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stiff your upper lip

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  • Libor Zajíček
    Hi, how do you understand stiff lip, stiff your upper lip and the like? I am coming across this very often these days. It´s struck me in Czech translations
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 1, 2009
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      Hi,

      how do you understand "stiff lip, stiff your upper lip" and the like?
      I am coming across this very often these days. It´s struck me in Czech
      translations especially, and as there is the "cultural difference" :-)
      I am a bit confused about it. Does it have positive or negative
      meaning, or both, or is something british? All human beings are
      basically anatomically identical, but I haven´t come across this in no
      other language (although I going to do some research on it...)

      Cheers
      Libor
    • charliestnfrd
      See this Wikipedia link for an explanation of stiff upper lip Libor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiff_upper_lip. Depends on the context as to whether it is
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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        See this Wikipedia link for an explanation of "stiff upper lip" Libor:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiff_upper_lip. Depends on the context as
        to whether it is positive (British fortitude in a crisis) or negative
        (ironic or suggesting coldness). "Stiff your upper lip" is wrong - it
        would have to be "stiffen your upper lip".
        HTH
        Charlie

        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Libor Zajíèek" <libore@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > how do you understand "stiff lip, stiff your upper lip" and the like?
        > I am coming across this very often these days. It´s struck me in Czech
        > translations especially, and as there is the "cultural difference" :-)
        > I am a bit confused about it. Does it have positive or negative
        > meaning, or both, or is something british? All human beings are
        > basically anatomically identical, but I haven´t come across this in no
        > other language (although I going to do some research on it...)
        >
        > Cheers
        > Libor
        >
      • Matej Klimes
        No, radsi nechci vedet, jake preklady si videl, ale stiff upper lip je esencialni (staro)britska vlastnost, jako ze kdyz se neco nedari, kdyz by (American ci
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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          No, radsi nechci vedet, jake preklady si videl, ale "stiff upper lip" je esencialni (staro)britska vlastnost, jako ze kdyz se neco nedari, kdyz by (American ci jiny cizinec) reagoval emocionalne, udela spravny Brit takovy jako usklebek, ktery spociva v naspuleni pusy pomoci "ztvrdnuteho horniho rtu" (dovedu si predstavit, ze to tak nejaky blazen i preklada..) u nas bychom mozna rekli v nekterych pripadech studeny cumak, flegmatik, atd., podle konkretni situace.. podle Wiki ten vyraz pochazi z Ameriky, ale zdomacnel i v BR ENG, tam samozrejme s o trochu lepsimi konotacemi..

          V prenesenem ss se to pak pouziva pro chovani nebo i osobu ktera se chova staromilskym zpusobem, popripade i pro nekoho, kdo je "pravy Brit" (pozitivne i negativne, ale spis negativne), takze stiff your upper lip by mohlo byt neco jako "udelejte ze sebe praveho anglickeho snoba", zvlast pokud to napise american :)

          Jedem Madar, co se jmenuje George Miklos, byl hodne vzdelany a emigroval do Anglie (asi pred valkou), napsal kouzelnou knizecku "Stiff Upper Lip", ve ktere mluvi o zvlastnostech v chovani a zivote Britu asi trochu jako ten Anglan, co ted pise ty knihy o Francouzich (A year in the Merde atd.), akorat s trochou vice porozumeni a ucty, holt tricata leta.. doporucuju, i kdyz hodne z tech rozdilu uz davno neplati..

          M





          \
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Libor Zajícek
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 7:28 AM
          Subject: [Czechlist] stiff your upper lip


          Hi,

          how do you understand "stiff lip, stiff your upper lip" and the like?
          I am coming across this very often these days. It´s struck me in Czech
          translations especially, and as there is the "cultural difference" :-)
          I am a bit confused about it. Does it have positive or negative
          meaning, or both, or is something british? All human beings are
          basically anatomically identical, but I haven´t come across this in no
          other language (although I going to do some research on it...)

          Cheers
          Libor




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Kirchner
          Not necessarily. If your upper lip happens to be working as a waiter in a restaurant, and you don t leave a tip, you stiff your upper lip. :-) Jamie ...
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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            Not necessarily. If your upper lip happens to be working as a waiter
            in a restaurant, and you don't leave a tip, you stiff your upper
            lip. :-)

            Jamie

            On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:46 AM, charliestnfrd wrote:

            > "Stiff your upper lip" is wrong - it
            > would have to be "stiffen your upper lip".



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Libor Zajíček
            Well, thanks, but the reason why I am asking a question here is that I hope to get a living context - how you use it, how you feel it. But anyway thank a
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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              Well, thanks, but the reason why I am asking a question here is that I
              hope to get a "living context" - how you use it, how you feel it. But
              anyway thank a lot.
              Libor
            • James Kirchner
              It s interesting that the expression supposedly originated in the US, because here we use it only in reference to the British, and we assume it to be British
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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                It's interesting that the expression supposedly originated in the US,
                because here we use it only in reference to the British, and we assume
                it to be British in origin.

