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binokulární test abbreviations

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  • Charlie Stanford Translations
    Can anyone help me please with LO :0,8 è nat. binok. 6/6 in a binokulární test. LO is levé oko (even I could work that one out) but I am struggling
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 1, 2011
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      Can anyone help me please with "LO :0,8 � nat. binok. 6/6" in a binokul�rn� test. LO is lev� oko (even I could work that one out) but I am struggling with the � nat.
      Thank you in advance.
      Charlie


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jaroslav Hejzlar
      Hi, Charlie! My friend, an opthalmic surgeon, has just told me that the abbreviation means castecne naturalne , but the main thing is the number 6/6 which
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 1, 2011
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        Hi, Charlie!
        My friend, an opthalmic surgeon, has just told me that the abbreviation
        means "castecne naturalne", but the main thing is the number 6/6 which means
        that the person's sight is perfectly normal, so the corrective glasses are
        not necessary.
        HTH.
        Regards,
        Jarda

        -----Původní zpráva-----
        From: Charlie Stanford Translations
        Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 6:18 PM
        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Czechlist] binokulární test abbreviations

        Can anyone help me please with "LO :0,8 č nat. binok. 6/6" in a
        binokulární test. LO is levé oko (even I could work that one out) but I am
        struggling with the č nat.
        Thank you in advance.
        Charlie


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------






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      • Sabina Králová
        Dobry den, mohl bys mi prosim nekdo z Vas pomoci s prekladem terminu partial onset seizutes - parcialni zachvaty? A follow-up study - follow-up studie ?
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 2, 2011
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          Dobry den,

          mohl bys mi prosim nekdo z Vas pomoci s prekladem terminu "partial onset
          seizutes" - parcialni zachvaty? A "follow-up study" - "follow-up studie"?
          Dekuji moc
          Sabina
        • Melvyn
          ... A follow-up study Nasledna studie??? http://is.muni.cz/th/13053/fss_r_a2/Prilohy.txt?lang=en Monitorovaci studie??? BR M.
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
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            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Sabina Králová <saba-k@...> wrote:
            A "follow-up study"

            Nasledna studie???
            http://is.muni.cz/th/13053/fss_r_a2/Prilohy.txt?lang=en

            Monitorovaci studie???

            BR

            M.
          • Petr
            Snad pokračovací studie Petr A.
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
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              Snad pokračovací studie
              Petr A.

              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Sabina Králová <saba-k@> wrote:
              > A "follow-up study"
              >
              > Nasledna studie???
              > http://is.muni.cz/th/13053/fss_r_a2/Prilohy.txt?lang=en
              >
              > Monitorovaci studie???
              >
              > BR
              >
              > M.
              >
            • Petr
              Oni nekdy pouzivaji slovo study tam, kde my bychom rekli vysetřeni. V tom smyslu by to spiee bylo nasledne vysetreni. Petr
              Message 6 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
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                Oni nekdy pouzivaji slovo "study" tam, kde my bychom rekli vysetřeni. V tom smyslu by to spiee bylo nasledne vysetreni.
                Petr
                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Sabina Králová <saba-k@> wrote:
                > A "follow-up study"
                >
                > Nasledna studie???
                > http://is.muni.cz/th/13053/fss_r_a2/Prilohy.txt?lang=en
                >
                > Monitorovaci studie???
                >
                > BR
                >
                > M.
                >
              • Matej Klimes
                Hi there, a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a title of a book/upcoming film... It started life as a series of children books about
                Message 7 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi there,

                  a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a title
                  of a book/upcoming film...

                  It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings' who
                  are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                  socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google text
                  and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                  (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..

                  Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                  through OK):

                  „...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!“
                  ...no řekni, není to téma na román?

                  Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                  když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                  uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                  ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                  mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty „své“ lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                  tu „svou“ historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                  i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů v podání Báry
                  Hrzánové.
                  Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat do
                  cizích jazyků.
                  Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče, vědět
                  víc. A chtěli je vidět.


                  The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they have
                  been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                  AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:

                  - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and 'unpoetic'),
                  but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                  Czech title..

                  - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                  toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                  would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up, among
                  other things:
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s

                  Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                  word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?

                  I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I read
                  the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                  doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...

                  To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive, too
                  long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the characters
                  will be called that in the film... I think something a little snappier
                  is needed)...

                  The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a little
                  - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                  meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                  number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...

                  Thanks for comments..

                  Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                  re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                  halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                  explanation above), I'm all ears...


                  Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                  bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:

                  uneven-eaters
                  uneveners
                  unevenators

                  ???

                  Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                  impairers/unpairers)???

                  TIAVM for comments and suggestions

                  Matej









                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Pilucha, Jiri
                  … except that Lichozrouti came out much earlier than Kuky did From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matej Klimes
                  Message 8 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
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                    … except that Lichozrouti came out much earlier than Kuky did


                    From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matej Klimes
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:01 PM
                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e



                    Hi there,

                    a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a title
                    of a book/upcoming film...

                    It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings' who
                    are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                    socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google text
                    and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                    (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..

                    Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                    through OK):

                    „...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!“
                    ...no řekni, není to téma na román?

                    Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                    když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                    uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                    ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                    mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty „své“ lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                    tu „svou“ historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                    i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů v podání Báry
                    Hrzánové.
                    Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat do
                    cizích jazyků.
                    Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče, vědět
                    víc. A chtěli je vidět.


                    The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they have
                    been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                    AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:

                    - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and 'unpoetic'),
                    but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                    Czech title..

                    - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                    toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                    would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up, among
                    other things:
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s

                    Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                    word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?

                    I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I read
                    the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                    doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...

                    To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive, too
                    long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the characters
                    will be called that in the film... I think something a little snappier
                    is needed)...

                    The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a little
                    - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                    meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                    number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...

                    Thanks for comments..

                    Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                    re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                    halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                    explanation above), I'm all ears...


                    Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                    bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:

                    uneven-eaters
                    uneveners
                    unevenators

                    ???

                    Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                    impairers/unpairers)???

                    TIAVM for comments and suggestions

                    Matej








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Stephan von Pohl
                    Read both of the books (or was there a third one?). Fun reading, although they occasionally suffer from a little too much ethnic stereotyping (Africans,
                    Message 9 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
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                      Read both of the books (or was there a third one?). Fun reading,
                      although they occasionally suffer from a little too much ethnic
                      stereotyping (Africans, Vietnamese). I try to chalk it up to Czech
                      naivete when it comes to ethnic etiquette, but still...

                      As for the title in English: since we don't have an equivalent of the
                      word "licháč" in English, I think any attempt at a literal translation
                      will end up as tragic as the two you mentioned.

                      Personally, I'd go for something like "The Sock-Munchers". Or
                      sock-trolls, sock-gnomes or something like that.

                      On 8/3/2011 1:03 PM, Pilucha, Jiri wrote:
                      >
                      > … except that Lichozrouti came out much earlier than Kuky did
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>]
                      > On Behalf Of Matej Klimes
                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:01 PM
                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi there,
                      >
                      > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a title
                      > of a book/upcoming film...
                      >
                      > It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings' who
                      > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                      > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google text
                      > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                      > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                      >
                      > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                      > through OK):
                      >
                      > „...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!“
                      > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                      >
                      > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                      > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                      > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní bestseller,
                      > který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                      > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                      > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty „své“ lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                      > tu „svou“ historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                      > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů v
                      > podání Báry
                      > Hrzánové.
                      > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat do
                      > cizích jazyků.
                      > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče, vědět
                      > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                      >
                      >
                      > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they have
                      > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                      > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                      >
                      > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and 'unpoetic'),
                      > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                      > Czech title..
                      >
                      > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                      > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                      > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up, among
                      > other things:
                      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                      >
                      > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                      > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                      >
                      > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I read
                      > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                      > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                      >
                      > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive, too
                      > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the characters
                      > will be called that in the film... I think something a little snappier
                      > is needed)...
                      >
                      > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a little
                      > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                      > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                      > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                      >
                      > Thanks for comments..
                      >
                      > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                      > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                      > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                      > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                      >
                      >
                      > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                      > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                      >
                      > uneven-eaters
                      > uneveners
                      > unevenators
                      >
                      > ???
                      >
                      > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                      > impairers/unpairers)???
                      >
                      > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                      >
                      > Matej
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                    • James Kirchner
                      Matej, this type of being already exists in American folklore and in the English language (at least in the US). Every American knows that there is a
                      Message 10 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore" and in the English language (at least in the US).

                        Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer called "the Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.

                        So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get into the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.

                        Jamie

                        On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                        > Hi there,
                        >
                        > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a title
                        > of a book/upcoming film...
                        >
                        > It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings' who
                        > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                        > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google text
                        > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                        > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                        >
                        > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                        > through OK):
                        >
                        > „...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!“
                        > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                        >
                        > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                        > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                        > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                        > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                        > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty „své“ lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                        > tu „svou“ historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                        > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů v podání Báry
                        > Hrzánové.
                        > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat do
                        > cizích jazyků.
                        > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče, vědět
                        > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                        >
                        >
                        > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they have
                        > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                        > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                        >
                        > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and 'unpoetic'),
                        > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                        > Czech title..
                        >
                        > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                        > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                        > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up, among
                        > other things:
                        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                        >
                        > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                        > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                        >
                        > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I read
                        > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                        > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                        >
                        > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive, too
                        > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the characters
                        > will be called that in the film... I think something a little snappier
                        > is needed)...
                        >
                        > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a little
                        > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                        > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                        > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                        >
                        > Thanks for comments..
                        >
                        > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                        > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                        > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                        > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                        >
                        >
                        > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                        > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                        >
                        > uneven-eaters
                        > uneveners
                        > unevenators
                        >
                        > ???
                        >
                        > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                        > impairers/unpairers)???
                        >
                        > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                        >
                        > Matej
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Stephan von Pohl
                        Jamie, Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who hide your car keys all the time. But I ve never come across them actually having a
                        Message 11 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Jamie,

                          Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who hide
                          your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them actually
                          having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At least
                          not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes about
                          the creatures that ate our socks.

                          Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most but
                          not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a little
                          too much of New York Jewish)

                          Steve

                          On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                          > Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore" and in
                          > the English language (at least in the US).
                          >
                          > Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer called "the
                          > Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.
                          >
                          > So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                          > American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get into
                          > the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                          >
                          > Jamie
                          >
                          > On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                          >
                          > > Hi there,
                          > >
                          > > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a title
                          > > of a book/upcoming film...
                          > >
                          > > It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings' who
                          > > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                          > > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google text
                          > > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                          > > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                          > >
                          > > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                          > > through OK):
                          > >
                          > > „...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!“
                          > > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                          > >
                          > > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                          > > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                          > > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                          > bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                          > > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                          > > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty „své“ lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                          > > tu „svou“ historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                          > > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů
                          > v podání Báry
                          > > Hrzánové.
                          > > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat do
                          > > cizích jazyků.
                          > > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče, vědět
                          > > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they have
                          > > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                          > > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                          > >
                          > > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and 'unpoetic'),
                          > > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                          > > Czech title..
                          > >
                          > > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                          > > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                          > > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up, among
                          > > other things:
                          > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                          > >
                          > > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                          > > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                          > >
                          > > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I read
                          > > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                          > > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                          > >
                          > > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive, too
                          > > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the characters
                          > > will be called that in the film... I think something a little snappier
                          > > is needed)...
                          > >
                          > > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a little
                          > > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                          > > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                          > > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                          > >
                          > > Thanks for comments..
                          > >
                          > > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                          > > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                          > > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                          > > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                          > > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                          > >
                          > > uneven-eaters
                          > > uneveners
                          > > unevenators
                          > >
                          > > ???
                          > >
                          > > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                          > > impairers/unpairers)???
                          > >
                          > > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                          > >
                          > > Matej
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • James Kirchner
                          Well, Steve, Sock Eater is common enough to have made it into the Urban Dictionary: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sock%20Eater Nearly
                          Message 12 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Well, Steve, "Sock Eater" is common enough to have made it into the Urban Dictionary:
                            http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sock%20Eater

                            Nearly everyone I know is aware of the Sock Eater.

                            This means those books will be falling on very fertile ground in the US. The movies, not so much. Hollywood will wind up remaking them.

