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Re: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat

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  • Matej Klimes
    I think it s less flexible and less official than flexitime.. If/when your work does not immediatelly affect others and your superior authorises it, you ll
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 1, 2008
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      I think it's less flexible and less official than flexitime..

      If/when your work does not immediatelly affect others and your superior authorises it, you'll come in earlier or stay late one day to be able to get off earlier another day. It's not a system, it's just a possibility, it only works if your work is reasonably independent and when your superior is sensible, remember we're talking blue collar jobs and things like flexitime are usually not available to these people..

      nadpracovat simply means to work a little in advance to be able to take time off, it can be used for working after taking time off, alth' strictly grammatically and technically it shouldn't be

      M - musim si ted nadpracovat abych mel zitra volno (ale klienti to asi neuznaji)




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: James Kirchner
      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat


      I'm a little confused by the usage. It's flex time if the system is
      actually flexible, voluntary and somewhat controlled by the employee.
      If it's a rigid requirement, we don't have a term for the working
      hours, but for the time off, or for the arrangement of the whole week.

      flex time = The start and end of the work day can vary, as the
      employee wishes, and whatever time is lost or gained at the beginning
      of the day is made up at the end.

      comp time = extra time off at the end of the week (or at any time) to
      make up for being forced to work extra hours on a different day.

      four days on / three days off, or three days on / four days off = the
      employee is forced to work a longer standard shift each day, but he
      gets longer weekends.

      So the system is flex time only if it is flexible and the employee is
      somewhat in control of it. If the employee isn't in control of it, I
      would just use a circumlocution.

      Jamie

      On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Jennifer Hejtmankova wrote:

      > Coilin, I think that flextime/flexitime would be appropriate (check
      > google for the more common spelling). And wait to see what Jamie has
      > to say, though...
      >
      > Jennifer
      >
      > On 1.12.2008, at 6:57, Jaroslav Hejzlar wrote:
      >
      > > Hi, Coilin!
      > > I believe you are right, this probably means the possibility to work
      > > some hours in advance, probably by staying at work longer hours or
      > > by starting work earlier than required (and then to have the extra
      > > hours off when I need). HTH.
      > > Regards,
      > > Jarda
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: coilinoc
      > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:18 AM
      > > Subject: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat
      > >
      > > Hi there,
      > >
      > > Does anyone know what this phrase means exactly?
      > >
      > > I have very little context:
      > > It's a text about employers attitudes to foreign employees:
      > >
      > > U pracovniku v nemanualnich pracovnich pozicich se jedna zejmena o
      > > moznost prizpusobit si zacatek a konec pracovni doby, u manualnich
      > > pracovniku pak spise prilezitost nadpracovat si cast pracovniho dne
      > > nebo i delsi casovy usek
      > >
      > > I don't think it's overtime but some sort of arrangement where you
      > > work four ten-hour days instead of five eight-hour days to get your
      > > forty hour week. Am I right in this interpretation? And, if so, what
      > > would we call that in English? (flexitime?)
      > >
      > > MTIA
      > >
      > > Coilin
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James Kirchner
      Then we would say work extra hours . Don t forget, there s also working off the clock , but I don t think that s what we re talking about in this case. Jamie
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 1, 2008
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        Then we would say "work extra hours".

        Don't forget, there's also "working off the clock", but I don't think
        that's what we're talking about in this case.

        Jamie

        On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:30 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

