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Re: [Czechlist] TERM: GB vs. UK

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  • Valerie Talacko
    The vehicle registration codes divide the UK into Great Britain and Northern Ireland, though. I mean that the term Great Britain is never used - the
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 25, 2012
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      The vehicle registration codes divide the UK into Great Britain and
      Northern Ireland, though.

      I mean that the term Great Britain is never used - the abbreviation is
      used in some cases.

      On Wed, 2012-04-25 at 19:07 +0000, "Melvyn" wrote:
      >
      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Valerie Talacko <valerie@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > But Great Britain is never used to refer to the whole state, even in
      > > informal contexts. It's only ever Britain or the UK.
      >
      > What like never ever ever?
      >
      > And then there are international vehicle registration codes. Another special case. :-)
      >
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_vehicle_registration_codes
      >
      > BR
      >
      > M.
      >
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    • Valerie Talacko
      Yes, but that says GB - United Kingdom. The point is that no one uses the *words* Great Britain unless they re specifically referring to the entity that
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 25, 2012
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        Yes, but that says GB - United Kingdom.

        The point is that no one uses the *words* "Great Britain" unless they're
        specifically referring to the entity that consists of the UK minus
        Northern Ireland, and it's not very often that you want to do that.
        Either you're referring to the state - in which case it's the UK or
        Britain - or you're talking about part of it, in which case England,
        Scotland etc.

        On Wed, 2012-04-25 at 21:23 +0200, Jirka Bolech wrote:
        >
        > Great thanks for all your replies. I asked because 'Great Britain'
        > actually IS used to refer to the United Kingdom from outside the UK,
        > one
        > typical example being here:
        > http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/.
        >
        > For me, 'Great Britain' is a geographical term while 'United Kingdom'
        > is
        > a political or administrational term that covers Great Britain,
        > Norther
        > Ireland, Isle of Man, Shetland Islands, Orkney Islands, Channel
        > Islands,
        > etc., plus perhaps some non-European dependancies such as Falkland
        > Islands, British Virgin Islands etc.
        >
        > As a matter of fact, I should be more interested in the distinction
        > in
        > Czech: Jak, damy a panove, prekladate 'UK' nebo 'United Kingdom'? Je
        > preklad "Velka Britanie" koser?
        >
        > Jirka Bolech
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > Czechlist mailing list
        > Czechlist@...
        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Valerie Talacko
        Jirka s original question concerned the whole term Great Britain, though, not just the abbreviation GB, which, I agree, is used in various cases (and it s a
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 25, 2012
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          Jirka's original question concerned the whole term Great Britain,
          though, not just the abbreviation GB, which, I agree, is used in various
          cases (and it's a PITA when you have to work out where to look for it on
          drop-down lists :) )



          On Wed, 2012-04-25 at 19:07 +0000, "Melvyn" wrote:
          >
          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Valerie Talacko <valerie@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > But Great Britain is never used to refer to the whole state, even in
          > > informal contexts. It's only ever Britain or the UK.
          >
          > What like never ever ever?
          >
          > And then there are international vehicle registration codes. Another special case. :-)
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_vehicle_registration_codes
          >
          > BR
          >
          > M.
          >
          > _______________________________________________
          > Czechlist mailing list
          > Czechlist@...
          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist



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        • Valerie Talacko
          Britain isn t short for Great Britain, though - it was used as a concept before people started referring to Great Britain. When they started to use Great
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 25, 2012
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            Britain isn't short for Great Britain, though - it was used as a concept
            before people started referring to Great Britain. When they started to
            use Great Britain it was to refer to the Britain that wasn't Brittany.


            According to the Guardian style guide:

            Britain, UK
            These terms are synonymous: Britain is the official short form of United
            Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Used as adjectives,
            therefore, British and UK mean the same. Great Britain, however, refers
            only to England, Wales and Scotland.






