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Re: [Czechlist] CHAT: Kritika Cechu

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  • Zdenek Bobek
    ... ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umreli rodice a tebe vychovavali v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdes na obed, tak to
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 2, 2001
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      Petr Adamek wrote:

      > V obecne rovine bych chtel ke kritice Cechu ze strany cizincu pouzit toto
      prirovnani:
      > Co beru:
      > "Chlapce, dekuji ti za pozvani. Pri obede jsem si vsiml, ze nevis, ze se
      ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umreli rodice a tebe
      vychovavali v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdes na obed,
      tak to vedet musis."
      > Co neberu:
      > "Tak si, pratele, predstavte, ze jsem byl u toho blbce z decaku na obede a
      on vubec nevi, ze se na ryby pouziva zvlastni pribor. Vidlicku drzi jako
      prase kost, a to si ten vul mysli, ze ho nekdy pozvu na obed, hohoho!"
      > Zdravi Petr Adamek

      Zaplat Pambu, ze sem uz pre lety zahodil vsechen ten slozitej vercajk, kerej
      Evropani a Americani davaj na stul, a kerej se nejvic se vseho podoby naradi
      v autooopravne a vydal se cestou podstatne jednodussi. Zeru hulkama a mam
      pokoj.
      Vyhody:
      1. svuj pribor muzu nosit sebou
      2. ostatnim to pripada jako uchylka asi jako je totalni vegetarianstvi nebo
      uplna abstinence, homosexualita nebo vlasy obarveny na zeleno a tudis mi do
      toho nekecaj, protoze "blaznum se nema odporovat"
      3. na vandru si u muzu loveckym nozem vyrobit tolik priboru kolik chci behem
      5 minut
      4. kazdy to chce zkusit a uzije si pritom spostu srandy

      Preju vsem Stastny a vesely novy rok 2001. Budte zdravi a v pohode. Mejte
      hodne kseftu, drzte ceny nahore a nenechte se rozhazet, minimalne pulka
      lidi, kery potkavate jsou stejne blbejsi nez vy.

      Mam vas rad vy bando ukecana

      Bob
    • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
      ... vychovavali ... Yes, this is the correct way to criticize a person or a nation. ... Yes, this is improper and can be the result of one of two things: (1)
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 2, 2001
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        In a message dated 1/2/01 12:01:28 AM, padamek@... writes:

        >V obecne rovine bych chtel ke kritice Cechu ze strany cizincu pouzit toto
        >prirovnani:
        >Co beru:
        >"Chlapce, dekuji ti za pozvani. Pri obede jsem si vsiml, ze nevis, ze se
        >ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umreli rodice a tebe
        vychovavali
        >v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdes na obed, tak to
        >vedet musis."

        Yes, this is the correct way to criticize a person or a nation.

        >Co neberu:
        >"Tak si, pratele, predstavte, ze jsem byl u toho blbce z decaku na obede
        >a on vubec nevi, ze se na ryby pouziva zvlastni pribor. Vidlicku drzi jako
        >prase kost, a to si ten vul mysli, ze ho nekdy pozvu na obed, hohoho!"

        Yes, this is improper and can be the result of one of two things: (1) the
        person doing the criticizing may be primitive, or (2) the whole time he was
        watching the Czech use the wrong eating utensil, the Czech was arrogantly
        going on about how primitive Americans are, how culturally superior Czechs
        are to them, how vulgar American TV is (not acknowledging the far greater
        degree of obscenity now present on Czech TV), how Americans are idiots
        because they have no beer culture, how we are poorly educated, how American
        cuisine (or as some Czechs like to call it, "American kitchen") consists only
        of hamburgers, and my favorite misconception that some Czechs repeatedly
        assert -- how Americans always talk about sex but never actually engage in it.

        I see my own behavior in both methods you've presented. I guess for most
        Czechs I deal with things in terms of polite correction, but when I encounter
        the type of Czech who has an aggressive superiority complex that comes from a
        severe inferiority complex, I am liable to respond sarcastically. It's not
        right for me to act that way, but I sometimes do.

