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Re: "Call us on"

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  • Melvyn
    Best definition of uptalk that I have heard is an intonationalized you know? Not so bizarre among those born since the seventies, apparently.
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 27, 2011
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      Best definition of "uptalk" that I have heard is "an intonationalized 'you know?'" Not so bizarre among those born since the seventies, apparently.
      http://phonetic-blog.blogspot.com/2010/05/uptalk-in-papers.html

      And I read somewhere that it caught on in Britain due to nationwide broadcasting of regional soap operas, e.g. from Liverpool, wier dey all speak like dat. Not to mention Brummies:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29623
      :-) and remember Shakespeare spoke that way (see relevant Dr Who episode for proof).

      And I remember an old joke from an American colleague about how the Confederates lost the civil war because of their upspeak. Nobody could tell when Robert E. Lee and his fellow generals were giving orders...Left? Right? (Puzzled expressions from soldiers.) About turn? Quick march? Charge?

      BR

      M.




      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gerry, I've got news for you. That upward intonation at the end of an affirmative sentence bothers us Americans a lot too. It sounds childish. Don't think every annoying linguistic phenomenon from America is normal here or not annoying to Americans. :-)
      >
    • James Kirchner
      There is a joke that Canada got its name because the founding fathers put slips of paper with the alphabet in a hat, drew them out randomly and read them as a
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 27, 2011
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        There is a joke that Canada got its name because the founding fathers put slips of paper with the alphabet in a hat, drew them out randomly and read them as a secretary noted them down:

        "C, eh?"
        "N, eh?"
        "D, eh?"

        Jamie

        On Dec 27, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Melvyn wrote:

        > And I remember an old joke from an American colleague about how the Confederates lost the civil war because of their upspeak. Nobody could tell when Robert E. Lee and his fellow generals were giving orders...Left? Right? (Puzzled expressions from soldiers.) About turn? Quick march? Charge?

        _______________________________________________
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      • Melvyn
        ... Do Canadians really say eh a lot? I have never noticed it. Version I heard was that in the language of the coastal Injuns (or whatever it is you are not
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 27, 2011
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          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
          >
          > There is a joke that Canada got its name because the founding fathers put slips of paper with the alphabet in a hat, drew them out randomly and read them as a secretary noted them down:
          >
          > "C, eh?"
          > "N, eh?"
          > "D, eh?"

          Do Canadians really say "eh" a lot? I have never noticed it.

          Version I heard was that in the language of the coastal Injuns (or whatever it is you are not supposed to call them) Canada meant "go away" or cruder words to that effect, and that is what the founding fathers heard when they first landed and asked "eh, what is the name of this land?"

          But somebody on this list shot that theory down in flames some time ago. Probably you actually.

          BR

          M.
        • Melvyn
          ... Another vote for on . BR M.
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 27, 2011
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            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
            >
            > Do the British say, "Call us on [phone number],

            Another vote for "on".

            BR

            M.
          • James Kirchner
            The word Canada comes from a word in the St. Lawrence Iroquoian language that means village or settlement . Those of us who live near Canada notice how much
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 27, 2011
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              The word Canada comes from a word in the St. Lawrence Iroquoian language that means "village" or "settlement".

              Those of us who live near Canada notice how much they end utterances with "eh?", but they don't do that any more than we finish ours with, "Y'know?"

              If you go to some parts of the South where people talk more slowly, they stretch "y'know?" out to an entire sentence: "Y'know what I mean?" It took me a couple months to realize my painting professor from North Carolina didn't expect an answer to the question.