            On Wed, 2012-04-25 at 21:05 +0200, Charles Stanford wrote:
            > I think Britain is just an abbreviated form of Great Britain isn't it
            > Valerie? I don't see Great Britain as being limited to the Olympic
            > team. Perhaps I am wrong but "Britain" surely doesn't include Northern
            > Ireland which is very much on the island of Ireland. An Irish friend
            > corrected me the other day for referring to the British Isles as including
            > Ireland (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute) -
            > according to her it should be the British and Irish Isles.
            > Incidentally If someone asks me where I am from I always say (in my
            > ignorance) Britain or Great Britain rather than the UK because to me the UK
            > sounds too "ex-patty". I think that 9/10s of us would not be aware of the
            > distinction - ashamed to say that I had to double-check earlier on....
            >
            > On 25 April 2012 20:40, Valerie Talacko <valerie@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > But Great Britain is never used to refer to the whole state, even in
            > > informal contexts. It's only ever Britain or the UK.
            > >
            > > (apart from the name of the Olympics team)
            > >
            > >
            > > On Wed, 2012-04-25 at 19:08 +0200, Charles Stanford wrote:
            > > > Depends on the context really - the UK is Great Britain and Northern
            > > > Ireland, but I think we use them pretty interchangeably really. For
            > > example
            > > > the United Kingdom are competing at the Olympics (with Northern Ireland
            > > > athletes unless they elect to compete for the Republic) but the team is
            > > > known as Team GB or the British Team. Officially though Romana is right -
            > > > they are not the same thing and in formal texts you are more likely to be
            > > > talking about the UK.
            > > >
            > > > On 25 April 2012 18:47, Jirka Bolech <jirka@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > **
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi:
            > > > >
            > > > > How do you guys feel about using 'Great Britain' as a synonym of the
            > > > > 'United Kingdom'? Acceptable or no way?
            > > > >
            > > > > Jirka Bolech
            > > > >
            > > > > _______________________________________________
            > > > > Czechlist mailing list
            > > > > Czechlist@...
            > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > _______________________________________________
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            > > > Czechlist@...
            > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            > >
            > > _______________________________________________
            > > Czechlist mailing list
            > > Czechlist@...
            > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
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            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
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          • Melvyn
            ... Agreed. while United Kingdom is ... OK ... The Isle of Man is actually a Crown Dependency. Not part of the UK.
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 25, 2012
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              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jirka Bolech <jirka@...> wrote:

              > For me, 'Great Britain' is a geographical term

              Agreed.

              while 'United Kingdom' is
              > a political or administrational term that covers Great Britain, Northern
              > Ireland,

              OK

              >Isle of Man,

              The Isle of Man is actually a Crown Dependency. Not part of the UK.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Dependencies


              Shetland Islands, Orkney Islands,

              OK


              > Channel Islands,

              Jersey and Guernsey are Crown Dependencies. Not part of the UK. Sark is a royal fief. All gets a bit complex there, I think.


              > etc., plus perhaps some non-European dependancies such as Falkland
              > Islands, British Virgin Islands etc.

              British Overseas Territories, I believe.

              >
              > As a matter of fact, I should be more interested in the distinction in
              > Czech: Jak, damy a panove, prekladate 'UK' nebo 'United Kingdom'? Je
              > preklad "Velka Britanie" koser?

              BTW I remember my old Czech tutor once told me that Anglie was used so often to mean Britanie in Ottuv slovnik that it was quite standard. Even Welsh place names were said to be in Anglie.


              BR

              M.
            • Matej Klimes
              I meant to ask you if you were using it in Eng or Czech, Jirko.. In Czech, I have used Velka Britanie in place of UK in general/marketing texts just because
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 25, 2012
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                I meant to ask you if you were using it in Eng or Czech, Jirko..

                In Czech, I have used Velka Britanie in place of UK in
                general/marketing texts just because Spojene kralovstvi Velke Britanie
                a Severniho Irska is such a mouthful.. I know it's not 100% correct,
                but IMHO you can't translate sentences like "We are UK's top supplier
                of XX" using what we use for UK in Czech..

                In a legal document, a contract with a definition of jurisdiction, or
                an official court document, it's got to be correct and it doesn't
                matter how long and difficult to work with, but in a normal context, I
                do use Velka Britanie or even Anglie.... It's all down to feel, no hard
                rules...


                M
                ------ Original Message ------
                From: "Jirka Bolech" <jirka@...>
                To: czechlist@...
                Sent: 25.4.2012 21:23:30
                Subject: Re: [Czechlist] TERM: GB vs. UK
                > Great thanks for all your replies. I asked because 'Great Britain'
                >actually IS used to refer to the United Kingdom from outside the UK,
                >one
                >typical example being here: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/.
                >
                >For me, 'Great Britain' is a geographical term while 'United Kingdom'
                >is
                >a political or administrational term that covers Great Britain,
                >Norther
                >Ireland, Isle of Man, Shetland Islands, Orkney Islands, Channel
                >Islands,
                >etc., plus perhaps some non-European dependancies such as Falkland
                >Islands, British Virgin Islands etc.
                >
                >As a matter of fact, I should be more interested in the distinction in
                >Czech: Jak, damy a panove, prekladate 'UK' nebo 'United Kingdom'? Je
                >preklad "Velka Britanie" koser?
                >
                >Jirka Bolech
                >
                >_______________________________________________
                >Czechlist mailing list
                >Czechlist@...
                >http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jirka Bolech
                Hey Matej, This is actually funny because a better solution than Velka Britanie or Anglie is simply Britanie and its derivatives, as it has already been
                Message 7 of 28 , Apr 25, 2012
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                  Hey Matej,

                  This is actually funny because a better solution than "Velka Britanie"
                  or "Anglie" is simply 'Britanie' and its derivatives, as it has already
                  been mentioned on this thread in English...

