Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Papir snese vsechno

Expand Messages
  • Pavel Trusina
    Thanks everybody! From the very first moment, my feelings was that there would be no such equivalent in English. Languages reflect history and present time of
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks everybody!

      From the very first moment, my feelings was that there would be no such
      equivalent in English.

      Languages reflect history and present time of nations. As native usesr of
      English did not have 50 years of totalitarian regimes in their recent
      history unlike those of Czech, there is no supprise that English does not
      have such a phrase.

      P.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
      To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 2:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Papir snese vsechno


      > None of the expressions are anything that we would actually say in
      > English, and they appear to be attempts by someone or other to force an
      > equivalent. There is no equivalent proverb in natural English, and the
      > attempts on those web pages are quite strange sounding.
      >
      > In situations like the one Pavel gave as an example, we would simply say,
      > "You can put anything on paper."
      >
      > Again, there is no equivalent proverb that is ordinarily used, and the
      > ones given on those web pages are quite unnatural. I would discourage you
      > from using them if you want your English to sound good.
      >
      > Jamie
      >
      > On Jan 12, 2011, at 8:05 AM, Pavel wrote:
      >
      >> Take a look here for some inspiration:
      >> http://www.wikiproverbs.com/index.php/Epistula_non_erubescit.
      >>
      >> There has also been a discussion at ProZ:
      >> http://ces.proz.com/kudoz/czech_to_english/other/3171452-pap%C3%ADr_snese_v%C5%A1echno.html
      >>
      >> P.
      >>
      >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Pavel Trusina" <pt@...> wrote:
      >> >
      >> > Dear colleagues - English native speakers,
      >> >
      >> > I would like to ask whether there is a phrase in English which has the
      >> > same or at least similar meaning as that in Czech. Just a little
      >> > explanation for younger generation: the Czech phrase "papir snese
      >> > vsechno" was used quite often in our country mainly in the past regime
      >> > to express the fact that paper did not "oppose" and "passively
      >> > withstood" lies which were printed on it (in newspapers, textbooks,
      >> > etc.) and presented by the "leading party" as the "official truth".
      >> >
      >> > Just a typical example: when I was a schoolboy and my father read my
      >> > history textbook, he said with an expression of disgust in his face:
      >> > "Papir snese vsechno."
      >> >
      >> > Thank you very much in advance.
      >> >
      >> > P.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > __________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5780
      >> > (20110112) __________
      >> >
      >> > Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
      >> >
      >> > http://www.eset.cz
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >> >
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5780
      > (20110112) __________
      >
      > Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
      >
      > http://www.eset.cz
      >
      >
      >


      __________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5780 (20110112) __________

      Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.

      http://www.eset.cz
    • Milos Prudek
      ... Totalarian or non-totaliarian, papers exonerating the perpetrators of the My Lai massacre did not blush, either. Democracy and lies on paper mix quite
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        On 12.1.2011 14:28, Pavel Trusina wrote:
        > As native usesr of
        > English did not have 50 years of totalitarian regimes

        Totalarian or non-totaliarian, papers exonerating the perpetrators of
        the My Lai massacre did not blush, either.

        Democracy and lies on paper mix quite well.

        --
        Milos
      • James Kirchner
        Another example is the recent claims from the left that the former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin caused a paranoid schizophrenic to go on a shooting
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Another example is the recent claims from the left that the former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin caused a paranoid schizophrenic to go on a shooting rampage.

          The problem is that we never had any proverb regarding this kind of thing, regardless of what your opinion was on some event or other.

          A further problem with using a proverb of this type in English is that people who did not grow up under totalitarian regimes will not associate it just with proclamations from the authorities, but also with preposterous advertising claims and all kinds of lies from any source whatsoever.

          However, another reason for our not having such a proverb is that we don't have the degree of cynicism about what appears in print that people from totalitarian regimes do. If one paper carries lies, another paper refutes those lies, and so we don't have the type of attitude that would make such a proverb useful.

