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Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod (zakona)

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  • meluzina_x
    Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou thread vytahla, je, ze nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil section subsection na article paragraph - a obracene take.
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
      nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
      "paragraph" - a obracene take.

      Podle toho co jsem nasla na
      http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy.pdf,

      paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
      zakonech...

      jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...

      http://ec.europa.eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs.pdf

      anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf

      podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
      asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
      anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".

      Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(

      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ahoj Jirko,
      >
      > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
      > clanek = article
      > paragraf = section
      > odstavec = subsection
      > pismeno = paragraph
      > bod = subparagraph
      >
      > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
      nejak se
      > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
      >
      > sarka
      >
      > -------Original Message-------
      >
      > From: meluzina_x
      > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
      > (zakona)
      >
      > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
      > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
      > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
      >
      > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
      > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
      > into English, not vice versa).
      >
      > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
      > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
      >
      > This link:
      >
      http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
      > pdf
      >
      > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
      >
      > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
      > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
      > discussed in this thread.
      >
      > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
      > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
      > level):
      >
      > Cast
      > Hlava
      > Dil
      > Oddil
      > Pododdil
      > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
      > which use Clanek for this level)
      > Odstavec
      > Pododstavec
      > Bod
      >
      > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
      following:
      >
      > Part Část
      > Title Hlava
      > Chapter Díl
      > Section Oddíl
      > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
      > Paragraph Odstavec
      > Subparagraph Pododstavec
      > Point Bod
      >
      > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
      > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
      > docs that use it.)
      >
      > Thanks in advance.
      >
      > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
      > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
      > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Veronika
      >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
      > > > On Behalf
      > > > Of Jirka Bolech
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
      > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
      > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
      > > > (zakona)
      > > >
      > > > Hi there,
      > > >
      > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
      > > > the texts
      > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
      > > > suppose
      > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
      > > > "odstavec"
      > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
      simply
      > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
      > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
      > > > English-speaking countries?
      > > >
      > > > Jirka Bolech
      > > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Šárka Rubková
      Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich, predpisech, smernicich. Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
        predpisech, smernicich.
        Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach, smernicich,
        narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.

        Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v odkazu,
        ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
        Sarka

        -------Original Message-------

        From: meluzina_x
        Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
        (zakona)

        Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
        nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
        "paragraph" - a obracene take.

        Podle toho co jsem nasla na
        http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
        pdf,

        paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
        zakonech...

        jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...

        http://ec.europa
        eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
        pdf

        anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf

        podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
        asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
        anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".

        Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(

        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ahoj Jirko,
        >
        > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
        > clanek = article
        > paragraf = section
        > odstavec = subsection
        > pismeno = paragraph
        > bod = subparagraph
        >
        > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
        nejak se
        > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
        >
        > sarka
        >
        > -------Original Message-------
        >
        > From: meluzina_x
        > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
        > (zakona)
        >
        > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
        > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
        > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
        >
        > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
        > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
        > into English, not vice versa).
        >
        > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
        > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
        >
        > This link:
        >
        http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
        > pdf
        >
        > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
        >
        > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
        > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
        > discussed in this thread.
        >
        > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
        > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
        > level):
        >
        > Cast
        > Hlava
        > Dil
        > Oddil
        > Pododdil
        > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
        > which use Clanek for this level)
        > Odstavec
        > Pododstavec
        > Bod
        >
        > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
        following:
        >
        > Part Část
        > Title Hlava
        > Chapter Díl
        > Section Oddíl
        > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
        > Paragraph Odstavec
        > Subparagraph Pododstavec
        > Point Bod
        >
        > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
        > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
        > docs that use it.)
        >
        > Thanks in advance.
        >
        > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
        > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
        > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Veronika
        >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
        > > > On Behalf
        > > > Of Jirka Bolech
        > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
        > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
        > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
        > > > (zakona)
        > > >
        > > > Hi there,
        > > >
        > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
        > > > the texts
        > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
        > > > suppose
        > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
        > > > "odstavec"
        > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
        simply
        > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
        > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
        > > > English-speaking countries?
        > > >
        > > > Jirka Bolech
        > > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Josef Hlavac
        Zdravim vespolek, ono asi nejvic zalezi na tom, pro koho je preklad urcen - kazdy zakaznik ma jina pravidla... Josef
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Zdravim vespolek,

          ono asi nejvic zalezi na tom, pro koho je preklad urcen - kazdy zakaznik
          ma jina pravidla...

