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terminology and unclear sentences

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  • Hana Jarolímová
    Dobry vecer vsem. Poradi nekdo kolegyni, ktera preklada knizku o piratech a neni na Czechlistu. Co jsem vedela, to jsem poradila. Zbytek posilam tady,
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 28, 2011
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      Dobry vecer vsem. Poradi nekdo kolegyni, ktera preklada knizku o
      piratech a neni na Czechlistu.

      Co jsem vedela, to jsem poradila. Zbytek posilam tady, protoze, kdyz to
      nebudete vedet vy tady, tak uz ji neporadi asi nikdo.

      Omlouvam se diakritiku v textu.

      Hanka


      1. „... even since the old Tortuga buccaneers, this notion of
      brotherhood had marked the pirate´s success. The „Brethren of the
      Coast“ both in name and most certainly in number.“ – jde mi o to
      pojmenování, nevím, jestli mi uniká nějaký dvojsmysl slova Coast ve
      spojení s počtem...


      2. His accent was as far westbound as Devlin´s – tady si nejsem jistá,
      jestli oba tak špatně napodobují západní přízvuk, nebo jestli jsou oba
      daleko ze západu nebo ještě něco úplně jiného


      3. he was swagger and stagger; lucky, dirty soul – nejedná se o nějaká
      ustálená spojení (idiomy nebo tak něco)?


      4. English coffee boy (Pirate: we don´t look like no English coffee boys)

      5. „Beating upwind as we are and as weatherly as the ship is, the sails
      are up to you. Close-hauled and no pinching.“


      5. „The instrument (=backstaff) was longer than a musketoon, the sun was
      to his back and he prayed for a shadow to fall in the horizon vane to
      qualify his stance upon the deck as the last crank of the capstain
      dragging up the anchor rang in his ears.“ - pricemz ten "horizon vane"
      je jakasi soucast toho navigacniho pristroje (backstaff) - vubec
      nechapem smysl vety

      6. „I was flogged for not tugging my forelock to a snotty.“ (možný
      dvojsmysl???)
    • Melvyn
      ... Byl potrestan bicovanim, protoze neprojevil uctu podporucikovi. Mozna, ze prehani anebo mluvi az moc obrazne a nemusime to vzit naprosto doslovne ale
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 28, 2011
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        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Hana Jarolímová <jarolimo@...>


        > 6. „I was flogged for not tugging my forelock to a snotty.“ (možný
        > dvojsmysl???)

        Byl potrestan bicovanim, protoze neprojevil uctu podporucikovi. Mozna, ze prehani anebo mluvi az moc obrazne a nemusime to vzit naprosto doslovne ale zakladni smysl neni IMHO obouvyznamny.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midshipman
        In Royal Navy slang, a midshipman is sometimes referred to as a "snotty". Two popular stories give origins for the term: the first claims that it arose due to a shortage of handkerchiefs among midshipmen, who would consequently use their sleeves to wipe their noses. Prince William, later William IV, is sometimes cited as a notorious example of this practice among midshipmen.[59] The other story claims that the three buttons formerly sewn onto midshipmen's jacket cuffs were placed there to prevent them from wiping their noses on their sleeves.

        Tugging your forelock:
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/94247240@N00/3526189934

        Podivam se na dalsi problemy pozdeji.

        S pozdravem,

        M.
      • Valerie Talacko
        best I can do at the moment... 1. It sounds as if he means there were a lot of them, like the Brethren of the Coast - i.e. like the brethren, they were close
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 28, 2011
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          best I can do at the moment...

          1. It sounds as if he means there were a lot of them, like the Brethren
          of the Coast - i.e. like the brethren, they were close (similar in name)
          and there were also a lot of them (similar in number). That's all I can
          think of.

          2. "westbound" means "heading west," but seems to be misused here to
          mean "of the west". I see Devlin comes from Ireland - from how far west
          in Ireland I don't know - but I guess he's saying "jeho prizvuk byl
          stejne zapadni jak prizvuk Devlina", i.e. they must have both come from
          the same area.

          3. No, these aren't ustalena spojeni.

          4. No idea, sorry!

          5. He seems to be saying "although the ship is able to hold her course
          well when sailing close to the wind, the sails are up to you... but keep
          them close-hauled and don't be tempted to sail too close to the wind.
          But I don't see how "the sails are up to you" fits into the meaning
          there. Plus "Beating...as we are" has the sense of "given that we're"
          while "as weatherly..." has the sense of "although..." and I don't see
          how those two fit together grammatically.

          5.b. hmmm... (I don't envy your friend!)