        > I think it's less flexible and less official than flexitime..
        >
        > If/when your work does not immediatelly affect others and your
        > superior authorises it, you'll come in earlier or stay late one day
        > to be able to get off earlier another day. It's not a system, it's
        > just a possibility, it only works if your work is reasonably
        > independent and when your superior is sensible, remember we're
        > talking blue collar jobs and things like flexitime are usually not
        > available to these people..
        >
        > nadpracovat simply means to work a little in advance to be able to
        > take time off, it can be used for working after taking time off,
        > alth' strictly grammatically and technically it shouldn't be
        >
        > M - musim si ted nadpracovat abych mel zitra volno (ale klienti to
        > asi neuznaji)
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: James Kirchner
        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:24 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat
        >
        > I'm a little confused by the usage. It's flex time if the system is
        > actually flexible, voluntary and somewhat controlled by the employee.
        > If it's a rigid requirement, we don't have a term for the working
        > hours, but for the time off, or for the arrangement of the whole week.
        >
        > flex time = The start and end of the work day can vary, as the
        > employee wishes, and whatever time is lost or gained at the beginning
        > of the day is made up at the end.
        >
        > comp time = extra time off at the end of the week (or at any time) to
        > make up for being forced to work extra hours on a different day.
        >
        > four days on / three days off, or three days on / four days off = the
        > employee is forced to work a longer standard shift each day, but he
        > gets longer weekends.
        >
        > So the system is flex time only if it is flexible and the employee is
        > somewhat in control of it. If the employee isn't in control of it, I
        > would just use a circumlocution.
        >
        > Jamie
        >
        > On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Jennifer Hejtmankova wrote:
        >
        > > Coilin, I think that flextime/flexitime would be appropriate (check
        > > google for the more common spelling). And wait to see what Jamie has
        > > to say, though...
        > >
        > > Jennifer
        > >
        > > On 1.12.2008, at 6:57, Jaroslav Hejzlar wrote:
        > >
        > > > Hi, Coilin!
        > > > I believe you are right, this probably means the possibility to
        > work
        > > > some hours in advance, probably by staying at work longer hours or
        > > > by starting work earlier than required (and then to have the extra
        > > > hours off when I need). HTH.
        > > > Regards,
        > > > Jarda
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: coilinoc
        > > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:18 AM
        > > > Subject: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat
        > > >
        > > > Hi there,
        > > >
        > > > Does anyone know what this phrase means exactly?
        > > >
        > > > I have very little context:
        > > > It's a text about employers attitudes to foreign employees:
        > > >
        > > > U pracovniku v nemanualnich pracovnich pozicich se jedna zejmena o
        > > > moznost prizpusobit si zacatek a konec pracovni doby, u manualnich
        > > > pracovniku pak spise prilezitost nadpracovat si cast pracovniho
        > dne
        > > > nebo i delsi casovy usek
        > > >
        > > > I don't think it's overtime but some sort of arrangement where you
        > > > work four ten-hour days instead of five eight-hour days to get
        > your
        > > > forty hour week. Am I right in this interpretation? And, if so,
        > what
        > > > would we call that in English? (flexitime?)
        > > >
        > > > MTIA
        > > >
        > > > Coilin
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Matej Klimes
        working off the clock would be a prescas, right? Or nezapocitany prescas?? If a worker clocks in as they go to work, then I think it would be fairly strange
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 1, 2008
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          working off the clock would be a prescas, right? Or nezapocitany prescas??

          If a worker clocks in as they go to work, then I think it would be fairly strange for them to work extra after they have clocked out, but in other types of jobs where one has more responsibility and does whatever needs to be done, prescasy are normally not talked about outside of employment contract

          M




          ----- Original Message -----
          From: James Kirchner
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:49 PM
          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat


          Then we would say "work extra hours".

          Don't forget, there's also "working off the clock", but I don't think
          that's what we're talking about in this case.

          Jamie

          On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:30 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

