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Prava/neprava retroaktivita

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  • coilinoc
    Hi there, Has anyone ever come across this concept before? I have a few hits for correct/incorrect retroactivity and even fewer for strong/weak
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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      Hi there,
      Has anyone ever come across this concept before? I have a few hits
      for "correct/incorrect retroactivity" and even fewer
      for "strong/weak retroactivity" but nothing really convinces:

      CONTEXT

      Pravni vìda rozeznava retroaktivitu pravou a retroaktivitu
      nepravou. Prava retroaktivita zahrnuje pripady, kdy pravní norma
      reglementuje i vznik pravniho vztahu a naroky z neho vzesle pred
      jeji ucinnosti. Neprava retroaktivita spociva v tom, ze pravní
      vztahy hmotneho i procesniho prava, ktere vznikly za platnosti prava
      stareho, se spravuji zasadne timto pravem, a to az do doby ucinnosti
      prava noveho; po jeho ucinnosti se vsak ridí pravem novym. Tato
      zasada vsak plati jen potud, pokud ostatníi zaverecna ustanoveni
      pravní normy nestanovi se zretelem na zvlastnosti nekterych pravnich
      vztahu neco jineho.

      MTIA for any suggestions

      Coilin
    • meluzina_x
      try googling retroactivity and non-retroactivity take a look at this (and yes it is a foreign source, but google finds references even from the
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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        try googling "retroactivity" and "non-retroactivity"


        take a look at this (and yes it is a "foreign" source, but google
        finds references even from the "english-speaking world"): (source:
        www.toki.se/paper%20files/legal%20certainty.pdf )

        Retroactivity can be defined in three ways. First we have true
        retroactivity, "consists in the
        application of a new rule of law to an act or transaction which was
        completed before the rule was
        promulgated".

        The third and most common definition of retroactivity is
        non-retroactivity that prevents a
        measure from taking effect before its publication (true retroactivity).


        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "coilinoc" <coilinoc@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi there,
        > Has anyone ever come across this concept before? I have a few hits
        > for "correct/incorrect retroactivity" and even fewer
        > for "strong/weak retroactivity" but nothing really convinces:
        >
        > CONTEXT
        >
        > Pravni vìda rozeznava retroaktivitu pravou a retroaktivitu
        > nepravou. Prava retroaktivita zahrnuje pripady, kdy pravní norma
        > reglementuje i vznik pravniho vztahu a naroky z neho vzesle pred
        > jeji ucinnosti. Neprava retroaktivita spociva v tom, ze pravní
        > vztahy hmotneho i procesniho prava, ktere vznikly za platnosti prava
        > stareho, se spravuji zasadne timto pravem, a to az do doby ucinnosti
        > prava noveho; po jeho ucinnosti se vsak ridí pravem novym. Tato
        > zasada vsak plati jen potud, pokud ostatníi zaverecna ustanoveni
        > pravní normy nestanovi se zretelem na zvlastnosti nekterych pravnich
        > vztahu neco jineho.
        >
        > MTIA for any suggestions
        >
        > Coilin
        >
      • meluzina_x
        actually, this might have better descriptions buried in its depths: http://www.unbf.ca/clubs/lss/course_notes/legislation_dore2.doc and covers the in-between
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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          actually, this might have better descriptions buried in its depths:

          http://www.unbf.ca/clubs/lss/course_notes/legislation_dore2.doc

          and covers the "in-between" - which seems to be what you actually need

          (i'm just guessing btw - sort of a break during a very boring contract)