                  Jirka Bolech

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                • Martin Janda
                  I would never use Spojene kralovstvi except for a highly formal and/or legal text. Sounds Czenglish (or rather poor translation) to me, it s simply not used,
                  Message 8 of 28 , Apr 25, 2012
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                    I would never use 'Spojene kralovstvi' except for a highly formal and/or
                    legal text. Sounds Czenglish (or rather poor translation) to me, it's
                    simply not used, and not everyone would understand it.

                    Martin

                    Dne 25.4.2012 21:23, Jirka Bolech napsal(a):
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > As a matter of fact, I should be more interested in the distinction in
                    > Czech: Jak, damy a panove, prekladate 'UK' nebo 'United Kingdom'? Je
                    > preklad "Velka Britanie" koser?
                    >
                    > Jirka
                    > Bolech<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Petr
                    Stoprocentne souhlasim. Petr Adamek
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 25, 2012
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                      Stoprocentne souhlasim.
                      Petr Adamek
                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Martin Janda <mjanda@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I would never use 'Spojene kralovstvi' except for a highly formal and/or
                      > legal text. Sounds Czenglish (or rather poor translation) to me, it's
                      > simply not used, and not everyone would understand it.
                      >
                      > Martin
                    • Foren - Helga
                      Necetal jsem celou diskusi, proto prominte, pokud zde uvedu neco, co uz bylo receno... Mozna, ze cesky jazyk ci ceskou dusi ceka to, co pred nekolika let
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                        Necetal jsem celou diskusi, proto prominte, pokud zde uvedu neco, co uz
                        bylo receno...

                        Mozna, ze cesky jazyk ci ceskou dusi ceka to, co pred nekolika let
                        prodelal nemecky jazyk, ci co si musel naucit nemecky mluvici clovek: Ze
                        GB a UK neni jedno a totez. V beznem zivote jednotlivce to nedela zadny
                        rozdil, ale v nekterych "globalnich" zalezitostech, a take z hlediska
                        pravni sestavi, ten rozdil tam je, obcas i docela podsatny (napr.
                        ostrovy Man a Kanalovy jsou soucasti Velke Britanie ale nikoliv
                        Spojeneho Kralovstvi).
                        Koukejte zde
                        http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spojen%C3%A9_kr%C3%A1lovstv%C3%AD a v AJ je
                        rozdil vysvetleno zde http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/scotland/britain.html
                        . Hezky je take prvni odstavec Wiki ve slovenske verze (tam to rikji
                        opravdu tvrde)
                        http://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spojen%C3%A9_kr%C3%A1%C4%BEovstvo.

                        Tolik moje dnesni moudrosti ;-)
                        Helga

                        Am 26.04.2012 01:38, schrieb Martin Janda:
                        >
                        > I would never use 'Spojene kralovstvi' except for a highly formal and/or
                        > legal text. Sounds Czenglish (or rather poor translation) to me, it's
                        > simply not used, and not everyone would understand it.
                        >
                        > Martin
                        >
                        > Dne 25.4.2012 21:23, Jirka Bolech napsal(a):
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > As a matter of fact, I should be more interested in the distinction in
                        > > Czech: Jak, damy a panove, prekladate 'UK' nebo 'United Kingdom'? Je
                        > > preklad "Velka Britanie" koser?
                        > >
                        > > Jirka
                        > >
                        > Bolech<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860
                        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860>>
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > =======
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                      • Jirka Bolech
                        To, co napsali Martin a Petr, je pro me opet zajimave. Ja bych zase nikdy neprekladal United Kingdom jako Velka Britanie . Povazuji to za chybu, ackoliv je
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                          To, co napsali Martin a Petr, je pro me opet zajimave. Ja bych zase
                          nikdy neprekladal "United Kingdom" jako "Velka Britanie". Povazuji to za
                          chybu, ackoliv je oblibena i ve formalnim kontextu a prevazuje nad
                          spravnymi moznostmi...

