Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Czechlist] verb

Expand Messages
  • Gerald Turner
    Co takhle: Zvedá se mi žaludek? Gerry ... -- 7 Old Shoreham Road Brighton Sussex BN1 5DQ U.K. Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484 To see a World in a Grain of Sand And
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 8, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Co takhle: Zvedá se mi žaludek?

      Gerry

      On 8 February 2012 18:19, Martin Janda <mjanda@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Seconded to Jirka. Davit se covers them all - we Czechs seem to be a bit
      > less specific/indulging in fine niceties of these stomach things....
      >
      > Martin
      >
      > Dne 8.2.2012 19:06, James Kirchner napsal(a):
      >
      > > Thanks, Jirka. Can "davit se" involve the throat only, or does it have
      > > to involve the stomach muscles? I see it defined as "heave" somewhere,
      > > and heaving involves the stomach muscles.
      > >
      > > The problem is that I've got the word "gag" (which involves only the
      > > throat) translated into Czech by someone else as "dusit se". However, my
      > > understanding of "dusit se" is suffocation, as, for example, when a
      > > drunk will "dusit se" from his own vomit when he's sleeping. This
      > > definitely doesn't describe gagging.
      > >
      > > Jamie
      > >
      > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Jirka Bolech wrote:
      > >
      > > > Hi Jamie,
      > > >
      > > > Perhaps 'davit se' does it...
      > > >
      > > > Jirka Bolech
      >
      >
      >



      --
      7 Old Shoreham Road
      Brighton
      Sussex
      BN1 5DQ
      U.K.

      Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484

      To see a World in a Grain of Sand
      And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
      Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
      And Eternity in an hour.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Irena.Steinerova@tiscali.cz
      What about napinat na zvraceni ? It s a bit coloquial though... irena ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 8, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        What about "napinat na zvraceni"? It's a bit coloquial though...
        irena

        Dne 8.2.2012 20:17, Gerald Turner napsal(a):
        >
        > Co takhle: Zvedá se mi z(aludek?
        >
        > Gerry
        >
        > On 8 February 2012 18:19, Martin Janda <mjanda@...
        > <mailto:mjanda%40gofree.indigo.ie>> wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Seconded to Jirka. Davit se covers them all - we Czechs seem to be a bit
        > > less specific/indulging in fine niceties of these stomach things....
        > >
        > > Martin
        > >
        > > Dne 8.2.2012 19:06, James Kirchner napsal(a):
        > >
        > > > Thanks, Jirka. Can "davit se" involve the throat only, or does it have
        > > > to involve the stomach muscles? I see it defined as "heave" somewhere,
        > > > and heaving involves the stomach muscles.
        > > >
        > > > The problem is that I've got the word "gag" (which involves only the
        > > > throat) translated into Czech by someone else as "dusit se".
        > However, my
        > > > understanding of "dusit se" is suffocation, as, for example, when a
        > > > drunk will "dusit se" from his own vomit when he's sleeping. This
        > > > definitely doesn't describe gagging.
        > > >
        > > > Jamie
        > > >
        > > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Jirka Bolech wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Hi Jamie,
        > > > >
        > > > > Perhaps 'davit se' does it...
        > > > >
        > > > > Jirka Bolech
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > 7 Old Shoreham Road
        > Brighton
        > Sussex
        > BN1 5DQ
        > U.K.
        >
        > Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484
        >
        > To see a World in a Grain of Sand
        > And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
        > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
        > And Eternity in an hour.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jirka Bolech
        Hi again, My immediate response was mainly based on the throat muscles involvement only. When I look at all the examples you give, Jamie, though, I must say
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 8, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi again,

          My immediate response was mainly based on the throat muscles involvement
          only. When I look at all the examples you give, Jamie, though, I must
          say that at least the last two would be closer to feeling like throwing
          up rather than feeling choked in throat.

          Anyway, 'davit se' (as 'daviti') is described at
          http://ssjc.ujc.cas.cz/search.php (I first heard of this dictionary from
          you, by the way, buying its multi-volume hard copy edition then) as
          either, although the vomiting-like reflex meaning is tagged there as
          dated and colloqial.

          Going on Merriam Webester's definiton of 'gag': choke
          <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/choke>;/also/*:*to suffer a
          throat spasm that makes swallowing or breathing difficult, I still think
          'davit se' is a good choice...