              Jamie

              On Dec 27, 2011, at 3:52 PM, Melvyn wrote:

              >
              >
              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> There is a joke that Canada got its name because the founding fathers put slips of paper with the alphabet in a hat, drew them out randomly and read them as a secretary noted them down:
              >>
              >> "C, eh?"
              >> "N, eh?"
              >> "D, eh?"
              >
              > Do Canadians really say "eh" a lot? I have never noticed it.
              >
              > Version I heard was that in the language of the coastal Injuns (or whatever it is you are not supposed to call them) Canada meant "go away" or cruder words to that effect, and that is what the founding fathers heard when they first landed and asked "eh, what is the name of this land?"
              >
              > But somebody on this list shot that theory down in flames some time ago. Probably you actually.
              >
              > BR
              >
              > M.
              >
              > _______________________________________________
              > Czechlist mailing list
              > Czechlist@...
              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


              _______________________________________________
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            • James Kirchner
              In North America you call someone on a device but at a number. In a British ESL book I had to use in the Czech Republic, a job interviewer asked a man,
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 28, 2011
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                In North America you call someone "on" a device but "at" a number.

                In a British ESL book I had to use in the Czech Republic, a job interviewer asked a man, "Are you on the phone?" In North America that means, "Are you using the phone to talk to someone right this moment?" but I guess in the book it was supposed to mean, "What is your phone number?"

                Jamie

                On Dec 27, 2011, at 3:58 PM, Melvyn wrote:

                >
                >
                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Do the British say, "Call us on [phone number],
                >
                > Another vote for "on".
                >
                > BR
                >
                > M.
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > Czechlist mailing list
                > Czechlist@...
                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                _______________________________________________
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              • Gerald Turner
                No, it would mean: do you have a telephone? I.e. are you connected to the telephone network? Gerry ... -- 7 Old Shoreham Road Brighton Sussex BN1 5DQ U.K.
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 28, 2011
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                  No, it would mean: do you have a telephone? I.e. are you connected to the
                  telephone network?

                  Gerry

                  On 28 December 2011 12:17, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > In North America you call someone "on" a device but "at" a number.
                  >
                  > In a British ESL book I had to use in the Czech Republic, a job
                  > interviewer asked a man, "Are you on the phone?" In North America that
                  > means, "Are you using the phone to talk to someone right this moment?" but
                  > I guess in the book it was supposed to mean, "What is your phone number?"
                  >
                  > Jamie
                  >
                  >
                  > On Dec 27, 2011, at 3:58 PM, Melvyn wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> Do the British say, "Call us on [phone number],
                  > >
                  > > Another vote for "on".
                  > >
                  > > BR
                  > >
                  > > M.
                  > >
                  > > _______________________________________________
                  > > Czechlist mailing list
                  > > Czechlist@...
                  > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >
                  > _______________________________________________
                  > Czechlist mailing list
                  > Czechlist@...
                  > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  7 Old Shoreham Road
                  Brighton
                  Sussex
                  BN1 5DQ
                  U.K.

                  Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484

                  To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                  And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                  Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                  And Eternity in an hour.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Valerie Talacko
                  It can mean either in BE - are you talking/are you connected. I think it s usually clear from the context. We re not on the phone as in we re not connected
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 28, 2011
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                    It can mean either in BE - are you talking/are you connected. I think
                    it's usually clear from the context.

                    "We're not on the phone" as in "we're not connected to the network" is
                    largely being replaced by "we haven't got a land line," though.

                    Another vote for calling someone on a number in BE - I think this has
                    come up before.

