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CHAT: terminology and unclear sentences

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  • Melvyn
    Crumbs, I must have been thinking of drapery and pinched curtains. Or the Pirates of Penzance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1dy44jV8EM BR M.
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 31, 2011
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      Crumbs, I must have been thinking of drapery and pinched curtains. Or the Pirates of Penzance:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1dy44jV8EM

      BR

      M.

      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
      >
      > Melvyn wrote:
      >
      > Perhaps: because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the
      > sails to you. Make sure you have them hauled closely and do not let
      > them be pinched too tight.
      >
      >
      > (in a pirate's voice:) Arrgh, you land rat, talk about flogging, bring
      > up the cat'o'nine!
      >
      > You don't pinch sails (unless I suppose you pinch them from someone),
      > you pinch a boat - when sailing close-hauled (which means as much
      > against the wind as the boat goes), pinching means trying to steer even
      > more upwind, for example in gusts, or when going down a wave... (you
      > can't overdo it, because then the sails would fill on the wrong side
      > and the boat stalls.... changing sails on one of these old boats took
      > several hours and all the crew)... it slows the boat a bit, but you
      > make it further upwind, which is useful in a race, or when trying to
      > clear some land... no use on open sea..
      >
      > This calls for a bit of nautical wisdom.. never sailed with pirates, or
      > one of those old ships, but luckily the sail-related terms changed very
      > little since then:
      >
      > - Beating is the same as close-hauled, sailing against the wind,
      > beating refers to the course (relative to wind), close-hauled to the
      > position of the sails (hauled-in)
      >
      >
      > So the sentence means..
      >
      > We're sailing against the wind, the ship sails very well in this
      > course, I'll leave the sails to you (do whatever you want with them),
      > but keep them hauled-in tight and don't pinch (the boat, see
      > explanation above)..
      >
      > Now doing this in Czech is going to be difficult (if it's supposed to
      > sound 16 Century pirate-like), some of these sailing terms do not
      > exist, or are modern...
      >
      >
      > beating would be 'krizovat proti vetru', or, in modern racing terms
      > 'jet na stoupacku' (don't use that for pirates, though)
      > close-hauled (sails) would be something like 'pritazene plachty'
      > weatherly ship could be something like 'dobre vyvazena lod', alth' that
      > suggests a sleek and light craft, not one of these big fat things the
      > pirates had..
      > pinching would be 'prestoupavat' - nut again, that's a modern racing
      > term..
      >
      > Captain Matt Sparrow
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Weatherly â€" A ship that is easily sailed and maneuvered; makes little
      > leeway when sailing to windward.
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------ Original Message ------
      > From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: 29.3.2011 0:50:36
      > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: terminology and unclear sentences
      > >
      > >
      > >--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Hana Jarolímová <jarolimo@> wrote:
      > >The „Brethren of the
      > >> Coast“ both in name and most certainly in number.“ â€" jde mi o
      > >to
      > >> pojmenování, nevím, jestli mi uniká nějaký dvojsmysl slova
      > >Coast ve
      > >> spojení s počtem...
      > >
      > >Tady nevidim zadny dvojsmysl. Pobrezni bratri jsou historicky zalozena
      > >skupina piratu.
      > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brethren_of_the_coast
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> 2. His accent was as far westbound as Devlin´s
      > >
      > >Valerie's explanation sounds good.
      > >
      > >Just add a few "Aaaa Jime, hochu" sounds for good measure.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> 3. he was swagger and stagger; lucky, dirty soul â€" nejedná se o
      > >nějaká
      > >> ustálená spojení (idiomy nebo tak něco)?
      > >
      > >Speaks for itself really. Wouldn't look for anything figurative here.
      > >Swagger and stagger seems to crop up quite a bit in nautical contexts.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> 4. English coffee boy (Pirate: we don´t look like no English coffee
      > >boys)
      > >
      > >My guess is that these chaps did not believe they looked like menial
      > >delivery boys from the Home Counties. Pure speculation, you understand.
      > >
      > >>
      > >> 5. „Beating upwind as we are and as weatherly as the ship is, the
      > >sails
      > >> are up to you. Close-hauled and no pinching.“
      > >
      > >Weatherly â€" A ship that is easily sailed and maneuvered; makes
      > >little leeway when sailing to windward.
      > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms
      > >
      > >Perhaps: because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the
      > >sails to you. Make sure you have them hauled closely and do not let
      > >them be pinched too tight.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> 5. „The instrument (=backstaff) was longer than a musketoon, the
      > >sun was
      > >> to his back and he prayed for a shadow to fall in the horizon vane
      > >
      > >So this bit you know:
      > >The backstaff or back-quadrant, is a navigational instrument that was
      > >used to measure the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the
      > >sun or moon. When observing the sun, users kept the sun to their back
      > >(hence the name) and observed the shadow cast by the upper vane on a
      > >horizon vane.
      > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backstaff
      > >
      > >to
      > >> qualify his stance upon the deck
      > >
      > >OK this is the awkward bit. Perhaps to give his position on deck a
      > >numerical value or meaning of some kind????
      > >
      > >as the last crank of the capstain
      > >> dragging up the anchor rang in his ears.“
      > >
      > >The capstan (note spelling) makes a loud noise the last time it is
      > >cranked up.
      > >
      > >BR
      > >
      > >M.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5985
      > >(20110325) __________
      > >
      > >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
      > >
      > >http://www.eset.cz/
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Melvyn
      ... http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php/6950-Another-from-Charlotte Or this one: If it is important to get to windward as fast as possible, I will
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 1, 2011
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        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
        > You don't pinch sails (unless I suppose you pinch them from someone),
        > you pinch a boat - when sailing close-hauled