                In its place, Americans would probably tell each other "stay tough",
                "keep cool", "don't lose your cool", "bite the bullet", or if they're
                Catholic, "offer it up". There are other near equivalents I can't
                think of right now.

                Jamie

                On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:47 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                > No, radsi nechci vedet, jake preklady si videl, ale "stiff upper
                > lip" je esencialni (staro)britska vlastnost, jako ze kdyz se neco
                > nedari, kdyz by (American ci jiny cizinec) reagoval emocionalne,
                > udela spravny Brit takovy jako usklebek, ktery spociva v naspuleni
                > pusy pomoci "ztvrdnuteho horniho rtu" (dovedu si predstavit, ze to
                > tak nejaky blazen i preklada..) u nas bychom mozna rekli v nekterych
                > pripadech studeny cumak, flegmatik, atd., podle konkretni situace..
                > podle Wiki ten vyraz pochazi z Ameriky, ale zdomacnel i v BR ENG,
                > tam samozrejme s o trochu lepsimi konotacemi..
                >
                > V prenesenem ss se to pak pouziva pro chovani nebo i osobu ktera se
                > chova staromilskym zpusobem, popripade i pro nekoho, kdo je "pravy
                > Brit" (pozitivne i negativne, ale spis negativne), takze stiff your
                > upper lip by mohlo byt neco jako "udelejte ze sebe praveho
                > anglickeho snoba", zvlast pokud to napise american :)
                >
                > Jedem Madar, co se jmenuje George Miklos, byl hodne vzdelany a
                > emigroval do Anglie (asi pred valkou), napsal kouzelnou knizecku
                > "Stiff Upper Lip", ve ktere mluvi o zvlastnostech v chovani a zivote
                > Britu asi trochu jako ten Anglan, co ted pise ty knihy o Francouzich
                > (A year in the Merde atd.), akorat s trochou vice porozumeni a ucty,
                > holt tricata leta.. doporucuju, i kdyz hodne z tech rozdilu uz davno
                > neplati..
                >
                > M
                >
                > \
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Libor Zajícek
                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 7:28 AM
                > Subject: [Czechlist] stiff your upper lip
                >
                > Hi,
                >
                > how do you understand "stiff lip, stiff your upper lip" and the like?
                > I am coming across this very often these days. It´s struck me in Czech
                > translations especially, and as there is the "cultural difference" :-)
                > I am a bit confused about it. Does it have positive or negative
                > meaning, or both, or is something british? All human beings are
                > basically anatomically identical, but I haven´t come across this in no
                > other language (although I going to do some research on it...)
                >
                > Cheers
                > Libor
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Charlie Stanford
                Must be American English then Jamie - stiff as a verb sounds very strange to a British ear. Matej gives a very good explanation but there are a couple of
                Message 7 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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                  Must be American English then Jamie - "stiff" as a verb sounds very strange to a British ear.
                  Matej gives a very good explanation but there are a couple of things I don't go along with. Like he says, it depends on the context, but I think you would have to be a bit careful using "studeny cumak"! Other nations may think it implies coldness, but we Brits are quite proud of our stiff upper lip - not complaining, getting on with things, fortitude in adversity and all that. And for Britons a "stiff upper lip" is not something that marks you out as a snob - that is if you have your nose in the air.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: James Kirchner
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 12:06 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip


                  Not necessarily. If your upper lip happens to be working as a waiter
                  in a restaurant, and you don't leave a tip, you stiff your upper
                  lip. :-)

                  Jamie

                  On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:46 AM, charliestnfrd wrote:

                  > "Stiff your upper lip" is wrong - it
                  > would have to be "stiffen your upper lip".

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                • James Kirchner
                  In AE, if you stiff a waitress it means you have walked off without leaving her a tip. If you stiff your date, it means you never arrive and leave him or her
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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                    In AE, if you stiff a waitress it means you have walked off without
                    leaving her a tip. If you stiff your date, it means you never arrive
                    and leave him or her waiting; we also call this jilting the person.

                    Jamie

                    On Jan 2, 2009, at 6:19 AM, Charlie Stanford wrote:

                    > Must be American English then Jamie - "stiff" as a verb sounds very
                    > strange to a British ear.
                    > Matej gives a very good explanation but there are a couple of things
                    > I don't go along with. Like he says, it depends on the context, but
                    > I think you would have to be a bit careful using "studeny cumak"!
                    > Other nations may think it implies coldness, but we Brits are quite
                    > proud of our stiff upper lip - not complaining, getting on with
                    > things, fortitude in adversity and all that. And for Britons a
                    > "stiff upper lip" is not something that marks you out as a snob -
                    > that is if you have your nose in the air.
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: James Kirchner
                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 12:06 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                    >
                    > Not necessarily. If your upper lip happens to be working as a waiter
                    > in a restaurant, and you don't leave a tip, you stiff your upper
                    > lip. :-)
                    >
                    > Jamie
                    >
                    > On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:46 AM, charliestnfrd wrote:
                    >
                    > > "Stiff your upper lip" is wrong - it
                    > > would have to be "stiffen your upper lip".
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > --
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                    > Až doposud mě ušetřil příjmu 2806 spam-emailů.
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                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • daniela.vranova
                    I agree, studeny cumak is not appropriate. It s rather zatnout zuby or something similar. Daniela
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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                      I agree, studeny cumak is not appropriate. It's rather zatnout zuby or something similar.
                      Daniela