          > I think it's less flexible and less official than flexitime..
          >
          > If/when your work does not immediatelly affect others and your
          > superior authorises it, you'll come in earlier or stay late one day
          > to be able to get off earlier another day. It's not a system, it's
          > just a possibility, it only works if your work is reasonably
          > independent and when your superior is sensible, remember we're
          > talking blue collar jobs and things like flexitime are usually not
          > available to these people..
          >
          > nadpracovat simply means to work a little in advance to be able to
          > take time off, it can be used for working after taking time off,
          > alth' strictly grammatically and technically it shouldn't be
          >
          > M - musim si ted nadpracovat abych mel zitra volno (ale klienti to
          > asi neuznaji)
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: James Kirchner
          > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:24 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat
          >
          > I'm a little confused by the usage. It's flex time if the system is
          > actually flexible, voluntary and somewhat controlled by the employee.
          > If it's a rigid requirement, we don't have a term for the working
          > hours, but for the time off, or for the arrangement of the whole week.
          >
          > flex time = The start and end of the work day can vary, as the
          > employee wishes, and whatever time is lost or gained at the beginning
          > of the day is made up at the end.
          >
          > comp time = extra time off at the end of the week (or at any time) to
          > make up for being forced to work extra hours on a different day.
          >
          > four days on / three days off, or three days on / four days off = the
          > employee is forced to work a longer standard shift each day, but he
          > gets longer weekends.
          >
          > So the system is flex time only if it is flexible and the employee is
          > somewhat in control of it. If the employee isn't in control of it, I
          > would just use a circumlocution.
          >
          > Jamie
          >
          > On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Jennifer Hejtmankova wrote:
          >
          > > Coilin, I think that flextime/flexitime would be appropriate (check
          > > google for the more common spelling). And wait to see what Jamie has
          > > to say, though...
          > >
          > > Jennifer
          > >
          > > On 1.12.2008, at 6:57, Jaroslav Hejzlar wrote:
          > >
          > > > Hi, Coilin!
          > > > I believe you are right, this probably means the possibility to
          > work
          > > > some hours in advance, probably by staying at work longer hours or
          > > > by starting work earlier than required (and then to have the extra
          > > > hours off when I need). HTH.
          > > > Regards,
          > > > Jarda
          > > >
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > From: coilinoc
          > > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:18 AM
          > > > Subject: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat
          > > >
          > > > Hi there,
          > > >
          > > > Does anyone know what this phrase means exactly?
          > > >
          > > > I have very little context:
          > > > It's a text about employers attitudes to foreign employees:
          > > >
          > > > U pracovniku v nemanualnich pracovnich pozicich se jedna zejmena o
          > > > moznost prizpusobit si zacatek a konec pracovni doby, u manualnich
          > > > pracovniku pak spise prilezitost nadpracovat si cast pracovniho
          > dne
          > > > nebo i delsi casovy usek
          > > >
          > > > I don't think it's overtime but some sort of arrangement where you
          > > > work four ten-hour days instead of five eight-hour days to get
          > your
          > > > forty hour week. Am I right in this interpretation? And, if so,
          > what
          > > > would we call that in English? (flexitime?)
          > > >
          > > > MTIA
          > > >
          > > > Coilin
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Matej Klimes
          Waita minute: Work extra hours may simply mean work more than expected/required, as in when there s lots of orders in a business in a busy period, or when
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 1, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Waita minute: "Work extra hours" may simply mean work more than expected/required, as in when there's lots of orders in a business in a busy period, or when someone does extra shifts because they need extra money - it doesn't always mean that they will get the corresponding time off later - or does it?

            M


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: James Kirchner
            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:49 PM
            Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat


            Then we would say "work extra hours".

            Don't forget, there's also "working off the clock", but I don't think
            that's what we're talking about in this case.

            Jamie

            On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:30 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

            > I think it's less flexible and less official than flexitime..
            >
            > If/when your work does not immediatelly affect others and your
            > superior authorises it, you'll come in earlier or stay late one day
            > to be able to get off earlier another day. It's not a system, it's
            > just a possibility, it only works if your work is reasonably
            > independent and when your superior is sensible, remember we're
            > talking blue collar jobs and things like flexitime are usually not
            > available to these people..
            >
            > nadpracovat simply means to work a little in advance to be able to
            > take time off, it can be used for working after taking time off,
            > alth' strictly grammatically and technically it shouldn't be
            >
            > M - musim si ted nadpracovat abych mel zitra volno (ale klienti to
            > asi neuznaji)
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: James Kirchner
            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:24 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat
            >
            > I'm a little confused by the usage. It's flex time if the system is
            > actually flexible, voluntary and somewhat controlled by the employee.
            > If it's a rigid requirement, we don't have a term for the working
            > hours, but for the time off, or for the arrangement of the whole week.
            >
            > flex time = The start and end of the work day can vary, as the
            > employee wishes, and whatever time is lost or gained at the beginning
            > of the day is made up at the end.
            >
            > comp time = extra time off at the end of the week (or at any time) to
            > make up for being forced to work extra hours on a different day.
            >
            > four days on / three days off, or three days on / four days off = the
            > employee is forced to work a longer standard shift each day, but he
            > gets longer weekends.
            >
            > So the system is flex time only if it is flexible and the employee is
            > somewhat in control of it. If the employee isn't in control of it, I
            > would just use a circumlocution.
            >
            > Jamie
            >
            > On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Jennifer Hejtmankova wrote:
            >
            > > Coilin, I think that flextime/flexitime would be appropriate (check
            > > google for the more common spelling). And wait to see what Jamie has
            > > to say, though...
            > >
            > > Jennifer
            > >
            > > On 1.12.2008, at 6:57, Jaroslav Hejzlar wrote:
            > >
            > > > Hi, Coilin!
            > > > I believe you are right, this probably means the possibility to
            > work
            > > > some hours in advance, probably by staying at work longer hours or
            > > > by starting work earlier than required (and then to have the extra
            > > > hours off when I need). HTH.
            > > > Regards,
            > > > Jarda
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: coilinoc
            > > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:18 AM
            > > > Subject: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat
            > > >
            > > > Hi there,
            > > >
            > > > Does anyone know what this phrase means exactly?
            > > >
            > > > I have very little context:
            > > > It's a text about employers attitudes to foreign employees:
            > > >
            > > > U pracovniku v nemanualnich pracovnich pozicich se jedna zejmena o
            > > > moznost prizpusobit si zacatek a konec pracovni doby, u manualnich
            > > > pracovniku pak spise prilezitost nadpracovat si cast pracovniho
            > dne
            > > > nebo i delsi casovy usek
            > > >
            > > > I don't think it's overtime but some sort of arrangement where you
            > > > work four ten-hour days instead of five eight-hour days to get
            > your
            > > > forty hour week. Am I right in this interpretation? And, if so,
            > what
            > > > would we call that in English? (flexitime?)
            > > >
            > > > MTIA
            > > >
            > > > Coilin
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James Kirchner
            ... It means the second one. ... Some abusive employers or managers require it. They usually end up in court. Jamie
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 1, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:56 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