          veronika
          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "meluzina_x" <meluzinax@...> wrote:
          >
          > try googling "retroactivity" and "non-retroactivity"
          >
          >
          > take a look at this (and yes it is a "foreign" source, but google
          > finds references even from the "english-speaking world"): (source:
          > www.toki.se/paper%20files/legal%20certainty.pdf )
          >
          > Retroactivity can be defined in three ways. First we have true
          > retroactivity, "consists in the
          > application of a new rule of law to an act or transaction which was
          > completed before the rule was
          > promulgated".
          >
          > The third and most common definition of retroactivity is
          > non-retroactivity that prevents a
          > measure from taking effect before its publication (true retroactivity).
          >
          >
          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "coilinoc" <coilinoc@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi there,
          > > Has anyone ever come across this concept before? I have a few hits
          > > for "correct/incorrect retroactivity" and even fewer
          > > for "strong/weak retroactivity" but nothing really convinces:
          > >
          > > CONTEXT
          > >
          > > Pravni vìda rozeznava retroaktivitu pravou a retroaktivitu
          > > nepravou. Prava retroaktivita zahrnuje pripady, kdy pravní norma
          > > reglementuje i vznik pravniho vztahu a naroky z neho vzesle pred
          > > jeji ucinnosti. Neprava retroaktivita spociva v tom, ze pravní
          > > vztahy hmotneho i procesniho prava, ktere vznikly za platnosti prava
          > > stareho, se spravuji zasadne timto pravem, a to az do doby ucinnosti
          > > prava noveho; po jeho ucinnosti se vsak ridí pravem novym. Tato
          > > zasada vsak plati jen potud, pokud ostatníi zaverecna ustanoveni
          > > pravní normy nestanovi se zretelem na zvlastnosti nekterych pravnich
          > > vztahu neco jineho.
          > >
          > > MTIA for any suggestions
          > >
          > > Coilin
          > >
          >
        • Michael Trittipo
          ... The concepts are familiar enough.* I wonder whether this might not be an instance for changing word class, i.e., instead of using adjective+noun using
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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            coilinoc wrote:
            > Has anyone ever come across this concept before? I have a few hits
            > for "correct/incorrect retroactivity" and even fewer
            > for "strong/weak retroactivity" but nothing really convinces:
            >
            > Pravni vìda rozeznava retroaktivitu pravou a retroaktivitu
            > nepravou. Prava retroaktivita [je špatná}. Neprava retroaktivita ...
            > [je přijatelná].

            The concepts are familiar enough.* I wonder whether this might not
            be an instance for changing word class, i.e., instead of using
            adjective+noun using adverb+adjective (where possible). That is,
            instead of saying that something shows "true retroactivity," saying
            that it would be "truly retroactive"; and instead of saying that
            something else shows only apparent or illusory retroactivity, saying
            that it is "not truly retroactive." Otherwise, you're left with
            choosing something like "genuine," or "real," or "true"
            retroactivity versus something like "false" or "merely seeming" or
            "only apparent" or "superficial" retroactivity. One trick for
            changing grammatical class for a reified subject is to write "to be
            truly retroactive means" instead of "true retroactivity means."

            Just an idea.


            * Meaning the issue arises often. The word "retroactive" has been
            used in 541 decisions of the Minnesota appellate courts since 1996.
            Even discounting some uses not dealing with retrospective
            legislation or rule-making, that's still a decent number.
          • James Kirchner
            Folks -- I ve got an instruction manual here -- but no diagrams -- for an electric home barbecue grill. Without diagrams, I need advice on the following parts
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 11, 2008
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              Folks --

              I've got an instruction manual here -- but no diagrams -- for an
              electric home barbecue grill.

              Without diagrams, I need advice on the following parts of the grill.
              I can think of the English terms myself, but I just need to know what
              these things are. Here goes:

              plotynka -- This is obviously some kind of cooking surface, but I
              can't tell if it's the bars (i.e., the grill proper) or some kind of
              plate. Google images is showing me a plate. The text seems to be
              distinguishing between this plotynka an the mrize. They seem to be
              what we call burners when they're on stoves.

              panvicky -- You can cook in these too, but they're obviously some kind
              of pan or tub. Maybe just "pans" will do?

              Thanks for any suggestions.

              Jamie
            • Jirka Bolech
              ... This should be a plate . Usually a part of stove or cooker that you put containers on to cook (boil, fry...). ... Pans might do. The word is obviously s
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 11, 2008
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                Hi Jamie:

                > plotynka

                This should be a 'plate'. Usually a part of stove or cooker that you put
                containers on to cook (boil, fry...).

                > panvicky

                'Pans' might do. The word is obviously s diminutive, so they are small pans
                to make small kinds of pancake. Perhaps you can makes eggs sunny side up on
                them too...

                Jirka Bolech
              • Matej Klimes
                This sounds like a serious grilling machine, Jamie... I would think the grill has a selection of cooking surfaces - a plate, perhaps a lava stone or similar,
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 11, 2008
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                  This sounds like a serious grilling machine, Jamie...

                  I would think the grill has a selection of cooking surfaces - a plate, perhaps a lava stone or similar, the "mrize" and a shallow steel sheeting pan similar to what you find on public grilling places in parks (they have those in Australia, the barbie nation, they are gas-powered, coin-operated and the top surface is usually stainless steel, about 1-2 cm deep pan)...

                  Did you try looking at the manufacturer/suppier's website?