                          Jirka Bolech

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                        • Martin Janda
                          Zajimave. Opravdu bezny Nemec hovorici o svém vikendu v Londyne rekne, ze jel do Vereinigtes Königreich? Ale Grossbritannien ma na nemeckem Googlu 4,5
                          Message 12 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                            Zajimave. Opravdu bezny Nemec hovorici o svém vikendu v Londyne rekne,
                            ze jel do Vereinigtes Königreich? Ale Grossbritannien ma na nemeckem
                            Googlu 4,5 milionu vyskytu, takze nejake ty basty konzervativcu asi
                            jeste odolavaji.

                            Pravni rozdil Britum, pardon Spojenym kralovanum, nikdo nebere - mluvime
                            o beznych textech, ne pravnickych smlouvach. Ale pravda, vsechny jazyky
                            dnes nasavaji anglismy, a kdyz uz mame sexualni haraseni, mozna se za
                            par let budeme i kralovsky spojovat. Uvidime...

                            Martin //
                            //

                            Dne 26.4.2012 9:46, Foren - Helga napsal(a):
                            >
                            > Necetal jsem celou diskusi, proto prominte, pokud zde uvedu neco, co uz
                            > bylo receno...
                            >
                            > Mozna, ze cesky jazyk ci ceskou dusi ceka to, co pred nekolika let
                            > prodelal nemecky jazyk, ci co si musel naucit nemecky mluvici clovek: Ze
                            > GB a UK neni jedno a totez. V beznem zivote jednotlivce to nedela zadny
                            > rozdil, ale v nekterych "globalnich" zalezitostech, a take z hlediska
                            > pravni sestavi, ten rozdil tam je, obcas i docela podsatny (napr.
                            > ostrovy Man a Kanalovy jsou soucasti Velke Britanie ale nikoliv
                            > Spojeneho Kralovstvi).
                            > Koukejte zde
                            > http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spojen%C3%A9_kr%C3%A1lovstv%C3%AD a v AJ je
                            > rozdil vysvetleno zde http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/scotland/britain.html
                            > . Hezky je take prvni odstavec Wiki ve slovenske verze (tam to rikji
                            > opravdu tvrde)
                            > http://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spojen%C3%A9_kr%C3%A1%C4%BEovstvo.
                            >
                            > Tolik moje dnesni moudrosti ;-)
                            > Helga
                            >
                            > Am 26.04.2012 01:38, schrieb Martin Janda:
                            > >
                            > > I would never use 'Spojene kralovstvi' except for a highly formal and/or
                            > > legal text. Sounds Czenglish (or rather poor translation) to me, it's
                            > > simply not used, and not everyone would understand it.
                            > >
                            > > Martin
                            > >
                            > > Dne 25.4.2012 21:23, Jirka Bolech napsal(a):
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > As a matter of fact, I should be more interested in the distinction in
                            > > > Czech: Jak, damy a panove, prekladate 'UK' nebo 'United Kingdom'? Je
                            > > > preklad "Velka Britanie" koser?
                            > > >
                            > > > Jirka
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > Bolech<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860
                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860>
                            >
                            > >
                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860
                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860>>>
                            >
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                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > =======
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                            > > =======
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                          • Martin Janda
                            To je asi podobny pripad, jako kdyz Velcro(R) strips prelozis jako pasky Velcro(R). Pan prekladatel to ma samozrejme spravne - a co na tom, ze uzivatel nevi,
                            Message 13 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                              To je asi podobny pripad, jako kdyz Velcro(R) strips prelozis jako pasky
                              Velcro(R). Pan prekladatel to ma samozrejme spravne - a co na tom, ze
                              uzivatel nevi, ze tim mysleli suchy zip. Spravny preklad je IMHO ten,
                              kteremu uzivatel rozumi - ne ten, ktery je psan v tlustych knihach.

                              Martin



                              Dne 26.4.2012 10:06, Jirka Bolech napsal(a):
                              >
                              > To, co napsali Martin a Petr, je pro me opet zajimave. Ja bych zase
                              > nikdy neprekladal "United Kingdom" jako "Velka Britanie". Povazuji to za
                              > chybu, ackoliv je oblibena i ve formalnim kontextu a prevazuje nad
                              > spravnymi moznostmi...
                              >
                              > Jirka Bolech
                              >
                              > _______________________________________________
                              > Czechlist mailing list
                              > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >
                              >
                            • Jirka Bolech
                              No, asi bych mel hlavne uvest, co tedy pouzivam: neformalne: Britanie, formalne: Spojene kralovstvi. Suchemu zipu se nebranim. Mozna proto, ze nevidim dobrou
                              Message 14 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                                No, asi bych mel hlavne uvest, co tedy pouzivam: neformalne: Britanie,
                                formalne: Spojene kralovstvi.