          Josef


          meluzina_x wrote:
          > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
          > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
          > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
          >
          > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
          > http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy.pdf,
          >
          > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
          > zakonech...
          >
          > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
          >
          > http://ec.europa.eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs.pdf
          >
          > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
          >
          > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
          > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
          > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
          >
          > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
          >
          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
          >> Ahoj Jirko,
          >>
          >> ja to prekladam nasledovne:
          >> clanek = article
          >> paragraf = section
          >> odstavec = subsection
          >> pismeno = paragraph
          >> bod = subparagraph
          >>
          >> Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
          > nejak se
          >> doslo k tomuhle reseni.
          >>
          >> sarka
          >>
          >> -------Original Message-------
          >>
          >> From: meluzina_x
          >> Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
          >> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          >> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
          >> (zakona)
          >>
          >> I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
          >> specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
          >> apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
          >>
          >> I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
          >> legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
          >> into English, not vice versa).
          >>
          >> This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
          >> good definition of the structure used within the EU.
          >>
          >> This link:
          >>
          > http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
          >> pdf
          >>
          >> is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
          >>
          >> Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
          >> structure that is slightly different from what was originally
          >> discussed in this thread.
          >>
          >> Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
          >> legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
          >> level):
          >>
          >> Cast
          >> Hlava
          >> Dil
          >> Oddil
          >> Pododdil
          >> Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
          >> which use Clanek for this level)
          >> Odstavec
          >> Pododstavec
          >> Bod
          >>
          >> Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
          > following:
          >> Part Část
          >> Title Hlava
          >> Chapter Díl
          >> Section Oddíl
          >> Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
          >> Paragraph Odstavec
          >> Subparagraph Pododstavec
          >> Point Bod
          >>
          >> Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
          >> no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
          >> docs that use it.)
          >>
          >> Thanks in advance.
          >>
          >> P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
          >> this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
          >> e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
          >>
          >> Regards,
          >>
          >> Veronika
          >>
          >>>>
          >>>> -----Original Message-----
          >>>> From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
          >>>> On Behalf
          >>>> Of Jirka Bolech
          >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
          >>>> To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
          >>>> Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
          >>>> (zakona)
          >>>>
          >>>> Hi there,
          >>>>
          >>>> It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
          >>>> the texts
          >>>> are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
          >>>> suppose
          >>>> "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
          >>>> "odstavec"
          >>>> as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
          > simply
          >>>> 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
          >>>> translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
          >>>> English-speaking countries?
          >>>>
          >>>> Jirka Bolech
          >>>>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Translators' tricks of the trade:
          > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • meluzina_x
          Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:) Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny,
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
            zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

            Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
            pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
            vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
            urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

            take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
            mozna vypada :)


            A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
            Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

            Veronika




            (19
            Čl. 26
            Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a novely,
            na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

            ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

            Čl. 27
            Členění ústavního zákona
            (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou „Čl."
            a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed.
            Čísla se u zkratky „Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí, například:

            a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

            Čl. 28
            Členění novely
            (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou „Čl." a římským
            číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed; čísla se u
            zkratky „Čl."
            uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.