          6. No double meaning as far as I can see - he was flogged for not
          tugging his forelock to i.e. saluting a midshipman (low-ranking
          officer).





          On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 21:58 +0200, Hana Jarolímová wrote:
          >
          >
          > Dobry vecer vsem. Poradi nekdo kolegyni, ktera preklada knizku o
          > piratech a neni na Czechlistu.
          >
          > Co jsem vedela, to jsem poradila. Zbytek posilam tady, protoze, kdyz
          > to
          > nebudete vedet vy tady, tak uz ji neporadi asi nikdo.
          >
          > Omlouvam se diakritiku v textu.
          >
          > Hanka
          >
          > 1. „... even since the old Tortuga buccaneers, this notion of
          > brotherhood had marked the pirate´s success. The „Brethren of the
          > Coast“ both in name and most certainly in number.“ – jde mi o to
          > pojmenování, nevím, jestli mi uniká nějaký dvojsmysl slova Coast ve
          > spojení s počtem...
          >
          > 2. His accent was as far westbound as Devlin´s – tady si nejsem jistá,
          > jestli oba tak špatně napodobují západní přízvuk, nebo jestli jsou oba
          > daleko ze západu nebo ještě něco úplně jiného
          >
          > 3. he was swagger and stagger; lucky, dirty soul – nejedná se o nějaká
          > ustálená spojení (idiomy nebo tak něco)?
          >
          > 4. English coffee boy (Pirate: we don´t look like no English coffee
          > boys)
          >
          > 5. „Beating upwind as we are and as weatherly as the ship is, the
          > sails
          > are up to you. Close-hauled and no pinching.“
          >
          > 5. „The instrument (=backstaff) was longer than a musketoon, the sun
          > was
          > to his back and he prayed for a shadow to fall in the horizon vane to
          > qualify his stance upon the deck as the last crank of the capstain
          > dragging up the anchor rang in his ears.“ - pricemz ten "horizon
          > vane"
          > je jakasi soucast toho navigacniho pristroje (backstaff) - vubec
          > nechapem smysl vety
          >
          > 6. „I was flogged for not tugging my forelock to a snotty.“ (možný
          > dvojsmysl???)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Melvyn
          ... The „Brethren of the ... Tady nevidim zadny dvojsmysl. Pobrezni bratri jsou historicky zalozena skupina piratu.
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 28, 2011
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            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Hana Jarolímová <jarolimo@...> wrote:
            The „Brethren of the
            > Coast“ both in name and most certainly in number.“ â€" jde mi o to
            > pojmenování, nevím, jestli mi uniká nějaký dvojsmysl slova Coast ve
            > spojení s počtem...

            Tady nevidim zadny dvojsmysl. Pobrezni bratri jsou historicky zalozena skupina piratu.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brethren_of_the_coast
            >
            >
            > 2. His accent was as far westbound as Devlin´s

            Valerie's explanation sounds good.

            Just add a few "Aaaa Jime, hochu" sounds for good measure.
            >
            >
            > 3. he was swagger and stagger; lucky, dirty soul â€" nejedná se o nějaká
            > ustálená spojení (idiomy nebo tak něco)?

            Speaks for itself really. Wouldn't look for anything figurative here. Swagger and stagger seems to crop up quite a bit in nautical contexts.
            >
            >
            > 4. English coffee boy (Pirate: we don´t look like no English coffee boys)

            My guess is that these chaps did not believe they looked like menial delivery boys from the Home Counties. Pure speculation, you understand.



            >
            > 5. „Beating upwind as we are and as weatherly as the ship is, the sails
            > are up to you. Close-hauled and no pinching.“

            Weatherly â€" A ship that is easily sailed and maneuvered; makes little leeway when sailing to windward.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms

            Perhaps: because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the sails to you. Make sure you have them hauled closely and do not let them be pinched too tight.
            >
            >
            > 5. „The instrument (=backstaff) was longer than a musketoon, the sun was
            > to his back and he prayed for a shadow to fall in the horizon vane

            So this bit you know:
            The backstaff or back-quadrant, is a navigational instrument that was used to measure the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the sun or moon. When observing the sun, users kept the sun to their back (hence the name) and observed the shadow cast by the upper vane on a horizon vane.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backstaff


            to
            > qualify his stance upon the deck

            OK this is the awkward bit. Perhaps to give his position on deck a numerical value or meaning of some kind????

            as the last crank of the capstain
            > dragging up the anchor rang in his ears.“


            The capstan (note spelling) makes a loud noise the last time it is cranked up.