                    Valerie



                    On Wed, 2011-12-28 at 12:23 +0000, Gerald Turner wrote:
                    >
                    > No, it would mean: do you have a telephone? I.e. are you connected to
                    > the
                    > telephone network?
                    >
                    > Gerry
                    >
                    > On 28 December 2011 12:17, James Kirchner <czechlist@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > In North America you call someone "on" a device but "at" a number.
                    > >
                    > > In a British ESL book I had to use in the Czech Republic, a job
                    > > interviewer asked a man, "Are you on the phone?" In North America
                    > that
                    > > means, "Are you using the phone to talk to someone right this
                    > moment?" but
                    > > I guess in the book it was supposed to mean, "What is your phone
                    > number?"
                    > >
                    > > Jamie
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Dec 27, 2011, at 3:58 PM, Melvyn wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Do the British say, "Call us on [phone number],
                    > > >
                    > > > Another vote for "on".
                    > > >
                    > > > BR
                    > > >
                    > > > M.
                    > > >
                    > > > _______________________________________________
                    > > > Czechlist mailing list
                    > > > Czechlist@...
                    > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    > >
                    > > _______________________________________________
                    > > Czechlist mailing list
                    > > Czechlist@...
                    > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > 7 Old Shoreham Road
                    > Brighton
                    > Sussex
                    > BN1 5DQ
                    > U.K.
                    >
                    > Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484
                    >
                    > To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                    > And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                    > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                    > And Eternity in an hour.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Josef Hlavac
                    Am I correct in thinking that one would nevertheless be on Facebook , meaning that one has a Facebook account (and not necessarily using it right now)? Josef
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 28, 2011
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                      Am I correct in thinking that one would nevertheless "be on Facebook",
                      meaning that one has a Facebook account (and not necessarily using it
                      right now)?

                      Josef

                      On 28.12.2011 13:17, James Kirchner wrote:
                      > In North America you call someone "on" a device but "at" a number.
                      >
                      > In a British ESL book I had to use in the Czech Republic, a job interviewer asked a man, "Are you on the phone?" In North America that means, "Are you using the phone to talk to someone right this moment?" but I guess in the book it was supposed to mean, "What is your phone number?"
                      >
                      > Jamie
                      >
                      >

                      _______________________________________________
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                      http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    • Petr
                      Tak to taky delaji politici v televiznich talk-show, aby jim moderator jejich rec neutnul. (Nezvedaji hlas jako otazku, ale jako ze dal pokracuje dlouhe
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 28, 2011
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                        Tak to taky delaji politici v televiznich talk-show, aby jim moderator jejich rec neutnul. (Nezvedaji hlas jako otazku, ale jako ze dal pokracuje dlouhe souveti.) :-)
                        Petr A,
                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                        > In my linguistics courses in graduate school, we figured out that upward intonation is a strategy devised by children to keep from being interrupted. Kids can't tell stories very well, so to keep the listener's attention they raise the pitch at the end of each sentence, making it sound like a question and preventing the listener from butting in.
                      • Gerald Turner
                        In the UK it could mean both depending on the context. Gerry ... -- 7 Old Shoreham Road Brighton Sussex BN1 5DQ U.K. Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484 To see a World
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 28, 2011
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                          In the UK it could mean both depending on the context.

                          Gerry

                          On 28 December 2011 12:38, Josef Hlavac <joe@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > Am I correct in thinking that one would nevertheless "be on Facebook",
                          > meaning that one has a Facebook account (and not necessarily using it
                          > right now)?
                          >
                          > Josef
                          >
                          >
                          > On 28.12.2011 13:17, James Kirchner wrote:
                          > > In North America you call someone "on" a device but "at" a number.
                          > >
                          > > In a British ESL book I had to use in the Czech Republic, a job
                          > interviewer asked a man, "Are you on the phone?" In North America that
                          > means, "Are you using the phone to talk to someone right this moment?" but
                          > I guess in the book it was supposed to mean, "What is your phone number?"
                          > >
                          > > Jamie
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > _______________________________________________
                          > Czechlist mailing list
                          > Czechlist@...
                          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          --
                          7 Old Shoreham Road
                          Brighton
                          Sussex
                          BN1 5DQ
                          U.K.

                          Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484

                          To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                          And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                          Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                          And Eternity in an hour.


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • James Kirchner
                          Yes. That s right. Possibly because Facebook is viewed on a monitor, and things viewed on monitors are like TV shows. People are on TV shows, but in
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 28, 2011
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                            Yes. That's right. Possibly because Facebook is viewed on a monitor, and things viewed on monitors are like TV shows. People are "on" TV shows, but "in" stage shows, but "on" stage.