          Jirka Bolech
          _______________________________________________
          Czechlist mailing list
          Czechlist@...
          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        • Matej Klimes
          What verb do you use in ENG? Retch? that s both for the #1 muscle reaction without necessarily vomiting and #2 for the act of vomiting itself, isn t it?
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 8, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            What verb do you use in ENG?

            Retch? that's both for the #1 muscle reaction without necessarily
            vomiting and #2 for the act of vomiting itself, isn't it?

            Hovorove, I think we'd say 'nata'hlo me' - and that's only for #1, we
            may also say something like 'prislo mi blivno, udelalo se mi spatne',
            but that's more like 'I felt queasy/sick/about to be sick' and not
            specifically about the muscle reaction you describe ..

            I see others have already chipped in now.. davit se is indeed to do
            with suffocation, but also with vomiting, I'd say it more of a is #2
            though, as in the act goes through, or even continuing to heave/retch
            when there's nothing to vomit - and that's mostly to do with stomach
            muscles, not neck..

            In any case dusit se is wrong, the translator probably thought of
            someone being gagged.. we don't seem to have a non-colloquial term for
            the thing, so davit se will do in a formal context..

            M




            ------ Original Message ------
            From: "James Kirchner" <czechlist@...>
            To: czechlist@...
            Sent: 8.2.2012 18:33:30
            Subject: [Czechlist] verb
            > What verb is used in Czech for the involuntary muscle reaction that
            >occurs at the back of the throat when, for example:
            >
            >a. Grandma presses your tongue down with a spoon to examine your
            >throat,
            >b. You smell, taste or see something extremely disgusting,
            >c. You are about to vomit (but maybe don't)?
            >
            >Any ideas will be appreciated.
            >
            >Jamie
            >
            >_______________________________________________
            >Czechlist mailing list
            >Czechlist@...
            >http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            >
            >
            >
            >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6868
            >(20120208) __________
            >
            >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
            >
            >http://www.eset.cz/


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James Kirchner
            The original English word used in the questionnaire administered to the patients is gag . When I hear dusit se , I think if Jimi Hendrix or a drunk drowning
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 9, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              The original English word used in the questionnaire administered to the patients is "gag".

              When I hear "dusit se", I think if Jimi Hendrix or a drunk drowning in his own vomit while sleeping.

              Gagging, on the other hand, is when you have that involuntary muscle reaction in the throat that may or may not precede vomiting. For example, someone in my family does not eat solid fruit or vegetables, because the texture has made him gag ever since he was a baby. He doesn't throw up, but his throat involuntarily reacts to reject the fruit or vegetable. I don't have a quick gag response, so I can watch surgery on TV while I eat lunch, whereas the sight of the same thing would make many other people gag. Nobody throws up, but they have an involuntary muscle reaction at the back of their throat.

              Jamie

              On Feb 9, 2012, at 2:40 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

              > What verb do you use in ENG?
              >
              > Retch? that's both for the #1 muscle reaction without necessarily
              > vomiting and #2 for the act of vomiting itself, isn't it?
              >
              > Hovorove, I think we'd say 'nata'hlo me' - and that's only for #1, we
              > may also say something like 'prislo mi blivno, udelalo se mi spatne',
              > but that's more like 'I felt queasy/sick/about to be sick' and not
              > specifically about the muscle reaction you describe ..
              >
              > I see others have already chipped in now.. davit se is indeed to do
              > with suffocation, but also with vomiting, I'd say it more of a is #2
              > though, as in the act goes through, or even continuing to heave/retch
              > when there's nothing to vomit - and that's mostly to do with stomach
              > muscles, not neck..
              >
              > In any case dusit se is wrong, the translator probably thought of
              > someone being gagged.. we don't seem to have a non-colloquial term for
              > the thing, so davit se will do in a formal context..
              >
              > M
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------ Original Message ------
              > From: "James Kirchner" <czechlist@...>
              > To: czechlist@...
              > Sent: 8.2.2012 18:33:30
              > Subject: [Czechlist] verb
              >> What verb is used in Czech for the involuntary muscle reaction that
              >> occurs at the back of the throat when, for example:
              >>
              >> a. Grandma presses your tongue down with a spoon to examine your
              >> throat,
              >> b. You smell, taste or see something extremely disgusting,
              >> c. You are about to vomit (but maybe don't)?
              >>
              >> Any ideas will be appreciated.
              >>
              >> Jamie
              >>
              >> _______________________________________________
              >> Czechlist mailing list
              >> Czechlist@...
              >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> __________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6868
              >> (20120208) __________
              >>
              >> Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
              >>
              >> http://www.eset.cz/
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > _______________________________________________
              > Czechlist mailing list
              > Czechlist@...
              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