          Jamie

          On Jan 12, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Milos Prudek wrote:

          > On 12.1.2011 14:28, Pavel Trusina wrote:
          >> As native usesr of
          >> English did not have 50 years of totalitarian regimes
          >
          > Totalarian or non-totaliarian, papers exonerating the perpetrators of
          > the My Lai massacre did not blush, either.
          >
          > Democracy and lies on paper mix quite well.
          >
          > --
          > Milos
        • Pavel Trusina
          Thanks very much for this explanation which exctly says why such a phrase does not exist in English. P. ... From: James Kirchner To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks very much for this explanation which exctly says why such a phrase does not exist in English.
            P.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: James Kirchner
            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:47 PM
            Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Papir snese vsechno



            Another example is the recent claims from the left that the former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin caused a paranoid schizophrenic to go on a shooting rampage.

            The problem is that we never had any proverb regarding this kind of thing, regardless of what your opinion was on some event or other.

            A further problem with using a proverb of this type in English is that people who did not grow up under totalitarian regimes will not associate it just with proclamations from the authorities, but also with preposterous advertising claims and all kinds of lies from any source whatsoever.

            However, another reason for our not having such a proverb is that we don't have the degree of cynicism about what appears in print that people from totalitarian regimes do. If one paper carries lies, another paper refutes those lies, and so we don't have the type of attitude that would make such a proverb useful.

            Jamie

            On Jan 12, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Milos Prudek wrote:

            > On 12.1.2011 14:28, Pavel Trusina wrote:
            >> As native usesr of
            >> English did not have 50 years of totalitarian regimes
            >
            > Totalarian or non-totaliarian, papers exonerating the perpetrators of
            > the My Lai massacre did not blush, either.
            >
            > Democracy and lies on paper mix quite well.
            >
            > --
            > Milos





            __________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5781 (20110112) __________

            Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.

            http://www.eset.cz



            __________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5781 (20110112) __________

            Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.

            http://www.eset.cz



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • MailingLists - Helga
            I did not read the whole string, and maybe my English isn´t good enough to catch the intended meaning of Jamie´s comment, BUT the phrase Papir snese vsechno
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              I did not read the whole string, and maybe my English isn´t good enough to
              catch the intended meaning of Jamie´s comment, BUT



              the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German – Papier ist
              geduldig - and neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
              totalitarian regimes. So I am not really convinced about the background of
              the phrase as Jamie explainede it.



              My 2 (euro)cents

              Helga



              _____

              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of Pavel Trusina
              Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 15:51



              Thanks very much for this explanation which exctly says why such a phrase
              does not exist in English.
              P.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: James Kirchner
              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:47 PM
              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Papir snese vsechno

              Another example is the recent claims from the left that the former vice
              presidential candidate Sarah Palin caused a paranoid schizophrenic to go on
              a shooting rampage.

              The problem is that we never had any proverb regarding this kind of thing,
              regardless of what your opinion was on some event or other.

              A further problem with using a proverb of this type in English is that
              people who did not grow up under totalitarian regimes will not associate it
              just with proclamations from the authorities, but also with preposterous
              advertising claims and all kinds of lies from any source whatsoever.

              However, another reason for our not having such a proverb is that we don't
              have the degree of cynicism about what appears in print that people from
              totalitarian regimes do. If one paper carries lies, another paper refutes
              those lies, and so we don't have the type of attitude that would make such a
              proverb useful.

              Jamie

              On Jan 12, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Milos Prudek wrote:

              > On 12.1.2011 14:28, Pavel Trusina wrote:
              >> As native usesr of
              >> English did not have 50 years of totalitarian regimes
              >
              > Totalarian or non-totaliarian, papers exonerating the perpetrators of
              > the My Lai massacre did not blush, either.
              >
              > Democracy and lies on paper mix quite well.
              >
              > --





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Pavel Trusina
              Thanks once more Jamie for this explanation which also precisely expresses one difference: Totalitarian regimes force not only paper but also people to snest
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks once more Jamie for this explanation which also precisely expresses one difference:

                Totalitarian regimes force not only paper but also people to "snest vsechno".