            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
            >
            > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
            > predpisech, smernicich.
            > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
            smernicich,
            > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
            >
            > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
            odkazu,
            > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
            > Sarka
            >
            > -------Original Message-------
            >
            > From: meluzina_x
            > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
            > (zakona)
            >
            > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
            > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
            > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
            >
            > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
            >
            http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
            > pdf,
            >
            > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
            > zakonech...
            >
            > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
            >
            > http://ec.europa
            >
            eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
            > pdf
            >
            > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
            >
            > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
            > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
            > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
            >
            > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
            >
            > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Ahoj Jirko,
            > >
            > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
            > > clanek = article
            > > paragraf = section
            > > odstavec = subsection
            > > pismeno = paragraph
            > > bod = subparagraph
            > >
            > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
            > nejak se
            > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
            > >
            > > sarka
            > >
            > > -------Original Message-------
            > >
            > > From: meluzina_x
            > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
            > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
            pismeno, bod
            > > (zakona)
            > >
            > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
            > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
            > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
            > >
            > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
            > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
            > > into English, not vice versa).
            > >
            > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
            > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
            > >
            > > This link:
            > >
            >
            http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
            > > pdf
            > >
            > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
            > >
            > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
            > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
            > > discussed in this thread.
            > >
            > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
            > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
            > > level):
            > >
            > > Cast
            > > Hlava
            > > Dil
            > > Oddil
            > > Pododdil
            > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
            > > which use Clanek for this level)
            > > Odstavec
            > > Pododstavec
            > > Bod
            > >
            > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
            > following:
            > >
            > > Part Část
            > > Title Hlava
            > > Chapter Díl
            > > Section Oddíl
            > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
            > > Paragraph Odstavec
            > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
            > > Point Bod
            > >
            > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
            > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
            > > docs that use it.)
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance.
            > >
            > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
            > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
            > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > >
            > > Veronika
            > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
            > > > > On Behalf
            > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
            > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
            > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
            > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
            pismeno, bod
            > > > > (zakona)
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi there,
            > > > >
            > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
            > > > > the texts
            > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
            box. I
            > > > > suppose
            > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
            > > > > "odstavec"
            > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
            > simply
            > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
            > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
            > > > > English-speaking countries?
            > > > >
            > > > > Jirka Bolech
            > > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Matej Klimes
            Nevim jak ostatni, ale ja pri prekladech zakunu do A pouzivam paragraf jako Section a clanek (2.1. atd.) jako Article - tak mi to kdysi vysvetlili experti a
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Nevim jak ostatni, ale ja pri prekladech zakunu do A pouzivam paragraf jako Section a clanek (2.1. atd.) jako Article - tak mi to kdysi vysvetlili experti a tak jsem to mockrat videl, tak to tak delam, ono nejvic zalezi na tom, aby to bylo logicke a konzistentni...

              M


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: meluzina_x
              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM
              Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod (zakona)


              Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
              zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

              Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
              pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
              vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
              urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

              take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
              mozna vypada :)

              A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
              Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

              Veronika

              (19
              Čl. 26
              Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a novely,
              na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

              ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

              Čl. 27
              Členění ústavního zákona
              (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou "Čl."
              a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed.
              Čísla se u zkratky "Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí, například:

              a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

              Čl. 28
              Členění novely
              (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou "Čl." a římským
              číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed; čísla se u
              zkratky "Čl."
              uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.