                      > ------------ Původní zpráva ------------
                      > Od: Charlie Stanford <charliestanfordtranslations@...>
                      > Předmět: Re: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                      > Datum: 02.1.2009 12:19:10
                      > ----------------------------------------
                      > Must be American English then Jamie - "stiff" as a verb sounds very strange to a
                      > British ear.
                      > Matej gives a very good explanation but there are a couple of things I don't go
                      > along with. Like he says, it depends on the context, but I think you would have
                      > to be a bit careful using "studeny cumak"! Other nations may think it implies
                      > coldness, but we Brits are quite proud of our stiff upper lip - not complaining,
                      > getting on with things, fortitude in adversity and all that. And for Britons a
                      > "stiff upper lip" is not something that marks you out as a snob - that is if you
                      > have your nose in the air.
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: James Kirchner
                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 12:06 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                      >
                      >
                      > Not necessarily. If your upper lip happens to be working as a waiter
                      > in a restaurant, and you don't leave a tip, you stiff your upper
                      > lip. :-)
                      >
                      > Jamie
                      >
                      > On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:46 AM, charliestnfrd wrote:
                      >
                      > > "Stiff your upper lip" is wrong - it
                      > > would have to be "stiffen your upper lip".
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
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                      > Až doposud mě ušetřil příjmu 2806 spam-emailů.
                      > Platící uživatelé tuto zprávu ve svých e-mailech nedostavají.
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                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                      >
                    • melvyn.geo
                      ... Okay, for example, conditions at work are really lousy but I m leaving in the near future, so in the meantime I just have to keep a stiff upper lip and get
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Libor Zajíèek" <libore@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Well, thanks, but the reason why I am asking a question here is that I
                        > hope to get a "living context" - how you use it, how you feel it. But
                        > anyway thank a lot.
                        > Libor


                        Okay, for example, conditions at work are really lousy but I'm leaving
                        in the near future, so in the meantime I just have to keep a stiff
                        upper lip and get on with it.

                        An alternative strategy is to "grin and bear it". :->

                        "Stiff your upper lip" sounds to me at best like an ad hoc form used
                        by somebody who thinks it is clever to "verb adjectives". :-) Not very
                        frequently found. "Stiffen" is normally the verb, though the phrase
                        "keep a stiff upper lip" is more common in practice.

                        As Jamie points out, "to stiff somebody" is a colloquial expression
                        (originally AmEng, I presume) meaning "fail to pay somebody". Living
                        context: Dude, I've been stiffed. Oooh, I am so upset. Now I am going
                        to open me a can of whip-ass. :-)

                        BR

                        M.
                      • melvyn.geo
                        ... Yeah, okay, amongst other things. If you are left standing by somebody then you have also been stood up . Living context:
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
                          >

                          >
                          > As Jamie points out, "to stiff somebody" is a colloquial expression
                          > (originally AmEng, I presume) meaning "fail to pay somebody".

                          Yeah, okay, amongst other things. If you are left standing by somebody
                          then you have also been "stood up". Living context:

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN45OjB-cCU

                          :-0

                          M.
                        • Libor Zajíček
                          Hola, no já jsem to slyšel v jiném smyslu. Asi jako zatnout zuby a jít apod. Ale z jiných výskytů jsem hádal i na být tvrdý anebo i studený
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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                            Hola,

                            no já jsem to slyšel v jiném smyslu. Asi jako "zatnout zuby a jít"
                            apod. Ale z jiných výskytů jsem hádal i na "být tvrdý" anebo i
                            "studený čumák". Eventuelně "poker face". Ani nevím, je-li toto
                            czenglish nebo opravdový anglicismus.
                            Dále jsem viděl pořad o britském labelu toho jména, ale nepochopil
                            jsem, co chtěli tím názvem říct.

                            Tu knihu od George Miklóse jsem kdysi četl, ale neuvědomil jsem si, že
                            se tak jmenuje.