            BR

            M.
          • Hana Jarolímová
            Melvyne a Valerie, diky moc, predam dal. Vzdycky, kdyz vidim podobne texty, jak jsem rada za neskodne manualy ke kopirkam a podobnym zarizenim, ktere
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 28, 2011
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              Melvyne a Valerie, diky moc, predam dal.

              Vzdycky, kdyz vidim podobne texty, jak jsem rada za neskodne manualy ke
              kopirkam a podobnym zarizenim, ktere prekladam:-)

              Hanka
            • Valerie Talacko
              ... you yes - I agree that because seems to be the most likely overall meaning here, although it doesn t fit perfectly with as... is , which has the sense
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 29, 2011
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                >because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the sails to
                you

                yes - I agree that "because" seems to be the most likely overall meaning
                here, although it doesn't fit perfectly with "as... is", which has the
                sense of "although."

                Re. the backstaff - would probably need more context. It sounds as if he
                needs to get a reading in a hurry (they have to set off in a hurry?) so
                he's hoping the sun isn't behind a cloud or something and he'll get a
                shadow? but how does this fit with "qualify his stance on deck? Maybe
                he's not sure the sun is right at his back - he may have to change
                position?

                Valerie

                On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 22:50 +0000, Melvyn wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Hana Jarolímová <jarolimo@...>
                > wrote:
                > The „Brethren of the
                > > Coast“ both in name and most certainly in number.“ â€" jde mi o
                > to
                > > pojmenování, nevím, jestli mi uniká nějaký dvojsmysl slova
                > Coast ve
                > > spojení s počtem...
                >
                > Tady nevidim zadny dvojsmysl. Pobrezni bratri jsou historicky zalozena
                > skupina piratu.
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brethren_of_the_coast
                > >
                > >
                > > 2. His accent was as far westbound as Devlin´s
                >
                > Valerie's explanation sounds good.
                >
                > Just add a few "Aaaa Jime, hochu" sounds for good measure.
                > >
                > >
                > > 3. he was swagger and stagger; lucky, dirty soul â€" nejedná se o
                > nějaká
                > > ustálená spojení (idiomy nebo tak něco)?
                >
                > Speaks for itself really. Wouldn't look for anything figurative here.
                > Swagger and stagger seems to crop up quite a bit in nautical
                > contexts.
                > >
                > >
                > > 4. English coffee boy (Pirate: we don´t look like no English coffee
                > boys)
                >
                > My guess is that these chaps did not believe they looked like menial
                > delivery boys from the Home Counties. Pure speculation, you
                > understand.
                >
                > >
                > > 5. „Beating upwind as we are and as weatherly as the ship is, the
                > sails
                > > are up to you. Close-hauled and no pinching.“
                >
                > Weatherly â€" A ship that is easily sailed and maneuvered; makes
                > little leeway when sailing to windward.
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms
                >
                > Perhaps: because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the
                > sails to you. Make sure you have them hauled closely and do not let
                > them be pinched too tight.
                > >
                > >
                > > 5. „The instrument (=backstaff) was longer than a musketoon, the
                > sun was
                > > to his back and he prayed for a shadow to fall in the horizon vane
                >
                > So this bit you know:
                > The backstaff or back-quadrant, is a navigational instrument that was
                > used to measure the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the
                > sun or moon. When observing the sun, users kept the sun to their back
                > (hence the name) and observed the shadow cast by the upper vane on a
                > horizon vane.
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backstaff
                >
                > to
                > > qualify his stance upon the deck
                >
                > OK this is the awkward bit. Perhaps to give his position on deck a
                > numerical value or meaning of some kind????
                >
                > as the last crank of the capstain
                > > dragging up the anchor rang in his ears.“
                >
                > The capstan (note spelling) makes a loud noise the last time it is
                > cranked up.
                >
                > BR
                >
                > M.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Melvyn
                ... I am presuming the grammar here is all kinda pseudo-pseudo-archaic, but you are quite right - if the context allows for although (which I doubt) then go
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 29, 2011
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                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Valerie Talacko <valerie@...> wrote:

                  > yes - I agree that "because" seems to be the most likely overall meaning
                  > here, although it doesn't fit perfectly with "as... is", which has the
                  > sense of "although."

                  I am presuming the grammar here is all kinda pseudo-pseudo-archaic, but you are quite right - if the context allows for "although" (which I doubt) then go for "although". Otherwise go for because, as, since, considering, vzhledem k tomu, jelikoz, ponevadz (pac?) and the like.

                  Splice the mainbrace, shiver me timbers etc.