                            Jamie

                            On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:41 AM, Stephan von Pohl wrote:

                            > Jamie,
                            >
                            > Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who hide
                            > your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them actually
                            > having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At least
                            > not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes about
                            > the creatures that ate our socks.
                            >
                            > Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most but
                            > not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a little
                            > too much of New York Jewish)
                            >
                            > Steve
                            >
                            > On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                            > > Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore" and in
                            > > the English language (at least in the US).
                            > >
                            > > Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer called "the
                            > > Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.
                            > >
                            > > So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                            > > American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get into
                            > > the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                            > >
                            > > Jamie
                            > >
                            > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Hi there,
                            > > >
                            > > > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a title
                            > > > of a book/upcoming film...
                            > > >
                            > > > It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings' who
                            > > > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                            > > > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google text
                            > > > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                            > > > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                            > > >
                            > > > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                            > > > through OK):
                            > > >
                            > > > „...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!“
                            > > > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                            > > >
                            > > > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                            > > > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                            > > > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                            > > bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                            > > > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                            > > > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty „své“ lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                            > > > tu „svou“ historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                            > > > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů
                            > > v podání Báry
                            > > > Hrzánové.
                            > > > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat do
                            > > > cizích jazyků.
                            > > > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče, vědět
                            > > > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they have
                            > > > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                            > > > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                            > > >
                            > > > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and 'unpoetic'),
                            > > > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                            > > > Czech title..
                            > > >
                            > > > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                            > > > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                            > > > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up, among
                            > > > other things:
                            > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                            > > >
                            > > > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                            > > > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                            > > >
                            > > > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I read
                            > > > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                            > > > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                            > > >
                            > > > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive, too
                            > > > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the characters
                            > > > will be called that in the film... I think something a little snappier
                            > > > is needed)...
                            > > >
                            > > > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a little
                            > > > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                            > > > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                            > > > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks for comments..
                            > > >
                            > > > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                            > > > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                            > > > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                            > > > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                            > > > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                            > > >
                            > > > uneven-eaters
                            > > > uneveners
                            > > > unevenators
                            > > >
                            > > > ???
                            > > >
                            > > > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                            > > > impairers/unpairers)???
                            > > >
                            > > > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                            > > >
                            > > > Matej
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Stephan von Pohl
                            I trust urbandictionary.com only with a large bucket of salt. I ve read through enough of the entries there to see that people put in pretty much any words
                            Message 13 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I trust urbandictionary.com only with a large bucket of salt. I've read
                              through enough of the entries there to see that people put in pretty
                              much any words they've come across. Some of the definitions strike me as
                              totally off-base, while others are clearly something used by a certain
                              segment of the population, but there is no guarantee that the particular
                              usage is widespread.

                              On 8/3/2011 1:48 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                              > Well, Steve, "Sock Eater" is common enough to have made it into the
                              > Urban Dictionary:
                              > http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sock%20Eater
                              >
                              > Nearly everyone I know is aware of the Sock Eater.
                              >
                              > This means those books will be falling on very fertile ground in the US.
                              > The movies, not so much. Hollywood will wind up remaking them.
                              >
                              > Jamie
                              >
                              > On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:41 AM, Stephan von Pohl wrote:
                              >
                              > > Jamie,
                              > >
                              > > Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who hide
                              > > your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them actually
                              > > having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At least
                              > > not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes about
                              > > the creatures that ate our socks.
                              > >
                              > > Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most but
                              > > not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a little
                              > > too much of New York Jewish)
                              > >
                              > > Steve
                              > >
                              > > On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                              > > > Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore"
                              > and in
                              > > > the English language (at least in the US).
                              > > >
                              > > > Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer called
                              > "the
                              > > > Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.
                              > > >
                              > > > So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                              > > > American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get into
                              > > > the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                              > > >
                              > > > Jamie
                              > > >
                              > > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > Hi there,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a
                              > title
                              > > > > of a book/upcoming film...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > It started life as a series of children books about weird
                              > 'beings' who
                              > > > > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                              > > > > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a
                              > google text
                              > > > > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                              > > > > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                              > > > > through OK):
                              > > > >
                              > > > > „...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!“
                              > > > > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                              > > > > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                              > > > > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                              > > > bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                              > > > > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                              > > > > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty „své“ lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                              > > > > tu „svou“ historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                              > > > > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů
                              > > > v podání Báry
                              > > > > Hrzánové.
                              > > > > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala
                              > překládat do
                              > > > > cizích jazyků.
                              > > > > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče,
                              > vědět
                              > > > > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular,
                              > they have
                              > > > > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                              > > > > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                              > 'unpoetic'),
                              > > > > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                              > > > > Czech title..
                              > > > >
                              > > > > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                              > > > > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                              > > > > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up,
                              > among
                              > > > > other things:
                              > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                              > > > > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I
                              > read
                              > > > > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                              > > > > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring,
                              > descriptive, too
                              > > > > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                              > characters
                              > > > > will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                              > snappier
                              > > > > is needed)...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a
                              > little
                              > > > > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                              > > > > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                              > > > > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks for comments..
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                              > > > > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                              > > > > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                              > > > > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                              > > > > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > uneven-eaters
                              > > > > uneveners
                              > > > > unevenators
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ???
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                              > > > > impairers/unpairers)???
                              > > > >
                              > > > > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Matej
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                            • Charlie Stanford Translations
                              I didn t realise it was a Yiddish word (I suppose it sounds it) but I think that Kent is right that it is pretty much used across the English-speaking world. I
                              Message 14 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I didn't realise it was a Yiddish word (I suppose it sounds it) but I think
                                that Kent is right that it is pretty much used across the English-speaking
                                world. I quite like "sock-noshers". Maybe "sock munchers". I might be in a
                                bit of a minority but I think there is poetry in the term "odd sock" and
                                don't know why you don't like it Matej - I realise that it is a bit
                                long-winded to have to keep saying "odd-sock eaters" but "odd sock" sounds
                                great in English with all those harsh sounds and short vowels and "odd-sock
                                eaters" is quick to say and sounds funny which is important. Half the fun
                                of the whole idea of course is that they only chomp one of your socks and
                                looking at "Sockeaters" I am not sure if that would be immediately
                                apparent - perhaps it would in the US.


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...>
                                To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:28 PM
                                Subject: Re: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                Lichac^e


                                Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though its roots
                                are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I always say that if
                                a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows what it is, then most
                                people in the English-speaking world probably do! :) But I guess it could be
                                a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed to flow a bit, but using the word
                                nosh too often in the book could get a bit tiresome. So I think the best
                                ideas are sockeater or sock-troll, in my humble opinion.

                                Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...> napsal(a):
                                > Jamie,
                                >
                                > Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who hide
                                > your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them actually
                                > having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At least
                                > not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes about
                                > the creatures that ate our socks.
                                >
                                > Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most but
                                > not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a little
                                > too much of New York Jewish)
                                >
                                > Steve
                                >
                                > On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                > > Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore" and in
                                > > the English language (at least in the US).
                                > >
                                > > Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer called "the
                                > > Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.
                                > >
                                > > So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                                > > American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get into
                                > > the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                > >
                                > > Jamie
                                > >
                                > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Hi there,
                                > > >
                                > > > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a
                                > > title
                                > > > of a book/upcoming film...
                                > > >
                                > > > It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings'
                                > > who
                                > > > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                                > > > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google
                                > > text
                                > > > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                                > > > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                                > > >
                                > > > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                                > > > through OK):
                                > > >
                                > > > ...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                > > > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                > > >
                                > > > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                > > > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                                > > > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                > > bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                > > > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                                > > > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                                > > > tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                > > > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů
                                > > v podání Báry
                                > > > Hrzánové.
                                > > > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat
                                > > do
                                > > > cizích jazyků.
                                > > > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče,
                                > > vědět
                                > > > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they
                                > > have
                                > > > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                                > > > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                > > >
                                > > > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                > > 'unpoetic'),
                                > > > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                                > > > Czech title..
                                > > >
                                > > > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                                > > > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                                > > > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up,
                                > > among
                                > > > other things:
                                > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                > > >
                                > > > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                                > > > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                > > >
                                > > > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I
                                > > read
                                > > > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                                > > > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                                > > >
                                > > > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive,
                                > > too
                                > > > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                > > characters
                                > > > will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                > > snappier
                                > > > is needed)...
                                > > >
                                > > > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a
                                > > little
                                > > > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                > > > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                                > > > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks for comments..
                                > > >
                                > > > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                                > > > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                                > > > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                                > > > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                > > > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                > > >
                                > > > uneven-eaters
                                > > > uneveners
                                > > > unevenators
                                > > >
                                > > > ???
                                > > >
                                > > > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                > > > impairers/unpairers)???
                                > > >
                                > > > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                > > >
                                > > > Matej
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                >


                                ------------------------------------






                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • Stephan von Pohl
                                Odd sock sounds like a British term for oddball . I imagine someone with a British accent (Tracey Ullman, maybe?) saying Oh, he s quite an odd sock, that
                                Message 15 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  "Odd sock" sounds like a British term for "oddball". I imagine someone
                                  with a British accent (Tracey Ullman, maybe?) saying "Oh, he's quite an
                                  odd sock, that one!"

                                  On 8/3/2011 2:15 PM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:
                                  > I didn't realise it was a Yiddish word (I suppose it sounds it) but I think
                                  > that Kent is right that it is pretty much used across the English-speaking
                                  > world. I quite like "sock-noshers". Maybe "sock munchers". I might be in a
                                  > bit of a minority but I think there is poetry in the term "odd sock" and
                                  > don't know why you don't like it Matej - I realise that it is a bit
                                  > long-winded to have to keep saying "odd-sock eaters" but "odd sock" sounds
                                  > great in English with all those harsh sounds and short vowels and "odd-sock
                                  > eaters" is quick to say and sounds funny which is important. Half the fun
                                  > of the whole idea of course is that they only chomp one of your socks and
                                  > looking at "Sockeaters" I am not sure if that would be immediately
                                  > apparent - perhaps it would in the US.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Kent Christopher Kasha"<kasha@...>
                                  > To:<Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:28 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                  > Lichac^e
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though its roots
                                  > are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I always say that if
                                  > a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows what it is, then most
                                  > people in the English-speaking world probably do! :) But I guess it could be
                                  > a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed to flow a bit, but using the word
                                  > nosh too often in the book could get a bit tiresome. So I think the best
                                  > ideas are sockeater or sock-troll, in my humble opinion.
                                  >
                                  > Stephan von Pohl<stephan.pohl@...> napsal(a):
                                  >> Jamie,
                                  >>
                                  >> Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who hide
                                  >> your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them actually
                                  >> having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At least
                                  >> not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes about
                                  >> the creatures that ate our socks.
                                  >>
                                  >> Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most but
                                  >> not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a little
                                  >> too much of New York Jewish)
                                  >>
                                  >> Steve
                                  >>
                                  >> On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                  >>> Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore" and in
                                  >>> the English language (at least in the US).
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer called "the
                                  >>> Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                                  >>> American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get into
                                  >>> the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Jamie
                                  >>>
                                  >>> On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>> > Hi there,
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a
                                  >>> title
                                  >>> > of a book/upcoming film...
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings'
                                  >>> who
                                  >>> > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                                  >>> > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google
                                  >>> text
                                  >>> > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                                  >>> > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                                  >>> > through OK):
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > ...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                  >>> > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                  >>> > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                                  >>> > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                  >>> bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                  >>> > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                                  >>> > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                                  >>> > tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                  >>> > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů
                                  >>> v podání Báry
                                  >>> > Hrzánové.
                                  >>> > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat
                                  >>> do
                                  >>> > cizích jazyků.
                                  >>> > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče,
                                  >>> vědět
                                  >>> > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they
                                  >>> have
                                  >>> > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                                  >>> > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                  >>> 'unpoetic'),
                                  >>> > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                                  >>> > Czech title..
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                                  >>> > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                                  >>> > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up,
                                  >>> among
                                  >>> > other things:
                                  >>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                                  >>> > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I
                                  >>> read
                                  >>> > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                                  >>> > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive,
                                  >>> too
                                  >>> > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                  >>> characters
                                  >>> > will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                  >>> snappier
                                  >>> > is needed)...
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a
                                  >>> little
                                  >>> > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                  >>> > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                                  >>> > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Thanks for comments..
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                                  >>> > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                                  >>> > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                                  >>> > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                  >>> > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > uneven-eaters
                                  >>> > uneveners
                                  >>> > unevenators
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > ???
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                  >>> > impairers/unpairers)???
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Matej
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>>
                                  >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                • Matej Klimes
                                  That s exactly my thinking... I don t mind odd-sock eaters and you re right, the odd-bit is important/adds character to it.. it may be inherently present in
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    That's exactly my thinking...