                                Suchemu zipu se nebranim. Mozna proto, ze nevidim dobrou alternativu.
                                Velcro je predevsim obchodni znacka, ale takovy zip vyrabi spousta
                                jinych spolecnosti. Na druhou stranu, "suchy zip" zni jako blbost a je
                                to pro me jenom ukazka toho, jako v praxi funguje jazykovy vyvoj. Kdyby
                                se v cestine byvalo vcas uchytilo rikat suchemu zipu "velcro", nikdo by
                                se nad tim dnes prilis nepodivoval a myslim, ze by to bylo lepsi reseni...

                                Jirka Bolech

                                _______________________________________________
                                Czechlist mailing list
                                Czechlist@...
                                http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              • Foren - Helga
                                ... Londyna. A pokud mluvi o navstivenou zemi, pak pouziva vyraz Anglie (coz je dokonce i spravne). V beznem hovoru RM NJ nepouziva ani GroĂźbritannien ani
                                Message 15 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                                  :-) ten obycak, co jede na vikend do Londyna, bezne jede jednoduse do
                                  Londyna. A pokud mluvi o navstivenou zemi, pak pouziva vyraz Anglie (coz
                                  je dokonce i spravne). V beznem hovoru RM NJ nepouziva ani
                                  Großbritannien ani Vereinigtes Königreich. Tyto vyrazi se pouzivaji
                                  vetsinou jen ve formalnejsim kontextu, a to v dnesni dobe uz vicemene
                                  korektne.
                                  Je to podobne jako s Tschechoslowakei a Tschechien. I kdyz obycak vi, ze
                                  se to rozdelilo pred par lety, trvalo dlouho, nez se zvyknul na (ci
                                  uvedomil) novy vyraz, a stale se pouziva i ten "stary". Fakt, tady se
                                  jedna o zkutecnou smenu a v GB versus UK o jiny rozdil, ale stejne
                                  teprve v nedavne minulosti si zacal tento rozdil vnimat (myslim u lidy
                                  jinych narodu). A proto si myslim, ze i tady bude nejaky cas trvat, nez
                                  ho lide bezne pouzivaji (a k tomu urcite take prispeji prekladatele tim,
                                  ze pouzivaji korektni preklady/vyrazy - tak se to casem dostane do
                                  podvedomi naroda a bude "vybyravejsi" pri volbe vyrazu).

                                  Helga

                                  Am 26.04.2012 10:13, schrieb Martin Janda:
                                  > Zajimave. Opravdu bezny Nemec hovorici o svém vikendu v Londyne rekne,
                                  > ze jel do Vereinigtes Königreich? Ale Grossbritannien ma na nemeckem
                                  > Googlu 4,5 milionu vyskytu, takze nejake ty basty konzervativcu asi
                                  > jeste odolavaji.
                                  >
                                  > Pravni rozdil Britum, pardon Spojenym kralovanum, nikdo nebere - mluvime
                                  > o beznych textech, ne pravnickych smlouvach. Ale pravda, vsechny jazyky
                                  > dnes nasavaji anglismy, a kdyz uz mame sexualni haraseni, mozna se za
                                  > par let budeme i kralovsky spojovat. Uvidime...
                                  >
                                  > Martin //
                                  > //
                                  >
                                  > Dne 26.4.2012 9:46, Foren - Helga napsal(a):
                                  >> Necetal jsem celou diskusi, proto prominte, pokud zde uvedu neco, co uz
                                  >> bylo receno...
                                  >>
                                  >> Mozna, ze cesky jazyk ci ceskou dusi ceka to, co pred nekolika let
                                  >> prodelal nemecky jazyk, ci co si musel naucit nemecky mluvici clovek: Ze
                                  >> GB a UK neni jedno a totez. V beznem zivote jednotlivce to nedela zadny
                                  >> rozdil, ale v nekterych "globalnich" zalezitostech, a take z hlediska
                                  >> pravni sestavi, ten rozdil tam je, obcas i docela podsatny (napr.
                                  >> ostrovy Man a Kanalovy jsou soucasti Velke Britanie ale nikoliv
                                  >> Spojeneho Kralovstvi).
                                  >> Koukejte zde
                                  >> http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spojen%C3%A9_kr%C3%A1lovstv%C3%AD a v AJ je
                                  >> rozdil vysvetleno zde http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/scotland/britain.html
                                  >> . Hezky je take prvni odstavec Wiki ve slovenske verze (tam to rikji
                                  >> opravdu tvrde)
                                  >> http://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spojen%C3%A9_kr%C3%A1%C4%BEovstvo.
                                  >>
                                  >> Tolik moje dnesni moudrosti ;-)
                                  >> Helga
                                  >>
                                  >> Am 26.04.2012 01:38, schrieb Martin Janda:
                                  >>> I would never use 'Spojene kralovstvi' except for a highly formal and/or
                                  >>> legal text. Sounds Czenglish (or rather poor translation) to me, it's
                                  >>> simply not used, and not everyone would understand it.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Martin
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Dne 25.4.2012 21:23, Jirka Bolech napsal(a):
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> As a matter of fact, I should be more interested in the distinction in
                                  >>>> Czech: Jak, damy a panove, prekladate 'UK' nebo 'United Kingdom'? Je
                                  >>>> preklad "Velka Britanie" koser?
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Jirka
                                  >>>>
                                  >> Bolech<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860
                                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860>
                                  >>
                                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860
                                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860>>>
                                  >>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> =======
                                  >>> E-Mail von PC Tools gescannt -- Keine Viren oder Spyware gefunden.
                                  >>> (Email Guard: 9.0.0.909, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19610)
                                  >>> http://www.pctools.com
                                  >>> <http://www.pctools.com/?cclick=EmailFooterClean_51>
                                  >>> =======
                                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
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                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
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                                  > =======
                                  > E-Mail von PC Tools gescannt – Keine Viren oder Spyware gefunden.
                                  > (Email Guard: 9.0.0.909, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19610)
                                  > http://www.pctools.com/
                                  > =======
                                  >
                                • Martin Janda
                                  Takze se v zasade shodnem - jemny rozdil mozna je jen v tom, cemu kdo rikame formalni a neformalni pouziti. Suchy zip je dany 40 roky bolsevismu. Tehdy se
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                                    Takze se v zasade shodnem - jemny rozdil mozna je jen v tom, cemu kdo
                                    rikame formalni a neformalni pouziti.

