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Doc. JUDr. and JUDr. Dr.

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  • James Kirchner
    I ve got the letterhead of a private law firm here, and of course it s larded with many, many titles that would not appear with American lawyers names, even
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 31, 2010
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      I've got the letterhead of a private law firm here, and of course it's larded with many, many titles that would not appear with American lawyers' names, even if they had many different degrees.

      What I've got here looks like this:

      "Doc. JUDr. Jan Podvodník CSc. & JUDr. Lenka Podvodníková, Dr."

      It looks to me like a sign I used to see in front of a building that said:

      "Lewis Business College and Lewis College of Business"

      So what is the difference between being a "Doc. JUDr." and a "JUDr. Dr."?

      Since the guy's already a Dr. due to the JUDr. degree, I don't see why he'd call himself "Dr. Dr. Podvodník" unless he stutters. You only call yourself Dr. once in the States, if at all.

      Would the equivalent be:

      "John Conman, JD"

      or

      "John Conman, JD, PhD"

      or neither of these?

      I could really use help with this, if anyone can provide it.

      Thank you.

      Sincerely,

      akad. mal. James Kirchner, mgr. jazykovedy
    • Michael Grant
      Not sure there s any one right way to handle this, but in a letterhead I d probably just leave it unchanged. I definitely wouldn t translate the titles
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 31, 2010
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        Not sure there's any one "right" way to handle this, but in a
        letterhead I'd probably just leave it unchanged. I definitely wouldn't
        "translate" the titles into any supposed American equivalent, since
        they're not really the same thing.

        Michael


        On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 11:40 AM, James Kirchner <jpklists@...> wrote:
        > I've got the letterhead of a private law firm here, and of course it's larded with many, many titles that would not appear with American lawyers' names, even if they had many different degrees.
        >
        > What I've got here looks like this:
        >
        > "Doc. JUDr. Jan Podvodník CSc. & JUDr. Lenka Podvodníková, Dr."
        >
        > It looks to me like a sign I used to see in front of a building that said:
        >
        > "Lewis Business College and Lewis College of Business"
        >
        > So what is the difference between being a "Doc. JUDr." and a "JUDr. Dr."?
        >
        > Since the guy's already a Dr. due to the JUDr. degree, I don't see why he'd call himself "Dr. Dr. Podvodník" unless he stutters.  You only call yourself Dr. once in the States, if at all.
        >
        > Would the equivalent be:
        >
        > "John Conman, JD"
        >
        > or
        >
        > "John Conman, JD, PhD"
        >
        > or neither of these?
        >
        > I could really use help with this, if anyone can provide it.
        >
        > Thank you.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        >
        > akad. mal. James Kirchner, mgr. jazykovedy
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >



        --
        There's really no such thing as translating. It's all a scam. We
        basically just make stuff up and try to make it sound plausible.
      • Romana
        Dear James, This lawyer has obviously acquired two doctorates; he has done two different courses of studies, or additional postgraduate studies in the same
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 31, 2010
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          Dear James,



          This lawyer has obviously acquired two doctorates; he has done two different
          courses of studies, or additional postgraduate studies in the same field,
          and written and defended two theses. Therefore he is entitled, and deserves,
          to use two doctor titles.

          “Doc” is would interpret as “docent” not as “doctor”.

          As for the rest, I agree with Michael that such titles should not be
          translated, as they are not equivalent to the English/American ones. Rather,
          they constitute part of the proper name of a person (in this case obviously
          a person who helps other people with legal matters and could very well be a
          highly ethical and love-worthy philanthropist - with which I am saying that
          I consider the nickname you gave to this lawyer, without knowing him or her
          personally, as highly inappropriate).

          Hope that helps.



          Regards,

          Romana







          From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of James Kirchner
          Sent: Sunday, 1 August 2010 2:10 AM
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Czechlist] Doc. JUDr. and JUDr. Dr.





          I've got the letterhead of a private law firm here, and of course it's
          larded with many, many titles that would not appear with American lawyers'
          names, even if they had many different degrees.

          What I've got here looks like this:

          "Doc. JUDr. Jan Podvodník CSc. & JUDr. Lenka Podvodníková, Dr."

          It looks to me like a sign I used to see in front of a building that said:

          "Lewis Business College and Lewis College of Business"

          So what is the difference between being a "Doc. JUDr." and a "JUDr. Dr."?

          Since the guy's already a Dr. due to the JUDr. degree, I don't see why he'd
          call himself "Dr. Dr. Podvodník" unless he stutters. You only call yourself
          Dr. once in the States, if at all.

          Would the equivalent be:

          "John Conman, JD"

          or

          "John Conman, JD, PhD"

          or neither of these?

          I could really use help with this, if anyone can provide it.