                Democratic systems sometimes force only paper. People have the freedom to refuse.

                P.



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: James Kirchner
                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:47 PM
                Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Papir snese vsechno



                Another example is the recent claims from the left that the former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin caused a paranoid schizophrenic to go on a shooting rampage.

                The problem is that we never had any proverb regarding this kind of thing, regardless of what your opinion was on some event or other.

                A further problem with using a proverb of this type in English is that people who did not grow up under totalitarian regimes will not associate it just with proclamations from the authorities, but also with preposterous advertising claims and all kinds of lies from any source whatsoever.

                However, another reason for our not having such a proverb is that we don't have the degree of cynicism about what appears in print that people from totalitarian regimes do. If one paper carries lies, another paper refutes those lies, and so we don't have the type of attitude that would make such a proverb useful.

                Jamie

                On Jan 12, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Milos Prudek wrote:

                > On 12.1.2011 14:28, Pavel Trusina wrote:
                >> As native usesr of
                >> English did not have 50 years of totalitarian regimes
                >
                > Totalarian or non-totaliarian, papers exonerating the perpetrators of
                > the My Lai massacre did not blush, either.
                >
                > Democracy and lies on paper mix quite well.
                >
                > --
                > Milos





                __________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5781 (20110112) __________

                Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.

                http://www.eset.cz



                __________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 5781 (20110112) __________

                Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.

                http://www.eset.cz



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • James Kirchner
                In that case, we re just dealing with a proverb that is used in Europe but not in English, for whatever reason. That s not unusual. However, I don t doubt
                Message 7 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  In that case, we're just dealing with a proverb that is used in Europe but not in English, for whatever reason. That's not unusual.

                  However, I don't doubt that a German or Austrian would have a somewhat different understanding or underlying thought when using that proverb than an older Czech would.

                  Jamie

                  On Jan 12, 2011, at 10:00 AM, MailingLists - Helga wrote:

                  > I did not read the whole string, and maybe my English isn�t good enough to
                  > catch the intended meaning of Jamie�s comment, BUT
                  >
                  > the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German � Papier ist
                  > geduldig - and neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                  > totalitarian regimes. So I am not really convinced about the background of
                  > the phrase as Jamie explainede it.
                  >
                  > My 2 (euro)cents
                  >
                  > Helga
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  > Of Pavel Trusina
                  > Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 15:51
                  >
                  > Thanks very much for this explanation which exctly says why such a phrase
                  > does not exist in English.
                  > P.
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: James Kirchner
                  > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:47 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Papir snese vsechno
                  >
                  > Another example is the recent claims from the left that the former vice
                  > presidential candidate Sarah Palin caused a paranoid schizophrenic to go on
                  > a shooting rampage.
                  >
                  > The problem is that we never had any proverb regarding this kind of thing,
                  > regardless of what your opinion was on some event or other.
                  >
                  > A further problem with using a proverb of this type in English is that
                  > people who did not grow up under totalitarian regimes will not associate it
                  > just with proclamations from the authorities, but also with preposterous
                  > advertising claims and all kinds of lies from any source whatsoever.
                  >
                  > However, another reason for our not having such a proverb is that we don't
                  > have the degree of cynicism about what appears in print that people from
                  > totalitarian regimes do. If one paper carries lies, another paper refutes
                  > those lies, and so we don't have the type of attitude that would make such a
                  > proverb useful.
                  >
                  > Jamie
                  >
                  > On Jan 12, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Milos Prudek wrote:
                  >
                  > > On 12.1.2011 14:28, Pavel Trusina wrote:
                  > >> As native usesr of
                  > >> English did not have 50 years of totalitarian regimes
                  > >
                  > > Totalarian or non-totaliarian, papers exonerating the perpetrators of
                  > > the My Lai massacre did not blush, either.
                  > >
                  > > Democracy and lies on paper mix quite well.
                  > >
                  > > --
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Martin Janda
                  On the top of that, we ve just heard about a well-established equivalent in Latin. And though you might call some periods of the Roman Empire totalitarian, I
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On the top of that, we've just heard about a well-established
                    equivalent in Latin. And though you might call some periods of the Roman
                    Empire totalitarian, I don't think it's exactly the same as 20th century
                    commies.