                                    Suchy zip je dany 40 roky bolsevismu. Tehdy se zadne kapitalisticke
                                    znacky neuznavaly, snad leda Coca-Cola, a patent se bud tise vyrabel v
                                    licenci pod "uvedomelym" nazvem, nebo jeste tiseji ukradl. A nejak se
                                    tomu rikat muselo. Jasne, logicky je suchy zip blbost, ale takovych v
                                    cestine (i jinych jazycich) najdes... Na druhe strane - nepochybne by to
                                    bylo zdomacnelo jako velkro (male pismeno, s "k", bez (R), sklonovane).
                                    A to by bylo kecu u stouravych angloamerickych zakazniku...

                                    A jen na okraj - Anglosasove by si asi rvali vlasy nad vyrazy jako xerox
                                    a lux, a asi by to v anglictine nepovazovali za optimalni reseni...

                                    Martin


                                    Dne 26.4.2012 10:48, Jirka Bolech napsal(a):
                                    >
                                    > No, asi bych mel hlavne uvest, co tedy pouzivam: neformalne: Britanie,
                                    > formalne: Spojene kralovstvi.
                                    >
                                    > Suchemu zipu se nebranim. Mozna proto, ze nevidim dobrou alternativu.
                                    > Velcro je predevsim obchodni znacka, ale takovy zip vyrabi spousta
                                    > jinych spolecnosti. Na druhou stranu, "suchy zip" zni jako blbost a je
                                    > to pro me jenom ukazka toho, jako v praxi funguje jazykovy vyvoj. Kdyby
                                    > se v cestine byvalo vcas uchytilo rikat suchemu zipu "velcro", nikdo by
                                    > se nad tim dnes prilis nepodivoval a myslim, ze by to bylo lepsi reseni...
                                    >
                                    > Jirka Bolech
                                    >
                                    > _______________________________________________
                                    > Czechlist mailing list
                                    > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                                    > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Jan Culka
                                    Na druhou stranu mají urcite i RM podobných názvu (nad kterými by si Martin rval vlasy) neurekom, napadá me ted jen bendix pro aut. pracku ... Honza ...
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                                      Na druhou stranu mají urcite i RM podobných názvu (nad kterými by si Martin
                                      rval vlasy) neurekom, napadá me ted jen bendix pro aut. pracku ...
                                      Honza


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Martin Janda" <mjanda@...>
                                      To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 11:06 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Velcro WAS: GB vs. UK