              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
              >
              > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
              > predpisech, smernicich.
              > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
              smernicich,
              > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
              >
              > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
              odkazu,
              > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
              > Sarka
              >
              > -------Original Message-------
              >
              > From: meluzina_x
              > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
              > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
              > (zakona)
              >
              > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
              > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
              > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
              >
              > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
              >
              http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
              > pdf,
              >
              > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
              > zakonech...
              >
              > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
              >
              > http://ec.europa
              >
              eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
              > pdf
              >
              > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
              >
              > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
              > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
              > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
              >
              > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
              >
              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Ahoj Jirko,
              > >
              > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
              > > clanek = article
              > > paragraf = section
              > > odstavec = subsection
              > > pismeno = paragraph
              > > bod = subparagraph
              > >
              > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
              > nejak se
              > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
              > >
              > > sarka
              > >
              > > -------Original Message-------
              > >
              > > From: meluzina_x
              > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
              > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
              pismeno, bod
              > > (zakona)
              > >
              > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
              > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
              > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
              > >
              > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
              > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
              > > into English, not vice versa).
              > >
              > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
              > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
              > >
              > > This link:
              > >
              >
              http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
              > > pdf
              > >
              > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
              > >
              > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
              > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
              > > discussed in this thread.
              > >
              > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
              > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
              > > level):
              > >
              > > Cast
              > > Hlava
              > > Dil
              > > Oddil
              > > Pododdil
              > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
              > > which use Clanek for this level)
              > > Odstavec
              > > Pododstavec
              > > Bod
              > >
              > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
              > following:
              > >
              > > Part Část
              > > Title Hlava
              > > Chapter Díl
              > > Section Oddíl
              > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
              > > Paragraph Odstavec
              > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
              > > Point Bod
              > >
              > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
              > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
              > > docs that use it.)
              > >
              > > Thanks in advance.
              > >
              > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
              > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
              > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > >
              > > Veronika
              > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
              > > > > On Behalf
              > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
              > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
              > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
              > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
              pismeno, bod
              > > > > (zakona)
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi there,
              > > > >
              > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
              > > > > the texts
              > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
              box. I
              > > > > suppose
              > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
              > > > > "odstavec"
              > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
              > simply
              > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
              > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
              > > > > English-speaking countries?
              > > > >
              > > > > Jirka Bolech
              > > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Josef Hlavac
              Dobry den Veroniko, ... To bych nerekl. Existuji pravidla, jak se pise legislativa EU, a take existuji pravidla, jak se pise ceska legislativa. Ale tato
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Dobry den Veroniko,

                > Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                > pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se

                To bych nerekl. Existuji pravidla, jak se pise legislativa EU, a take
                existuji pravidla, jak se pise ceska legislativa. Ale tato pravidla na
                sobe nezavisi.

                Proto taky evropske predpisy, i kdyz vychazeji v uredni ceske verzi,
                vypadaji jinak (maji jinou strukturu) nez ceske predpisy. A proto resime
                tento problem - nejde jednoduse a primocare "napasovat" evropskou
                sablonu na ceske predpisy.

                Takze asi neni jina cesta nez zvolit nejake kompromisni reseni.
                Paragrafu se obvykle rika section, tak oddilu by mozna slo rikat chapter.

                Proto taky rikam, ze zalezi na zakaznikovi - pokud ma nejakou tabulku,
                pouzijte ji, pokud ne, nejake schema si vymyslete a drzte se ho :)