          Thank you.

          Sincerely,

          akad. mal. James Kirchner, mgr. jazykovedy





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Kirchner
          I was not giving that lawyer a nickname or calling him a podvodnik, Romana. I simply made up a completely fictitious first and last name so that I wouldn t
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 31, 2010
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            I was not giving that lawyer a "nickname" or calling him a podvodnik, Romana. I simply made up a completely fictitious first and last name so that I wouldn't reveal the identity at all.

            You may have noticed on the list before that I also do this with corporate names, such as the fictitious bank I often use as an example: "Podvodni banka".

            Jamie

            On Jul 31, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Romana wrote:

            > with which I am saying that
            > I consider the nickname you gave to this lawyer, without knowing him or her
            > personally, as highly inappropriate).



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James Kirchner
            So in a meeting would you address him as pane doktore doktore Novaku ? JK ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 31, 2010
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              So in a meeting would you address him as "pane doktore doktore Novaku"?

              JK

              On Jul 31, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Romana wrote:

              > Therefore he is entitled, and deserves,
              > to use two doctor titles.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • James Kirchner
              Some aren t the same thing, and some of them are close enough equivalents. One of the problems I ve had is that in the case of titles that don t exist at all
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 31, 2010
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                Some aren't the same thing, and some of them are close enough equivalents.

                One of the problems I've had is that in the case of titles that don't exist at all in English, and that are abbreviated, the English-speaking user won't perceive them as titles and is liable to assume they're abbreviations of people's first names. So they think everybody in the Czech Republic is named some equivalent of Ignatz or Inga. I've also had people just ask me what "Ing." meant without the slightest notion that it might be a title.

                Thank you for your advice, Michael.

                Jamie

                On Jul 31, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Michael Grant wrote:

                > I definitely wouldn't
                > "translate" the titles into any supposed American equivalent, since
                > they're not really the same thing.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Michael Grant
                I think I used to have an account with them when I was in Prague.... Michael ... -- There s really no such thing as translating. It s all a scam. We basically
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 31, 2010
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                  I think I used to have an account with them when I was in Prague....
                  Michael


                  On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 8:50 PM, James Kirchner <jpklists@...> wrote:
                  > I was not giving that lawyer a "nickname" or calling him a podvodnik, Romana.  I simply made up a completely fictitious first and last name so that I wouldn't reveal the identity at all.
                  >
                  > You may have noticed on the list before that I also do this with corporate names, such as the fictitious bank I often use as an example:  "Podvodni banka".
                  >
                  > Jamie
                  >
                  > On Jul 31, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Romana wrote:
                  >
                  >> with which I am saying that
                  >> I consider the nickname you gave to this lawyer, without knowing him or her
                  >> personally, as highly inappropriate).
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  There's really no such thing as translating. It's all a scam. We
                  basically just make stuff up and try to make it sound plausible.
                • Michael Grant
                  Well, I d have to disagree that any of them are close enough , but I guess it comes down to personal preference. I might simply omit something like Ing. in
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 31, 2010
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                    Well, I'd have to disagree that any of them are "close enough", but I
                    guess it comes down to personal preference. I might simply omit
                    something like Ing. in flowing text, but I'd definitely leave it in a
                    letterhead.

                    Michael


                    On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 9:07 PM, James Kirchner <jpklists@...> wrote:
                    > Some aren't the same thing, and some of them are close enough equivalents.
                    >
                    > One of the problems I've had is that in the case of titles that don't exist at all in English, and that are abbreviated, the English-speaking user won't perceive them as titles and is liable to assume they're abbreviations of people's first names.  So they think everybody in the Czech Republic is named some equivalent of Ignatz or Inga.  I've also had people just ask me what "Ing." meant without the slightest notion that it might be a title.
                    >
                    > Thank you for your advice, Michael.
                    >
                    > Jamie
                    >
                    > On Jul 31, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Michael Grant wrote:
                    >
                    >> I definitely wouldn't
                    >> "translate" the titles into any supposed American equivalent, since
                    >> they're not really the same thing.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    There's really no such thing as translating. It's all a scam. We
                    basically just make stuff up and try to make it sound plausible.
                  • James Kirchner
                    Then it looks like we re more or less on the same page. JK ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 31, 2010
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                      Then it looks like we're more or less on the same page.