                  M.
                • Valerie Talacko
                  No, I think you re right with because - although doesn t fit the meaning. Sometimes his archaising gets in the way of what would be permissible either then
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 29, 2011
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                    No, I think you're right with "because" - "although" doesn't fit the
                    meaning. Sometimes his archaising gets in the way of what would be
                    permissible either then or now, I think. But who knows?

                    (I see that Patrick O'Brian - Master & Commander etc. - "admitted to one
                    interviewer that he occasionally made some of it up, but for most of us
                    who couldn't tell a futtock shroud from a gudgeon, it would be
                    impossible to tell.")

                    On Tue, 2011-03-29 at 10:36 +0000, Melvyn wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Valerie Talacko <valerie@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > yes - I agree that "because" seems to be the most likely overall
                    > meaning
                    > > here, although it doesn't fit perfectly with "as... is", which has
                    > the
                    > > sense of "although."
                    >
                    > I am presuming the grammar here is all kinda pseudo-pseudo-archaic,
                    > but you are quite right - if the context allows for "although" (which
                    > I doubt) then go for "although". Otherwise go for because, as, since,
                    > considering, vzhledem k tomu, jelikoz, ponevadz (pac?) and the like.
                    >
                    > Splice the mainbrace, shiver me timbers etc.
                    >
                    > M.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Michael A. Trittipo
                    ... . . . ... As time has elapsed since the original question, you ve received good answers already to all the questions. I would just add, as to the only
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 29, 2011
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                      On 3/29/2011 2:13 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:
                      >> because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the sails to
                      > you
                      >
                      > yes - I agree that "because" seems to be the most likely overall meaning
                      > here, although it doesn't fit perfectly with "as... is", which has the
                      > sense of "although."
                      . . .
                      >>> 5. „Beating upwind as we are and as weatherly as the ship is, the
                      >> sails are up to you. Close-hauled and no pinching.“

                      As time has elapsed since the original question, you've received good
                      answers already to all the questions. I would just add, as to the only
                      question maybe in play, that "because" is very close and perfectly
                      reasonable, but "although" or "despite" is clearly not correct. "As . .
                      . is" very commonly has the meaning of "because" -- "as he was late, he
                      had to hurry" might be an example. One might also substitute "given
                      that," or "seeing as how," or "inasmuch as" or "in view of the fact
                      that," or any similar "vzhledem k tomu" phrase. "Given the fact that we
                      are beating upwind as we are doing, and considering how weatherly the
                      ship is, . . .." But as you've already decided on that, none need
                      belabor this.
                    • Michael A. Trittipo
                      ... My apologies. I see where you re coming from. By itself, as [adj.] as [N.] is can be ambiguous as to whether it s although N. is adj. or because N.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 29, 2011
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                        On 3/29/2011 9:10 PM, Michael A. Trittipo wrote:
                        >>>> 5. . . . as weatherly as the ship is . . ..

                        My apologies. I see where you're coming from. By itself, "as [adj.] as
                        [N.] is" can be ambiguous as to whether it's "although N. is adj." or
                        "because N. is adj." "As tall as he was, he could [easily|readily] see
                        over everyone else" = "Being as tall as he was" or "because he was so
                        tall," but "As tall as he was, he [still|nevertheless] couldn't reach
                        the apple" = "Despite being so tall, he could not" (with a negative).
                        In the specific sentence, though, with the preposition "and" and the
                        previous -ing construction, I think the "because" meaning is clear.
                      • Hana Jarolímová
                        Jeste jednou MOC dekuji Melvynovi, Valerii a Michaelovi za vycerpavaji odpovedi - vse jsem preposlala dotycne. zdravi Hanka J
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 29, 2011
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                          Jeste jednou MOC dekuji Melvynovi, Valerii a Michaelovi za vycerpavaji
                          odpovedi - vse jsem preposlala dotycne.
                          zdravi
                          Hanka J


                          Michael A. Trittipo wrote:

                          >On 3/29/2011 9:10 PM, Michael A. Trittipo wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >>>>>5. . . . as weatherly as the ship is . . ..
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>>
                          >
                          >My apologies. I see where you're coming from. By itself, "as [adj.] as
                          >[N.] is" can be ambiguous as to whether it's "although N. is adj." or
                          >"because N. is adj." "As tall as he was, he could [easily|readily] see
                          >over everyone else" = "Being as tall as he was" or "because he was so
                          >tall," but "As tall as he was, he [still|nevertheless] couldn't reach
                          >the apple" = "Despite being so tall, he could not" (with a negative).
                          >In the specific sentence, though, with the preposition "and" and the
                          >previous -ing construction, I think the "because" meaning is clear.
                          >
                          >
                          >------------------------------------
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                        • Valerie Talacko
                          I think if there s a being or similar participle there it makes a difference - Being as tall as he was does equal because he was so tall. But if you
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 29, 2011
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                            I think if there's a "being" or similar participle there it makes a
                            difference - "Being as tall as he was" does equal "because he was so
                            tall." But if you leave out the being, then "as tall as he was" can only
                            mean "although he was tall" (and is misused in the weatherly sentence).