                Josef

                meluzina_x wrote:
                > Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                > zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)
                >
                > Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                > pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                > vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                > urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)
                >
                > take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                > mozna vypada :)
                >
                >
                > A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                > Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).
                >
                > Veronika
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > (19
                > Čl. 26
                > Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a novely,
                > na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )
                >
                > ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:
                >
                > Čl. 27
                > Členění ústavního zákona
                > (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou „Čl."
                > a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed.
                > Čísla se u zkratky „Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí, například:
                >
                > a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.
                >
                > Čl. 28
                > Členění novely
                > (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou „Čl." a římským
                > číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed; čísla se u
                > zkratky „Čl."
                > uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                >> Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                >> predpisech, smernicich.
                >> Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                > smernicich,
                >> narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                >>
                >> Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                > odkazu,
                >> ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                >> Sarka
                >>
                >> -------Original Message-------
                >>
                >> From: meluzina_x
                >> Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                >> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                >> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                >> (zakona)
                >>
                >> Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                >> nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                >> "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                >>
                >> Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                >>
                > http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                >> pdf,
                >>
                >> paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                >> zakonech...
                >>
                >> jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                >>
                >> http://ec.europa
                >>
                > eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                >> pdf
                >>
                >> anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                >>
                >> podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                >> asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                >> anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                >>
                >> Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                >>
                >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                >>> Ahoj Jirko,
                >>>
                >>> ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                >>> clanek = article
                >>> paragraf = section
                >>> odstavec = subsection
                >>> pismeno = paragraph
                >>> bod = subparagraph
                >>>
                >>> Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                >> nejak se
                >>> doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                >>>
                >>> sarka
                >>>
                >>> -------Original Message-------
                >>>
                >>> From: meluzina_x
                >>> Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                >>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                >>> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                > pismeno, bod
                >>> (zakona)
                >>>
                >>> I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                >>> specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                >>> apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                >>>
                >>> I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                >>> legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                >>> into English, not vice versa).
                >>>
                >>> This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                >>> good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                >>>
                >>> This link:
                >>>
                > http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                >>> pdf
                >>>
                >>> is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                >>>
                >>> Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                >>> structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                >>> discussed in this thread.
                >>>
                >>> Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                >>> legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                >>> level):
                >>>
                >>> Cast
                >>> Hlava
                >>> Dil
                >>> Oddil
                >>> Pododdil
                >>> Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                >>> which use Clanek for this level)
                >>> Odstavec
                >>> Pododstavec
                >>> Bod
                >>>
                >>> Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                >> following:
                >>> Part Část
                >>> Title Hlava
                >>> Chapter Díl
                >>> Section Oddíl
                >>> Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                >>> Paragraph Odstavec
                >>> Subparagraph Pododstavec
                >>> Point Bod
                >>>
                >>> Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                >>> no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                >>> docs that use it.)
                >>>
                >>> Thanks in advance.
                >>>
                >>> P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                >>> this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                >>> e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                >>>
                >>> Regards,
                >>>
                >>> Veronika
                >>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>> -----Original Message-----
                >>>>> From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                >>>>> On Behalf
                >>>>> Of Jirka Bolech
                >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                >>>>> To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                >>>>> Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                > pismeno, bod
                >>>>> (zakona)
                >>>>>
                >>>>> Hi there,
                >>>>>
                >>>>> It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                >>>>> the texts
                >>>>> are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                > box. I
                >>>>> suppose
                >>>>> "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                >>>>> "odstavec"
                >>>>> as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                >> simply
                >>>>> 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                >>>>> translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                >>>>> English-speaking countries?
                >>>>>
                >>>>> Jirka Bolech
                >>>>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Šárka Rubková
                Ja myslim ten odkaz na EU pravidla. ten se v podstate zakonu netyka, hovori se tam o pravnich aktech, vyslovne se mluvi o mezinarodnich smlouvach, smernicich,
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ja myslim ten odkaz na EU pravidla. ten se v podstate zakonu netyka, hovori
                  se tam o pravnich aktech, vyslovne se mluvi o mezinarodnich smlouvach,
                  smernicich, narizenich, rozhodnutich na urovni EU, coz jsou vsechno pravni
                  akty a, pravda, o ustave.

                  Zakony jednotlivych zemi nepodlehaji nomenklature EU. Rozhodne bych ji do
                  prekladu ceskeho zakona netahala.

                  Sarka




                  -------Original Message-------

                  From: meluzina_x
                  Date: 6.8.2008 12:03:09
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                  (zakona)

                  Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                  zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

                  Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                  pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                  vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                  urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

                  take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                  mozna vypada :)

                  A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                  Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

                  Veronika

                  (19
                  Čl. 26
                  Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a
                  novely,
                  na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

                  ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

                  Čl. 27
                  Členění ústavního zákona
                  (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                  zkratkou „Čl."
                  a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem č
                  lánku uprostřed.
                  Čísla se u zkratky „Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí,
                  například:

                  a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

                  Čl. 28
                  Členění novely
                  (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                  zkratkou „Čl." a římským
                  číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku
                  uprostřed; čísla se u
                  zkratky „Čl."
                  uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.