                  M




                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: James Kirchner
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:04 AM
                  Subject: [Czechlist] Grill terms


                  Folks --

                  I've got an instruction manual here -- but no diagrams -- for an
                  electric home barbecue grill.

                  Without diagrams, I need advice on the following parts of the grill.
                  I can think of the English terms myself, but I just need to know what
                  these things are. Here goes:

                  plotynka -- This is obviously some kind of cooking surface, but I
                  can't tell if it's the bars (i.e., the grill proper) or some kind of
                  plate. Google images is showing me a plate. The text seems to be
                  distinguishing between this plotynka an the mrize. They seem to be
                  what we call burners when they're on stoves.

                  panvicky -- You can cook in these too, but they're obviously some kind
                  of pan or tub. Maybe just "pans" will do?

                  Thanks for any suggestions.

                  Jamie





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • James Kirchner
                  Thanks, Jirka. So my suspicion that the plotynky are burners is borne out, at least in your opinion. I wonder where the grill itself is. Gee, I wish I had a
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 11, 2008
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                    Thanks, Jirka.

                    So my suspicion that the plotynky are burners is borne out, at least
                    in your opinion.

                    I wonder where the grill itself is. Gee, I wish I had a diagram.

                    Jamie

                    On Aug 11, 2008, at 5:20 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                    > Hi Jamie:
                    >
                    > > plotynka
                    >
                    > This should be a 'plate'. Usually a part of stove or cooker that you
                    > put
                    > containers on to cook (boil, fry...).
                    >
                    > > panvicky
                    >
                    > 'Pans' might do. The word is obviously s diminutive, so they are
                    > small pans
                    > to make small kinds of pancake. Perhaps you can makes eggs sunny
                    > side up on
                    > them too...
                    >
                    > Jirka Bolech
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Alena Rysková 2e
                    IMHO, plotynka is a plate, mrizka is bars, panvicky pans. Something like that shown on http://www.grily-grilovani.cz/elektricke-grily/gril-raclette; there is a
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 11, 2008
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                      IMHO,
                      plotynka is a plate, mrizka is bars, panvicky pans.
                      Something like that shown on http://www.grily-grilovani.cz/elektricke-grily/gril-raclette; there is a hot plate and pans, but instead of bars there is a "stone board"
                      Alena

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: James Kirchner
                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:04 AM
                      Subject: [Czechlist] Grill terms


                      Folks --

                      I've got an instruction manual here -- but no diagrams -- for an
                      electric home barbecue grill.

                      Without diagrams, I need advice on the following parts of the grill.
                      I can think of the English terms myself, but I just need to know what
                      these things are. Here goes:

                      plotynka -- This is obviously some kind of cooking surface, but I
                      can't tell if it's the bars (i.e., the grill proper) or some kind of
                      plate. Google images is showing me a plate. The text seems to be
                      distinguishing between this plotynka an the mrize. They seem to be
                      what we call burners when they're on stoves.

                      panvicky -- You can cook in these too, but they're obviously some kind
                      of pan or tub. Maybe just "pans" will do?

                      Thanks for any suggestions.

                      Jamie





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • James Kirchner
                      So what would the British call the part of the stove that we call the burners ? Like here:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 11, 2008
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                        So what would the British call the part of the stove that we call the
                        "burners"? Like here:

                        http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-15468792.jpg?size=572&uid=%7B3250EE2C-0D66-48FB-96DC-E9A65022A343%7D

                        and here:

                        http://www.lpappliances.com/images/Verona/24SIDE.jpg

                        Yes, this grill also has a stone plate. All the stuff you mentioned.

                        I've tried looking at the manufacturer's website, but I'm apparently
                        dealing with appliances that are not on the market yet, and the site
                        shows nothing comparable.