                                    I don't mind 'odd-sock eaters' and you're right, the odd-bit is
                                    important/adds character to it.. it may be inherently present in
                                    sock-eaters as Jamie explains (I've never lost two socks from the same
                                    pair), but I'd like to have it in the name...

                                    I guess I needed to check how different things sound to native ears and
                                    what associations do they bring up... but as always that's very
                                    individual...

                                    Keep it up though, I'm sure we'll come up with something...

                                    M
                                    ------ Original Message ------
                                    From: "Charlie Stanford Translations"
                                    <charliestanfordtranslations@...>
                                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: 3.8.2011 14:15:59
                                    Subject: Re: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                    Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                    >I didn't realise it was a Yiddish word (I suppose it sounds it) but I think
                                    >that Kent is right that it is pretty much used across the English-speaking
                                    >world. I quite like "sock-noshers". Maybe "sock munchers". I might be in a
                                    >bit of a minority but I think there is poetry in the term "odd sock" and
                                    >don't know why you don't like it Matej - I realise that it is a bit
                                    >long-winded to have to keep saying "odd-sock eaters" but "odd sock" sounds
                                    >great in English with all those harsh sounds and short vowels and "odd-sock
                                    >eaters" is quick to say and sounds funny which is important. Half the fun
                                    >of the whole idea of course is that they only chomp one of your socks and
                                    >looking at "Sockeaters" I am not sure if that would be immediately
                                    >apparent - perhaps it would in the US.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >----- Original Message -----
                                    >From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...>
                                    >To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:28 PM
                                    >Subject: Re: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                    >Lichac^e
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though its roots
                                    >are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I always say that if
                                    >a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows what it is, then most
                                    >people in the English-speaking world probably do! :) But I guess it could be
                                    >a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed to flow a bit, but using the word
                                    >nosh too often in the book could get a bit tiresome. So I think the best
                                    >ideas are sockeater or sock-troll, in my humble opinion.
                                    >
                                    >Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...> napsal(a):
                                    >
                                    >>
                                    >>Jamie,
                                    >>
                                    >>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who hide
                                    >>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them actually
                                    >>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At least
                                    >>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes about
                                    >>the creatures that ate our socks.
                                    >>
                                    >>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most but
                                    >>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a little
                                    >>too much of New York Jewish)
                                    >>
                                    >>Steve
                                    >>
                                    >>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                    >>> Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore" and in
                                    >>> the English language (at least in the US).
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer called "the
                                    >>> Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                                    >>> American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get into
                                    >>> the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Jamie
                                    >>>
                                    >>> On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                    >>>
                                    >>> > Hi there,
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a
                                    >>> title
                                    >>> > of a book/upcoming film...
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings'
                                    >>> who
                                    >>> > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                                    >>> > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google
                                    >>> text
                                    >>> > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                                    >>> > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                                    >>> > through OK):
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > ...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                    >>> > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                    >>> > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                                    >>> > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                    >>> bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                    >>> > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                                    >>> > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                                    >>> > tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                    >>> > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů
                                    >>> v podání Báry
                                    >>> > Hrzánové.
                                    >>> > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat
                                    >>> do
                                    >>> > cizích jazyků.
                                    >>> > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče,
                                    >>> vědět
                                    >>> > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they
                                    >>> have
                                    >>> > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                                    >>> > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                    >>> 'unpoetic'),
                                    >>> > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                                    >>> > Czech title..
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                                    >>> > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                                    >>> > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up,
                                    >>> among
                                    >>> > other things:
                                    >>> >
                                    >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                                    >>> > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I
                                    >>> read
                                    >>> > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                                    >>> > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive,
                                    >>> too
                                    >>> > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                    >>> characters
                                    >>> > will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                    >>> snappier
                                    >>> > is needed)...
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a
                                    >>> little
                                    >>> > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                    >>> > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                                    >>> > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Thanks for comments..
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                                    >>> > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                                    >>> > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                                    >>> > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                    >>> > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > uneven-eaters
                                    >>> > uneveners
                                    >>> > unevenators
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > ???
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                    >>> > impairers/unpairers)???
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Matej
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>>
                                    >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    >
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                                  • Matej Klimes
                                    What about trying a completely different approach? Can we use any other word to express the lichy /half a pair concept??? I suppose my quick suggestions
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      What about trying a completely different approach? Can we use any other
                                      word to express the 'lichy'/half a pair concept???

                                      I suppose my quick suggestions earlier are not working..

                                      M
                                      ------ Original Message ------
                                      From: "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
                                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: 3.8.2011 14:21:40
                                      Subject: Re[3]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                      Lichac^e
                                      > That's exactly my thinking...
                                      >
                                      >I don't mind 'odd-sock eaters' and you're right, the odd-bit is
                                      >important/adds character to it.. it may be inherently present in
                                      >sock-eaters as Jamie explains (I've never lost two socks from the same
                                      >pair), but I'd like to have it in the name...
                                      >
                                      >I guess I needed to check how different things sound to native ears
                                      >and
                                      >what associations do they bring up... but as always that's very
                                      >individual...
                                      >
                                      >Keep it up though, I'm sure we'll come up with something...
                                      >
                                      >M
                                      >------ Original Message ------
                                      >From: "Charlie Stanford Translations"
                                      ><charliestanfordtranslations@...>
                                      >To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Sent: 3.8.2011 14:15:59
                                      >Subject: Re: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                      >Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                      >>I didn't realise it was a Yiddish word (I suppose it sounds it) but I
                                      >think
                                      >>that Kent is right that it is pretty much used across the
                                      >English-speaking
                                      >>world. I quite like "sock-noshers". Maybe "sock munchers". I might be
                                      >in a
                                      >>bit of a minority but I think there is poetry in the term "odd sock"
                                      >and
                                      >>don't know why you don't like it Matej - I realise that it is a bit
                                      >>long-winded to have to keep saying "odd-sock eaters" but "odd sock"
                                      >sounds
                                      >>great in English with all those harsh sounds and short vowels and
                                      >"odd-sock
                                      >>eaters" is quick to say and sounds funny which is important. Half the
                                      >fun
                                      >>of the whole idea of course is that they only chomp one of your socks
                                      >and
                                      >>looking at "Sockeaters" I am not sure if that would be immediately
                                      >>apparent - perhaps it would in the US.
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>----- Original Message -----
                                      >>From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...>
                                      >>To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >>Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:28 PM
                                      >>Subject: Re: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                      >Lichoz^routi,
                                      >>Lichac^e
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though its
                                      >roots
                                      >>are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I always say
                                      >that if
                                      >>a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows what it is, then
                                      >most
                                      >>people in the English-speaking world probably do! :) But I guess it
                                      >could be
                                      >>a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed to flow a bit, but using the
                                      >word
                                      >>nosh too often in the book could get a bit tiresome. So I think the
                                      >best
                                      >>ideas are sockeater or sock-troll, in my humble opinion.
                                      >>
                                      >>Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...> napsal(a):
                                      >>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>Jamie,
                                      >>>
                                      >>>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who
                                      >hide
                                      >>>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them actually
                                      >>>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At
                                      >least
                                      >>>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes about
                                      >>>the creatures that ate our socks.
                                      >>>
                                      >>>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most but
                                      >>>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a
                                      >little
                                      >>>too much of New York Jewish)
                                      >>>
                                      >>>Steve
                                      >>>
                                      >>>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                      >>>> Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore"
                                      >and in
                                      >>>> the English language (at least in the US).
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer
                                      >called "the
                                      >>>> Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                                      >>>> American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get
                                      >into
                                      >>>> the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> Jamie
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> > Hi there,
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a
                                      >>>> title
                                      >>>> > of a book/upcoming film...
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > It started life as a series of children books about weird
                                      >'beings'
                                      >>>> who
                                      >>>> > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of
                                      >pairs of
                                      >>>> > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a
                                      >google
                                      >>>> text
                                      >>>> > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the
                                      >story
                                      >>>> > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of
                                      >it..
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                                      >>>> > through OK):
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > ...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                      >>>> > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                      >>>> > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                                      >>>> > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                      >>>> bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                      >>>> > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se
                                      >osobně
                                      >>>> > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl
                                      >nám
                                      >>>> > tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                      >>>> > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi
                                      >Lichožroutů
                                      >>>> v podání Báry
                                      >>>> > Hrzánové.
                                      >>>> > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala
                                      >překládat
                                      >>>> do
                                      >>>> > cizích jazyků.
                                      >>>> > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče,
                                      >>>> vědět
                                      >>>> > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular,
                                      >they
                                      >>>> have
                                      >>>> > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a
                                      >translator)...
                                      >>>> > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                      >>>> 'unpoetic'),
                                      >>>> > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like
                                      >in the
                                      >>>> > Czech title..
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO
                                      >leans
                                      >>>> > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I
                                      >think
                                      >>>> > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up,
                                      >>>> among
                                      >>>> > other things:
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or
                                      >is the
                                      >>>> > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I
                                      >>>> read
                                      >>>> > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic,
                                      >but
                                      >>>> > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring,
                                      >descriptive,
                                      >>>> too
                                      >>>> > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                      >>>> characters
                                      >>>> > will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                      >>>> snappier
                                      >>>> > is needed)...
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a
                                      >>>> little
                                      >>>> > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                      >>>> > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                                      >>>> > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > Thanks for comments..
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be
                                      >taken
                                      >>>> > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                                      >>>> > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                                      >>>> > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                      >>>> > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > uneven-eaters
                                      >>>> > uneveners
                                      >>>> > unevenators
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > ???
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                      >>>> > impairers/unpairers)???
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > Matej
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>> >
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>------------------------------------
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>------------------------------------
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >>
                                      >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                      >>
                                      >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                      >> (Yahoo! ID required)
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                      >(20110803) __________
                                      >>
                                      >>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                      >(20110803) __________
                                      >
                                      >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                      >
                                      >http://www.eset.cz/


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • James Kirchner
                                      Odd sock eaters sounds redundant to me, as if some Czech technical writer had added an extra adjective just to make sure. I think that in North America
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        "Odd sock eaters" sounds redundant to me, as if some Czech technical writer had added an extra adjective just to make sure.

                                        I think that in North America there's a danger of kids assuming that an "odd sock eater" is a regular sock eater who's got something wrong with him.