                            Dík za příspěvky
                            Libor

                            2009/1/2 Matej Klimes <mklimes@...>:
                            > No, radsi nechci vedet, jake preklady si videl, ale "stiff upper lip" je
                            > esencialni (staro)britska vlastnost, jako ze kdyz se neco nedari, kdyz by
                            > (American ci jiny cizinec) reagoval emocionalne, udela spravny Brit takovy
                            > jako usklebek, ktery spociva v naspuleni pusy pomoci "ztvrdnuteho horniho
                            > rtu" (dovedu si predstavit, ze to tak nejaky blazen i preklada..) u nas
                            > bychom mozna rekli v nekterych pripadech studeny cumak, flegmatik, atd.,
                            > podle konkretni situace.. podle Wiki ten vyraz pochazi z Ameriky, ale
                            > zdomacnel i v BR ENG, tam samozrejme s o trochu lepsimi konotacemi..
                            >
                            > V prenesenem ss se to pak pouziva pro chovani nebo i osobu ktera se chova
                            > staromilskym zpusobem, popripade i pro nekoho, kdo je "pravy Brit"
                            > (pozitivne i negativne, ale spis negativne), takze stiff your upper lip by
                            > mohlo byt neco jako "udelejte ze sebe praveho anglickeho snoba", zvlast
                            > pokud to napise american :)
                            >
                            > Jedem Madar, co se jmenuje George Miklos, byl hodne vzdelany a emigroval do
                            > Anglie (asi pred valkou), napsal kouzelnou knizecku "Stiff Upper Lip", ve
                            > ktere mluvi o zvlastnostech v chovani a zivote Britu asi trochu jako ten
                            > Anglan, co ted pise ty knihy o Francouzich (A year in the Merde atd.),
                            > akorat s trochou vice porozumeni a ucty, holt tricata leta.. doporucuju, i
                            > kdyz hodne z tech rozdilu uz davno neplati..
                            >
                            > M
                            >
                            > \
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Libor Zajícek
                            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 7:28 AM
                            > Subject: [Czechlist] stiff your upper lip
                            >
                            > Hi,
                            >
                            > how do you understand "stiff lip, stiff your upper lip" and the like?
                            > I am coming across this very often these days. It´s struck me in Czech
                            > translations especially, and as there is the "cultural difference" :-)
                            > I am a bit confused about it. Does it have positive or negative
                            > meaning, or both, or is something british? All human beings are
                            > basically anatomically identical, but I haven´t come across this in no
                            > other language (although I going to do some research on it...)
                            >
                            > Cheers
                            > Libor
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >



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                          • Sarka Rubkova
                            Ja bych rekla Ztuhly mu rysy Sarka ... From: daniela.vranova Date: 2.1.2009 12:59:12 To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
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                              Ja bych rekla "Ztuhly mu rysy"

                              Sarka

                              -------Original Message-------

                              From: daniela.vranova
                              Date: 2.1.2009 12:59:12
                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip

                              I agree, studeny cumak is not appropriate. It's rather zatnout zuby or
                              something similar.
                              Daniela

                              > ------------ P�vodn� zpr�va ------------
                              > Od: Charlie Stanford <charliestanfordtranslations@...>
                              > P�edm�t: Re: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                              > Datum: 02.1.2009 12:19:10
                              > ----------------------------------------
                              > Must be American English then Jamie - "stiff" as a verb sounds very
                              strange to a
                              > British ear.
                              > Matej gives a very good explanation but there are a couple of things I don
                              t go
                              > along with. Like he says, it depends on the context, but I think you would
                              have
                              > to be a bit careful using "studeny cumak"! Other nations may think it
                              implies
                              > coldness, but we Brits are quite proud of our stiff upper lip - not
                              complaining,
                              > getting on with things, fortitude in adversity and all that. And for
                              Britons a
                              > "stiff upper lip" is not something that marks you out as a snob - that is
                              if you
                              > have your nose in the air.
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: James Kirchner
                              > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 12:06 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                              >
                              >
                              > Not necessarily. If your upper lip happens to be working as a waiter
                              > in a restaurant, and you don't leave a tip, you stiff your upper
                              > lip. :-)
                              >
                              > Jamie
                              >
                              > On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:46 AM, charliestnfrd wrote:
                              >
                              > > "Stiff your upper lip" is wrong - it
                              > > would have to be "stiffen your upper lip".
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Jsem chr�n�n bezplatn�m SPAMfighter pro soukrom� u�ivatele.
                              > A� doposud m� u�et�il p��jmu 2806 spam-email�.
                              > Plat�c� u�ivatel� tuto zpr�vu ve sv�ch e-mailech nedostavaj�.
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                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

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                            • Matej Klimes
                              Like he says, it depends on the context, but I think you would have to be a bit careful using studeny cumak ! I was thinking about a situation where a bit of
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Like he says, it depends on the context, but I think you would have to be a bit careful using "studeny cumak"!

                                I was thinking about a situation where a bit of emotion would normally be displayed, (by most people in some other countries), but where a Briton just smirks, raises an eyebrow, or does the stiff upper lip thing (is it actually done, or is it just a figure of speecvh??)... I agree studeny cumak is a bit specific, but it might be OK to describe one tiny aspect of SUL, if from an outsider's perspective and a bit pejoratively.. (which would be the way Americans would have meant SUJ when they came up with it, I suppose??)

                                BTW Jamie, you're right about different expressions being used in the US, but this one was meant to describe Brits only, so it wouldn't be used at home unless a Briton was the subject, plus it caught on in England and became one of these "Brit. Eng expressions" Americans would laugh at, I suppose..


                                Other nations may think it implies coldness,

                                Yes, that's what an average Czech will think if they don't speak enopugh Eng and have not lived in Britain..