                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                  > predpisech, smernicich.
                  > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                  smernicich,
                  > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                  >
                  > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                  odkazu,
                  > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                  > Sarka
                  >
                  > -------Original Message-------
                  >
                  > From: meluzina_x
                  > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                  > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                  > (zakona)
                  >
                  > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                  > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                  > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                  >
                  > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                  >
                  http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                  > pdf,
                  >
                  > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                  > zakonech...
                  >
                  > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                  >
                  > http://ec.europa
                  >
                  eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                  > pdf
                  >
                  > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                  >
                  > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                  > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                  > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                  >
                  > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                  >
                  > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Ahoj Jirko,
                  > >
                  > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                  > > clanek = article
                  > > paragraf = section
                  > > odstavec = subsection
                  > > pismeno = paragraph
                  > > bod = subparagraph
                  > >
                  > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                  > nejak se
                  > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                  > >
                  > > sarka
                  > >
                  > > -------Original Message-------
                  > >
                  > > From: meluzina_x
                  > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                  > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                  pismeno, bod
                  > > (zakona)
                  > >
                  > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                  > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                  > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                  > >
                  > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                  > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                  > > into English, not vice versa).
                  > >
                  > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                  > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                  > >
                  > > This link:
                  > >
                  >
                  http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                  > > pdf
                  > >
                  > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                  > >
                  > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                  > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                  > > discussed in this thread.
                  > >
                  > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                  > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                  > > level):
                  > >
                  > > Cast
                  > > Hlava
                  > > Dil
                  > > Oddil
                  > > Pododdil
                  > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                  > > which use Clanek for this level)
                  > > Odstavec
                  > > Pododstavec
                  > > Bod
                  > >
                  > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                  > following:
                  > >
                  > > Part Část
                  > > Title Hlava
                  > > Chapter Díl
                  > > Section Oddíl
                  > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                  > > Paragraph Odstavec
                  > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                  > > Point Bod
                  > >
                  > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                  > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                  > > docs that use it.)
                  > >
                  > > Thanks in advance.
                  > >
                  > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                  > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                  > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > >
                  > > Veronika
                  > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                  > > > > On Behalf
                  > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                  > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                  > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                  > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                  pismeno, bod
                  > > > > (zakona)
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi there,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                  > > > > the texts
                  > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                  box. I
                  > > > > suppose
                  > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                  > > > > "odstavec"
                  > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                  > simply
                  > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                  > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                  > > > > English-speaking countries?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Jirka Bolech
                  > > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Šárka Rubková
                  Souhlas, Mateji ... From: Matej Klimes Date: 6.8.2008 12:19:28 To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Souhlas, Mateji

                    -------Original Message-------

                    From: Matej Klimes
                    Date: 6.8.2008 12:19:28
                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                    (zakona)

                    Nevim jak ostatni, ale ja pri prekladech zakunu do A pouzivam paragraf jako
                    Section a clanek (2.1. atd.) jako Article - tak mi to kdysi vysvetlili
                    experti a tak jsem to mockrat videl, tak to tak delam, ono nejvic zalezi na
                    tom, aby to bylo logicke a konzistentni...

                    M

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: meluzina_x
                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM
                    Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                    (zakona)

                    Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                    zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

                    Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                    pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                    vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                    urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

                    take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                    mozna vypada :)

                    A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                    Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

                    Veronika

                    (19
                    Čl. 26
                    Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a
                    novely,
                    na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

                    ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

                    Čl. 27
                    Členění ústavního zákona
                    (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                    zkratkou "Čl."
                    a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem č
                    lánku uprostřed.
                    Čísla se u zkratky "Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí,
                    například:

                    a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

                    Čl. 28
                    Členění novely
                    (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                    zkratkou "Čl." a římským
                    číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku
                    uprostřed; čísla se u
                    zkratky "Čl."
                    uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.