                                        Jamie

                                        On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Stephan von Pohl wrote:

                                        > "Odd sock" sounds like a British term for "oddball". I imagine someone
                                        > with a British accent (Tracey Ullman, maybe?) saying "Oh, he's quite an
                                        > odd sock, that one!"
                                        >
                                        > On 8/3/2011 2:15 PM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:
                                        > > I didn't realise it was a Yiddish word (I suppose it sounds it) but I think
                                        > > that Kent is right that it is pretty much used across the English-speaking
                                        > > world. I quite like "sock-noshers". Maybe "sock munchers". I might be in a
                                        > > bit of a minority but I think there is poetry in the term "odd sock" and
                                        > > don't know why you don't like it Matej - I realise that it is a bit
                                        > > long-winded to have to keep saying "odd-sock eaters" but "odd sock" sounds
                                        > > great in English with all those harsh sounds and short vowels and "odd-sock
                                        > > eaters" is quick to say and sounds funny which is important. Half the fun
                                        > > of the whole idea of course is that they only chomp one of your socks and
                                        > > looking at "Sockeaters" I am not sure if that would be immediately
                                        > > apparent - perhaps it would in the US.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: "Kent Christopher Kasha"<kasha@...>
                                        > > To:<Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:28 PM
                                        > > Subject: Re: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                        > > Lichac^e
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though its roots
                                        > > are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I always say that if
                                        > > a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows what it is, then most
                                        > > people in the English-speaking world probably do! :) But I guess it could be
                                        > > a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed to flow a bit, but using the word
                                        > > nosh too often in the book could get a bit tiresome. So I think the best
                                        > > ideas are sockeater or sock-troll, in my humble opinion.
                                        > >
                                        > > Stephan von Pohl<stephan.pohl@...> napsal(a):
                                        > >> Jamie,
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who hide
                                        > >> your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them actually
                                        > >> having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At least
                                        > >> not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes about
                                        > >> the creatures that ate our socks.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most but
                                        > >> not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a little
                                        > >> too much of New York Jewish)
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Steve
                                        > >>
                                        > >> On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                        > >>> Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore" and in
                                        > >>> the English language (at least in the US).
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer called "the
                                        > >>> Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                                        > >>> American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get into
                                        > >>> the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> Jamie
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> > Hi there,
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a
                                        > >>> title
                                        > >>> > of a book/upcoming film...
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings'
                                        > >>> who
                                        > >>> > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                                        > >>> > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google
                                        > >>> text
                                        > >>> > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                                        > >>> > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                                        > >>> > through OK):
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > ...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                        > >>> > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                        > >>> > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                                        > >>> > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                        > >>> bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                        > >>> > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                                        > >>> > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                                        > >>> > tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                        > >>> > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů
                                        > >>> v podání Báry
                                        > >>> > Hrzánové.
                                        > >>> > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat
                                        > >>> do
                                        > >>> > cizích jazyků.
                                        > >>> > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče,
                                        > >>> vědět
                                        > >>> > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they
                                        > >>> have
                                        > >>> > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                                        > >>> > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                        > >>> 'unpoetic'),
                                        > >>> > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                                        > >>> > Czech title..
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                                        > >>> > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                                        > >>> > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up,
                                        > >>> among
                                        > >>> > other things:
                                        > >>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                                        > >>> > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I
                                        > >>> read
                                        > >>> > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                                        > >>> > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive,
                                        > >>> too
                                        > >>> > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                        > >>> characters
                                        > >>> > will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                        > >>> snappier
                                        > >>> > is needed)...
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a
                                        > >>> little
                                        > >>> > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                        > >>> > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                                        > >>> > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > Thanks for comments..
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                                        > >>> > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                                        > >>> > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                                        > >>> > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                        > >>> > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > uneven-eaters
                                        > >>> > uneveners
                                        > >>> > unevenators
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > ???
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                        > >>> > impairers/unpairers)???
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > Matej
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>> >
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • James Kirchner
                                        Odd sock eaters sounds like technical mechanic or clothes-sewing tailor or food-preparing chef . The word odd is completely redundant. Besides, which
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          "Odd sock eaters" sounds like "technical mechanic" or "clothes-sewing tailor" or "food-preparing chef". The word "odd" is completely redundant.

                                          Besides, which sock is the odd one? In the US, instead of "odd", you'd have to use a word like "random" -- again, completely redundant -- because "odd" is more likely to strike kids as meaning slightly bizarre.

                                          Jamie

                                          On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:21 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                                          > That's exactly my thinking...
                                          >
                                          > I don't mind 'odd-sock eaters' and you're right, the odd-bit is
                                          > important/adds character to it.. it may be inherently present in
                                          > sock-eaters as Jamie explains (I've never lost two socks from the same
                                          > pair), but I'd like to have it in the name...
                                          >
                                          > I guess I needed to check how different things sound to native ears and
                                          > what associations do they bring up... but as always that's very
                                          > individual...
                                          >
                                          > Keep it up though, I'm sure we'll come up with something...
                                          >
                                          > M
                                          > ------ Original Message ------
                                          > From: "Charlie Stanford Translations"
                                          > <charliestanfordtranslations@...>
                                          > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: 3.8.2011 14:15:59
                                          > Subject: Re: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                          > Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                          > >I didn't realise it was a Yiddish word (I suppose it sounds it) but I think
                                          > >that Kent is right that it is pretty much used across the English-speaking
                                          > >world. I quite like "sock-noshers". Maybe "sock munchers". I might be in a
                                          > >bit of a minority but I think there is poetry in the term "odd sock" and
                                          > >don't know why you don't like it Matej - I realise that it is a bit
                                          > >long-winded to have to keep saying "odd-sock eaters" but "odd sock" sounds
                                          > >great in English with all those harsh sounds and short vowels and "odd-sock
                                          > >eaters" is quick to say and sounds funny which is important. Half the fun
                                          > >of the whole idea of course is that they only chomp one of your socks and
                                          > >looking at "Sockeaters" I am not sure if that would be immediately
                                          > >apparent - perhaps it would in the US.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >----- Original Message -----
                                          > >From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...>
                                          > >To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > >Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 1:28 PM
                                          > >Subject: Re: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                          > >Lichac^e
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though its roots
                                          > >are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I always say that if
                                          > >a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows what it is, then most
                                          > >people in the English-speaking world probably do! :) But I guess it could be
                                          > >a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed to flow a bit, but using the word
                                          > >nosh too often in the book could get a bit tiresome. So I think the best
                                          > >ideas are sockeater or sock-troll, in my humble opinion.
                                          > >
                                          > >Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...> napsal(a):
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >>Jamie,
                                          > >>
                                          > >>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls who hide
                                          > >>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them actually
                                          > >>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At least
                                          > >>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes about
                                          > >>the creatures that ate our socks.
                                          > >>
                                          > >>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most but
                                          > >>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a little
                                          > >>too much of New York Jewish)
                                          > >>
                                          > >>Steve
                                          > >>
                                          > >>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                          > >>> Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American "folklore" and in
                                          > >>> the English language (at least in the US).
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer called "the
                                          > >>> Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other one.
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                                          > >>> American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get into
                                          > >>> the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> Jamie
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> > Hi there,
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of a
                                          > >>> title
                                          > >>> > of a book/upcoming film...
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > It started life as a series of children books about weird 'beings'
                                          > >>> who
                                          > >>> > are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of pairs of
                                          > >>> > socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a google
                                          > >>> text
                                          > >>> > and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the story
                                          > >>> > (and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks of it..
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics come
                                          > >>> > through OK):
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > ...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                          > >>> > ...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                          > >>> > když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                                          > >>> > uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                          > >>> bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                          > >>> > ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se osobně
                                          > >>> > mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl nám
                                          > >>> > tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                          > >>> > i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi Lichožroutů
                                          > >>> v podání Báry
                                          > >>> > Hrzánové.
                                          > >>> > Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala překládat
                                          > >>> do
                                          > >>> > cizích jazyků.
                                          > >>> > Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů licháče,
                                          > >>> vědět
                                          > >>> > víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular, they
                                          > >>> have
                                          > >>> > been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a translator)...
                                          > >>> > AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > - the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                          > >>> 'unpoetic'),
                                          > >>> > but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like in the
                                          > >>> > Czech title..
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > - the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO leans
                                          > >>> > toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I think
                                          > >>> > would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come up,
                                          > >>> among
                                          > >>> > other things:
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or is the
                                          > >>> > word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until I
                                          > >>> read
                                          > >>> > the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic, but
                                          > >>> > doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being parted...
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > To me, the first translation above is sort of boring, descriptive,
                                          > >>> too
                                          > >>> > long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                          > >>> characters
                                          > >>> > will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                          > >>> snappier
                                          > >>> > is needed)...
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination a
                                          > >>> little
                                          > >>> > - just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                          > >>> > meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an odd
                                          > >>> > number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > Thanks for comments..
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be taken
                                          > >>> > re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have become
                                          > >>> > halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                                          > >>> > explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                          > >>> > bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > uneven-eaters
                                          > >>> > uneveners
                                          > >>> > unevenators
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > ???
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                          > >>> > impairers/unpairers)???
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > Matej
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>> >
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                          > >
                                          > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                          > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346 (20110803) __________
                                          > >
                                          > >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >http://www.eset.cz
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • James Kirchner
                                          That s quite true about the Urban Dictionary, but in the case of sock eater the definition is accurate. However, you also can t completely rely on the
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
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                                            That's quite true about the Urban Dictionary, but in the case of "sock eater" the definition is accurate.

                                            However, you also can't completely rely on the judgment of individual native speakers as to whether usage is widespread. This is particularly true with Americans in Generation X and younger who were largely raised with impoverished vocabulary input (daycare where they're talking to other kids and hardly ever to adults, dumbed-down literature in school, etc.). I frequently find that people in that age group insist that certain extremely common expressions "don't exist".

                                            Jamie

                                            On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:08 AM, Stephan von Pohl wrote:

                                            > I trust urbandictionary.com only with a large bucket of salt. I've read
                                            > through enough of the entries there to see that people put in pretty
                                            > much any words they've come across. Some of the definitions strike me as
                                            > totally off-base, while others are clearly something used by a certain
                                            > segment of the population, but there is no guarantee that the particular
                                            > usage is widespread.



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Stephan von Pohl
                                            ... Or vice versa: they might claim that something that they use is used by everyone. That s something I notice all the time on urbandictionary.com (whose
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              > This is particularly
                                              > true with Americans in Generation X and younger who were largely raised
                                              > with impoverished vocabulary input (daycare where they're talking to
                                              > other kids and hardly ever to adults, dumbed-down literature in school,
                                              > etc.). I frequently find that people in that age group insist that
                                              > certain extremely common expressions "don't exist".

                                              Or vice versa: they might claim that something that they use is used by
                                              everyone. That's something I notice all the time on urbandictionary.com
                                              (whose contributors would appear to be neither Generation X nor Y, but
                                              whatever came after that)

                                              I don't deny the accuracy of the definition. I'm just saying that we
                                              never gave the creatures a name, per se. They were either sock-eaters or
                                              more commonly referred to like this: "looks like those little creatures
                                              ate my socks again". It's not a name (at least not in my circles) like
                                              "woodpecker" or "doberman".
                                            • Charlie Stanford Translations
                                              I also happen to be a native speaker Stephan.... and I find the tone of your posting and of Jamie s enough to put my back up. If you put a hyphen Jamie between
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
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                                                I also happen to be a native speaker Stephan.... and I find the tone of your posting and of Jamie's enough to put my back up. If you put a hyphen Jamie between "odd" and "sock" then it is pretty damn obvious that the sock eater is not "strange" but eating only one of your socks - which is the basic tenet of the book. More importantly, if this forum is going to work then both of you have to use a little bit of tactfulness and respect and not get quite so horrendously dogmatic and domineering with your answers. I did not "diss" your answers so I don't see any reason why you should do the same with mine. It is putting me off answering questions. I do not know all the answers but neither do you. I would be interested to hear from other English native speakers but to me "sock eaters" sounds "very boring and characterless and a bit crap" - there you go....


                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Stephan von Pohl
                                                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:48 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e



                                                Matej, it doesn't sound mysterious or poetic. It sounds confusing and
                                                wordy. Trust us native speakers. Leave out the "odd".