                      JK

                      On Jul 31, 2010, at 11:04 PM, Michael Grant wrote:

                      > Well, I'd have to disagree that any of them are "close enough", but I
                      > guess it comes down to personal preference. I might simply omit
                      > something like Ing. in flowing text, but I'd definitely leave it in a
                      > letterhead.
                      >
                      > Michael
                      >
                      > On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 9:07 PM, James Kirchner <jpklists@...> wrote:
                      > > Some aren't the same thing, and some of them are close enough equivalents.
                      > >
                      > > One of the problems I've had is that in the case of titles that don't exist at all in English, and that are abbreviated, the English-speaking user won't perceive them as titles and is liable to assume they're abbreviations of people's first names. So they think everybody in the Czech Republic is named some equivalent of Ignatz or Inga. I've also had people just ask me what "Ing." meant without the slightest notion that it might be a title.
                      > >
                      > > Thank you for your advice, Michael.
                      > >
                      > > Jamie
                      > >
                      > > On Jul 31, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Michael Grant wrote:
                      > >
                      > >> I definitely wouldn't
                      > >> "translate" the titles into any supposed American equivalent, since
                      > >> they're not really the same thing.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      > There's really no such thing as translating. It's all a scam. We
                      > basically just make stuff up and try to make it sound plausible.
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Sarka Rubkova
                      Hi, The second means John Conman, JD, PhD And at the first one: associate professor John Conman, JD, PhD CSc is older equivalent of PhD. and doc. is a
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 1, 2010
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                        Hi,
                        The second means "John Conman, JD, PhD"
                        And at the first one: "associate professor John Conman, JD, PhD"
                        CSc is older equivalent of PhD. and doc. is a title at a university.

                        Sarka

                        -------Original Message-------

                        From: James Kirchner
                        Date: 31.7.2010 18:40:47
                        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Czechlist] Doc. JUDr. and JUDr. Dr.


                        I've got the letterhead of a private law firm here, and of course it's
                        larded with many, many titles that would not appear with American lawyers'
                        names, even if they had many different degrees.

                        What I've got here looks like this:

                        "Doc. JUDr. Jan Podvodník CSc. & JUDr. Lenka Podvodníková, Dr."

                        It looks to me like a sign I used to see in front of a building that said:

                        "Lewis Business College and Lewis College of Business"

                        So what is the difference between being a "Doc. JUDr." and a "JUDr. Dr."?

                        Since the guy's already a Dr. due to the JUDr. degree, I don't see why he'd
                        call himself "Dr. Dr. Podvodník" unless he stutters. You only call yourself
                        Dr. once in the States, if at all.

                        Would the equivalent be:

                        "John Conman, JD"

                        or

                        "John Conman, JD, PhD"

                        or neither of these?

                        I could really use help with this, if anyone can provide it.

                        Thank you.

                        Sincerely,

                        akad. mal. James Kirchner, mgr. jazykovedy





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Sarka Rubkova
                        Underwater Bank?? sarka ... From: James Kirchner Date: 1.8.2010 3:51:02 To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Doc. JUDr. and JUDr. Dr. I was
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 1, 2010
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                          Underwater Bank??

                          sarka

                          -------Original Message-------

                          From: James Kirchner
                          Date: 1.8.2010 3:51:02
                          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Doc. JUDr. and JUDr. Dr.


                          I was not giving that lawyer a "nickname" or calling him a podvodnik, Romana
                          I simply made up a completely fictitious first and last name so that I
                          wouldn't reveal the identity at all.

                          You may have noticed on the list before that I also do this with corporate
                          names, such as the fictitious bank I often use as an example: "Podvodni
                          banka".

                          Jamie

                          On Jul 31, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Romana wrote:

                          > with which I am saying that
                          > I consider the nickname you gave to this lawyer, without knowing him or
                          her
                          > personally, as highly inappropriate).

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Sarka Rubkova
                          No, only pane doktore sarka ... From: James Kirchner Date: 1.8.2010 3:52:21 To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Doc. JUDr. and JUDr. Dr.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 1, 2010
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                            No, only "pane doktore"
                            sarka

                            -------Original Message-------

                            From: James Kirchner
                            Date: 1.8.2010 3:52:21
                            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Doc. JUDr. and JUDr. Dr.


                            So in a meeting would you address him as "pane doktore doktore Novaku"?

                            JK

                            On Jul 31, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Romana wrote:

                            > Therefore he is entitled, and deserves,
                            > to use two doctor titles.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Melvyn
                            Watch out for the loan sharks. http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinberkeley/2521091436/ Ha ha, loan sharks. BR M.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 1, 2010
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                              Watch out for the loan sharks.

                              http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinberkeley/2521091436/

                              Ha ha, loan sharks.

                              BR

                              M.