        I am sure you are right. All the same, I wonder what this jolly Jack Tar had in mind:

        >suggested I call myself Captain Pinchy as I pinch the sails too much when sailing on a close haul.
        http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php/6950-Another-from-Charlotte

        Or this one:
        If it is important to get to windward as fast as possible, I will turn on one engine and pinch the sails extremely close to the wind.
        http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/how-close-47206.html

        :-) And here is a special dedication for Matej:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ7SVMVrick

        BR

        M.
      • Matej Klimes
        Awwright then, I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch the boat - since the two are connected and steering the boat upwind turns the sails upwind
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 1, 2011
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          Awwright then, I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch
          the boat - since the two are connected and steering the boat upwind
          turns the sails upwind as well (and gets them flapping)... it wouldn't
          be much use just hauling in the sails tight and still steering the
          original course, or hauling the sails in too tight (to the point of
          pulling them across to start flapping) while steering true...

          What I'm trying to say is that pinching is done by steering, the sails
          are already pulled in tight for upwind and then you steer the boat into
          the 'dead angle' just a little bit when you have a chance, without
          doing anything to the sails and taking care not to get the boat turned
          by the wind...

          I guess the main problem with that translation is that the only pirate
          tradition we have in Czech literature is based on Vltava and involves
          Primator Dittrich, a paddle steamer ..

          M


          ------ Original Message ------
          From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: 1.4.2011 11:17:54
          Subject: [Czechlist] Re: terminology and unclear sentences
          >
          >
          >--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
          >> You don't pinch sails (unless I suppose you pinch them from
          >someone),
          >> you pinch a boat - when sailing close-hauled
          >
          >I am sure you are right. All the same, I wonder what this jolly Jack
          >Tar had in mind:
          >
          >>suggested I call myself Captain Pinchy as I pinch the sails too much
          >when sailing on a close haul.
          >http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php/6950-Another-from-Charlotte
          >
          >Or this one:
          >If it is important to get to windward as fast as possible, I will turn
          >on one engine and pinch the sails extremely close to the wind.
          >http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/how-close-47206.html
          >
          >:-) And here is a special dedication for Matej:
          >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ7SVMVrick
          >
          >BR
          >
          >M.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5999
          >(20110330) __________
          >
          >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
          >
          >http://www.eset.cz/


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Matej Klimes
          I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch .. that was you can SAY of course... M ... From: Matej Klimes To:
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 1, 2011
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            'I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch ..'

            that was 'you can SAY' of course...

            M

            ------ Original Message ------
            From: "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: 1.4.2011 12:03:34
            Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: terminology and unclear sentences
            > Awwright then, I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch
            >the boat - since the two are connected and steering the boat upwind
            >turns the sails upwind as well (and gets them flapping)... it wouldn't
            >be much use just hauling in the sails tight and still steering the
            >original course, or hauling the sails in too tight (to the point of
            >pulling them across to start flapping) while steering true...
            >
            >What I'm trying to say is that pinching is done by steering, the sails
            >are already pulled in tight for upwind and then you steer the boat
            >into
            >the 'dead angle' just a little bit when you have a chance, without
            >doing anything to the sails and taking care not to get the boat turned
            >by the wind...
            >
            >I guess the main problem with that translation is that the only pirate
            >tradition we have in Czech literature is based on Vltava and involves
            >Primator Dittrich, a paddle steamer ..
            >
            >M
            >
            >
            >------ Original Message ------
            >From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
            >To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            >Sent: 1.4.2011 11:17:54
            >Subject: [Czechlist] Re: terminology and unclear sentences
            >>
            >>
            >>--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
            >>> You don't pinch sails (unless I suppose you pinch them from
            >>someone),
            >>> you pinch a boat - when sailing close-hauled
            >>
            >>I am sure you are right. All the same, I wonder what this jolly Jack
            >>Tar had in mind:
            >>
            >>>suggested I call myself Captain Pinchy as I pinch the sails too much
            >>when sailing on a close haul.
            >>http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php/6950-Another-from-Charlotte
            >>
            >>Or this one:
            >>If it is important to get to windward as fast as possible, I will
            >turn
            >>on one engine and pinch the sails extremely close to the wind.
            >>http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/how-close-47206.html
            >>
            >>:-) And here is a special dedication for Matej:
            >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ7SVMVrick
            >>
            >>BR
            >>
            >>M.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5999
            >>(20110330) __________
            >>
            >>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
            >>
            >>http://www.eset.cz/
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5999
            >(20110330) __________
            >
            >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
            >
            >http://www.eset.cz/


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Melvyn
            ... Perhaps a little judicious use of vodacky slang to render pirate talk might be considered a humorous touch. http://www.lavdis.cz/index.php?pg=222&ln=cz And
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 1, 2011
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              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
              >

              > I guess the main problem with that translation is that the only pirate
              > tradition we have in Czech literature is based on Vltava and involves
              > Primator Dittrich, a paddle steamer ..

              Perhaps a little judicious use of vodacky slang to render pirate talk might be considered a humorous touch.

              http://www.lavdis.cz/index.php?pg=222&ln=cz

              And Hana, tell your friend that if she joins Czechlist she gets a substantial discount on our pirate talk lessons:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cKCkbWDGwE


              BR

              M.
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