                                                On 8/3/2011 2:46 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                > So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                > out the odd part
                                                >
                                                > Yes, except (to me), it sounds more mysterious with the odd/lichy thing
                                                > rather than with the sock thing.... plus it's not a normally-used word,
                                                > so that adds to the mystique too... If sock-eaters exist in the
                                                > collective American folklore, then I guess that's the way to go, but it
                                                > does take some of the poetry out..
                                                >
                                                > M
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------ Original Message ------
                                                > From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Sent: 3.8.2011 14:11:28
                                                > Subject: Re: Re[6]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                > Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                > >So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                > out the odd part, though I think that it goes without saying. If they
                                                > ate both socks you probably never know unless they were your favorites... :)
                                                > >
                                                > >"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                > >
                                                > >>
                                                > >>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are discussing
                                                > >>socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise before, would
                                                > >>you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just wondering...
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>No, it isn't - I said that in my original post... the socks bit only
                                                > >>becomes apparent when you read the explanation... and although the
                                                > >>explanation is for socks only, I guess it would work with any other
                                                > >>thing that comes in pairs (mind you, they look like socks)... In Czech
                                                > >>we say things like 'kamenozrout' (some sort of mystical creature that
                                                > >>eats stones), so lichozrout kind of has that quality about it without
                                                > >>knowing about the socks..
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >> but then given the popularity I think it has became a bit of a
                                                > >>household name among families whose kids read the books.... and with it
                                                > >>being mentioned hundred times in the film (I would expect)... it should
                                                > >>have the same snappiness to it... it doesn't necessarily have to be
                                                > >>self-explanatory, just open-ended and poetic and to do with
                                                > >>odd-numbers/breaking a pair of something if possible..
                                                > >>
                                                > >>Matej
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>------ Original Message ------
                                                > >>From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                > >>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > >>Sent: 3.8.2011 13:57:42
                                                > >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                > >>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                > >>>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are
                                                > discussing socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise
                                                > before, would you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just
                                                > wondering...
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>> > Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>In the book? - not sure... I've just seen the mob sub-species mentioned
                                                > >>>>somewhere...
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>In real life? We just say mafie - and obviously ours is of the
                                                > >>>>Russian/Balkans variety when foreign, but the word is used for any
                                                > >>>>organised crime group (more often than not to do with soccer team
                                                > >>>>owners)..
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>I just got the idea because you were discussing the
                                                > >>>>Jewish/Brooklyn/Delicatessen Sock-nosher (BTW I didn't know of any
                                                > >>>>Jewish origins and understood it no probs, but I have a feeling it's
                                                > >>>>one of those translations that a Czech client will not take:)....
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>Maybe we could have several sub-species/names depending on what the
                                                > >>>>creatures do..
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>I like sock-eaters and other suggestions alot, shame we won't have the
                                                > >>>>'lichy' thing in there, but I guess you can't have anything..
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>M
                                                > >>>>------ Original Message ------
                                                > >>>>From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                > >>>>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > >>>>Sent: 3.8.2011 14:09:41
                                                > >>>>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                > >>>>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                > >>>>> Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> Well, apparently there's going to be rival bands of lichozrouti
                                                > >>>>>> competing for socks and even a dark mob-style boss/gang.... any
                                                > >>>>>> Sock-Xers name that would go with that?
                                                > >>>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> Matej
                                                > >>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
                                                > >>>>>> From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                > >>>>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > >>>>>> Sent: 3.8.2011 13:59:19
                                                > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                                > >>>>>> Lichac^e
                                                > >>>>>> >I actually think more children would be familiar with the term
                                                > >>>>>"sock eater" than would know the word "troll".
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >"Sock nosher" sounds like a good term to use in the sequel -- maybe
                                                > >>>>>even for a sock eater with a Brooklyn accent. :-) He could run a sock
                                                > >>>>>delicatessen.
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >Jamie
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:28 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though
                                                > >>>>>its roots are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I
                                                > >>>>>always say that if a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows
                                                > >>>>>what it is, then most people in the English-speaking world probably
                                                > >>>>>do! :) But I guess it could be a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed
                                                > >>>>>to flow a bit, but using the word nosh too often in the book could get
                                                > >>>>>a bit tiresome. So I think the best ideas are sockeater or sock-troll,
                                                > >>>>>in my humble opinion.
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...
                                                > <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>Jamie,
                                                > >>>>>> >>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls
                                                > >>>>>who hide
                                                > >>>>>> >>>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them
                                                > >>>>>actually
                                                > >>>>>> >>>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At
                                                > >>>>>least
                                                > >>>>>> >>>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes
                                                > >>>>>about
                                                > >>>>>> >>>the creatures that ate our socks.
                                                > >>>>>> >>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most
                                                > >>>>>but
                                                > >>>>>> >>>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a
                                                > >>>>>little
                                                > >>>>>> >>>too much of New York Jewish)
                                                > >>>>>> >>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>Steve
                                                > >>>>>> >>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                                > >>>>>> >>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American
                                                > >>>>>"folklore" and in
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>the English language (at least in the US).
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer
                                                > >>>>>called "the
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other
                                                > >>>>>one.
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get
                                                > >>>>>into
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>Jamie
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Hi there,
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of
                                                > >>>>>a title
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>of a book/upcoming film...
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>It started life as a series of children books about weird
                                                > >>>>>'beings' who
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of
                                                > >>>>>pairs of
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a
                                                > >>>>>google text
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the
                                                > >>>>>story
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>(and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks
                                                > >>>>>of it..
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics
                                                > >>>>>come
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>through OK):
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se
                                                > >>>>>osobně
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl
                                                > >>>>>nám
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi
                                                > >>>>>Lichožroutů
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>v podání Báry
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Hrzánové.
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala
                                                > >>>>>překládat do
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>cizích jazyků.
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů
                                                > >>>>>licháče, vědět
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular,
                                                > >>>>>they have
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a
                                                > >>>>>translator)...
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                                > >>>>>'unpoetic'),
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like
                                                > >>>>>in the
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Czech title..
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO
                                                > >>>>>leans
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I
                                                > >>>>>think
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come
                                                > >>>>>up, among
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>other things:
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or
                                                > >>>>>is the
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until
                                                > >>>>>I read
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic,
                                                > >>>>>but
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being
                                                > parted...
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>To me, the first translation above is sort of boring,
                                                > >>>>>descriptive, too
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                                > >>>>>characters
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                                > >>>>>snappier
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>is needed)...
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination
                                                > >>>>>a little
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>- just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an
                                                > >>>>>odd
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Thanks for comments..
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be
                                                > >>>>>taken
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have
                                                > >>>>>become
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>uneven-eaters
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>uneveners
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>unevenators
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>???
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>impairers/unpairers)???
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>Matej
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>------------------------------------
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >>
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >------------------------------------
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                > >>>>>> > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                > >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>> >
                                                > >>>>>>
                                                > >>>>>>
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                > >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>>
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>------------------------------------
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                > >>> (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                > (20110803) __________
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>http://www.eset.cz
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >>
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >------------------------------------
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                > >
                                                > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                > (20110803) __________
                                                > >
                                                > >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >http://www.eset.cz
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >




                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Stephan von Pohl
                                                Charlie, I never meant to disrespect anyone. I m sorry if my assessment of Odd sock eater may have been too blunt. It certainly wasn t meant to be
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Charlie, I never meant to disrespect anyone. I'm sorry if my assessment
                                                  of "Odd sock eater" may have been too blunt. It certainly wasn't meant
                                                  to be disrespectful.

                                                  As for the hyphen between odd and sock... the odd-sock construction,
                                                  however we punctuate it, still sounds clumsy to my ears. Plus we still
                                                  have the problem with odd=strange. Now it might be the socks that are
                                                  strange. ;-)

                                                  Best,
                                                  Steve

                                                  On 8/3/2011 3:20 PM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:
                                                  > I also happen to be a native speaker Stephan.... and I find the tone of
                                                  > your posting and of Jamie's enough to put my back up. If you put a
                                                  > hyphen Jamie between "odd" and "sock" then it is pretty damn obvious
                                                  > that the sock eater is not "strange" but eating only one of your socks -
                                                  > which is the basic tenet of the book. More importantly, if this forum is
                                                  > going to work then both of you have to use a little bit of tactfulness
                                                  > and respect and not get quite so horrendously dogmatic and domineering
                                                  > with your answers. I did not "diss" your answers so I don't see any
                                                  > reason why you should do the same with mine. It is putting me off
                                                  > answering questions. I do not know all the answers but neither do you. I
                                                  > would be interested to hear from other English native speakers but to me
                                                  > "sock eaters" sounds "very boring and characterless and a bit crap" -
                                                  > there you go....
                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: Stephan von Pohl
                                                  > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:48 PM
                                                  > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                                  > Lichac^e
                                                  >
                                                  > Matej, it doesn't sound mysterious or poetic. It sounds confusing and
                                                  > wordy. Trust us native speakers. Leave out the "odd".
                                                  >
                                                  > On 8/3/2011 2:46 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                  > > So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                  > > out the odd part
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yes, except (to me), it sounds more mysterious with the odd/lichy thing
                                                  > > rather than with the sock thing.... plus it's not a normally-used word,
                                                  > > so that adds to the mystique too... If sock-eaters exist in the
                                                  > > collective American folklore, then I guess that's the way to go, but it
                                                  > > does take some of the poetry out..
                                                  > >
                                                  > > M
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ------ Original Message ------
                                                  > > From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                  > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>
                                                  > > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                  > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > Sent: 3.8.2011 14:11:28
                                                  > > Subject: Re: Re[6]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                  > > Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                  > > >So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                  > > out the odd part, though I think that it goes without saying. If they
                                                  > > ate both socks you probably never know unless they were your
                                                  > favorites... :)
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>
                                                  > <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are discussing
                                                  > > >>socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise before, would
                                                  > > >>you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just wondering...
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >>No, it isn't - I said that in my original post... the socks bit only
                                                  > > >>becomes apparent when you read the explanation... and although the
                                                  > > >>explanation is for socks only, I guess it would work with any other
                                                  > > >>thing that comes in pairs (mind you, they look like socks)... In Czech
                                                  > > >>we say things like 'kamenozrout' (some sort of mystical creature that
                                                  > > >>eats stones), so lichozrout kind of has that quality about it without
                                                  > > >>knowing about the socks..
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >> but then given the popularity I think it has became a bit of a
                                                  > > >>household name among families whose kids read the books.... and with it
                                                  > > >>being mentioned hundred times in the film (I would expect)... it should
                                                  > > >>have the same snappiness to it... it doesn't necessarily have to be
                                                  > > >>self-explanatory, just open-ended and poetic and to do with
                                                  > > >>odd-numbers/breaking a pair of something if possible..
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >>Matej
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >>------ Original Message ------
                                                  > > >>From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                  > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>
                                                  > > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                  > > >>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > >>Sent: 3.8.2011 13:57:42
                                                  > > >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                  > > >>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                  > > >>>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are
                                                  > > discussing socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise
                                                  > > before, would you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just
                                                  > > wondering...
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>
                                                  > <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>> > Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>In the book? - not sure... I've just seen the mob sub-species
                                                  > mentioned
                                                  > > >>>>somewhere...
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>In real life? We just say mafie - and obviously ours is of the
                                                  > > >>>>Russian/Balkans variety when foreign, but the word is used for any
                                                  > > >>>>organised crime group (more often than not to do with soccer team
                                                  > > >>>>owners)..
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>I just got the idea because you were discussing the
                                                  > > >>>>Jewish/Brooklyn/Delicatessen Sock-nosher (BTW I didn't know of any
                                                  > > >>>>Jewish origins and understood it no probs, but I have a feeling it's
                                                  > > >>>>one of those translations that a Czech client will not take:)....
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>Maybe we could have several sub-species/names depending on what the
                                                  > > >>>>creatures do..
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>I like sock-eaters and other suggestions alot, shame we won't
                                                  > have the
                                                  > > >>>>'lichy' thing in there, but I guess you can't have anything..
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>M
                                                  > > >>>>------ Original Message ------
                                                  > > >>>>From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                  > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>
                                                  > > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                  > > >>>>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > >>>>Sent: 3.8.2011 14:09:41
                                                  > > >>>>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                  > > >>>>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                  > > >>>>> Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> Well, apparently there's going to be rival bands of lichozrouti
                                                  > > >>>>>> competing for socks and even a dark mob-style boss/gang.... any
                                                  > > >>>>>> Sock-Xers name that would go with that?
                                                  > > >>>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> Matej
                                                  > > >>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
                                                  > > >>>>>> From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                  > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>
                                                  > > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > >>>>>> Sent: 3.8.2011 13:59:19
                                                  > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                  > Lichoz^routi,
                                                  > > >>>>>> Lichac^e
                                                  > > >>>>>> >I actually think more children would be familiar with the term
                                                  > > >>>>>"sock eater" than would know the word "troll".
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >"Sock nosher" sounds like a good term to use in the sequel --
                                                  > maybe
                                                  > > >>>>>even for a sock eater with a Brooklyn accent. :-) He could run a
                                                  > sock
                                                  > > >>>>>delicatessen.
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >Jamie
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:28 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though
                                                  > > >>>>>its roots are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I
                                                  > > >>>>>always say that if a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan
                                                  > knows
                                                  > > >>>>>what it is, then most people in the English-speaking world probably
                                                  > > >>>>>do! :) But I guess it could be a bit more obscure. I thought it
                                                  > seemed
                                                  > > >>>>>to flow a bit, but using the word nosh too often in the book
                                                  > could get
                                                  > > >>>>>a bit tiresome. So I think the best ideas are sockeater or
                                                  > sock-troll,
                                                  > > >>>>>in my humble opinion.
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...
                                                  > <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>
                                                  > > <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>Jamie,
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls
                                                  > > >>>>>who hide
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them
                                                  > > >>>>>actually
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the
                                                  > US). At
                                                  > > >>>>>least
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes
                                                  > > >>>>>about
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>the creatures that ate our socks.
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific
                                                  > (most
                                                  > > >>>>>but
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a
                                                  > > >>>>>little
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>too much of New York Jewish)
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>Steve
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American
                                                  > > >>>>>"folklore" and in
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>the English language (at least in the US).
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer
                                                  > > >>>>>called "the
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other
                                                  > > >>>>>one.
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters",
                                                  > every
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>American will know immediately that it's about creatures
                                                  > who get
                                                  > > >>>>>into
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>Jamie
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Hi there,
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>a client asked me to review/improve the English
                                                  > translation of
                                                  > > >>>>>a title
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>of a book/upcoming film...
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>It started life as a series of children books about weird
                                                  > > >>>>>'beings' who
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of
                                                  > > >>>>>pairs of
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a
                                                  > > >>>>>google text
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the
                                                  > idea... the
                                                  > > >>>>>story
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>(and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks
                                                  > > >>>>>of it..
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics
                                                  > > >>>>>come
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>through OK):
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i
                                                  > čtenáři
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se
                                                  > > >>>>>osobně
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a
                                                  > vyprávěl
                                                  > > >>>>>nám
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi
                                                  > > >>>>>Lichožroutů
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>v podání Báry
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Hrzánové.
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala
                                                  > > >>>>>překládat do
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>cizích jazyků.
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů
                                                  > > >>>>>licháče, vědět
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular,
                                                  > > >>>>>they have
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a
                                                  > > >>>>>translator)...
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                                  > > >>>>>'unpoetic'),
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique
                                                  > like
                                                  > > >>>>>in the
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Czech title..
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the
                                                  > meaning IMHO
                                                  > > >>>>>leans
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny),
                                                  > which I
                                                  > > >>>>>think
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come
                                                  > > >>>>>up, among
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>other things:
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Now is that the meaning that first comes into native
                                                  > minds, or
                                                  > > >>>>>is the
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti'
                                                  > until
                                                  > > >>>>>I read
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and
                                                  > poetic,
                                                  > > >>>>>but
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being
                                                  > > parted...
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>To me, the first translation above is sort of boring,
                                                  > > >>>>>descriptive, too
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                                  > > >>>>>characters
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                                  > > >>>>>snappier
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>is needed)...
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>The second one is much better, it leaves things to
                                                  > imagination
                                                  > > >>>>>a little
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>- just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an
                                                  > > >>>>>odd
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Thanks for comments..
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that
                                                  > could be
                                                  > > >>>>>taken
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have
                                                  > > >>>>>become
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even
                                                  > one??], see
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>uneven-eaters
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>uneveners
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>unevenators
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>???
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>impairers/unpairers)???
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>Matej
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>------------------------------------
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >>
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >------------------------------------
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                  > > >>>>>> > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                  > > >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>> >
                                                  > > >>>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                  > > >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>>
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>------------------------------------
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                  > > >>> (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                  > > (20110803) __________
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>http://www.eset.cz
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>>
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >------------------------------------
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                  > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                  > > (20110803) __________
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >http://www.eset.cz
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Matej Klimes
                                                  I think Stephan only made that comment because he thought I was commenting on the English version of the name when I was talking about the Czech one... I see
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I think Stephan only made that comment because he thought I was
                                                    commenting on the English version of the name when I was talking about
                                                    the Czech one... I see how frustrating it can be when you make a
                                                    suggestions as native speaker(s) and we keep trying to apply our Czech
                                                    logic to it (but this isn't a technical term, feelings and moods are
                                                    involved - or should be... that's why I keep discussing it..)