                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sarka Rubkova" <rubkova@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Underwater Bank??
                              >
                              > sarka
                              >
                              > -------Original Message-------
                              >
                              > From: James Kirchner
                              > Date: 1.8.2010 3:51:02
                              > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Doc. JUDr. and JUDr. Dr.
                              >
                              >
                              > I was not giving that lawyer a "nickname" or calling him a podvodnik, Romana
                              > I simply made up a completely fictitious first and last name so that I
                              > wouldn't reveal the identity at all.
                              >
                              > You may have noticed on the list before that I also do this with corporate
                              > names, such as the fictitious bank I often use as an example: "Podvodni
                              > banka".
                              >
                              > Jamie
                              >
                              > On Jul 31, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Romana wrote:
                              >
                              > > with which I am saying that
                              > > I consider the nickname you gave to this lawyer, without knowing him or
                              > her
                              > > personally, as highly inappropriate).
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Liz Spacilova
                              I like the fire exit sign LOL - Liz
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 1, 2010
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                                I like the fire exit sign LOL

                                - Liz

                                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Watch out for the loan sharks.
                                >
                                > http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinberkeley/2521091436/
                                >
                                > Ha ha, loan sharks.
                                >
                                > BR
                                >
                                > M.
                                >
                                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sarka Rubkova" <rubkova@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Underwater Bank??
                                > >
                                > > sarka
                                > >
                                > > -------Original Message-------
                                > >
                                > > From: James Kirchner
                                > > Date: 1.8.2010 3:51:02
                                > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Doc. JUDr. and JUDr. Dr.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > I was not giving that lawyer a "nickname" or calling him a podvodnik, Romana
                                > > I simply made up a completely fictitious first and last name so that I
                                > > wouldn't reveal the identity at all.
                                > >
                                > > You may have noticed on the list before that I also do this with corporate
                                > > names, such as the fictitious bank I often use as an example: "Podvodni
                                > > banka".
                                > >
                                > > Jamie
                                > >
                                > > On Jul 31, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Romana wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > with which I am saying that
                                > > > I consider the nickname you gave to this lawyer, without knowing him or
                                > > her
                                > > > personally, as highly inappropriate).
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                              • Petr
                                Dr. - doctor - odpovídá dřívějšímu CSc. a současnému Ph.D., byl udělován v přechodném období (přibližně 7-8 let) po roce 1990 před
                                Message 15 of 15 , Aug 1, 2010
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                                  "Dr. - doctor - odpovídá dřívějšímu CSc. a současnému Ph.D., byl udělován v přechodném období (přibližně 7-8 let) po roce 1990 před zavedením titulu Ph.D., kterým byl zcela nahrazen; dříve se psal před jménem, ale nyní se stejně jako Ph.D. uvádí za jménem; držitelé tohoto titulu mohou požádat příslušnou univerzitu o jeho změnu na Ph.D.; často je neoprávněně používán držiteli malých doktorátů místo příslušných zkratek RNDr., PhDr. atd."
                                  (Bez diakritiky:
                                  Dr. - doctor - odpovida drivejsimu CSc. a soucasnemu Ph.D., byl udelovan v prechodnem obdobi (priblizne 7-8 let) po roce 1990 pred zavedenim titulu Ph.D., kterym byl zcela nahrazen; drive se psal pred jmenem, ale nyni se stejne jako Ph.D. uvadi za jmenem; drzitele tohoto titulu mohou pozadat prislusnou univerzitu o jeho zmenu na Ph.D.; casto je neopravnene pouzivan drziteli malych doktoratu misto prislusnych zkratek RNDr., PhDr. atd.)
                                  Pramen:
                                  http://info-koktejl.cz/komentare-rozhovory/zajimavosti/prehled-vsech-vysokoskolskych-titulu-dil-i/
                                  Zdravi Petr Adamek

                                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <jpklists@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I've got the letterhead of a private law firm here, and of course it's larded with many, many titles that would not appear with American lawyers' names, even if they had many different degrees.
                                  >
                                  > What I've got here looks like this:
                                  >
                                  > "Doc. JUDr. Jan Podvodník CSc. & JUDr. Lenka Podvodníková, Dr."
                                  >
                                  > It looks to me like a sign I used to see in front of a building that said:
                                  >
                                  > "Lewis Business College and Lewis College of Business"
                                  >
                                  > So what is the difference between being a "Doc. JUDr." and a "JUDr. Dr."?
                                  >
                                  > Since the guy's already a Dr. due to the JUDr. degree, I don't see why he'd call himself "Dr. Dr. Podvodník" unless he stutters. You only call yourself Dr. once in the States, if at all.
                                  >
                                  > Would the equivalent be:
                                  >
                                  > "John Conman, JD"
                                  >
                                  > or
                                  >
                                  > "John Conman, JD, PhD"
                                  >
                                  > or neither of these?
                                  >
                                  > I could really use help with this, if anyone can provide it.
                                  >
                                  > Thank you.
                                  >
                                  > Sincerely,
                                  >
                                  > akad. mal. James Kirchner, mgr. jazykovedy
                                  >
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