                                but we Brits are quite proud of our stiff upper lip - not complaining, getting on with things, fortitude in adversity and all that.
                                ... isn't it one of those old things that everybody clings to, though? Not saying I disagree or not like it, but the younger generations in UK seem to be a bit spoiled to bother with things like these..


                                And for Britons a "stiff upper lip" is not something that marks you out as a snob - that is if you have your nose in the air.
                                ... fair enough, it wouldn't among Brits, but it does/can have that feel (which may or may not be legitimate) to a continental person, as in someone who's too cool to be bothered - Britons wouldn't probably use SUJ in this context, but others may??


                                I wish I could find my copy of that Miklos book, I'm sure he has an interesting definition..

                                M





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Matej Klimes
                                This is what I meant when I suggested studeny cumak as one of possible translations for one of many forms of SUJ: One who has a stiff upper lip displays
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  This is what I meant when I suggested studeny cumak as one of possible
                                  translations for one of many forms of SUJ:


                                  One who has a stiff upper lip displays fortitude in the face of adversity,
                                  or ***exercises self-restraint in the expression of emotion****

                                  But I agree studeny cumak might be a bit strong and is nearly always
                                  negative, whereas SUJ is meant to be positive, at least among BR ENG lips,
                                  so to speak..

                                  M
                                • Sarka Rubkova
                                  Nebo se da taky hezky cesky rici nakrcil nos Sarka ... From: Matej Klimes Date: 2.1.2009 14:48:39 To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re:
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Nebo se da taky hezky cesky rici "nakrcil nos"

                                    Sarka

                                    -------Original Message-------

                                    From: Matej Klimes
                                    Date: 2.1.2009 14:48:39
                                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip

                                    Like he says, it depends on the context, but I think you would have to be a
                                    bit careful using "studeny cumak"!

                                    I was thinking about a situation where a bit of emotion would normally be
                                    displayed, (by most people in some other countries), but where a Briton just
                                    smirks, raises an eyebrow, or does the stiff upper lip thing (is it actually
                                    done, or is it just a figure of speecvh??)... I agree studeny cumak is a bit
                                    specific, but it might be OK to describe one tiny aspect of SUL, if from an
                                    outsider's perspective and a bit pejoratively.. (which would be the way
                                    Americans would have meant SUJ when they came up with it, I suppose??)

                                    BTW Jamie, you're right about different expressions being used in the US,
                                    but this one was meant to describe Brits only, so it wouldn't be used at
                                    home unless a Briton was the subject, plus it caught on in England and
                                    became one of these "Brit. Eng expressions" Americans would laugh at, I
                                    suppose..

                                    Other nations may think it implies coldness,

                                    Yes, that's what an average Czech will think if they don't speak enopugh Eng
                                    and have not lived in Britain..

                                    but we Brits are quite proud of our stiff upper lip - not complaining,
                                    getting on with things, fortitude in adversity and all that.
                                    ... isn't it one of those old things that everybody clings to, though? Not
                                    saying I disagree or not like it, but the younger generations in UK seem to
                                    be a bit spoiled to bother with things like these..

                                    And for Britons a "stiff upper lip" is not something that marks you out as a
                                    snob - that is if you have your nose in the air.
                                    ... fair enough, it wouldn't among Brits, but it does/can have that feel
                                    (which may or may not be legitimate) to a continental person, as in someone
                                    who's too cool to be bothered - Britons wouldn't probably use SUJ in this
                                    context, but others may??

                                    I wish I could find my copy of that Miklos book, I'm sure he has an
                                    interesting definition..

                                    M

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • spektrum2002
                                    Ja mam knizku od George Mikese How to be an alien . Neni to ta, co jsi cetl? Petr A.
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Ja mam knizku od George Mikese "How to be an alien". Neni to ta, co
                                      jsi cetl?
                                      Petr A.
                                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Libor Zajíèek" <libore@...> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      > Tu knihu od George Miklóse jsem kdysi èetl, ale neuvìdomil jsem si, ¾e
                                      > se tak jmenuje.
                                      >

                                      >
                                    • Matej Klimes
                                      Jo je, tak SUJ byla predpokladam jen kapitola? Kazdopadne to tam nekde musi byt.. M ... From: spektrum2002 To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jan 2, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Jo je, tak SUJ byla predpokladam jen kapitola? Kazdopadne to tam nekde musi byt..

                                        M


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: spektrum2002
                                        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 3:12 PM
                                        Subject: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip


                                        Ja mam knizku od George Mikese "How to be an alien". Neni to ta, co
                                        jsi cetl?
                                        Petr A.
                                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Libor Zajíèek" <libore@...> wrote:
                                        >>
                                        > Tu knihu od George Miklóse jsem kdysi èetl, ale neuvìdomil jsem si, ¾e
                                        > se tak jmenuje.
                                        >

                                        >





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • hahna123
                                        Hi Jamie, I just recently joined this group and I looooved you reversed culture shock post! What a hoot! My name is Tanja I am Czech but have been living in
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jan 5, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Jamie,

                                          I just recently joined this group and I looooved you "reversed culture
                                          shock" post! What a hoot!