                            On Tue, 2011-03-29 at 21:22 -0500, Michael A. Trittipo wrote:
                            >
                            > On 3/29/2011 9:10 PM, Michael A. Trittipo wrote:
                            > >>>> 5. . . . as weatherly as the ship is . . ..
                            >
                            > My apologies. I see where you're coming from. By itself, "as [adj.]
                            > as
                            > [N.] is" can be ambiguous as to whether it's "although N. is adj." or
                            > "because N. is adj." "As tall as he was, he could [easily|readily]
                            > see
                            > over everyone else" = "Being as tall as he was" or "because he was so
                            > tall," but "As tall as he was, he [still|nevertheless] couldn't reach
                            > the apple" = "Despite being so tall, he could not" (with a negative).
                            > In the specific sentence, though, with the preposition "and" and the
                            > previous -ing construction, I think the "because" meaning is clear.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Matej Klimes
                            Melvyn wrote: Perhaps: because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the sails to you. Make sure you have them hauled closely and do not let them be
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 31, 2011
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                              Melvyn wrote:

                              Perhaps: because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the
                              sails to you. Make sure you have them hauled closely and do not let
                              them be pinched too tight.


                              (in a pirate's voice:) Arrgh, you land rat, talk about flogging, bring
                              up the cat'o'nine!

                              You don't pinch sails (unless I suppose you pinch them from someone),
                              you pinch a boat - when sailing close-hauled (which means as much
                              against the wind as the boat goes), pinching means trying to steer even
                              more upwind, for example in gusts, or when going down a wave... (you
                              can't overdo it, because then the sails would fill on the wrong side
                              and the boat stalls.... changing sails on one of these old boats took
                              several hours and all the crew)... it slows the boat a bit, but you
                              make it further upwind, which is useful in a race, or when trying to
                              clear some land... no use on open sea..

                              This calls for a bit of nautical wisdom.. never sailed with pirates, or
                              one of those old ships, but luckily the sail-related terms changed very
                              little since then:

                              - Beating is the same as close-hauled, sailing against the wind,
                              beating refers to the course (relative to wind), close-hauled to the
                              position of the sails (hauled-in)


                              So the sentence means..

                              We're sailing against the wind, the ship sails very well in this
                              course, I'll leave the sails to you (do whatever you want with them),
                              but keep them hauled-in tight and don't pinch (the boat, see
                              explanation above)..

                              Now doing this in Czech is going to be difficult (if it's supposed to
                              sound 16 Century pirate-like), some of these sailing terms do not
                              exist, or are modern...


                              beating would be 'krizovat proti vetru', or, in modern racing terms
                              'jet na stoupacku' (don't use that for pirates, though)
                              close-hauled (sails) would be something like 'pritazene plachty'
                              weatherly ship could be something like 'dobre vyvazena lod', alth' that
                              suggests a sleek and light craft, not one of these big fat things the
                              pirates had..
                              pinching would be 'prestoupavat' - nut again, that's a modern racing
                              term..

                              Captain Matt Sparrow






                              Weatherly â€" A ship that is easily sailed and maneuvered; makes little
                              leeway when sailing to windward.
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms





                              ------ Original Message ------
                              From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: 29.3.2011 0:50:36
                              Subject: [Czechlist] Re: terminology and unclear sentences
                              >
                              >
                              >--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Hana Jarolímová <jarolimo@...> wrote:
                              >The „Brethren of the
                              >> Coast“ both in name and most certainly in number.“ â€" jde mi o
                              >to
                              >> pojmenování, nevím, jestli mi uniká nějaký dvojsmysl slova
                              >Coast ve
                              >> spojení s počtem...
                              >
                              >Tady nevidim zadny dvojsmysl. Pobrezni bratri jsou historicky zalozena
                              >skupina piratu.
                              >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brethren_of_the_coast
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> 2. His accent was as far westbound as Devlin´s
                              >
                              >Valerie's explanation sounds good.
                              >
                              >Just add a few "Aaaa Jime, hochu" sounds for good measure.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> 3. he was swagger and stagger; lucky, dirty soul â€" nejedná se o
                              >nějaká
                              >> ustálená spojení (idiomy nebo tak něco)?
                              >
                              >Speaks for itself really. Wouldn't look for anything figurative here.
                              >Swagger and stagger seems to crop up quite a bit in nautical contexts.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> 4. English coffee boy (Pirate: we don´t look like no English coffee
                              >boys)
                              >
                              >My guess is that these chaps did not believe they looked like menial
                              >delivery boys from the Home Counties. Pure speculation, you understand.
                              >
                              >>
                              >> 5. „Beating upwind as we are and as weatherly as the ship is, the
                              >sails
                              >> are up to you. Close-hauled and no pinching.“
                              >
                              >Weatherly â€" A ship that is easily sailed and maneuvered; makes
                              >little leeway when sailing to windward.
                              >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms
                              >
                              >Perhaps: because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the
                              >sails to you. Make sure you have them hauled closely and do not let
                              >them be pinched too tight.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> 5. „The instrument (=backstaff) was longer than a musketoon, the
                              >sun was
                              >> to his back and he prayed for a shadow to fall in the horizon vane
                              >
                              >So this bit you know:
                              >The backstaff or back-quadrant, is a navigational instrument that was
                              >used to measure the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the
                              >sun or moon. When observing the sun, users kept the sun to their back
                              >(hence the name) and observed the shadow cast by the upper vane on a
                              >horizon vane.
                              >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backstaff
                              >
                              >to
                              >> qualify his stance upon the deck
                              >
                              >OK this is the awkward bit. Perhaps to give his position on deck a
                              >numerical value or meaning of some kind????
                              >
                              >as the last crank of the capstain
                              >> dragging up the anchor rang in his ears.“
                              >
                              >The capstan (note spelling) makes a loud noise the last time it is
                              >cranked up.
                              >
                              >BR
                              >
                              >M.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5985
                              >(20110325) __________
                              >
                              >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                              >
                              >http://www.eset.cz/


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Melvyn
                              Crumbs, I must have been thinking of drapery and pinched curtains. Or the Pirates of Penzance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1dy44jV8EM BR M.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 31, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Crumbs, I must have been thinking of drapery and pinched curtains. Or the Pirates of Penzance:

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1dy44jV8EM

                                BR

                                M.