                                                    And I expect the opinions to vary a lot not only across oceans, but
                                                    also within the same country, plus there's another concern - the
                                                    English title will also be used for non-native speakers, I presume...
                                                    basically I just want lots of opinions/views and then try to use them
                                                    in either selecting the best from the existing translations or coming
                                                    up with a new one... and as I said, this time I'm not looking for a
                                                    ready-made translation/term that exists and says exactly what this is,
                                                    it could be (perhaps should be - IMHO) one that's a bit mysterious (I
                                                    could also say odd:)...

                                                    Didn't want to start a war :)

                                                    Anyway, thanks to all who contributed, keep going if you find a moment,
                                                    it's interesting to hear different perspectives
                                                    ------ Original Message ------
                                                    From: "Charlie Stanford Translations"
                                                    <charliestanfordtranslations@...>
                                                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: 3.8.2011 15:20:15
                                                    Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                                    Lichac^e
                                                    > I also happen to be a native speaker Stephan.... and I find the tone
                                                    >of your posting and of Jamie's enough to put my back up. If you put a
                                                    >hyphen Jamie between "odd" and "sock" then it is pretty damn obvious
                                                    >that the sock eater is not "strange" but eating only one of your socks
                                                    >- which is the basic tenet of the book. More importantly, if this
                                                    >forum is going to work then both of you have to use a little bit of
                                                    >tactfulness and respect and not get quite so horrendously dogmatic and
                                                    >domineering with your answers. I did not "diss" your answers so I
                                                    >don't see any reason why you should do the same with mine. It is
                                                    >putting me off answering questions. I do not know all the answers but
                                                    >neither do you. I would be interested to hear from other English
                                                    >native speakers but to me "sock eaters" sounds "very boring and
                                                    >characterless and a bit crap" - there you go....
                                                    >
                                                    >----- Original Message -----
                                                    >From: Stephan von Pohl
                                                    >To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:48 PM
                                                    >Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                                    >Lichac^e
                                                    >
                                                    >Matej, it doesn't sound mysterious or poetic. It sounds confusing and
                                                    >wordy. Trust us native speakers. Leave out the "odd".
                                                    >
                                                    >On 8/3/2011 2:46 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                    >> So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves
                                                    >the
                                                    >> out the odd part
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Yes, except (to me), it sounds more mysterious with the odd/lichy
                                                    >thing
                                                    >> rather than with the sock thing.... plus it's not a normally-used
                                                    >word,
                                                    >> so that adds to the mystique too... If sock-eaters exist in the
                                                    >> collective American folklore, then I guess that's the way to go, but
                                                    >it
                                                    >> does take some of the poetry out..
                                                    >>
                                                    >> M
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> ------ Original Message ------
                                                    >> From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                    >> <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                    >> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    >> Sent: 3.8.2011 14:11:28
                                                    >> Subject: Re: Re[6]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                    >> Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                    >> >So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves
                                                    >the
                                                    >> out the odd part, though I think that it goes without saying. If they
                                                    >> ate both socks you probably never know unless they were your
                                                    >favorites... :)
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are
                                                    >discussing
                                                    >> >>socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise before,
                                                    >would
                                                    >> >>you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just
                                                    >wondering...
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >>No, it isn't - I said that in my original post... the socks bit
                                                    >only
                                                    >> >>becomes apparent when you read the explanation... and although the
                                                    >> >>explanation is for socks only, I guess it would work with any other
                                                    >> >>thing that comes in pairs (mind you, they look like socks)... In
                                                    >Czech
                                                    >> >>we say things like 'kamenozrout' (some sort of mystical creature
                                                    >that
                                                    >> >>eats stones), so lichozrout kind of has that quality about it
                                                    >without
                                                    >> >>knowing about the socks..
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >> but then given the popularity I think it has became a bit of a
                                                    >> >>household name among families whose kids read the books.... and
                                                    >with it
                                                    >> >>being mentioned hundred times in the film (I would expect)... it
                                                    >should
                                                    >> >>have the same snappiness to it... it doesn't necessarily have to be
                                                    >> >>self-explanatory, just open-ended and poetic and to do with
                                                    >> >>odd-numbers/breaking a pair of something if possible..
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >>Matej
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >>------ Original Message ------
                                                    >> >>From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                    >> <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                    >> >>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    >> >>Sent: 3.8.2011 13:57:42
                                                    >> >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                    >> >>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                    >> >>>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are
                                                    >> discussing socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise
                                                    >> before, would you automatically know that it is socks he is eating?
                                                    >Just
                                                    >> wondering...
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>> > Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>In the book? - not sure... I've just seen the mob sub-species
                                                    >mentioned
                                                    >> >>>>somewhere...
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>In real life? We just say mafie - and obviously ours is of the
                                                    >> >>>>Russian/Balkans variety when foreign, but the word is used for
                                                    >any
                                                    >> >>>>organised crime group (more often than not to do with soccer team
                                                    >> >>>>owners)..
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>I just got the idea because you were discussing the
                                                    >> >>>>Jewish/Brooklyn/Delicatessen Sock-nosher (BTW I didn't know of
                                                    >any
                                                    >> >>>>Jewish origins and understood it no probs, but I have a feeling
                                                    >it's
                                                    >> >>>>one of those translations that a Czech client will not take:)....
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>Maybe we could have several sub-species/names depending on what
                                                    >the
                                                    >> >>>>creatures do..
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>I like sock-eaters and other suggestions alot, shame we won't
                                                    >have the
                                                    >> >>>>'lichy' thing in there, but I guess you can't have anything..
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>M
                                                    >> >>>>------ Original Message ------
                                                    >> >>>>From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                    >> <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                    >> >>>>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    >> >>>>Sent: 3.8.2011 14:09:41
                                                    >> >>>>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                    >> >>>>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                    >> >>>>> Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> Well, apparently there's going to be rival bands of
                                                    >lichozrouti
                                                    >> >>>>>> competing for socks and even a dark mob-style boss/gang....
                                                    >any
                                                    >> >>>>>> Sock-Xers name that would go with that?
                                                    >> >>>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> Matej
                                                    >> >>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
                                                    >> >>>>>> From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                    >> <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    >> >>>>>> Sent: 3.8.2011 13:59:19
                                                    >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                    >Lichoz^routi,
                                                    >> >>>>>> Lichac^e
                                                    >> >>>>>> >I actually think more children would be familiar with the
                                                    >term
                                                    >> >>>>>"sock eater" than would know the word "troll".
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >"Sock nosher" sounds like a good term to use in the sequel
                                                    >-- maybe
                                                    >> >>>>>even for a sock eater with a Brooklyn accent. :-) He could run
                                                    >a sock
                                                    >> >>>>>delicatessen.
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >Jamie
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:28 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish,
                                                    >though
                                                    >> >>>>>its roots are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I
                                                    >guess. I
                                                    >> >>>>>always say that if a prairie boy from the plains of
                                                    >Saskatchewan knows
                                                    >> >>>>>what it is, then most people in the English-speaking world
                                                    >probably
                                                    >> >>>>>do! :) But I guess it could be a bit more obscure. I thought it
                                                    >seemed
                                                    >> >>>>>to flow a bit, but using the word nosh too often in the book
                                                    >could get
                                                    >> >>>>>a bit tiresome. So I think the best ideas are sockeater or
                                                    >sock-troll,
                                                    >> >>>>>in my humble opinion.
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...
                                                    >> <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>Jamie,
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little
                                                    >trolls
                                                    >> >>>>>who hide
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them
                                                    >> >>>>>actually
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the
                                                    >US). At
                                                    >> >>>>>least
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make
                                                    >jokes
                                                    >> >>>>>about
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>the creatures that ate our socks.
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too
                                                    >specific (most
                                                    >> >>>>>but
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still
                                                    >smacks a
                                                    >> >>>>>little
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>too much of New York Jewish)
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>Steve
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American
                                                    >> >>>>>"folklore" and in
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>the English language (at least in the US).
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>Every American knows that there is a creature in every
                                                    >dryer
                                                    >> >>>>>called "the
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the
                                                    >other
                                                    >> >>>>>one.
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock
                                                    >Eaters", every
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>American will know immediately that it's about creatures
                                                    >who get
                                                    >> >>>>>into
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>Jamie
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Hi there,
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>a client asked me to review/improve the English
                                                    >translation of
                                                    >> >>>>>a title
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>of a book/upcoming film...
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>It started life as a series of children books about weird
                                                    >> >>>>>'beings' who
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>are responsible for the disappearance of single socks
                                                    >out of
                                                    >> >>>>>pairs of
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation,
                                                    >do a
                                                    >> >>>>>google text
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the
                                                    >idea... the
                                                    >> >>>>>story
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>(and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the
                                                    >looks
                                                    >> >>>>>of it..
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope
                                                    >diacritics
                                                    >> >>>>>come
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>through OK):
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila
                                                    >ponožka!
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla
                                                    >Šruta,
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i
                                                    >čtenáři
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti,
                                                    >knižní
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak
                                                    >jsme se
                                                    >> >>>>>osobně
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a
                                                    >vyprávěl
                                                    >> >>>>>nám
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si
                                                    >vynutil
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi
                                                    >> >>>>>Lichožroutů
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>v podání Báry
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Hrzánové.
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala
                                                    >> >>>>>překládat do
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>cizích jazyků.
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů
                                                    >> >>>>>licháče, vědět
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite
                                                    >popular,
                                                    >> >>>>>they have
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a
                                                    >> >>>>>translator)...
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal
                                                    >and
                                                    >> >>>>>'unpoetic'),
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>but it says what they do... there's no poetry or
                                                    >mystique like
                                                    >> >>>>>in the
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Czech title..
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the
                                                    >meaning IMHO
                                                    >> >>>>>leans
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny),
                                                    >which I
                                                    >> >>>>>think
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what
                                                    >come
                                                    >> >>>>>up, among
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>other things:
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Now is that the meaning that first comes into native
                                                    >minds, or
                                                    >> >>>>>is the
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>I must say I didn't get the full meaning of
                                                    >'Lichozrouti' until
                                                    >> >>>>>I read
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and
                                                    >poetic,
                                                    >> >>>>>but
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being
                                                    >> parted...
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>To me, the first translation above is sort of boring,
                                                    >> >>>>>descriptive, too
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus
                                                    >the
                                                    >> >>>>>characters
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>will be called that in the film... I think something a
                                                    >little
                                                    >> >>>>>snappier
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>is needed)...
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>The second one is much better, it leaves things to
                                                    >imagination
                                                    >> >>>>>a little
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>- just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about
                                                    >other
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word
                                                    >for an
                                                    >> >>>>>odd
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Thanks for comments..
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that
                                                    >could be
                                                    >> >>>>>taken
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that
                                                    >have
                                                    >> >>>>>become
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even
                                                    >one??], see
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>uneven-eaters
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>uneveners
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>unevenators
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>???
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>impairers/unpairers)???
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>Matej
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>------------------------------------
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >>
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >------------------------------------
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                    >> >>>>>> > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze
                                                    >6346
                                                    >> >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>> >
                                                    >> >>>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                    >> >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>>
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>------------------------------------
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                    >> >>> (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                    >> (20110803) __________
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>>
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >>
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >------------------------------------
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                    >> > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                    >> (20110803) __________
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >http://www.eset.cz/
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >> >
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Charlie Stanford Translations
                                                    You can stick oddsock together as one word. iginal Message ----- From: Stephan von Pohl To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 3:38 PM
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      You can stick oddsock together as one word.