                                      > Takze se v zasade shodnem - jemny rozdil mozna je jen v tom, cemu kdo
                                      > rikame formalni a neformalni pouziti.
                                      >
                                      > Suchy zip je dany 40 roky bolsevismu. Tehdy se zadne kapitalisticke
                                      > znacky neuznavaly, snad leda Coca-Cola, a patent se bud tise vyrabel v
                                      > licenci pod "uvedomelym" nazvem, nebo jeste tiseji ukradl. A nejak se
                                      > tomu rikat muselo. Jasne, logicky je suchy zip blbost, ale takovych v
                                      > cestine (i jinych jazycich) najdes... Na druhe strane - nepochybne by to
                                      > bylo zdomacnelo jako velkro (male pismeno, s "k", bez (R), sklonovane).
                                      > A to by bylo kecu u stouravych angloamerickych zakazniku...
                                      >
                                      > A jen na okraj - Anglosasove by si asi rvali vlasy nad vyrazy jako xerox
                                      > a lux, a asi by to v anglictine nepovazovali za optimalni reseni...
                                      >
                                      > Martin
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Dne 26.4.2012 10:48, Jirka Bolech napsal(a):
                                      >>
                                      >> No, asi bych mel hlavne uvest, co tedy pouzivam: neformalne: Britanie,
                                      >> formalne: Spojene kralovstvi.
                                      >>
                                      >> Suchemu zipu se nebranim. Mozna proto, ze nevidim dobrou alternativu.
                                      >> Velcro je predevsim obchodni znacka, ale takovy zip vyrabi spousta
                                      >> jinych spolecnosti. Na druhou stranu, "suchy zip" zni jako blbost a je
                                      >> to pro me jenom ukazka toho, jako v praxi funguje jazykovy vyvoj. Kdyby
                                      >> se v cestine byvalo vcas uchytilo rikat suchemu zipu "velcro", nikdo by
                                      >> se nad tim dnes prilis nepodivoval a myslim, ze by to bylo lepsi
                                      >> reseni...
                                      >>
                                      >> Jirka Bolech
                                      >>
                                      >> _______________________________________________
                                      >> Czechlist mailing list
                                      >> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                                      >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
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                                    • Martin Janda
                                      nebo treba zamboni (rolby)... neboj, nad tim si vlasy nervu - to az ve chvili, kdy se zahranicni klient dozaduje, abych tam to Velcro(R) pekne taky napsal....
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                                        nebo treba zamboni (rolby)... neboj, nad tim si vlasy nervu - to az ve
                                        chvili, kdy se zahranicni klient dozaduje, abych tam to Velcro(R) pekne
                                        taky napsal....

                                        M.

                                        Dne 26.4.2012 11:16, Jan Culka napsal(a):
                                        > Na druhou stranu mají urcite i RM podobných názvu (nad kterými by si Martin
                                        > rval vlasy) neurekom, napadá me ted jen bendix pro aut. pracku ...
                                        > Honza
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "Martin Janda"<mjanda@...>
                                        > To:<Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 11:06 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Velcro WAS: GB vs. UK
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >> Takze se v zasade shodnem - jemny rozdil mozna je jen v tom, cemu kdo
                                        >> rikame formalni a neformalni pouziti.
                                        >>
                                        >> Suchy zip je dany 40 roky bolsevismu. Tehdy se zadne kapitalisticke
                                        >> znacky neuznavaly, snad leda Coca-Cola, a patent se bud tise vyrabel v
                                        >> licenci pod "uvedomelym" nazvem, nebo jeste tiseji ukradl. A nejak se
                                        >> tomu rikat muselo. Jasne, logicky je suchy zip blbost, ale takovych v
                                        >> cestine (i jinych jazycich) najdes... Na druhe strane - nepochybne by to
                                        >> bylo zdomacnelo jako velkro (male pismeno, s "k", bez (R), sklonovane).
                                        >> A to by bylo kecu u stouravych angloamerickych zakazniku...
                                        >>
                                        >> A jen na okraj - Anglosasove by si asi rvali vlasy nad vyrazy jako xerox
                                        >> a lux, a asi by to v anglictine nepovazovali za optimalni reseni...
                                        >>
                                        >> Martin
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Dne 26.4.2012 10:48, Jirka Bolech napsal(a):
                                        >>> No, asi bych mel hlavne uvest, co tedy pouzivam: neformalne: Britanie,
                                        >>> formalne: Spojene kralovstvi.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Suchemu zipu se nebranim. Mozna proto, ze nevidim dobrou alternativu.
                                        >>> Velcro je predevsim obchodni znacka, ale takovy zip vyrabi spousta
                                        >>> jinych spolecnosti. Na druhou stranu, "suchy zip" zni jako blbost a je
                                        >>> to pro me jenom ukazka toho, jako v praxi funguje jazykovy vyvoj. Kdyby
                                        >>> se v cestine byvalo vcas uchytilo rikat suchemu zipu "velcro", nikdo by
                                        >>> se nad tim dnes prilis nepodivoval a myslim, ze by to bylo lepsi
                                        >>> reseni...
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Jirka Bolech
                                        >>>
                                        >>> _______________________________________________
                                        >>> Czechlist mailing list
                                        >>> Czechlist@...<mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
                                        >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>
                                        >> ------------------------------------
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
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                                        > ------------------------------------
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                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
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                                      • Valerie Talacko
                                        Ale Britove take skoro nikdy nepouzivaji United Kingdom v beznem mluvenem projevu - objevuje se to jen ve zkracene forme, the UK (a to prave v cestine
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Apr 26, 2012
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                                          Ale Britove take skoro nikdy nepouzivaji "United Kingdom" v beznem
                                          mluvenem projevu - objevuje se to jen ve zkracene forme, "the UK" (a to
                                          prave v cestine nejde).