                    Martin



                    Dne 12.1.2011 16:00, MailingLists - Helga napsal(a):
                    > I did not read the whole string, and maybe my English isn´t good enough to
                    > catch the intended meaning of Jamie´s comment, BUT
                    >
                    > the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German – Papier ist
                    > geduldig - and neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                    > totalitarian regimes. So I am not really convinced about the background of
                    > the phrase as Jamie explainede it.
                    >
                    > My 2 (euro)cents
                    >
                    > Helga
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>]
                    > On Behalf
                    > Of Pavel Trusina
                    > Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 15:51
                    >
                    > Thanks very much for this explanation which exctly says why such a phrase
                    > does not exist in English.
                    > P.
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: James Kirchner
                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:47 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Papir snese vsechno
                    >
                    > Another example is the recent claims from the left that the former vice
                    > presidential candidate Sarah Palin caused a paranoid schizophrenic to go on
                    > a shooting rampage.
                    >
                    > The problem is that we never had any proverb regarding this kind of thing,
                    > regardless of what your opinion was on some event or other.
                    >
                    > A further problem with using a proverb of this type in English is that
                    > people who did not grow up under totalitarian regimes will not associate it
                    > just with proclamations from the authorities, but also with preposterous
                    > advertising claims and all kinds of lies from any source whatsoever.
                    >
                    > However, another reason for our not having such a proverb is that we don't
                    > have the degree of cynicism about what appears in print that people from
                    > totalitarian regimes do. If one paper carries lies, another paper refutes
                    > those lies, and so we don't have the type of attitude that would make such a
                    > proverb useful.
                    >
                    > Jamie
                    >
                    > On Jan 12, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Milos Prudek wrote:
                    >
                    > > On 12.1.2011 14:28, Pavel Trusina wrote:
                    > >> As native usesr of
                    > >> English did not have 50 years of totalitarian regimes
                    > >
                    > > Totalarian or non-totaliarian, papers exonerating the perpetrators of
                    > > the My Lai massacre did not blush, either.
                    > >
                    > > Democracy and lies on paper mix quite well.
                    > >
                    > > --
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • Melvyn
                    ... That s handy to know: Papier ist geduldig - Paper doesn t blush. http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Papier+ist+geduldig.html ... Are you quite sure about
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > Dne 12.1.2011 16:00, MailingLists - Helga napsal(a):

                      > >
                      > > the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German – Papier ist
                      > > geduldig -

                      That's handy to know:

                      Papier ist geduldig - Paper doesn't blush.

                      http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Papier+ist+geduldig.html


                      >neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                      > > totalitarian regimes.

                      Are you quite sure about that?

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

                      BR

                      M.
                    • MailingLists - Helga
                      Ok, Melvyn, there was a short period, still we were „only“ annexed,... and, taken literally, any country having seen a king or cecarian, would fall under
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ok, Melvyn, there was a short period, still we were „only“ annexed,... and,
                        taken literally, any country having seen a king or cecarian, would fall
                        under this definition.



                        Still, I don´t think the phrase in question has a close relationship to
                        totalitarian regimes. It´s rather a „common fact“ that something need not be
                        true, just because it is written down somewhere.



                        Helga



                        _____

                        From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of Melvyn
                        Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 17:08


                        > Dne 12.1.2011 16:00, MailingLists - Helga napsal(a):

                        > >
                        > > the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German – Papier ist
                        > > geduldig -

                        That's handy to know:

                        Papier ist geduldig - Paper doesn't blush.

                        http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Papier+ist+geduldig.html

                        >neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                        > > totalitarian regimes.

                        Are you quite sure about that?

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

                        BR

                        M.





