Re: [Czechlist] CHAT: Kritika Cechu
- In a message dated 1/2/01 12:01:28 AM, padamek@... writes:
>V obecne rovine bych chtel ke kritice Cechu ze strany cizincu pouzit totovychovavali
>"Chlapce, dekuji ti za pozvani. Pri obede jsem si vsiml, ze nevis, ze se
>ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umreli rodice a tebe
>v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdes na obed, tak toYes, this is the correct way to criticize a person or a nation.
>Co neberu:Yes, this is improper and can be the result of one of two things: (1) the
>"Tak si, pratele, predstavte, ze jsem byl u toho blbce z decaku na obede
>a on vubec nevi, ze se na ryby pouziva zvlastni pribor. Vidlicku drzi jako
>prase kost, a to si ten vul mysli, ze ho nekdy pozvu na obed, hohoho!"
person doing the criticizing may be primitive, or (2) the whole time he was
watching the Czech use the wrong eating utensil, the Czech was arrogantly
going on about how primitive Americans are, how culturally superior Czechs
are to them, how vulgar American TV is (not acknowledging the far greater
degree of obscenity now present on Czech TV), how Americans are idiots
because they have no beer culture, how we are poorly educated, how American
cuisine (or as some Czechs like to call it, "American kitchen") consists only
of hamburgers, and my favorite misconception that some Czechs repeatedly
assert -- how Americans always talk about sex but never actually engage in it.
I see my own behavior in both methods you've presented. I guess for most
Czechs I deal with things in terms of polite correction, but when I encounter
the type of Czech who has an aggressive superiority complex that comes from a
severe inferiority complex, I am liable to respond sarcastically. It's not
right for me to act that way, but I sometimes do.
- Hello Petr, Tomas, Jamie and all,
>V obecne rovine bych chtel ke kritice Cechu ze strany cizincu pouzittoto prirovnani:
>Co beru:vsiml, ze nevis, ze se
>"Chlapce, dekuji ti za pozvani. Pri obede jsem si
>ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umrelirodice a tebe
>v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdesna obed, tak to
>vedet musis."Jamie wrote:
>Yes, this is the correct way to criticize a person or a nation.Well, yes, if the person(s) involved really did have some extenuating
circumstances in their
past. But what if the behaviour to be criticized stems from the
arrogance and presumption of
an upbringing within an empowered elite, (which can equally be the
case whether you are
Czech, British, American or whatever)?. (What if the orphanage
metaphor only applies
because the miscreant fish-knifed his parents:)?) My point is that if
you are speculating
about seemingly prevalent behaviour in a particular country, there
soon comes a time when
you have to stop talking in terms of nationality and start thinking in
terms of interest-groups,
pressure-groups, individuals, sexes, regions, constituencies, classes,
elites, cliques and so forth.
abych si to precetl cele, ale z toho, co Melvyn pretiskl, mam pocit,
ze se Pynsent vyziva v tom, jak je chytry a jak ty Cechy stira.
You have to bear in mind, Petr, that Robert Pynsent likes to cultivate
iconoclastic image with his apodictic pronouncements and categorical
utterances. It's all part
of his flamboyant style and you are not the first to comment on it.
>Pripomina mi naseho Jana Rejzka, ten je take nejchytrejsi na svete.Maybe the comparison is good. In amongst all his vacuous posturising,
Jan Rejzek occasionally does something useful like having a go at
Karel Gott, with whom many people are far
too polite IMNSHO. Pynsent can play a similar role.
Interesting, Tom, that you mention Ladislav Klima. I was surprised at
first that Dr Pynsent did
not bring him up as one of the great writers to emerge from the Czech
lands because (did
you notice?) his entire style and presentation seems to be imbued with
Klima's playful deconstruction and sloganizing, do-it-yourself cosmic
worldview, apodictic, categorical and often playfully contradictory
utterances etc etc. It can be amusing in a newspaper article. I know
for a fact that Pynsent is a big fan of L. Klima because I spent many
happy hours with him at SSEES in the early eighties preparing my
dissertation on Klima's work.
>Co neberu:z decaku na obede
>"Tak si, pratele, predstavte, ze jsem byl u toho blbce
>a on vubec nevi, ze se na ryby pouziva zvlastni pribor.Vidlicku drzi jako
>prase kost, a to si ten vul mysli, ze ho nekdy pozvu naobed, hohoho!"
>Yes, this is improper and can be the result of one oftwo things: (1) the
person doing the criticizing may be primitive, or (2)
the whole time he was
watching the Czech use the wrong eating utensil, the
Czech was arrogantly
going on about how primitive Americans are, <snip>
Comments like that just sound to me again like somebody making
for the sake of effect. I'd either treat them on that level if humour
or 'rejpani' (taunting?) is clearly
intended (which I find OK in small doses), or make it very clear that
seeking gets boring after a short while. I don't see the point of
getting hung up about people
who insist on seeing the world in national terms all the time.
My new year's resolution: definitely no more categorical statements!
- In a message dated 1/3/01 7:49:36 AM, zehrovak@... writes:
>My new year's resolution: definitely no more categorical statements!I categorically agree!