                            Complicated enough for you? :-)

                            Jamie

                            On Dec 28, 2011, at 7:38 AM, Josef Hlavac wrote:

                            > Am I correct in thinking that one would nevertheless "be on Facebook", meaning that one has a Facebook account (and not necessarily using it right now)?
                            >
                            > Josef
                            >
                            > On 28.12.2011 13:17, James Kirchner wrote:
                            >> In North America you call someone "on" a device but "at" a number.
                            >>
                            >> In a British ESL book I had to use in the Czech Republic, a job interviewer asked a man, "Are you on the phone?" In North America that means, "Are you using the phone to talk to someone right this moment?" but I guess in the book it was supposed to mean, "What is your phone number?"
                            >>
                            >> Jamie
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            > _______________________________________________
                            > Czechlist mailing list
                            > Czechlist@...
                            > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                            _______________________________________________
                            Czechlist mailing list
                            Czechlist@...
                            http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          • Josef Hlavac
                            Thank you for confirming - and for the enlightenment, too. J. ... _______________________________________________ Czechlist mailing list
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 28, 2011
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                              Thank you for confirming - and for the enlightenment, too.
                              J.

                              On 28.12.2011 15:51, James Kirchner wrote:
                              > Yes. That's right. Possibly because Facebook is viewed on a monitor, and things viewed on monitors are like TV shows. People are "on" TV shows, but "in" stage shows, but "on" stage.
                              >
                              > Complicated enough for you? :-)
                              >
                              > Jamie
                              >
                              > On Dec 28, 2011, at 7:38 AM, Josef Hlavac wrote:
                              >
                              >> Am I correct in thinking that one would nevertheless "be on Facebook", meaning that one has a Facebook account (and not necessarily using it right now)?
                              >>
                              >> Josef
                              >>
                              >> On 28.12.2011 13:17, James Kirchner wrote:
                              >>> In North America you call someone "on" a device but "at" a number.
                              >>>
                              >>> In a British ESL book I had to use in the Czech Republic, a job interviewer asked a man, "Are you on the phone?" In North America that means, "Are you using the phone to talk to someone right this moment?" but I guess in the book it was supposed to mean, "What is your phone number?"
                              >>>
                              >>> Jamie
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >> _______________________________________________
                              >> Czechlist mailing list
                              >> Czechlist@...
                              >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >
                              > _______________________________________________
                              > Czechlist mailing list
                              > Czechlist@...
                              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist

                              _______________________________________________
                              Czechlist mailing list
                              Czechlist@...
                              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            • Matej Klimes
                              I really don t mean to nit pick or pick a fight Jamie, I m genuinely interested why you d want to say: That and other childish linguistic annoyances tend to
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 29, 2011
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                                I really don't mean to nit pick or pick a fight Jamie, I'm genuinely
                                interested why you'd want to say:

                                "That and other childish linguistic annoyances tend to go away here
                                within a year after the *person gets her * first serious job."

                                Obviously, as a non-native, I'm not going to tell you that's wrong or
                                what I would say and why, but why *her*..

                                - do you think of 'person' as feminine, or is it just to make it
                                different from the usual his (only his representing both sexes),
                                obviously to avoid his/her as too clumsy, why not their, etc?

                                Matej





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Stephan von Pohl
                                I ve been having trouble posting on Czechlist. Is this working? Stephan
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 29, 2011
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                                  I've been having trouble posting on Czechlist. Is this working?

                                  Stephan

                                  On 12/29/2011 11:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                  > I really don't mean to nit pick or pick a fight Jamie, I'm genuinely
                                  > interested why you'd want to say:
                                  >
                                  > "That and other childish linguistic annoyances tend to go away here
                                  > within a year after the *person gets her * first serious job."
                                  >
                                  > Obviously, as a non-native, I'm not going to tell you that's wrong or
                                  > what I would say and why, but why *her*..
                                  >
                                  > - do you think of 'person' as feminine, or is it just to make it
                                  > different from the usual his (only his representing both sexes),
                                  > obviously to avoid his/her as too clumsy, why not their, etc?
                                  >
                                  > Matej
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Melvyn
                                  ... Receiving you loud and clear. BR M.
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Dec 29, 2011
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                                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I've been having trouble posting on Czechlist. Is this working?

