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RE: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's

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  • Pilucha, Jiri
    I don’t know about Nike, but as regards the company that I work for (and whose name, too, is “something simple”) – attaching an apostrophe to the
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 4, 2010
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      I don’t know about Nike, but as regards the company that I work for (and whose name, too, is “something simple”) – attaching an apostrophe to the company name is regarded as infringement of the registered trade name and violation of corporate identity (although, in practice, a lawsuit about an apostrophe is rather improbable). (I do know about a company, though, that filed a lawsuit against a bidder who used their logo in low-resolution poor quality, which only goes to show you that one never knows...)

      J



      ________________________________
      From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matej Klimes
      Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:01 PM
      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's



      Sorry for having set off another heated debate... just wanted to check..

      I think the (European) headquarters which are in Czecho now are having their effect on the entire corporation, in all I've seen they're calling themselves "Hill's Science" (complete with the inevitable "company" tacked onto the end... now there's a brand name set in stone :)

      My reasoning was that if the brand name was something simple (such as Nike), nobody (not even a copywriter) would have a problem saying "Nike's new supersonic trainers.."

      Anyway, there's far more complicated stuff in that project, thanks for the pedigree explanation too, pure bred seemed OK and had enough hits, but I had a suspicion it might not be what dog-breeding people use..

      M

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: James Kirchner
      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 2:42 PM
      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's

      When you work in an English-speaking advertising agency, those brand names ARE set in stone, and you do everything possible not to disturb them in form or appearance. Grammatical rules, for example, would dictate that the plural of Chevy be "Chevies", but that is forbidden in GM advertising materials, and what is written is actually "Chevys", against standard English grammatical rules.

      Besides the fact that "Hill's Science's cat food" sounds like Czenglish (regardless of what other double sequences of possessives you find in English), it should not be changed, mainly because of this general preference for trademark integrity.

      You see evidence of this American preference in Czech in bad collocations like "se Skoda". It's ridiculous in Czech, but leaving the 's off in English would not be ridiculous at all, and certainly not as ridiculous (in less familiar trademark collocations) as that sequence of possessives.

      Jamie

      On Jan 4, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Charlie Stanford wrote:

      > Jamie, I think Melvyn is just making the point that it is perfectly alright to say "Hill's Science's cat food is alright but their dog food is a bit stodgy" - i.e. when you are using it as a possessive and not as part of the brand name. Also the other examples of double possessives he quotes are absolutely fine - I don't think it is quite as set in stone as you are making out.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: James Kirchner
      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 2:11 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's
      >
      > They are a division of Colgate-Palmolive, so their ultimate headquarters is in New York. The corporate name is "Hill's Pet Nutrition, Inc.", and that division is headquartered in Topeka, Kansas, the part of the country were many of those animal-foody, cerealy corporations are based. They may have created some shorter Euro-digestible name for the countries where English is not the native language. Maybe New York or Topeka naïvely moved the European operation to the Czech lands for their own reasons, but the headquarters are still here.
      >
      > Anyway, I would not write "Hill's Science's", but use "Hill's Science" as a brand name that can't be altered, so "Hill's Science cat food" or "cat food from Hill's Science", etc.
      >
      > Jamie
      >
      > On Jan 4, 2010, at 6:02 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
      >
      > > Thanks, Jamie and Melvyn..
      > >
      > > Melvyn, if I understand correctly Somebody's something's product is
      > > grammatically possible?
      > >
      > > Jamie, They might have changed their corporate blah blah, the logo says HS
      > > and the company's called "Hill's Science" - at least in what I'm dealing
      > > with now.. it's a proposal for a research project involving a new pet food
      > > concept, so it's about thye company and its (mostly theoretical) products,
      > > which might or might not be called "Science Diet"... in any case the
      > > company's name does nopt contain the word "diet", or does it?
      > >
      > > (BTW, their headquarters are now in Czecho and they hired a Czech consumer
      > > research agency to do a survey for them in England [with English pet owners]
      > > on the presumption that they'll save... needless to say the Czech
      > > researchers are making a mess out of it and I don't see any native Brits
      > > voluntarily discussing pet food on a blog-like forum run by heavy Czecnglish
      > > speakers..)
      > >
      > >
      > > M
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...<mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
      > > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>>
      > > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:37 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Somebody's something's
      > >
      > >
      > >> Matej, I used to work on the Hill's Science Diet account at their
      > >> advertising agency, and we would never have written it that way. I have
      > >> never seen it without the "Diet" after "Science".
      > >>
      > >> The trademark is "Hill's Science Diet", often shortened to "Science Diet".
      > >> In English it would be "Hill's Science Diet cat food", or when the Hill's
      > >> logo is emblazoned all over the piece, just "Science Diet cat food".
      > >>
      > >> For a non-English language, you'd have to handle it the way you would with
      > >> any brand name, by putting the trademark after the generic name of the
      > >> product, such as "krmivo Hill's Science Diet" or "krmivo Science Diet".
      > >>
      > >> The main thing is that you not add suffixes to anything inside the brand
      > >> name.
      > >>
      > >> Jamie
      > >>
      > >> On Jan 3, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
      > >>
      > >>> A quick ceck with native speakers please, when a brand is "somebody's
      > >>> something",
      > >>> (Hill's Science pet food in this case), can I use "Hill's Science's cat
      > >>> food" etc?
      > >>>
      > >>> Thanks a lot
      > >>>
      > >>> Matej
      > >>>
      > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> ------------------------------------
      > >>
      > >> Translators' tricks of the trade:
      > >> http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Translators' tricks of the trade:
      > > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
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