              _______________________________________________
              Czechlist mailing list
              Czechlist@...
              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            • Stephan von Pohl
              Hi Jamie, just a quick follow-up to the whole child/pregnancy thing. By coincidence, Wustenrot is running a big ad campaign for their insurance in the Prague
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 15, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Jamie,

                just a quick follow-up to the whole child/pregnancy thing. By
                coincidence, Wustenrot is running a big ad campaign for their insurance
                in the Prague metro. One of the billboards (presumably for life
                insurance or maybe a children's account) shows a man holding a pregnancy
                test. He's a got a sheepish look on his face. His girlfriend (or wife)
                is in the background in the doorway to the bathroom with a chagrined
                look on her face, shrugging her shoulders, as if to say "whoops" or
                "sorry". I couldn't find the poster online and I don't carry a
                cameraphone around with me, so I can't send a picture, but it pretty
                much captures the creeping "Americanization" of the attitude towards
                children here: an inconvenience, an unpleasant surprise, a potential
                burden, something that shouldn't "happen" to you.

                Best,
                Steve
                (the 40-year-old father of a 3-year-old)

                _______________________________________________
                Czechlist mailing list
                Czechlist@...
                http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
              • Kostas
                Jamie, but why did this issue played a role in your readjustment back to the US? K.
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 15, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jamie, but why did this issue played a role in your readjustment back to the US?

                  K.
                • James Kirchner
                  For some reason that I don t know, it s one of several different perspectives I gained over there that I never quite lost when I got home. It probably relates
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 15, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    For some reason that I don't know, it's one of several different perspectives I gained over there that I never quite lost when I got home.

                    It probably relates to a whole complex of strange latter-day mentalities in the US that are not natural and are oppressive to living as a free human being. When I returned home I found I'd acquired quite a few behaviors that were maladaptive to US society, and I had to change the ones I could.

                    One Russian I taught for a while told me, "You probably felt a lot freer in the Czech Republic than in your own home country," and he was right. I grew up with fewer social restrictions, and people dealt with life more reasonably, and now the social restrictions are very oppressive here. It's not from the government, but more from society in general. Some of them are caused by feminism, some by very exaggerated fear of crime, etc.

                    In my mother's time, schoolteachers could have two kids on their laps and one hanging off their necks, while today a primary school teacher I know says that if a 7-year-old runs up and hugs him, he holds his arms out like Christ crucified, because if he pats the child on the head or shoulder, a teacher passing by may see it and report him. Very weird.

                    I'm rambling, but it's hard for me to identify why I could adjust to one thing here and not another.

                    Jamie

                    On Feb 15, 2012, at 4:52 PM, Kostas wrote:

                    > Jamie, but why did this issue played a role in your readjustment back to the US?
                    >
                    > K.
                    >
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Czechlist mailing list
                    > Czechlist@...
                    > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                    _______________________________________________
                    Czechlist mailing list
                    Czechlist@...
                    http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  • Petr
                    Pisete o ucitelich (m) nebo ucitelkach (f)? P. Adamek
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 17, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Pisete o ucitelich (m) nebo ucitelkach (f)?
                      P. Adamek

                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...>
                      >
                      > In my mother's time, schoolteachers could have two kids on their laps and one hanging off their necks, while today a primary school teacher I know says that if a 7-year-old runs up and hugs him, he holds his arms out like Christ crucified, because if he pats the child on the head or shoulder, a teacher passing by may see it and report him. Very weird.
                      >
                    • Hana Jarolímová
                      Rekla bych, ze to plati pro ucitele i ucitelky i tady v CR. Sahnes na dite v dobrem (pohladis ho), narknou te, ze jsi pedofil. Placnes ho po ruce, narknou te,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 17, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Rekla bych, ze to plati pro ucitele i ucitelky i tady v CR. Sahnes na
                        dite v dobrem (pohladis ho), narknou te, ze jsi pedofil. Placnes ho po
                        ruce, narknou te, ze dite tyras. Jakykoliv kontakt s ditetem je v
                        soucasnosti i pro ucitelky v materske skolce naproste tabu.
                        H