              > working off the clock would be a prescas, right? Or nezapocitany
              > prescas??
              >

              It means the second one.

              > If a worker clocks in as they go to work, then I think it would be
              > fairly strange for them to work extra after they have clocked out,
              >

              Some abusive employers or managers require it. They usually end up in
              court.

              Jamie
            • James Kirchner
              ... No, it doesn t. The problem is that we don t have a term for forced, inflexible flex time. The only way to express it is to say, They re making me work
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 1, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:58 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                > Waita minute: "Work extra hours" may simply mean work more than
                > expected/required, as in when there's lots of orders in a business
                > in a busy period, or when someone does extra shifts because they
                > need extra money - it doesn't always mean that they will get the
                > corresponding time off later - or does it?
                >

                No, it doesn't. The problem is that we don't have a term for forced,
                inflexible flex time.

                The only way to express it is to say, "They're making me work extra
                hours, but they'll give me extra time off later," or, "I have to work
                extra hours, but my employer is giving me comp time later," or
                something to that effect.

                Jamie
              • Matej Klimes
                Yeah, that s clear and it s what nadpracovat means, only nadpracovat is usually voluntary. I still think I must have heard people talk about extra hours
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 1, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Yeah, that's clear and it's what nadpracovat means, only nadpracovat is usually voluntary. I still think I must have heard people talk about extra hours without it meaning any compensation later, just working more.. If I wanted it to be clear, I would use not extra hours on its own...

                  Another reason why I don't like it for nadpracovat is that your examples sound like it's a regular thing, someone's "forced to" work longer and then given some sort of compensation, in time or money, but nadpracovat - especially in your example - means "to be able to work longer and then take the corresponding time off" - it's done because the worker wants it and because it suits them and the boss is being nice to allow it.. hope I'm being clear...

                  I don't think it should be a problem to say something along the lines of "some, especially blue collar workers like to me their workhours more flexible by working extra time on certain days and then taking the corresponding time off when they need to" - I haven't even looked at your example now to see if it fits 100%, but that's how it sounded to me when I first read it and that's how it works.. it seemed like a semi-informal report or presentation where this type of sentence would sound Ok and would be easier to understand than trying to come up with an official-sounding one or two word term - just my 2 c's :)

                  M


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: James Kirchner
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:12 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: nadpracovat



                  On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:58 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                  > Waita minute: "Work extra hours" may simply mean work more than
                  > expected/required, as in when there's lots of orders in a business
                  > in a busy period, or when someone does extra shifts because they
                  > need extra money - it doesn't always mean that they will get the
                  > corresponding time off later - or does it?
                  >

                  No, it doesn't. The problem is that we don't have a term for forced,
                  inflexible flex time.

                  The only way to express it is to say, "They're making me work extra
                  hours, but they'll give me extra time off later," or, "I have to work
                  extra hours, but my employer is giving me comp time later," or
                  something to that effect.

                  Jamie





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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