                                                      iginal Message -----
                                                      From: Stephan von Pohl
                                                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 3:38 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e



                                                      Charlie, I never meant to disrespect anyone. I'm sorry if my assessment
                                                      of "Odd sock eater" may have been too blunt. It certainly wasn't meant
                                                      to be disrespectful.

                                                      As for the hyphen between odd and sock... the odd-sock construction,
                                                      however we punctuate it, still sounds clumsy to my ears. Plus we still
                                                      have the problem with odd=strange. Now it might be the socks that are
                                                      strange. ;-)

                                                      Best,
                                                      Steve

                                                      On 8/3/2011 3:20 PM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:
                                                      > I also happen to be a native speaker Stephan.... and I find the tone of
                                                      > your posting and of Jamie's enough to put my back up. If you put a
                                                      > hyphen Jamie between "odd" and "sock" then it is pretty damn obvious
                                                      > that the sock eater is not "strange" but eating only one of your socks -
                                                      > which is the basic tenet of the book. More importantly, if this forum is
                                                      > going to work then both of you have to use a little bit of tactfulness
                                                      > and respect and not get quite so horrendously dogmatic and domineering
                                                      > with your answers. I did not "diss" your answers so I don't see any
                                                      > reason why you should do the same with mine. It is putting me off
                                                      > answering questions. I do not know all the answers but neither do you. I
                                                      > would be interested to hear from other English native speakers but to me
                                                      > "sock eaters" sounds "very boring and characterless and a bit crap" -
                                                      > there you go....
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: Stephan von Pohl
                                                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:48 PM
                                                      > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                                      > Lichac^e
                                                      >
                                                      > Matej, it doesn't sound mysterious or poetic. It sounds confusing and
                                                      > wordy. Trust us native speakers. Leave out the "odd".
                                                      >
                                                      > On 8/3/2011 2:46 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                      > > So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                      > > out the odd part
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Yes, except (to me), it sounds more mysterious with the odd/lichy thing
                                                      > > rather than with the sock thing.... plus it's not a normally-used word,
                                                      > > so that adds to the mystique too... If sock-eaters exist in the
                                                      > > collective American folklore, then I guess that's the way to go, but it
                                                      > > does take some of the poetry out..
                                                      > >
                                                      > > M
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ------ Original Message ------
                                                      > > From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                      > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>
                                                      > > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                      > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > > Sent: 3.8.2011 14:11:28
                                                      > > Subject: Re: Re[6]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                      > > Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                      > > >So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                      > > out the odd part, though I think that it goes without saying. If they
                                                      > > ate both socks you probably never know unless they were your
                                                      > favorites... :)
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>
                                                      > <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are discussing
                                                      > > >>socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise before, would
                                                      > > >>you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just wondering...
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >>No, it isn't - I said that in my original post... the socks bit only
                                                      > > >>becomes apparent when you read the explanation... and although the
                                                      > > >>explanation is for socks only, I guess it would work with any other
                                                      > > >>thing that comes in pairs (mind you, they look like socks)... In Czech
                                                      > > >>we say things like 'kamenozrout' (some sort of mystical creature that
                                                      > > >>eats stones), so lichozrout kind of has that quality about it without
                                                      > > >>knowing about the socks..
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >> but then given the popularity I think it has became a bit of a
                                                      > > >>household name among families whose kids read the books.... and with it
                                                      > > >>being mentioned hundred times in the film (I would expect)... it should
                                                      > > >>have the same snappiness to it... it doesn't necessarily have to be
                                                      > > >>self-explanatory, just open-ended and poetic and to do with
                                                      > > >>odd-numbers/breaking a pair of something if possible..
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >>Matej
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >>------ Original Message ------
                                                      > > >>From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                      > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>
                                                      > > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                      > > >>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > > >>Sent: 3.8.2011 13:57:42
                                                      > > >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                      > > >>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                      > > >>>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are
                                                      > > discussing socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise
                                                      > > before, would you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just
                                                      > > wondering...
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>
                                                      > <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>> > Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>In the book? - not sure... I've just seen the mob sub-species
                                                      > mentioned
                                                      > > >>>>somewhere...
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>In real life? We just say mafie - and obviously ours is of the
                                                      > > >>>>Russian/Balkans variety when foreign, but the word is used for any
                                                      > > >>>>organised crime group (more often than not to do with soccer team
                                                      > > >>>>owners)..
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>I just got the idea because you were discussing the
                                                      > > >>>>Jewish/Brooklyn/Delicatessen Sock-nosher (BTW I didn't know of any
                                                      > > >>>>Jewish origins and understood it no probs, but I have a feeling it's
                                                      > > >>>>one of those translations that a Czech client will not take:)....
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>Maybe we could have several sub-species/names depending on what the
                                                      > > >>>>creatures do..
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>I like sock-eaters and other suggestions alot, shame we won't
                                                      > have the
                                                      > > >>>>'lichy' thing in there, but I guess you can't have anything..
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>M
                                                      > > >>>>------ Original Message ------
                                                      > > >>>>From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                      > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>
                                                      > > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                      > > >>>>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > > >>>>Sent: 3.8.2011 14:09:41
                                                      > > >>>>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                      > > >>>>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                      > > >>>>> Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> Well, apparently there's going to be rival bands of lichozrouti
                                                      > > >>>>>> competing for socks and even a dark mob-style boss/gang.... any
                                                      > > >>>>>> Sock-Xers name that would go with that?
                                                      > > >>>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> Matej
                                                      > > >>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
                                                      > > >>>>>> From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                      > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>
                                                      > > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > > >>>>>> Sent: 3.8.2011 13:59:19
                                                      > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                      > Lichoz^routi,
                                                      > > >>>>>> Lichac^e
                                                      > > >>>>>> >I actually think more children would be familiar with the term
                                                      > > >>>>>"sock eater" than would know the word "troll".
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >"Sock nosher" sounds like a good term to use in the sequel --
                                                      > maybe
                                                      > > >>>>>even for a sock eater with a Brooklyn accent. :-) He could run a
                                                      > sock
                                                      > > >>>>>delicatessen.
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >Jamie
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:28 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though
                                                      > > >>>>>its roots are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I
                                                      > > >>>>>always say that if a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan
                                                      > knows
                                                      > > >>>>>what it is, then most people in the English-speaking world probably
                                                      > > >>>>>do! :) But I guess it could be a bit more obscure. I thought it
                                                      > seemed
                                                      > > >>>>>to flow a bit, but using the word nosh too often in the book
                                                      > could get
                                                      > > >>>>>a bit tiresome. So I think the best ideas are sockeater or
                                                      > sock-troll,
                                                      > > >>>>>in my humble opinion.
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...
                                                      > <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>
                                                      > > <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>Jamie,
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls
                                                      > > >>>>>who hide
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them
                                                      > > >>>>>actually
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the
                                                      > US). At
                                                      > > >>>>>least
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes
                                                      > > >>>>>about
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>the creatures that ate our socks.
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific
                                                      > (most
                                                      > > >>>>>but
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a
                                                      > > >>>>>little
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>too much of New York Jewish)
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>Steve
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American
                                                      > > >>>>>"folklore" and in
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>the English language (at least in the US).
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer
                                                      > > >>>>>called "the
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other
                                                      > > >>>>>one.
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters",
                                                      > every
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>American will know immediately that it's about creatures
                                                      > who get
                                                      > > >>>>>into
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>Jamie
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Hi there,
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>a client asked me to review/improve the English
                                                      > translation of
                                                      > > >>>>>a title
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>of a book/upcoming film...
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>It started life as a series of children books about weird
                                                      > > >>>>>'beings' who
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of
                                                      > > >>>>>pairs of
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a
                                                      > > >>>>>google text
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the
                                                      > idea... the
                                                      > > >>>>>story
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>(and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks
                                                      > > >>>>>of it..
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics
                                                      > > >>>>>come
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>through OK):
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i
                                                      > čtenáři
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se
                                                      > > >>>>>osobně
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a
                                                      > vyprávěl
                                                      > > >>>>>nám
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi
                                                      > > >>>>>Lichožroutů
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>v podání Báry
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Hrzánové.
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala
                                                      > > >>>>>překládat do
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>cizích jazyků.
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů
                                                      > > >>>>>licháče, vědět
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular,
                                                      > > >>>>>they have
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a
                                                      > > >>>>>translator)...
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                                      > > >>>>>'unpoetic'),
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique
                                                      > like
                                                      > > >>>>>in the
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Czech title..
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the
                                                      > meaning IMHO
                                                      > > >>>>>leans
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny),
                                                      > which I
                                                      > > >>>>>think
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come
                                                      > > >>>>>up, among
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>other things:
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Now is that the meaning that first comes into native
                                                      > minds, or
                                                      > > >>>>>is the
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti'
                                                      > until
                                                      > > >>>>>I read
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and
                                                      > poetic,
                                                      > > >>>>>but
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being
                                                      > > parted...
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>To me, the first translation above is sort of boring,
                                                      > > >>>>>descriptive, too
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                                      > > >>>>>characters
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                                      > > >>>>>snappier
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>is needed)...
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>The second one is much better, it leaves things to
                                                      > imagination
                                                      > > >>>>>a little
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>- just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an
                                                      > > >>>>>odd
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Thanks for comments..
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that
                                                      > could be
                                                      > > >>>>>taken
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have
                                                      > > >>>>>become
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even
                                                      > one??], see
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>uneven-eaters
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>uneveners
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>unevenators
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>???
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>impairers/unpairers)???
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Matej
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>------------------------------------
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >>
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >------------------------------------
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                      > > >>>>>> > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                      > > >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>> >
                                                      > > >>>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                      > > >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>>
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>------------------------------------
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                      > > >>> (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                      > > (20110803) __________
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>http://www.eset.cz
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>>
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >------------------------------------
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                      > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                      > > (20110803) __________
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >http://www.eset.cz
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >




                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • James Kirchner
                                                      Odd-sock eater sounds like a creature that eats odd socks , i.e., socks that have something odd about them. North Americans (especially children) are
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        "Odd-sock eater" sounds like a creature that eats "odd socks", i.e., socks that have something odd about them. North Americans (especially children) are unlikely to use the word "odd" to mean "a sock here and there", so they would understand "odd-sock" as meaning a misfit sock.