                        Dne 17.2.2012 11:04, Petr napsal(a):
                        > Pisete o ucitelich (m) nebo ucitelkach (f)?
                        > P. Adamek
                        >
                        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner<czechlist@...>
                        >> In my mother's time, schoolteachers could have two kids on their laps and one hanging off their necks, while today a primary school teacher I know says that if a 7-year-old runs up and hugs him, he holds his arms out like Christ crucified, because if he pats the child on the head or shoulder, a teacher passing by may see it and report him. Very weird.
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Matej Klimes
                        In my/my kids experience, any contact is OK in kindergarten - teachers hold hands with kids, they hug each other, they help them with toilet matters, etc.. -
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 19, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In my/my kids' experience, any contact is OK in kindergarten - teachers
                          hold hands with kids, they hug each other, they help them with toilet
                          matters, etc.. - and our kids went to many different places, it depends
                          on the size of the place and the teacher's attitude, but no one had a
                          problem with normal physical contact

                          On the other hand, a friend who is a teacher told me that one of her
                          pupils - a little girl, probably around 7-8, shat herself (pardon the
                          expression, but that's what happened, quite dramatically, probably to
                          do with some sort of stomach flu or something).. Her teacher noticed,
                          it was beyond repair, so she took her to some place where she could
                          shower and gave her some spare clothes from somewhere, but she said she
                          was making sure she didn't help her getting her clothes off or shower
                          because she was afraid her parents might freak out and report her if
                          they found out - and she's a totally normal person, with grown-up kids,
                          her normal instinct with a small child would be to hold the shower and
                          help, the kid wasn't quite big enough to deal with it on her own and
                          she was stressed - now that's Americanisation for me..

                          On yet another hand, our son went to Waldorfska skola - sort of a
                          hippie/alternative school, close to what Brits call Stainer school - it
                          was in a small town, so it wasn't as hippie as they are in Prague, and
                          it always depends on the individual teachers anyway... he only spent
                          three years there because by then his teacher had some problems and
                          stopped teaching them, literally.. Until then he was pretty good and it
                          was certainly OK for any of the pupils to hug him.. BUT there was this
                          young teacher there, who taught English (very badly, he was a Czech and
                          totally unqualified), all the teachers would take turns minding the
                          kids out in the school grounds or in the 'druzina' after school until
                          parents picked them up or they went home (small town, none of that
                          Prague crime-freaking)... whenever we saw that young teacher, he'd
                          always have one or two girls sitting on his knee - and they were
                          probably 13-15, quite grown-up... they seemed to adore him and compete
                          for his attention, and it was very weird, not openly sexual, but on the
                          line... my wife talked to the school principal about it and it later
                          transpired that the teacher indeed had a problem of this sort and they
                          let him go...

                          It seems we're half way there, in some schools people are still
                          'normal' about these things, but the American way is creeping in,
                          probably because of media coverage and what not.. and it's probably
                          happening in normal life as well - if my younger son's friend had a
                          lavatory accident like that while he was at our place, I wouldn't have
                          a problem helping him the same way I would with my son, in fact I think
                          I have on occasion, but I think some uptight parents might behave like
                          that teacher 'just in case'...

                          Matej


                          ------ Original Message ------
                          From: "Hana Jarolímová" <jarolimo@...>
                          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: 17.2.2012 11:35:37
                          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Sociological question
                          > Rekla bych, ze to plati pro ucitele i ucitelky i tady v CR. Sahnes na
                          >dite v dobrem (pohladis ho), narknou te, ze jsi pedofil. Placnes ho po
                          >ruce, narknou te, ze dite tyras. Jakykoliv kontakt s ditetem je v
                          >soucasnosti i pro ucitelky v materske skolce naproste tabu.
                          >H
                          >
                          >Dne 17.2.2012 11:04, Petr napsal(a):
                          >> Pisete o ucitelich (m) nebo ucitelkach (f)?
                          >> P. Adamek
                          >>
                          >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner<czechlist@...>
                          >>> In my mother's time, schoolteachers could have two kids on their
                          >laps and one hanging off their necks, while today a primary school
                          >teacher I know says that if a 7-year-old runs up and hugs him, he
                          >holds his arms out like Christ crucified, because if he pats the child
                          >on the head or shoulder, a teacher passing by may see it and report
                          >him. Very weird.
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------------------------------
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6890
                          >(20120216) __________
                          >
                          >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                          >
                          >http://www.eset.cz/


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • James Kirchner
                          Matej, a Waldorf school and a Steiner school are the same thing. The Waldorf schools were started by a philosopher of some kind named Rudolf Steiner. Funny
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 19, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Matej, a Waldorf school and a Steiner school are the same thing. The Waldorf schools were started by a philosopher of some kind named Rudolf Steiner.

