such as "upward", "downward", "unclear", etc., you get a many times more hits for "trend" than you do for "development". The only exception I've found while experimenting is the adjective "satisfying", which shows up far more with "development" than with "trend" in a stock market context.

                    Anyway, not everything that's "vyvoj" is called development, and people need to be careful.

                    Jamie

                    On May 31, 2012, at 6:00 AM, Simon wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    >> I often use "developments" as a translation of vyvoj. Clearly, you have to watch the context, but I find it very frequently sounds more natural without changing the basic meaning.
                    >>
                    >
                    > Me too, although I quite often find I can omit it altogether. For example, a graph title such as "Vyvoj urokovych sazeb" translates nicely as "Interest rates".
                    >
                    > I think you have to be careful with "trend", as "vyvoj" can involve movements or fluctations without there being any discernable trend.
                    >
                    > Simon
                    >
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Czechlist mailing list
                    > Czechlist@...
                    > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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                  • Melvyn
                    Pravo - very often sounds better as rights when legal context permits. BR M.
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 1, 2012
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                      Pravo - very often sounds better as "rights" when legal context permits.

                      BR

                      M.


                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:

                      > Other examples of pluralization to make a word "fit in" more naturally:
                      >
                      > provoz - operation - operations
                      > obsah - content - contents
                      > moznost - way - ways
                      > ztrata - loss - losses
                      > prodej - sale - sales
                      > vzhled - appearance - appearances
                      > presvedceni - conviction - convictions
                      > protest - protest - protests
                      > cenova vyhodnost - price benefit - price benefits
                      > kvalita - standard - standards
                      > priprava - preparation - preparations
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