        Jamie
      • Melvyn Clarke
        Hello Petr, Tomas, Jamie and all, ... vsiml, ze nevis, ze se ... rodice a tebe vychovavali ... na obed, tak to ... Well, yes, if the person(s) involved really
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 3, 2001
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          Hello Petr, Tomas, Jamie and all,

          Petr wrote:
          >V obecne rovine bych chtel ke kritice Cechu ze strany cizincu pouzit
          toto prirovnani:

          >Co beru:
          >"Chlapce, dekuji ti za pozvani. Pri obede jsem si
          vsiml, ze nevis, ze se
          >ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umreli
          rodice a tebe
          vychovavali
          >v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdes
          na obed, tak to
          >vedet musis."

          Jamie wrote:
          >Yes, this is the correct way to criticize a person or a nation.

          Well, yes, if the person(s) involved really did have some extenuating
          circumstances in their
          past. But what if the behaviour to be criticized stems from the
          arrogance and presumption of
          an upbringing within an empowered elite, (which can equally be the
          case whether you are
          Czech, British, American or whatever)?. (What if the orphanage
          metaphor only applies
          because the miscreant fish-knifed his parents:)?) My point is that if
          you are speculating
          about seemingly prevalent behaviour in a particular country, there
          soon comes a time when
          you have to stop talking in terms of nationality and start thinking in
          terms of interest-groups,
          pressure-groups, individuals, sexes, regions, constituencies, classes,
          elites, cliques and so forth.



          Petr continued:

          abych si to precetl cele, ale z toho, co Melvyn pretiskl, mam pocit,
          ze se Pynsent vyziva v tom, jak je chytry a jak ty Cechy stira.

          You have to bear in mind, Petr, that Robert Pynsent likes to cultivate
          a larger-than-life
          iconoclastic image with his apodictic pronouncements and categorical
          utterances. It's all part
          of his flamboyant style and you are not the first to comment on it.

          >Pripomina mi naseho Jana Rejzka, ten je take nejchytrejsi na svete.

          Maybe the comparison is good. In amongst all his vacuous posturising,
          Jan Rejzek occasionally does something useful like having a go at
          Karel Gott, with whom many people are far
          too polite IMNSHO. Pynsent can play a similar role.

          Interesting, Tom, that you mention Ladislav Klima. I was surprised at
          first that Dr Pynsent did
          not bring him up as one of the great writers to emerge from the Czech
          lands because (did
          you notice?) his entire style and presentation seems to be imbued with
          Klima's playful deconstruction and sloganizing, do-it-yourself cosmic
          worldview, apodictic, categorical and often playfully contradictory
          utterances etc etc. It can be amusing in a newspaper article. I know
          for a fact that Pynsent is a big fan of L. Klima because I spent many
          happy hours with him at SSEES in the early eighties preparing my
          dissertation on Klima's work.

          Petr wrote:

          >Co neberu:
          >"Tak si, pratele, predstavte, ze jsem byl u toho blbce
          z decaku na obede
          >a on vubec nevi, ze se na ryby pouziva zvlastni pribor.
          Vidlicku drzi jako
          >prase kost, a to si ten vul mysli, ze ho nekdy pozvu na
          obed, hohoho!"

          Jamie commented:

          >Yes, this is improper and can be the result of one of
          two things: (1) the
          person doing the criticizing may be primitive, or (2)
          the whole time he was
          watching the Czech use the wrong eating utensil, the
          Czech was arrogantly
          going on about how primitive Americans are, <snip>

          Comments like that just sound to me again like somebody making
          categorical statements
          for the sake of effect. I'd either treat them on that level if humour
          or 'rejpani' (taunting?) is clearly
          intended (which I find OK in small doses), or make it very clear that
          non-stop sensation-
          seeking gets boring after a short while. I don't see the point of
          getting hung up about people
          who insist on seeing the world in national terms all the time.

          My new year's resolution: definitely no more categorical statements!

          Melvyn
        • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
          ... I categorically agree!
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 3, 2001
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            In a message dated 1/3/01 7:49:36 AM, zehrovak@... writes:

            >My new year's resolution: definitely no more categorical statements!

            I categorically agree!
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