                            Funny you should mention the teacher with the young girls on his lap. Once I had to chaperone a school tour of Moravian wineries for children 14 to 18 years old, where they all got outrageously drunk, and no one cared. On the bus ride home, some beautiful young thing decided to sit on my lap for a good deal of the trip. I pointed out to her that there was an empty seat next to me, but she insisted that my lap was the only position from which she could talk to both teachers. The other teacher didn't seem bothered by this, so I just let her sit there until she got tired of it. I thought she was 15, but recently one of the boys from the class told me she was older when she started high school and was likely about 19 when she did that. Anyway, I appeared to be the only one on the bus who had a problem with it. I didn't find it unpleasant, but I found it improper.

                            Once the bookkeeper, a proper middle-aged woman, asked me for my personal information so she could see if she needed to revise it for tax purposes. She said, "You're divorced, right?" I said I was single, and she was so surprised that she made sure I understood the difference between the words "svobodny" and "rozvedeny". When she was convinced that I understood the words, she said, in all seriousness, "So, you're single. But at this school, it's not like you don't have a choice!" This woman, like many Czechs I ran into, thought the high school was a good place for a 39-year-old man to shop for a wife. In the US, such a notion would be considered quite perverted, but on the other hand, as exchange students confirmed on their return, an American 18-year-old is approximately equivalent to a Czech 12-year-old.

                            Another shock to me was when 15- or 16-year-old girls in my classes had boyfriends who were in their late 20s, and their mothers seemed to approve of it. When I got back home, a Serbian-American woman who had lived similarly in the US explained to me that a 15-year-old and a 27-year-old can get the girl in the same kind of trouble, but only the 27-year-old can assume responsibility for it. It had its logic.

                            Jamie

                            On Feb 19, 2012, at 6:37 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                            > In my/my kids' experience, any contact is OK in kindergarten - teachers
                            > hold hands with kids, they hug each other, they help them with toilet
                            > matters, etc.. - and our kids went to many different places, it depends
                            > on the size of the place and the teacher's attitude, but no one had a
                            > problem with normal physical contact
                            >
                            > On the other hand, a friend who is a teacher told me that one of her
                            > pupils - a little girl, probably around 7-8, shat herself (pardon the
                            > expression, but that's what happened, quite dramatically, probably to
                            > do with some sort of stomach flu or something).. Her teacher noticed,
                            > it was beyond repair, so she took her to some place where she could
                            > shower and gave her some spare clothes from somewhere, but she said she
                            > was making sure she didn't help her getting her clothes off or shower
                            > because she was afraid her parents might freak out and report her if
                            > they found out - and she's a totally normal person, with grown-up kids,
                            > her normal instinct with a small child would be to hold the shower and
                            > help, the kid wasn't quite big enough to deal with it on her own and
                            > she was stressed - now that's Americanisation for me..
                            >
                            > On yet another hand, our son went to Waldorfska skola - sort of a
                            > hippie/alternative school, close to what Brits call Stainer school - it
                            > was in a small town, so it wasn't as hippie as they are in Prague, and
                            > it always depends on the individual teachers anyway... he only spent
                            > three years there because by then his teacher had some problems and
                            > stopped teaching them, literally.. Until then he was pretty good and it
                            > was certainly OK for any of the pupils to hug him.. BUT there was this
                            > young teacher there, who taught English (very badly, he was a Czech and
                            > totally unqualified), all the teachers would take turns minding the
                            > kids out in the school grounds or in the 'druzina' after school until
                            > parents picked them up or they went home (small town, none of that
                            > Prague crime-freaking)... whenever we saw that young teacher, he'd
                            > always have one or two girls sitting on his knee - and they were
                            > probably 13-15, quite grown-up... they seemed to adore him and compete
                            > for his attention, and it was very weird, not openly sexual, but on the
                            > line... my wife talked to the school principal about it and it later
                            > transpired that the teacher indeed had a problem of this sort and they
                            > let him go...
                            >
                            > It seems we're half way there, in some schools people are still
                            > 'normal' about these things, but the American way is creeping in,
                            > probably because of media coverage and what not.. and it's probably
                            > happening in normal life as well - if my younger son's friend had a
                            > lavatory accident like that while he was at our place, I wouldn't have
                            > a problem helping him the same way I would with my son, in fact I think
                            > I have on occasion, but I think some uptight parents might behave like
                            > that teacher 'just in case'...
                            >
                            > Matej

                            _______________________________________________
                            Czechlist mailing list
                            Czechlist@...
                            http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.