                                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Melvyn wrote:
                                >
                                > Perhaps: because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the
                                > sails to you. Make sure you have them hauled closely and do not let
                                > them be pinched too tight.
                                >
                                >
                                > (in a pirate's voice:) Arrgh, you land rat, talk about flogging, bring
                                > up the cat'o'nine!
                                >
                                > You don't pinch sails (unless I suppose you pinch them from someone),
                                > you pinch a boat - when sailing close-hauled (which means as much
                                > against the wind as the boat goes), pinching means trying to steer even
                                > more upwind, for example in gusts, or when going down a wave... (you
                                > can't overdo it, because then the sails would fill on the wrong side
                                > and the boat stalls.... changing sails on one of these old boats took
                                > several hours and all the crew)... it slows the boat a bit, but you
                                > make it further upwind, which is useful in a race, or when trying to
                                > clear some land... no use on open sea..
                                >
                                > This calls for a bit of nautical wisdom.. never sailed with pirates, or
                                > one of those old ships, but luckily the sail-related terms changed very
                                > little since then:
                                >
                                > - Beating is the same as close-hauled, sailing against the wind,
                                > beating refers to the course (relative to wind), close-hauled to the
                                > position of the sails (hauled-in)
                                >
                                >
                                > So the sentence means..
                                >
                                > We're sailing against the wind, the ship sails very well in this
                                > course, I'll leave the sails to you (do whatever you want with them),
                                > but keep them hauled-in tight and don't pinch (the boat, see
                                > explanation above)..
                                >
                                > Now doing this in Czech is going to be difficult (if it's supposed to
                                > sound 16 Century pirate-like), some of these sailing terms do not
                                > exist, or are modern...
                                >
                                >
                                > beating would be 'krizovat proti vetru', or, in modern racing terms
                                > 'jet na stoupacku' (don't use that for pirates, though)
                                > close-hauled (sails) would be something like 'pritazene plachty'
                                > weatherly ship could be something like 'dobre vyvazena lod', alth' that
                                > suggests a sleek and light craft, not one of these big fat things the
                                > pirates had..
                                > pinching would be 'prestoupavat' - nut again, that's a modern racing
                                > term..
                                >
                                > Captain Matt Sparrow
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Weatherly â€" A ship that is easily sailed and maneuvered; makes little
                                > leeway when sailing to windward.
                                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------ Original Message ------
                                > From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
                                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: 29.3.2011 0:50:36
                                > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: terminology and unclear sentences
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Hana Jarolímová <jarolimo@> wrote:
                                > >The „Brethren of the
                                > >> Coast“ both in name and most certainly in number.“ â€" jde mi o
                                > >to
                                > >> pojmenování, nevím, jestli mi uniká nějaký dvojsmysl slova
                                > >Coast ve
                                > >> spojení s počtem...
                                > >
                                > >Tady nevidim zadny dvojsmysl. Pobrezni bratri jsou historicky zalozena
                                > >skupina piratu.
                                > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brethren_of_the_coast
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> 2. His accent was as far westbound as Devlin´s
                                > >
                                > >Valerie's explanation sounds good.
                                > >
                                > >Just add a few "Aaaa Jime, hochu" sounds for good measure.
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> 3. he was swagger and stagger; lucky, dirty soul â€" nejedná se o
                                > >nějaká
                                > >> ustálená spojení (idiomy nebo tak něco)?
                                > >
                                > >Speaks for itself really. Wouldn't look for anything figurative here.
                                > >Swagger and stagger seems to crop up quite a bit in nautical contexts.
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> 4. English coffee boy (Pirate: we don´t look like no English coffee
                                > >boys)
                                > >
                                > >My guess is that these chaps did not believe they looked like menial
                                > >delivery boys from the Home Counties. Pure speculation, you understand.
                                > >
                                > >>
                                > >> 5. „Beating upwind as we are and as weatherly as the ship is, the
                                > >sails
                                > >> are up to you. Close-hauled and no pinching.“
                                > >
                                > >Weatherly â€" A ship that is easily sailed and maneuvered; makes
                                > >little leeway when sailing to windward.
                                > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_nautical_terms
                                > >
                                > >Perhaps: because the ship is making good progress I am delegating the
                                > >sails to you. Make sure you have them hauled closely and do not let
                                > >them be pinched too tight.
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> 5. „The instrument (=backstaff) was longer than a musketoon, the
                                > >sun was
                                > >> to his back and he prayed for a shadow to fall in the horizon vane
                                > >
                                > >So this bit you know:
                                > >The backstaff or back-quadrant, is a navigational instrument that was
                                > >used to measure the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the
                                > >sun or moon. When observing the sun, users kept the sun to their back
                                > >(hence the name) and observed the shadow cast by the upper vane on a
                                > >horizon vane.
                                > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backstaff
                                > >
                                > >to
                                > >> qualify his stance upon the deck
                                > >
                                > >OK this is the awkward bit. Perhaps to give his position on deck a
                                > >numerical value or meaning of some kind????
                                > >
                                > >as the last crank of the capstain
                                > >> dragging up the anchor rang in his ears.“
                                > >
                                > >The capstan (note spelling) makes a loud noise the last time it is
                                > >cranked up.
                                > >
                                > >BR
                                > >
                                > >M.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5985
                                > >(20110325) __________
                                > >
                                > >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                > >
                                > >http://www.eset.cz/
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Melvyn
                                ... http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php/6950-Another-from-Charlotte Or this one: If it is important to get to windward as fast as possible, I will
                                Message 15 of 18 , Apr 1, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                                  > You don't pinch sails (unless I suppose you pinch them from someone),
                                  > you pinch a boat - when sailing close-hauled

                                  I am sure you are right. All the same, I wonder what this jolly Jack Tar had in mind:

                                  >suggested I call myself Captain Pinchy as I pinch the sails too much when sailing on a close haul.
                                  http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php/6950-Another-from-Charlotte

                                  Or this one:
                                  If it is important to get to windward as fast as possible, I will turn on one engine and pinch the sails extremely close to the wind.
                                  http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/how-close-47206.html

                                  :-) And here is a special dedication for Matej:
                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ7SVMVrick

                                  BR

                                  M.
                                • Matej Klimes
                                  Awwright then, I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch the boat - since the two are connected and steering the boat upwind turns the sails upwind
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Apr 1, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Awwright then, I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch
                                    the boat - since the two are connected and steering the boat upwind
                                    turns the sails upwind as well (and gets them flapping)... it wouldn't
                                    be much use just hauling in the sails tight and still steering the
                                    original course, or hauling the sails in too tight (to the point of
                                    pulling them across to start flapping) while steering true...

                                    What I'm trying to say is that pinching is done by steering, the sails
                                    are already pulled in tight for upwind and then you steer the boat into
                                    the 'dead angle' just a little bit when you have a chance, without
                                    doing anything to the sails and taking care not to get the boat turned
                                    by the wind...

