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Re: [Czechlist] CHAT: Kritika Cechu

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  • Zdenek Bobek
    ... ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umreli rodice a tebe vychovavali v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdes na obed, tak to
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 2, 2001
      Petr Adamek wrote:

      > V obecne rovine bych chtel ke kritice Cechu ze strany cizincu pouzit toto
      prirovnani:
      > Co beru:
      > "Chlapce, dekuji ti za pozvani. Pri obede jsem si vsiml, ze nevis, ze se
      ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umreli rodice a tebe
      vychovavali v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdes na obed,
      tak to vedet musis."
      > Co neberu:
      > "Tak si, pratele, predstavte, ze jsem byl u toho blbce z decaku na obede a
      on vubec nevi, ze se na ryby pouziva zvlastni pribor. Vidlicku drzi jako
      prase kost, a to si ten vul mysli, ze ho nekdy pozvu na obed, hohoho!"
      > Zdravi Petr Adamek

      Zaplat Pambu, ze sem uz pre lety zahodil vsechen ten slozitej vercajk, kerej
      Evropani a Americani davaj na stul, a kerej se nejvic se vseho podoby naradi
      v autooopravne a vydal se cestou podstatne jednodussi. Zeru hulkama a mam
      pokoj.
      Vyhody:
      1. svuj pribor muzu nosit sebou
      2. ostatnim to pripada jako uchylka asi jako je totalni vegetarianstvi nebo
      uplna abstinence, homosexualita nebo vlasy obarveny na zeleno a tudis mi do
      toho nekecaj, protoze "blaznum se nema odporovat"
      3. na vandru si u muzu loveckym nozem vyrobit tolik priboru kolik chci behem
      5 minut
      4. kazdy to chce zkusit a uzije si pritom spostu srandy

      Preju vsem Stastny a vesely novy rok 2001. Budte zdravi a v pohode. Mejte
      hodne kseftu, drzte ceny nahore a nenechte se rozhazet, minimalne pulka
      lidi, kery potkavate jsou stejne blbejsi nez vy.

      Mam vas rad vy bando ukecana

      Bob
    • Otto Pacholik
      Vzhledem k zamindrakovanosti velke casti ceske populace bych se domnival (velka vetsina z nas si totiz opravdu mysli, ze jsme ti nejchytrejsi v Evrope, pokud
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 2, 2001
        Vzhledem k zamindrakovanosti velke casti ceske populace bych se domnival
        (velka vetsina z nas si totiz opravdu mysli, ze jsme ti nejchytrejsi v
        Evrope, pokud ne zrovna na celem svete), ze i nevinne myslene pripominky,
        resp. dobre myslenou kritiku typu:

        > "Chlapce, dekuji ti za pozvani. Pri obede jsem si vsiml, ze
        > nevis, ze se ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy
        > umreli rodice a tebe vychovavali v detskem domove, takze to
        > nevis, ale az k nam prijdes na obed, tak to vedet musis."

        budou okamzite chapat jako pomlouvani typu:

        > "Tak si, pratele, predstavte, ze jsem byl u toho blbce z decaku
        > na obede a on vubec nevi, ze se na ryby pouziva zvlastni pribor.
        > Vidlicku drzi jako prase kost, a to si ten vul mysli, ze ho nekdy
        > pozvu na obed, hohoho!"

        Z toho bych ti ale tak moc nedelal, protoze urcite vrstvy obyvatelstva se
        takto chovaji vsude (alespon v zemich, kde jsem mel moznost alespon chvilku
        pobejt (-:).

        Pekny start do noveho roku vsem preje

        Otto
      • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
        ... vychovavali ... Yes, this is the correct way to criticize a person or a nation. ... Yes, this is improper and can be the result of one of two things: (1)
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 2, 2001
          In a message dated 1/2/01 12:01:28 AM, padamek@... writes:

          >V obecne rovine bych chtel ke kritice Cechu ze strany cizincu pouzit toto
          >prirovnani:
          >Co beru:
          >"Chlapce, dekuji ti za pozvani. Pri obede jsem si vsiml, ze nevis, ze se
          >ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umreli rodice a tebe
          vychovavali
          >v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdes na obed, tak to
          >vedet musis."

          Yes, this is the correct way to criticize a person or a nation.

          >Co neberu:
          >"Tak si, pratele, predstavte, ze jsem byl u toho blbce z decaku na obede
          >a on vubec nevi, ze se na ryby pouziva zvlastni pribor. Vidlicku drzi jako
          >prase kost, a to si ten vul mysli, ze ho nekdy pozvu na obed, hohoho!"