                                          On Thu, 2012-04-26 at 10:13 +0200, Martin Janda wrote:
                                          > Zajimave. Opravdu bezny Nemec hovorici o svem vikendu v Londyne rekne,
                                          > ze jel do Vereinigtes Konigreich? Ale Grossbritannien ma na nemeckem
                                          > Googlu 4,5 milionu vyskytu, takze nejake ty basty konzervativcu asi
                                          > jeste odolavaji.
                                          >
                                          > Pravni rozdil Britum, pardon Spojenym kralovanum, nikdo nebere - mluvime
                                          > o beznych textech, ne pravnickych smlouvach. Ale pravda, vsechny jazyky
                                          > dnes nasavaji anglismy, a kdyz uz mame sexualni haraseni, mozna se za
                                          > par let budeme i kralovsky spojovat. Uvidime...
                                          >
                                          > Martin //
                                          > //
                                          >
                                          > Dne 26.4.2012 9:46, Foren - Helga napsal(a):
                                          > >
                                          > > Necetal jsem celou diskusi, proto prominte, pokud zde uvedu neco, co uz
                                          > > bylo receno...
                                          > >
                                          > > Mozna, ze cesky jazyk ci ceskou dusi ceka to, co pred nekolika let
                                          > > prodelal nemecky jazyk, ci co si musel naucit nemecky mluvici clovek: Ze
                                          > > GB a UK neni jedno a totez. V beznem zivote jednotlivce to nedela zadny
                                          > > rozdil, ale v nekterych "globalnich" zalezitostech, a take z hlediska
                                          > > pravni sestavi, ten rozdil tam je, obcas i docela podsatny (napr.
                                          > > ostrovy Man a Kanalovy jsou soucasti Velke Britanie ale nikoliv
                                          > > Spojeneho Kralovstvi).
                                          > > Koukejte zde
                                          > > http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spojen%C3%A9_kr%C3%A1lovstv%C3%AD a v AJ je
                                          > > rozdil vysvetleno zde http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/scotland/britain.html
                                          > > . Hezky je take prvni odstavec Wiki ve slovenske verze (tam to rikji
                                          > > opravdu tvrde)
                                          > > http://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spojen%C3%A9_kr%C3%A1%C4%BEovstvo.
                                          > >
                                          > > Tolik moje dnesni moudrosti ;-)
                                          > > Helga
                                          > >
                                          > > Am 26.04.2012 01:38, schrieb Martin Janda:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I would never use 'Spojene kralovstvi' except for a highly formal and/or
                                          > > > legal text. Sounds Czenglish (or rather poor translation) to me, it's
                                          > > > simply not used, and not everyone would understand it.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Martin
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Dne 25.4.2012 21:23, Jirka Bolech napsal(a):
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > As a matter of fact, I should be more interested in the distinction in
                                          > > > > Czech: Jak, damy a panove, prekladate 'UK' nebo 'United Kingdom'? Je
                                          > > > > preklad "Velka Britanie" koser?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jirka
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > Bolech<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860
                                          > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860>
                                          > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860
                                          > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcmtvYjlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNDg4NjAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzM1MzgxODQw?act=reply&messageNum=48860>>>
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                                          > > > =======
                                          > > > E-Mail von PC Tools gescannt -- Keine Viren oder Spyware gefunden.
                                          > > > (Email Guard: 9.0.0.909, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19610)
                                          > > > http://www.pctools.com
                                          > > > <http://www.pctools.com/?cclick=EmailFooterClean_51>
                                          > > > =======
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