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Simon
                        Sorry to take this thread further off-topic, but the period of Nazi rule in Germany and elsewhere was most definitely totalitarianism of the worst kind. And
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Sorry to take this thread further off-topic, but the period of Nazi rule in Germany and elsewhere was most definitely totalitarianism of the worst kind. And let's not forget that a large part of Germany was under communist totalitarian rule for decades as well.

                          Simon

                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "MailingLists - Helga" <listen@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Ok, Melvyn, there was a short period, still we were „only" annexed,... and,
                          > taken literally, any country having seen a king or cecarian, would fall
                          > under this definition.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Still, I don´t think the phrase in question has a close relationship to
                          > totalitarian regimes. It´s rather a „common fact" that something need not be
                          > true, just because it is written down somewhere.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Helga
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          > Of Melvyn
                          > Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 17:08
                          >
                          >
                          > > Dne 12.1.2011 16:00, MailingLists - Helga napsal(a):
                          >
                          > > >
                          > > > the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German – Papier ist
                          > > > geduldig -
                          >
                          > That's handy to know:
                          >
                          > Papier ist geduldig - Paper doesn't blush.
                          >
                          > http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Papier+ist+geduldig.html
                          >
                          > >neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                          > > > totalitarian regimes.
                          >
                          > Are you quite sure about that?
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
                          >
                          > BR
                          >
                          > M.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • James Kirchner
                          There was a reference to Cicero s statement, but he lived under a Roman dictatorship and tried to work for a return to republican government. So there you
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            There was a reference to Cicero's statement, but he lived under a Roman dictatorship and tried to work for a return to republican government. So there you have another example of the expression being used under a dictatorial regime.

                            It has also been a long time since Britain has had a monarchical regime that you could really call a dictatorship or totalitarian.

                            By the way, while we have found the expression, "Paper doesn't blush," and it sounds nice, it's not really fitting, because to my anglophone ears it appears to imply obscenity more than preposterous statements by the authorities.

                            Jamie

                            On Jan 12, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Simon wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > Sorry to take this thread further off-topic, but the period of Nazi rule in Germany and elsewhere was most definitely totalitarianism of the worst kind. And let's not forget that a large part of Germany was under communist totalitarian rule for decades as well.
                            >
                            > Simon
                            >
                            > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "MailingLists - Helga" <listen@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Ok, Melvyn, there was a short period, still we were �only" annexed,... and,
                            > > taken literally, any country having seen a king or cecarian, would fall
                            > > under this definition.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Still, I don�t think the phrase in question has a close relationship to
                            > > totalitarian regimes. It�s rather a �common fact" that something need not be
                            > > true, just because it is written down somewhere.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Helga
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > _____
                            > >
                            > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            > > Of Melvyn
                            > > Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 17:08
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > Dne 12.1.2011 16:00, MailingLists - Helga napsal(a):
                            > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German � Papier ist
                            > > > > geduldig -
                            > >
                            > > That's handy to know:
                            > >
                            > > Papier ist geduldig - Paper doesn't blush.
                            > >
                            > > http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Papier+ist+geduldig.html
                            > >
                            > > >neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                            > > > > totalitarian regimes.
                            > >
                            > > Are you quite sure about that?
                            > >
                            > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
                            > >
                            > > BR
                            > >
                            > > M.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Charlie Stanford Translations
                            Not sure that paper does not blush has much to do with obscenity Jamie, I always assumed that it meant blush with shame at what it was saying. ... From:
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Not sure that "paper does not blush" has much to do with obscenity Jamie, I
                              always assumed that it meant blush with shame at what it was saying.


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
                              To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:54 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Papir snese vsechno


                              There was a reference to Cicero's statement, but he lived under a Roman
                              dictatorship and tried to work for a return to republican government. So
                              there you have another example of the expression being used under a
                              dictatorial regime.

                              It has also been a long time since Britain has had a monarchical regime that
                              you could really call a dictatorship or totalitarian.

                              By the way, while we have found the expression, "Paper doesn't blush," and
                              it sounds nice, it's not really fitting, because to my anglophone ears it
                              appears to imply obscenity more than preposterous statements by the
                              authorities.