                                          My name is Tanja I am Czech but have been living in the US for 11
                                          years now. I have a blog for Czech and Slovaks (or anyone who is
                                          interested in our culture) which helps people connect with their
                                          Czech/Slovak roots while living abroad. One of my categories is called
                                          the "Stories of others" (where Jana from this group contributes on
                                          regular basis ;) and your story would be a great addition!!! Can I
                                          post it please? It would be anonymous of course (unless you want it
                                          otherwise).

                                          Thank you,

                                          Tanja

                                          PS: blog name is Czechmate Diary if you want to Czech it out
                                          (www.czechmatediary.cz)
                                        • Romana
                                          Hi Tanja, Yes, I found this thread very interesting and entertaining, too! If you want any more material, you are welcome to contact me directly at
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jan 5, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Tanja,



                                            Yes, I found this thread very interesting and entertaining, too! If you want
                                            any more material, you are welcome to contact me directly at
                                            translators@..., and I will tell you my whole story. In short: Born
                                            in CZ to Czech parents, grown up in Austria and Germany from age of 7 (but
                                            always maintained close links to the CZ), found a new (the perfect) home in
                                            Australia at age 38 (year 2000). My apologies to all other readers, I wasn't
                                            able to find the way to contact Tanja directly. (Can't make any sense of
                                            your 'PS', dear Tanja, either.)



                                            Best regards,

                                            Romana





                                            From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                            Of hahna123
                                            Sent: Tuesday, 6 January 2009 2:00 AM
                                            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip



                                            Hi Jamie,

                                            I just recently joined this group and I looooved you "reversed culture
                                            shock" post! What a hoot!

                                            My name is Tanja I am Czech but have been living in the US for 11
                                            years now. I have a blog for Czech and Slovaks (or anyone who is
                                            interested in our culture) which helps people connect with their
                                            Czech/Slovak roots while living abroad. One of my categories is called
                                            the "Stories of others" (where Jana from this group contributes on
                                            regular basis ;) and your story would be a great addition!!! Can I
                                            post it please? It would be anonymous of course (unless you want it
                                            otherwise).

                                            Thank you,

                                            Tanja

                                            PS: blog name is Czechmate Diary if you want to Czech it out
                                            (www.czechmatediary.cz)





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Jan Culka
                                            If anyone is interested in the Tanja´s blog, it is .com, not .cz! Honza ... From: Romana To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:58 AM
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jan 5, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              If anyone is interested in the Tanja´s blog, it is .com, not .cz!
                                              Honza






                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Romana
                                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:58 AM
                                              Subject: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip


                                              Hi Tanja,

                                              Yes, I found this thread very interesting and entertaining, too! If you want
                                              any more material, you are welcome to contact me directly at
                                              translators@..., and I will tell you my whole story. In short: Born
                                              in CZ to Czech parents, grown up in Austria and Germany from age of 7 (but
                                              always maintained close links to the CZ), found a new (the perfect) home in
                                              Australia at age 38 (year 2000). My apologies to all other readers, I wasn't
                                              able to find the way to contact Tanja directly. (Can't make any sense of
                                              your 'PS', dear Tanja, either.)

                                              Best regards,

                                              Romana

                                              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              Of hahna123
                                              Sent: Tuesday, 6 January 2009 2:00 AM
                                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip

                                              Hi Jamie,

                                              I just recently joined this group and I looooved you "reversed culture
                                              shock" post! What a hoot!

                                              My name is Tanja I am Czech but have been living in the US for 11
                                              years now. I have a blog for Czech and Slovaks (or anyone who is
                                              interested in our culture) which helps people connect with their
                                              Czech/Slovak roots while living abroad. One of my categories is called
                                              the "Stories of others" (where Jana from this group contributes on
                                              regular basis ;) and your story would be a great addition!!! Can I
                                              post it please? It would be anonymous of course (unless you want it
                                              otherwise).

                                              Thank you,

                                              Tanja

                                              PS: blog name is Czechmate Diary if you want to Czech it out
                                              (www.czechmatediary.cz)

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Tanja Zapletalova
                                              Thanks Honza! Diky Honzo! ... From: Jan Culka Subject: Re: Should be Reversed Culture Shock - RE: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jan 6, 2009
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Thanks Honza!
                                                Diky Honzo!

                                                --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Jan Culka <culka@...> wrote:
                                                From: Jan Culka <culka@...>
                                                Subject: Re: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                                                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:56 AM











                                                If anyone is interested in the Tanja´s blog, it is .com, not ..cz!

                                                Honza



                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                From: Romana

                                                To: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com

                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:58 AM

                                                Subject: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip



                                                Hi Tanja,



                                                Yes, I found this thread very interesting and entertaining, too! If you want

                                                any more material, you are welcome to contact me directly at

                                                translators@ bigpond.com, and I will tell you my whole story. In short: Born

                                                in CZ to Czech parents, grown up in Austria and Germany from age of 7 (but

                                                always maintained close links to the CZ), found a new (the perfect) home in

                                                Australia at age 38 (year 2000). My apologies to all other readers, I wasn't

                                                able to find the way to contact Tanja directly. (Can't make any sense of

                                                your 'PS', dear Tanja, either.)