                                    I guess the main problem with that translation is that the only pirate
                                    tradition we have in Czech literature is based on Vltava and involves
                                    Primator Dittrich, a paddle steamer ..

                                    M


                                    ------ Original Message ------
                                    From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
                                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: 1.4.2011 11:17:54
                                    Subject: [Czechlist] Re: terminology and unclear sentences
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                                    >> You don't pinch sails (unless I suppose you pinch them from
                                    >someone),
                                    >> you pinch a boat - when sailing close-hauled
                                    >
                                    >I am sure you are right. All the same, I wonder what this jolly Jack
                                    >Tar had in mind:
                                    >
                                    >>suggested I call myself Captain Pinchy as I pinch the sails too much
                                    >when sailing on a close haul.
                                    >http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php/6950-Another-from-Charlotte
                                    >
                                    >Or this one:
                                    >If it is important to get to windward as fast as possible, I will turn
                                    >on one engine and pinch the sails extremely close to the wind.
                                    >http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/how-close-47206.html
                                    >
                                    >:-) And here is a special dedication for Matej:
                                    >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ7SVMVrick
                                    >
                                    >BR
                                    >
                                    >M.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5999
                                    >(20110330) __________
                                    >
                                    >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                    >
                                    >http://www.eset.cz/


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Matej Klimes
                                    I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch .. that was you can SAY of course... M ... From: Matej Klimes To:
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Apr 1, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      'I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch ..'

                                      that was 'you can SAY' of course...

                                      M

                                      ------ Original Message ------
                                      From: "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
                                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: 1.4.2011 12:03:34
                                      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: terminology and unclear sentences
                                      > Awwright then, I suppose you can sail pinch the sails and mean pinch
                                      >the boat - since the two are connected and steering the boat upwind
                                      >turns the sails upwind as well (and gets them flapping)... it wouldn't
                                      >be much use just hauling in the sails tight and still steering the
                                      >original course, or hauling the sails in too tight (to the point of
                                      >pulling them across to start flapping) while steering true...
                                      >
                                      >What I'm trying to say is that pinching is done by steering, the sails
                                      >are already pulled in tight for upwind and then you steer the boat
                                      >into
                                      >the 'dead angle' just a little bit when you have a chance, without
                                      >doing anything to the sails and taking care not to get the boat turned
                                      >by the wind...
                                      >
                                      >I guess the main problem with that translation is that the only pirate
                                      >tradition we have in Czech literature is based on Vltava and involves
                                      >Primator Dittrich, a paddle steamer ..
                                      >
                                      >M
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >------ Original Message ------
                                      >From: "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...>
                                      >To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Sent: 1.4.2011 11:17:54
                                      >Subject: [Czechlist] Re: terminology and unclear sentences
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                                      >>> You don't pinch sails (unless I suppose you pinch them from
                                      >>someone),
                                      >>> you pinch a boat - when sailing close-hauled
                                      >>
                                      >>I am sure you are right. All the same, I wonder what this jolly Jack
                                      >>Tar had in mind:
                                      >>
                                      >>>suggested I call myself Captain Pinchy as I pinch the sails too much
                                      >>when sailing on a close haul.
                                      >>http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php/6950-Another-from-Charlotte
                                      >>
                                      >>Or this one:
                                      >>If it is important to get to windward as fast as possible, I will
                                      >turn
                                      >>on one engine and pinch the sails extremely close to the wind.
                                      >>http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/how-close-47206.html
                                      >>
                                      >>:-) And here is a special dedication for Matej:
                                      >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ7SVMVrick
                                      >>
                                      >>BR
                                      >>
                                      >>M.
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5999
                                      >>(20110330) __________
                                      >>
                                      >>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                      >>
                                      >>http://www.eset.cz/
                                      >
                                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5999
                                      >(20110330) __________
                                      >
                                      >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
                                      >
                                      >http://www.eset.cz/


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Melvyn
                                      ... Perhaps a little judicious use of vodacky slang to render pirate talk might be considered a humorous touch. http://www.lavdis.cz/index.php?pg=222&ln=cz And
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Apr 1, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                                        >

                                        > I guess the main problem with that translation is that the only pirate
                                        > tradition we have in Czech literature is based on Vltava and involves
                                        > Primator Dittrich, a paddle steamer ..

                                        Perhaps a little judicious use of vodacky slang to render pirate talk might be considered a humorous touch.

                                        http://www.lavdis.cz/index.php?pg=222&ln=cz

                                        And Hana, tell your friend that if she joins Czechlist she gets a substantial discount on our pirate talk lessons:

                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cKCkbWDGwE


                                        BR

                                        M.
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