                                    Receiving you loud and clear.

                                    BR

                                    M.
                                  • Gerald Turner
                                    I received it. Happy new year, Gerry ... -- 7 Old Shoreham Road Brighton Sussex BN1 5DQ U.K. Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484 To see a World in a Grain of Sand And a
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Dec 29, 2011
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                                      I received it.

                                      Happy new year,

                                      Gerry

                                      On 29 December 2011 10:17, Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...> wrote:

                                      > **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I've been having trouble posting on Czechlist. Is this working?
                                      >
                                      > Stephan
                                      >
                                      > On 12/29/2011 11:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                      > > I really don't mean to nit pick or pick a fight Jamie, I'm genuinely
                                      > > interested why you'd want to say:
                                      > >
                                      > > "That and other childish linguistic annoyances tend to go away here
                                      > > within a year after the *person gets her * first serious job."
                                      > >
                                      > > Obviously, as a non-native, I'm not going to tell you that's wrong or
                                      > > what I would say and why, but why *her*..
                                      > >
                                      > > - do you think of 'person' as feminine, or is it just to make it
                                      > > different from the usual his (only his representing both sexes),
                                      > > obviously to avoid his/her as too clumsy, why not their, etc?
                                      > >
                                      > > Matej
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >



                                      --
                                      7 Old Shoreham Road
                                      Brighton
                                      Sussex
                                      BN1 5DQ
                                      U.K.

                                      Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484

                                      To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                                      And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                                      Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                                      And Eternity in an hour.


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Stephan von Pohl
                                      Thanks, I was getting the feeling that my messages weren t going through.
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Dec 29, 2011
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                                        Thanks, I was getting the feeling that my messages weren't going through.

                                        On 12/29/2011 11:34 AM, Gerald Turner wrote:
                                        > I received it.
                                        >
                                        > Happy new year,
                                        >
                                        > Gerry
                                        >
                                        > On 29 December 2011 10:17, Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...
                                        > <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > **
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > I've been having trouble posting on Czechlist. Is this working?
                                        > >
                                        > > Stephan
                                        > >
                                        > > On 12/29/2011 11:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                        > > > I really don't mean to nit pick or pick a fight Jamie, I'm genuinely
                                        > > > interested why you'd want to say:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "That and other childish linguistic annoyances tend to go away here
                                        > > > within a year after the *person gets her * first serious job."
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Obviously, as a non-native, I'm not going to tell you that's wrong or
                                        > > > what I would say and why, but why *her*..
                                        > > >
                                        > > > - do you think of 'person' as feminine, or is it just to make it
                                        > > > different from the usual his (only his representing both sexes),
                                        > > > obviously to avoid his/her as too clumsy, why not their, etc?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Matej
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > 7 Old Shoreham Road
                                        > Brighton
                                        > Sussex
                                        > BN1 5DQ
                                        > U.K.
                                        >
                                        > Tel/fax: ++ 44 1273208484
                                        >
                                        > To see a World in a Grain of Sand
                                        > And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
                                        > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
                                        > And Eternity in an hour.
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Melvyn
                                        ... If in doubt check the archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/messages BR M.
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Dec 29, 2011
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                                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Thanks, I was getting the feeling that my messages weren't going through.

                                          If in doubt check the archives:
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/messages

                                          BR

                                          M.
                                        • James Kirchner
                                          It s because in my experience there are certain speech habits that are more commonly or even exclusively picked up by girls and women. For example, the style
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Dec 29, 2011
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                                            It's because in my experience there are certain speech habits that are more commonly or even exclusively picked up by girls and women.

                                            For example, the style of speech called "Valley Girl" in the 1980s was exclusively a female phenomenon, and it was young women who came into the adult workplace after university having to lose it. (There was a style at the time that was not quite "Valley Girl" that I used to call "a Canadian sucking on a piece of hard candy" that young women similarly had to eradicate to be taken seriously at work.)