                                                        Since the term "sock eater" is already pervasive in the two largest English-speaking countries, it's probably better to use that expression than to devise something odd that will make things explicit to UK ears but grate on everyone else's.

                                                        Jamie

                                                        On Aug 3, 2011, at 9:20 AM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:

                                                        > I also happen to be a native speaker Stephan.... and I find the tone of your posting and of Jamie's enough to put my back up. If you put a hyphen Jamie between "odd" and "sock" then it is pretty damn obvious that the sock eater is not "strange" but eating only one of your socks - which is the basic tenet of the book. More importantly, if this forum is going to work then both of you have to use a little bit of tactfulness and respect and not get quite so horrendously dogmatic and domineering with your answers. I did not "diss" your answers so I don't see any reason why you should do the same with mine. It is putting me off answering questions. I do not know all the answers but neither do you. I would be interested to hear from other English native speakers but to me "sock eaters" sounds "very boring and characterless and a bit crap" - there you go....
                                                        >
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: Stephan von Pohl
                                                        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:48 PM
                                                        > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                        >
                                                        > Matej, it doesn't sound mysterious or poetic. It sounds confusing and
                                                        > wordy. Trust us native speakers. Leave out the "odd".
                                                        >
                                                        > On 8/3/2011 2:46 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                        > > So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                        > > out the odd part
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Yes, except (to me), it sounds more mysterious with the odd/lichy thing
                                                        > > rather than with the sock thing.... plus it's not a normally-used word,
                                                        > > so that adds to the mystique too... If sock-eaters exist in the
                                                        > > collective American folklore, then I guess that's the way to go, but it
                                                        > > does take some of the poetry out..
                                                        > >
                                                        > > M
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ------ Original Message ------
                                                        > > From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                        > > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                        > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > > Sent: 3.8.2011 14:11:28
                                                        > > Subject: Re: Re[6]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                        > > Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                        > > >So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                        > > out the odd part, though I think that it goes without saying. If they
                                                        > > ate both socks you probably never know unless they were your favorites... :)
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are discussing
                                                        > > >>socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise before, would
                                                        > > >>you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just wondering...
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >>No, it isn't - I said that in my original post... the socks bit only
                                                        > > >>becomes apparent when you read the explanation... and although the
                                                        > > >>explanation is for socks only, I guess it would work with any other
                                                        > > >>thing that comes in pairs (mind you, they look like socks)... In Czech
                                                        > > >>we say things like 'kamenozrout' (some sort of mystical creature that
                                                        > > >>eats stones), so lichozrout kind of has that quality about it without
                                                        > > >>knowing about the socks..
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >> but then given the popularity I think it has became a bit of a
                                                        > > >>household name among families whose kids read the books.... and with it
                                                        > > >>being mentioned hundred times in the film (I would expect)... it should
                                                        > > >>have the same snappiness to it... it doesn't necessarily have to be
                                                        > > >>self-explanatory, just open-ended and poetic and to do with
                                                        > > >>odd-numbers/breaking a pair of something if possible..
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >>Matej
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >>------ Original Message ------
                                                        > > >>From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
                                                        > > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
                                                        > > >>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > > >>Sent: 3.8.2011 13:57:42
                                                        > > >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                        > > >>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                        > > >>>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are
                                                        > > discussing socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise
                                                        > > before, would you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just
                                                        > > wondering...
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>> > Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>In the book? - not sure... I've just seen the mob sub-species mentioned
                                                        > > >>>>somewhere...
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>In real life? We just say mafie - and obviously ours is of the
                                                        > > >>>>Russian/Balkans variety when foreign, but the word is used for any
                                                        > > >>>>organised crime group (more often than not to do with soccer team
                                                        > > >>>>owners)..
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>I just got the idea because you were discussing the
                                                        > > >>>>Jewish/Brooklyn/Delicatessen Sock-nosher (BTW I didn't know of any
                                                        > > >>>>Jewish origins and understood it no probs, but I have a feeling it's
                                                        > > >>>>one of those translations that a Czech client will not take:)....
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>Maybe we could have several sub-species/names depending on what the
                                                        > > >>>>creatures do..
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>I like sock-eaters and other suggestions alot, shame we won't have the
                                                        > > >>>>'lichy' thing in there, but I guess you can't have anything..
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>M
                                                        > > >>>>------ Original Message ------
                                                        > > >>>>From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                        > > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                        > > >>>>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > > >>>>Sent: 3.8.2011 14:09:41
                                                        > > >>>>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
                                                        > > >>>>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
                                                        > > >>>>> Do the gangs have names in Czech?
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> Well, apparently there's going to be rival bands of lichozrouti
                                                        > > >>>>>> competing for socks and even a dark mob-style boss/gang.... any
                                                        > > >>>>>> Sock-Xers name that would go with that?
                                                        > > >>>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> Matej
                                                        > > >>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
                                                        > > >>>>>> From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
                                                        > > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > > >>>>>> Sent: 3.8.2011 13:59:19
                                                        > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
                                                        > > >>>>>> Lichac^e
                                                        > > >>>>>> >I actually think more children would be familiar with the term
                                                        > > >>>>>"sock eater" than would know the word "troll".
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >"Sock nosher" sounds like a good term to use in the sequel -- maybe
                                                        > > >>>>>even for a sock eater with a Brooklyn accent. :-) He could run a sock
                                                        > > >>>>>delicatessen.
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >Jamie
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:28 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though
                                                        > > >>>>>its roots are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I
                                                        > > >>>>>always say that if a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows
                                                        > > >>>>>what it is, then most people in the English-speaking world probably
                                                        > > >>>>>do! :) But I guess it could be a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed
                                                        > > >>>>>to flow a bit, but using the word nosh too often in the book could get
                                                        > > >>>>>a bit tiresome. So I think the best ideas are sockeater or sock-troll,
                                                        > > >>>>>in my humble opinion.
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...
                                                        > > <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>> napsal(a):
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>Jamie,
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls
                                                        > > >>>>>who hide
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them
                                                        > > >>>>>actually
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At
                                                        > > >>>>>least
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes
                                                        > > >>>>>about
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>the creatures that ate our socks.
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most
                                                        > > >>>>>but
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a
                                                        > > >>>>>little
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>too much of New York Jewish)
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>Steve
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American
                                                        > > >>>>>"folklore" and in
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>the English language (at least in the US).
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer
                                                        > > >>>>>called "the
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other
                                                        > > >>>>>one.
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get
                                                        > > >>>>>into
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>Jamie
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Hi there,
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of
                                                        > > >>>>>a title
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>of a book/upcoming film...
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>It started life as a series of children books about weird
                                                        > > >>>>>'beings' who
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of
                                                        > > >>>>>pairs of
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a
                                                        > > >>>>>google text
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the
                                                        > > >>>>>story
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>(and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks
                                                        > > >>>>>of it..
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics
                                                        > > >>>>>come
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>through OK):
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>...no řekni, není to téma na román?
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se
                                                        > > >>>>>osobně
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl
                                                        > > >>>>>nám
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi
                                                        > > >>>>>Lichožroutů
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>v podání Báry
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Hrzánové.
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala
                                                        > > >>>>>překládat do
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>cizích jazyků.
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů
                                                        > > >>>>>licháče, vědět
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>víc. A chtěli je vidět.
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular,
                                                        > > >>>>>they have
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a
                                                        > > >>>>>translator)...
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
                                                        > > >>>>>'unpoetic'),
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like
                                                        > > >>>>>in the
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Czech title..
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO
                                                        > > >>>>>leans
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I
                                                        > > >>>>>think
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come
                                                        > > >>>>>up, among
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>other things:
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or
                                                        > > >>>>>is the
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until
                                                        > > >>>>>I read
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic,
                                                        > > >>>>>but
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being
                                                        > > parted...
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>To me, the first translation above is sort of boring,
                                                        > > >>>>>descriptive, too
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
                                                        > > >>>>>characters
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>will be called that in the film... I think something a little
                                                        > > >>>>>snappier
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>is needed)...
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination
                                                        > > >>>>>a little
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>- just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an
                                                        > > >>>>>odd
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Thanks for comments..
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be
                                                        > > >>>>>taken
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have
                                                        > > >>>>>become
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>explanation above), I'm all ears...
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>uneven-eaters
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>uneveners
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>unevenators
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>???
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Are there other words that could be used (impair????
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>impairers/unpairers)???
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>TIAVM for comments and suggestions
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>Matej
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>------------------------------------
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >>
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >------------------------------------
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                        > > >>>>>> > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                        > > >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>> >
                                                        > > >>>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                        > > >>>>>(20110803) __________
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>>
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>------------------------------------
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                        > > >>> (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                        > > (20110803) __________
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>http://www.eset.cz
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>>
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >>
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >------------------------------------
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
                                                        > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
                                                        > > (20110803) __________
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >http://www.eset.cz
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        >



                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Liz Spacilova
                                                        Hi, In our household, we knew the washing machine ate the socks. I guess if there was an evil little being in the house that ate single socks, earrings, gloves
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Hi,

                                                          In our household, we knew the washing machine ate the socks.

                                                          I guess if there was an evil little being in the house that ate single socks, earrings, gloves and mittens, they could be called ...

                                                          Widow makers (single socks are sometimes called "widows")
                                                          Match snatchers

                                                          ???

                                                          Liz


                                                          > > On 8/3/2011 2:46 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                          > > > So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                          > > > out the odd part
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Yes, except (to me), it sounds more mysterious with the odd/lichy thing
                                                          > > > rather than with the sock thing.... plus it's not a normally-used word,
                                                          > > > so that adds to the mystique too... If sock-eaters exist in the
                                                          > > > collective American folklore, then I guess that's the way to go, but it
                                                          > > > does take some of the poetry out..
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > M
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                        • Melvyn
                                                          ... Maybe I ll inspire the others: Well, I for one was blown away by your brainstorm. Rather clever. ... OK so erm: Mismatchers Inc. Oddlings Oddettes
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
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                                                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...> wrote:
                                                            Maybe I'll inspire the others:

                                                            Well, I for one was blown away by your brainstorm. Rather clever.

                                                            > - Laundry Thieves
                                                            <snip>

                                                            OK so erm:
                                                            Mismatchers Inc.
                                                            Oddlings
                                                            Oddettes
                                                            Oddificators
                                                            The odds (e.g. that's the third sock since Tuesday - the odds are definitely against us this week)
                                                            Les croque-chaussette (noun, masculine invariable)
                                                            Strumpffresser
                                                            Mindsockers
                                                            Socksnafflers
                                                            Sockgobblers
                                                            Sockgoblins
                                                            Sockgobblings
                                                            Oddsockgobblings

                                                            etc

                                                            M.

                                                            <snip, snip!!!>
                                                          • James Kirchner
                                                            I think Match Snatchers would be a good name for one of the gangs. Jamie ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Aug 3, 2011
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              I think "Match Snatchers" would be a good name for one of the gangs.

                                                              Jamie

                                                              On Aug 3, 2011, at 5:39 PM, Liz Spacilova wrote:

                                                              > Hi,
                                                              >
                                                              > In our household, we knew the washing machine ate the socks.
                                                              >
                                                              > I guess if there was an evil little being in the house that ate single socks, earrings, gloves and mittens, they could be called ...
                                                              >
                                                              > Widow makers (single socks are sometimes called "widows")
                                                              > Match snatchers
                                                              >
                                                              > ???
                                                              >
                                                              > Liz
                                                              >
                                                              > > > On 8/3/2011 2:46 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                              > > > > So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
                                                              > > > > out the odd part
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Yes, except (to me), it sounds more mysterious with the odd/lichy thing
                                                              > > > > rather than with the sock thing.... plus it's not a normally-used word,
                                                              > > > > so that adds to the mystique too... If sock-eaters exist in the
                                                              > > > > collective American folklore, then I guess that's the way to go, but it
                                                              > > > > does take some of the poetry out..
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > M
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              >
                                                              >



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