          Yes, this is improper and can be the result of one of two things: (1) the
          person doing the criticizing may be primitive, or (2) the whole time he was
          watching the Czech use the wrong eating utensil, the Czech was arrogantly
          going on about how primitive Americans are, how culturally superior Czechs
          are to them, how vulgar American TV is (not acknowledging the far greater
          degree of obscenity now present on Czech TV), how Americans are idiots
          because they have no beer culture, how we are poorly educated, how American
          cuisine (or as some Czechs like to call it, "American kitchen") consists only
          of hamburgers, and my favorite misconception that some Czechs repeatedly
          assert -- how Americans always talk about sex but never actually engage in it.

          I see my own behavior in both methods you've presented. I guess for most
          Czechs I deal with things in terms of polite correction, but when I encounter
          the type of Czech who has an aggressive superiority complex that comes from a
          severe inferiority complex, I am liable to respond sarcastically. It's not
          right for me to act that way, but I sometimes do.

          Jamie
        • Melvyn Clarke
          Hello Petr, Tomas, Jamie and all, ... vsiml, ze nevis, ze se ... rodice a tebe vychovavali ... na obed, tak to ... Well, yes, if the person(s) involved really
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 3, 2001
            Hello Petr, Tomas, Jamie and all,

            Petr wrote:
            >V obecne rovine bych chtel ke kritice Cechu ze strany cizincu pouzit
            toto prirovnani:

            >Co beru:
            >"Chlapce, dekuji ti za pozvani. Pri obede jsem si
            vsiml, ze nevis, ze se
            >ryby jedi zvlastnim priborem. Chapu, ze ti brzy umreli
            rodice a tebe
            vychovavali
            >v detskem domove, takze to nevis, ale az k nam prijdes
            na obed, tak to
            >vedet musis."

            Jamie wrote:
            >Yes, this is the correct way to criticize a person or a nation.

            Well, yes, if the person(s) involved really did have some extenuating
            circumstances in their
            past. But what if the behaviour to be criticized stems from the
            arrogance and presumption of
            an upbringing within an empowered elite, (which can equally be the
            case whether you are
            Czech, British, American or whatever)?. (What if the orphanage
            metaphor only applies
            because the miscreant fish-knifed his parents:)?) My point is that if
            you are speculating
            about seemingly prevalent behaviour in a particular country, there
            soon comes a time when
            you have to stop talking in terms of nationality and start thinking in
            terms of interest-groups,
            pressure-groups, individuals, sexes, regions, constituencies, classes,
            elites, cliques and so forth.



            Petr continued:

            abych si to precetl cele, ale z toho, co Melvyn pretiskl, mam pocit,
            ze se Pynsent vyziva v tom, jak je chytry a jak ty Cechy stira.

            You have to bear in mind, Petr, that Robert Pynsent likes to cultivate
            a larger-than-life
            iconoclastic image with his apodictic pronouncements and categorical
            utterances. It's all part
            of his flamboyant style and you are not the first to comment on it.

            >Pripomina mi naseho Jana Rejzka, ten je take nejchytrejsi na svete.

            Maybe the comparison is good. In amongst all his vacuous posturising,
            Jan Rejzek occasionally does something useful like having a go at
            Karel Gott, with whom many people are far
            too polite IMNSHO. Pynsent can play a similar role.

            Interesting, Tom, that you mention Ladislav Klima. I was surprised at
            first that Dr Pynsent did
            not bring him up as one of the great writers to emerge from the Czech
            lands because (did
            you notice?) his entire style and presentation seems to be imbued with
            Klima's playful deconstruction and sloganizing, do-it-yourself cosmic
            worldview, apodictic, categorical and often playfully contradictory
            utterances etc etc. It can be amusing in a newspaper article. I know
            for a fact that Pynsent is a big fan of L. Klima because I spent many
            happy hours with him at SSEES in the early eighties preparing my
            dissertation on Klima's work.

            Petr wrote:

            >Co neberu:
            >"Tak si, pratele, predstavte, ze jsem byl u toho blbce
            z decaku na obede
            >a on vubec nevi, ze se na ryby pouziva zvlastni pribor.
            Vidlicku drzi jako
            >prase kost, a to si ten vul mysli, ze ho nekdy pozvu na
            obed, hohoho!"

            Jamie commented:

            >Yes, this is improper and can be the result of one of
            two things: (1) the
            person doing the criticizing may be primitive, or (2)
            the whole time he was
            watching the Czech use the wrong eating utensil, the
            Czech was arrogantly
            going on about how primitive Americans are, <snip>

            Comments like that just sound to me again like somebody making
            categorical statements
            for the sake of effect. I'd either treat them on that level if humour
            or 'rejpani' (taunting?) is clearly
            intended (which I find OK in small doses), or make it very clear that
            non-stop sensation-
            seeking gets boring after a short while. I don't see the point of
            getting hung up about people
            who insist on seeing the world in national terms all the time.

            My new year's resolution: definitely no more categorical statements!

            Melvyn
          • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
            ... I categorically agree!
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 3, 2001
              In a message dated 1/3/01 7:49:36 AM, zehrovak@... writes:

              >My new year's resolution: definitely no more categorical statements!

              I categorically agree!
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