                              Jamie

                              On Jan 12, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Simon wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > Sorry to take this thread further off-topic, but the period of Nazi rule
                              > in Germany and elsewhere was most definitely totalitarianism of the worst
                              > kind. And let's not forget that a large part of Germany was under
                              > communist totalitarian rule for decades as well.
                              >
                              > Simon
                              >
                              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "MailingLists - Helga" <listen@...>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Ok, Melvyn, there was a short period, still we were „only" annexed,...
                              > > and,
                              > > taken literally, any country having seen a king or cecarian, would fall
                              > > under this definition.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Still, I don´t think the phrase in question has a close relationship to
                              > > totalitarian regimes. It´s rather a „common fact" that something need
                              > > not be
                              > > true, just because it is written down somewhere.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Helga
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > _____
                              > >
                              > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On
                              > > Behalf
                              > > Of Melvyn
                              > > Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 17:08
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > Dne 12.1.2011 16:00, MailingLists - Helga napsal(a):
                              > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German – Papier
                              > > > > ist
                              > > > > geduldig -
                              > >
                              > > That's handy to know:
                              > >
                              > > Papier ist geduldig - Paper doesn't blush.
                              > >
                              > > http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Papier+ist+geduldig.html
                              > >
                              > > >neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                              > > > > totalitarian regimes.
                              > >
                              > > Are you quite sure about that?
                              > >
                              > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
                              > >
                              > > BR
                              > >
                              > > M.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------






                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • James Kirchner
                              We don t usually think of blushing as something that liars do, but mainly at what people do when presented with obscenity or some form of embarrassing
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                We don't usually think of blushing as something that liars do, but mainly at what people do when presented with obscenity or some form of embarrassing entertainment. We tend not to blush when people lie, but to confront them.

                                This could be a cultural difference, since a lot of Americans don't understand some humor on British TV, because it involves people trying to be polite and restrained in situations where we would never think to. So maybe the British are more likely to blush at a lie than we are.

                                JK

                                On Jan 12, 2011, at 12:31 PM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:

                                > Not sure that "paper does not blush" has much to do with obscenity Jamie, I
                                > always assumed that it meant blush with shame at what it was saying.
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
                                > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:54 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Papir snese vsechno
                                >
                                >
                                > There was a reference to Cicero's statement, but he lived under a Roman
                                > dictatorship and tried to work for a return to republican government. So
                                > there you have another example of the expression being used under a
                                > dictatorial regime.
                                >
                                > It has also been a long time since Britain has had a monarchical regime that
                                > you could really call a dictatorship or totalitarian.
                                >
                                > By the way, while we have found the expression, "Paper doesn't blush," and
                                > it sounds nice, it's not really fitting, because to my anglophone ears it
                                > appears to imply obscenity more than preposterous statements by the
                                > authorities.
                                >
                                > Jamie
                                >
                                > On Jan 12, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Simon wrote:
                                >
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> Sorry to take this thread further off-topic, but the period of Nazi rule
                                >> in Germany and elsewhere was most definitely totalitarianism of the worst
                                >> kind. And let's not forget that a large part of Germany was under
                                >> communist totalitarian rule for decades as well.
                                >>
                                >> Simon
                                >>
                                >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "MailingLists - Helga" <listen@...>
                                >> wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>> Ok, Melvyn, there was a short period, still we were „only" annexed,...
                                >>> and,
                                >>> taken literally, any country having seen a king or cecarian, would fall
                                >>> under this definition.
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> Still, I don´t think the phrase in question has a close relationship to
                                >>> totalitarian regimes. It´s rather a „common fact" that something need
                                >>> not be
                                >>> true, just because it is written down somewhere.
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> Helga
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> _____
                                >>>
                                >>> From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On
                                >>> Behalf
                                >>> Of Melvyn
                                >>> Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 17:08
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>> Dne 12.1.2011 16:00, MailingLists - Helga napsal(a):
                                >>>
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German – Papier
                                >>>>> ist
                                >>>>> geduldig -
                                >>>
                                >>> That's handy to know:
                                >>>
                                >>> Papier ist geduldig - Paper doesn't blush.
                                >>>
                                >>> http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Papier+ist+geduldig.html
                                >>>
                                >>>> neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                                >>>>> totalitarian regimes.
                                >>>
                                >>> Are you quite sure about that?
                                >>>
                                >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
                                >>>
                                >>> BR
                                >>>
                                >>> M.
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Melvyn
                                ... Seems to me the generally recognizable idea behind it is simply that we palefaces sometimes blush when we tell lies. Have you never felt your cheeks
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <jpklists@...> wrote:

                                  > By the way, while we have found the expression, "Paper doesn't blush," and it sounds nice, it's not really fitting, because to my anglophone ears it appears to imply obscenity more than preposterous statements by the authorities.


                                  Seems to me the generally recognizable idea behind it is simply that we palefaces sometimes blush when we tell lies. Have you never felt your cheeks burning when you told little porkies (Cockney rhyming slang: pork pies = lies) or does your nose just feel like it's getting longer?

                                  True, I'd never heard the expression until today, but I intend to use it now in phrases like "oh, if only paper could blush, this Daily **** would be bright crimson" or "someone ought to invent paper that blushes and goes ooh". Probably only a matter of time anyway.

                                  BR

                                  M.


                                  >
                                  > Jamie
                                  >
                                  > On Jan 12, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Simon wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Sorry to take this thread further off-topic, but the period of Nazi rule in Germany and elsewhere was most definitely totalitarianism of the worst kind. And let's not forget that a large part of Germany was under communist totalitarian rule for decades as well.
                                  > >
                                  > > Simon
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "MailingLists - Helga" <listen@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Ok, Melvyn, there was a short period, still we were „only" annexed,... and,
                                  > > > taken literally, any country having seen a king or cecarian, would fall
                                  > > > under this definition.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Still, I don´t think the phrase in question has a close relationship to
                                  > > > totalitarian regimes. It´s rather a „common fact" that something need not be
                                  > > > true, just because it is written down somewhere.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Helga
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > _____
                                  > > >
                                  > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  > > > Of Melvyn
                                  > > > Sent: Mittwoch, 12. Januar 2011 17:08
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > Dne 12.1.2011 16:00, MailingLists - Helga napsal(a):
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German – Papier ist
                                  > > > > > geduldig -
                                  > > >
                                  > > > That's handy to know:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Papier ist geduldig - Paper doesn't blush.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Papier+ist+geduldig.html
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                                  > > > > > totalitarian regimes.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Are you quite sure about that?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
                                  > > >
                                  > > > BR
                                  > > >
                                  > > > M.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Melvyn
                                  ... Oh THAT. And then what about Baron Alexander von Bach and his Bach system? Was that totalitarianism or just authoritarianism? It all gets so confusing. BR
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jan 12, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "MailingLists - Helga" <listen@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Ok, Melvyn, there was a short period,

                                    Oh THAT.

                                    And then what about Baron Alexander von Bach and his Bach system? Was that totalitarianism or just authoritarianism? It all gets so confusing.

                                    BR

                                    M.
                                  • Jan Culka
                                    Good question, Melvyn! (Helga is too young to remember ....) Honza ... From: Melvyn To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:08 PM
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jan 13, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Good question, Melvyn!
                                      (Helga is too young to remember ....)
                                      Honza



                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Melvyn
                                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:08 PM
                                      Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Papir snese vsechno





                                      > Dne 12.1.2011 16:00, MailingLists - Helga napsal(a):

                                      > >
                                      > > the phrase Papir snese vsechno is very well know in German - Papier ist
                                      > > geduldig -

                                      That's handy to know:

                                      Papier ist geduldig - Paper doesn't blush.

                                      http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Papier+ist+geduldig.html

                                      >neither Austria nor Germany have ever been under
                                      > > totalitarian regimes.

                                      Are you quite sure about that?

                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

                                      BR

                                      M.





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.