                                            I remember once hearing a TV news report on some grave event that was reported by a very rare reporter who hadn't lost her "Valley" speech, and it was shocking, because it gave the overall impression that she wasn't taking the event seriously, even though she was. You could see that the anchor people in the studio had picked up on the problem also.

                                            A current speech phenomenon among young American women is what some phonologists call "creaky voice". It's exactly what the term sounds like it means, and it's an actual standard part of the phonology of languages, like Hmong. In its current American form it makes the woman sound (to me) like a purring actress in a 1950s film trying to entice a man into bed. You can hear that style of "creaky voice" in this video:
                                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWAgt_YCNuw
                                            You won't find any young men talking like that. Girls like the one in the video will probably have to lose that if they get serious jobs.

                                            It's well known by speech coaches and angry feminists that the phenomenon of raising one's voice an octave and raising the pitch at the end of sentences to sound conciliatory, along with actually phrasing statements as questions, is mainly a problem of women. I have personally, at various corporations, taught women to stop talking that way (speak at their normal pitch and frame statements as statements) when people were wrongly but consistently dismissing what they had to say. Their problems went away when they spoke at their normal pitch and started telling the truth instead of "asking" the truth.

                                            So, yes, certain language fads are picked up more by young women, for whatever reason, and they're the ones who have to lose those habits in the workplace.

                                            Jamie

                                            On Dec 29, 2011, at 5:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                                            > I really don't mean to nit pick or pick a fight Jamie, I'm genuinely
                                            > interested why you'd want to say:
                                            >
                                            > "That and other childish linguistic annoyances tend to go away here
                                            > within a year after the *person gets her * first serious job."
                                            >
                                            > Obviously, as a non-native, I'm not going to tell you that's wrong or
                                            > what I would say and why, but why *her*..
                                            >
                                            > - do you think of 'person' as feminine, or is it just to make it
                                            > different from the usual his (only his representing both sexes),
                                            > obviously to avoid his/her as too clumsy, why not their, etc?
                                            >
                                            > Matej
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
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                                            > Czechlist@...
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                                          • Melvyn
                                            ... creaky voice in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWAgt_YCNuw You won t find any young men talking like that. Here are some young men using
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Dec 31, 2011
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                                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                                              >A current speech phenomenon among young American women is what some phonologists call "creaky voice". <snip> You can hear that style of
                                              "creaky voice" in this video:
                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWAgt_YCNuw
                                              You won't find any young men talking like that.

                                              Here are some young men using "creaky voice":

                                              http://dialectblog.com/2011/04/29/the-rise-of-creaky-voice/

                                              Here as elsewhere the phenomenon is particularly associated with Pacific Northwest speech:

                                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creaky_voice

                                              And I have also read repeatedly that it is a trademark of Bill Clinton (and the comedians who imitate him):
                                              "Bill brought the creak out of the vocal backwoods and gave it new respectability. Notable creakers like Eddie Murphy and John Travolta didn't sound so pretentious* anymore [...]
                                              More and more men in the media are going creaky. It won't be long before those of us with an ordinary voice will be outnumbered."
                                              http://squibbage.blogspot.com/2009/07/creaky-voice-craze.html

                                              Another creaky young gentleman for you
                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYNHUFgdpk4

                                              From my British viewpoint the weird thing is that I find this "vocal fry" to be a pretty routine part of just about everybody's expressive repertoire in Britain, whether RP or regional. What it actually expresses is a moot point. There must be a thesis in there for somebody. My theory is that it can often be used to express familiarity and "knowingness" - cue "the voice of experience", but in larger doses It can come over as self-absorbed and smug, or as a parody of self-absorption and smugness (check out Mr Bean and Kenneth Williams).

                                              So it strikes me as odd that young American women are being singled out here. I don't get it. Are they, too, perceived by some as *pretentious? Do they sound "uppity"?

                                              BR

                                              M.

                                              >Girls like the one in the video
                                              will probably have to lose that if they get serious jobs.
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