                                                Best regards,



                                                Romana



                                                From: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

                                                Of hahna123

                                                Sent: Tuesday, 6 January 2009 2:00 AM

                                                To: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com

                                                Subject: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip



                                                Hi Jamie,



                                                I just recently joined this group and I looooved you "reversed culture

                                                shock" post! What a hoot!



                                                My name is Tanja I am Czech but have been living in the US for 11

                                                years now. I have a blog for Czech and Slovaks (or anyone who is

                                                interested in our culture) which helps people connect with their

                                                Czech/Slovak roots while living abroad. One of my categories is called

                                                the "Stories of others" (where Jana from this group contributes on

                                                regular basis ;) and your story would be a great addition!!! Can I

                                                post it please? It would be anonymous of course (unless you want it

                                                otherwise).



                                                Thank you,



                                                Tanja



                                                PS: blog name is Czechmate Diary if you want to Czech it out

                                                (www.czechmatediary .cz)



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Jan Culka
                                                You are welcome, Tanja! H. ... From: Tanja Zapletalova To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Should be Reversed
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jan 6, 2009
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  You are welcome, Tanja!
                                                  H.


                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: Tanja Zapletalova
                                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 5:46 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip


                                                  Thanks Honza!
                                                  Diky Honzo!

                                                  --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Jan Culka <culka@...> wrote:
                                                  From: Jan Culka <culka@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:56 AM

                                                  If anyone is interested in the Tanja´s blog, it is .com, not ..cz!

                                                  Honza

                                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                                  From: Romana

                                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com

                                                  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:58 AM

                                                  Subject: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip

                                                  Hi Tanja,

                                                  Yes, I found this thread very interesting and entertaining, too! If you want

                                                  any more material, you are welcome to contact me directly at

                                                  translators@ bigpond.com, and I will tell you my whole story. In short: Born

                                                  in CZ to Czech parents, grown up in Austria and Germany from age of 7 (but

                                                  always maintained close links to the CZ), found a new (the perfect) home in

                                                  Australia at age 38 (year 2000). My apologies to all other readers, I wasn't

                                                  able to find the way to contact Tanja directly. (Can't make any sense of

                                                  your 'PS', dear Tanja, either.)

                                                  Best regards,

                                                  Romana

                                                  From: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf

                                                  Of hahna123

                                                  Sent: Tuesday, 6 January 2009 2:00 AM

                                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com

                                                  Subject: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip

                                                  Hi Jamie,

                                                  I just recently joined this group and I looooved you "reversed culture

                                                  shock" post! What a hoot!

                                                  My name is Tanja I am Czech but have been living in the US for 11

                                                  years now. I have a blog for Czech and Slovaks (or anyone who is

                                                  interested in our culture) which helps people connect with their

                                                  Czech/Slovak roots while living abroad. One of my categories is called

                                                  the "Stories of others" (where Jana from this group contributes on

                                                  regular basis ;) and your story would be a great addition!!! Can I

                                                  post it please? It would be anonymous of course (unless you want it

                                                  otherwise).

                                                  Thank you,

                                                  Tanja

                                                  PS: blog name is Czechmate Diary if you want to Czech it out

                                                  (www.czechmatediary .cz)

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • James Kirchner
                                                  Not reversed culture shock. It s reverse culture shock. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jan 6, 2009
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Not "reversed" culture shock. It's "reverse" culture shock.

                                                    On Jan 6, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Tanja Zapletalova wrote:

                                                    > Thanks Honza!
                                                    > Diky Honzo!
                                                    >
                                                    > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Jan Culka <culka@...> wrote:
                                                    > From: Jan Culka <culka@...>
                                                    > Subject: Re: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist]
                                                    > Re: stiff your upper lip
                                                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:56 AM
                                                    >
                                                    > If anyone is interested in the Tanja´s blog, it is .com, not ..cz!
                                                    >
                                                    > Honza
                                                    >
                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    >
                                                    > From: Romana
                                                    >
                                                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                    >
                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:58 AM
                                                    >
                                                    > Subject: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist] Re:
                                                    > stiff your upper lip
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi Tanja,
                                                    >
                                                    > Yes, I found this thread very interesting and entertaining, too! If
                                                    > you want
                                                    >
                                                    > any more material, you are welcome to contact me directly at
                                                    >
                                                    > translators@ bigpond.com, and I will tell you my whole story. In
                                                    > short: Born
                                                    >
                                                    > in CZ to Czech parents, grown up in Austria and Germany from age of
                                                    > 7 (but
                                                    >
                                                    > always maintained close links to the CZ), found a new (the perfect)
                                                    > home in
                                                    >
                                                    > Australia at age 38 (year 2000). My apologies to all other readers,
                                                    > I wasn't
                                                    >
                                                    > able to find the way to contact Tanja directly. (Can't make any
                                                    > sense of
                                                    >
                                                    > your 'PS', dear Tanja, either.)
                                                    >
                                                    > Best regards,
                                                    >
                                                    > Romana
                                                    >
                                                    > From: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com]
                                                    > On Behalf
                                                    >
                                                    > Of hahna123
                                                    >
                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, 6 January 2009 2:00 AM
                                                    >
                                                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                    >
                                                    > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi Jamie,
                                                    >
                                                    > I just recently joined this group and I looooved you "reversed culture
                                                    >
                                                    > shock" post! What a hoot!
                                                    >
                                                    > My name is Tanja I am Czech but have been living in the US for 11
                                                    >
                                                    > years now. I have a blog for Czech and Slovaks (or anyone who is
                                                    >
                                                    > interested in our culture) which helps people connect with their
                                                    >
                                                    > Czech/Slovak roots while living abroad. One of my categories is called
                                                    >
                                                    > the "Stories of others" (where Jana from this group contributes on
                                                    >
                                                    > regular basis ;) and your story would be a great addition!!! Can I
                                                    >
                                                    > post it please? It would be anonymous of course (unless you want it
                                                    >
                                                    > otherwise).
                                                    >
                                                    > Thank you,
                                                    >
                                                    > Tanja
                                                    >
                                                    > PS: blog name is Czechmate Diary if you want to Czech it out
                                                    >
                                                    > (www.czechmatediary .cz)
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Romana
                                                    Of course, Jamie, thanks for the correction! Romana From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Kirchner Sent:
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jan 6, 2009
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Of course, Jamie, thanks for the correction!

                                                      Romana



                                                      From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                      Of James Kirchner
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, 7 January 2009 3:19 AM
                                                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist] Re: stiff
                                                      your upper lip



                                                      Not "reversed" culture shock. It's "reverse" culture shock.

                                                      On Jan 6, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Tanja Zapletalova wrote:

                                                      > Thanks Honza!
                                                      > Diky Honzo!
                                                      >
                                                      > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Jan Culka <culka@...
                                                      <mailto:culka%40marconi.ttc.cz> > wrote:
                                                      > From: Jan Culka <culka@... <mailto:culka%40marconi.ttc.cz> >
                                                      > Subject: Re: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist]
                                                      > Re: stiff your upper lip
                                                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:56 AM
                                                      >
                                                      > If anyone is interested in the Tanja´s blog, it is .com, not ..cz!
                                                      >
                                                      > Honza
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      >
                                                      > From: Romana
                                                      >
                                                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      >
                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:58 AM
                                                      >
                                                      > Subject: Should be 'Reversed Culture Shock' - RE: [Czechlist] Re:
                                                      > stiff your upper lip
                                                      >
                                                      > Hi Tanja,
                                                      >
                                                      > Yes, I found this thread very interesting and entertaining, too! If
                                                      > you want
                                                      >
                                                      > any more material, you are welcome to contact me directly at
                                                      >
                                                      > translators@ bigpond.com, and I will tell you my whole story. In
                                                      > short: Born
                                                      >
                                                      > in CZ to Czech parents, grown up in Austria and Germany from age of
                                                      > 7 (but
                                                      >
                                                      > always maintained close links to the CZ), found a new (the perfect)
                                                      > home in
                                                      >
                                                      > Australia at age 38 (year 2000). My apologies to all other readers,
                                                      > I wasn't
                                                      >
                                                      > able to find the way to contact Tanja directly. (Can't make any
                                                      > sense of
                                                      >
                                                      > your 'PS', dear Tanja, either.)
                                                      >
                                                      > Best regards,
                                                      >
                                                      > Romana
                                                      >
                                                      > From: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com]
                                                      > On Behalf
                                                      >
                                                      > Of hahna123
                                                      >
                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, 6 January 2009 2:00 AM
                                                      >
                                                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                      >
                                                      > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: stiff your upper lip
                                                      >
                                                      > Hi Jamie,
                                                      >
                                                      > I just recently joined this group and I looooved you "reversed culture
                                                      >
                                                      > shock" post! What a hoot!
                                                      >
                                                      > My name is Tanja I am Czech but have been living in the US for 11
                                                      >
                                                      > years now. I have a blog for Czech and Slovaks (or anyone who is
                                                      >
                                                      > interested in our culture) which helps people connect with their
                                                      >
                                                      > Czech/Slovak roots while living abroad. One of my categories is called
                                                      >
                                                      > the "Stories of others" (where Jana from this group contributes on
                                                      >
                                                      > regular basis ;) and your story would be a great addition!!! Can I
                                                      >
                                                      > post it please? It would be anonymous of course (unless you want it
                                                      >
                                                      > otherwise).
                                                      >
                                                      > Thank you,
                                                      >
                                                      > Tanja
                                                      >
                                                      > PS: blog name is Czechmate Diary if you want to Czech it out
                                                      >
                                                      > (www.czechmatediary .cz)
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