                        Jamie

                        On Aug 11, 2008, at 5:20 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                        > This sounds like a serious grilling machine, Jamie...
                        >
                        > I would think the grill has a selection of cooking surfaces - a
                        > plate, perhaps a lava stone or similar, the "mrize" and a shallow
                        > steel sheeting pan similar to what you find on public grilling
                        > places in parks (they have those in Australia, the barbie nation,
                        > they are gas-powered, coin-operated and the top surface is usually
                        > stainless steel, about 1-2 cm deep pan)...
                        >
                        > Did you try looking at the manufacturer/suppier's website?
                        >
                        > M
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: James Kirchner
                        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:04 AM
                        > Subject: [Czechlist] Grill terms
                        >
                        > Folks --
                        >
                        > I've got an instruction manual here -- but no diagrams -- for an
                        > electric home barbecue grill.
                        >
                        > Without diagrams, I need advice on the following parts of the grill.
                        > I can think of the English terms myself, but I just need to know what
                        > these things are. Here goes:
                        >
                        > plotynka -- This is obviously some kind of cooking surface, but I
                        > can't tell if it's the bars (i.e., the grill proper) or some kind of
                        > plate. Google images is showing me a plate. The text seems to be
                        > distinguishing between this plotynka an the mrize. They seem to be
                        > what we call burners when they're on stoves.
                        >
                        > panvicky -- You can cook in these too, but they're obviously some kind
                        > of pan or tub. Maybe just "pans" will do?
                        >
                        > Thanks for any suggestions.
                        >
                        > Jamie
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • James Kirchner
                        Thanks, Alena. I m looking at a competitor s UK site, and it appears that these plotynky would also be called burners in the UK, so burners it is. Thanks very
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 11, 2008
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                          Thanks, Alena.

                          I'm looking at a competitor's UK site, and it appears that these
                          plotynky would also be called burners in the UK, so burners it is.

                          Thanks very much to everybody.

                          Jamie

                          On Aug 11, 2008, at 5:27 AM, Alena Rysková 2e wrote:

                          > IMHO,
                          > plotynka is a plate, mrizka is bars, panvicky pans.
                          > Something like that shown on http://www.grily-grilovani.cz/elektricke-grily/gril-raclette
                          > ; there is a hot plate and pans, but instead of bars there is a
                          > "stone board"
                          > Alena
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: James Kirchner
                          > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:04 AM
                          > Subject: [Czechlist] Grill terms
                          >
                          > Folks --
                          >
                          > I've got an instruction manual here -- but no diagrams -- for an
                          > electric home barbecue grill.
                          >
                          > Without diagrams, I need advice on the following parts of the grill.
                          > I can think of the English terms myself, but I just need to know what
                          > these things are. Here goes:
                          >
                          > plotynka -- This is obviously some kind of cooking surface, but I
                          > can't tell if it's the bars (i.e., the grill proper) or some kind of
                          > plate. Google images is showing me a plate. The text seems to be
                          > distinguishing between this plotynka an the mrize. They seem to be
                          > what we call burners when they're on stoves.
                          >
                          > panvicky -- You can cook in these too, but they're obviously some kind
                          > of pan or tub. Maybe just "pans" will do?
                          >
                          > Thanks for any suggestions.
                          >
                          > Jamie
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jennifer Hejtmánková
                          Yes, there are many grills these days that have a gas stove-type burner on the site for keeping sauces, etc warm. Jennifer ... [Non-text portions of this
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 11, 2008
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                            Yes, there are many grills these days that have a gas stove-type
                            burner on the site for keeping sauces, etc warm.

                            Jennifer

                            On 11.8.2008, at 11:37, James Kirchner wrote:

                            > Thanks, Alena.
                            >
                            > I'm looking at a competitor's UK site, and it appears that these
                            > plotynky would also be called burners in the UK, so burners it is.
                            >
                            > Thanks very much to everybody.
                            >
                            > Jamie
                            >
                            > On Aug 11, 2008, at 5:27 AM, Alena Rysková 2e wrote:
                            >
                            > > IMHO,
                            > > plotynka is a plate, mrizka is bars, panvicky pans.
                            > > Something like that shown on http://www.grily-grilovani.cz/elektricke-grily/gril-raclette
                            > > ; there is a hot plate and pans, but instead of bars there is a
                            > > "stone board"
                            > > Alena
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: James Kirchner
                            > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:04 AM
                            > > Subject: [Czechlist] Grill terms
                            > >
                            > > Folks --
                            > >
                            > > I've got an instruction manual here -- but no diagrams -- for an
                            > > electric home barbecue grill.
                            > >
                            > > Without diagrams, I need advice on the following parts of the grill.
                            > > I can think of the English terms myself, but I just need to know
                            > what
                            > > these things are. Here goes:
                            > >
                            > > plotynka -- This is obviously some kind of cooking surface, but I
                            > > can't tell if it's the bars (i.e., the grill proper) or some kind of
                            > > plate. Google images is showing me a plate. The text seems to be
                            > > distinguishing between this plotynka an the mrize. They seem to be
                            > > what we call burners when they're on stoves.
                            > >
                            > > panvicky -- You can cook in these too, but they're obviously some
                            > kind
                            > > of pan or tub. Maybe just "pans" will do?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks for any suggestions.
                            > >
                            > > Jamie
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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