                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                    > predpisech, smernicich.
                    > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                    smernicich,
                    > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                    >
                    > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                    odkazu,
                    > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                    > Sarka
                    >
                    > -------Original Message-------
                    >
                    > From: meluzina_x
                    > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                    > (zakona)
                    >
                    > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                    > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                    > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                    >
                    > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                    >
                    http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                    > pdf,
                    >
                    > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                    > zakonech...
                    >
                    > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                    >
                    > http://ec.europa
                    >
                    eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                    > pdf
                    >
                    > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                    >
                    > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                    > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                    > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                    >
                    > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                    >
                    > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Ahoj Jirko,
                    > >
                    > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                    > > clanek = article
                    > > paragraf = section
                    > > odstavec = subsection
                    > > pismeno = paragraph
                    > > bod = subparagraph
                    > >
                    > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                    > nejak se
                    > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                    > >
                    > > sarka
                    > >
                    > > -------Original Message-------
                    > >
                    > > From: meluzina_x
                    > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                    > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                    pismeno, bod
                    > > (zakona)
                    > >
                    > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                    > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                    > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                    > >
                    > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                    > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                    > > into English, not vice versa).
                    > >
                    > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                    > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                    > >
                    > > This link:
                    > >
                    >
                    http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                    > > pdf
                    > >
                    > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                    > >
                    > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                    > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                    > > discussed in this thread.
                    > >
                    > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                    > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                    > > level):
                    > >
                    > > Cast
                    > > Hlava
                    > > Dil
                    > > Oddil
                    > > Pododdil
                    > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                    > > which use Clanek for this level)
                    > > Odstavec
                    > > Pododstavec
                    > > Bod
                    > >
                    > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                    > following:
                    > >
                    > > Part Část
                    > > Title Hlava
                    > > Chapter Díl
                    > > Section Oddíl
                    > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                    > > Paragraph Odstavec
                    > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                    > > Point Bod
                    > >
                    > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                    > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                    > > docs that use it.)
                    > >
                    > > Thanks in advance.
                    > >
                    > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                    > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                    > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > >
                    > > Veronika
                    > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                    > > > > On Behalf
                    > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                    > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                    > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                    > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                    pismeno, bod
                    > > > > (zakona)
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi there,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                    > > > > the texts
                    > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                    box. I
                    > > > > suppose
                    > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                    > > > > "odstavec"
                    > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                    > simply
                    > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                    > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                    > > > > English-speaking countries?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Jirka Bolech
                    > > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Alena Rysková 2e
                    Tak ja take prispeji k teto kosate debate - z mych poznamek z prednasky na PF UK jsem vykutala doporuceni, jak prekladat nasledujici ceske pojmy do anglictiny:
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Tak ja take prispeji k teto kosate debate - z mych poznamek z prednasky na PF UK jsem vykutala doporuceni, jak prekladat nasledujici ceske pojmy do anglictiny:
                      paragraf - section
                      odstavec - subsection
                      pismeno - paragraph
                      veta - subparagraph
                      chapter je dle tehoz castka (cili c s hackem, prvni a dlouhe)
                      A jeste: pokud je nekde odvolavka na neco jako §81, odst. 4, pism. b, ma se to prevadet jako s. 81(4)(b)
                      A ted je gulas dokonaly!
                      Alena

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Sárka Rubková
                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:30 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod (zakona)


                      Ja myslim ten odkaz na EU pravidla. ten se v podstate zakonu netyka, hovori
                      se tam o pravnich aktech, vyslovne se mluvi o mezinarodnich smlouvach,
                      smernicich, narizenich, rozhodnutich na urovni EU, coz jsou vsechno pravni
                      akty a, pravda, o ustave.

                      Zakony jednotlivych zemi nepodlehaji nomenklature EU. Rozhodne bych ji do
                      prekladu ceskeho zakona netahala.

                      Sarka




                      -------Original Message-------

                      From: meluzina_x
                      Date: 6.8.2008 12:03:09
                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                      (zakona)

                      Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                      zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

                      Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                      pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                      vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                      urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

                      take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                      mozna vypada :)

                      A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                      Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

                      Veronika

                      (19
                      Čl. 26
                      Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a
                      novely,
                      na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

                      ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

                      Čl. 27
                      Členění ústavního zákona
                      (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                      zkratkou "Čl."
                      a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem č
                      lánku uprostřed.
                      Čísla se u zkratky "Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí,
                      například:

                      a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

                      Čl. 28
                      Členění novely
                      (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                      zkratkou "Čl." a římským
                      číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku
                      uprostřed; čísla se u
                      zkratky "Čl."
                      uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.

                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                      > predpisech, smernicich.
                      > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                      smernicich,
                      > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                      >
                      > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                      odkazu,
                      > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                      > Sarka
                      >
                      > -------Original Message-------
                      >
                      > From: meluzina_x
                      > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                      > (zakona)
                      >
                      > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                      > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                      > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                      >
                      > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                      >
                      http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                      > pdf,
                      >
                      > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                      > zakonech...
                      >
                      > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                      >
                      > http://ec.europa
                      >
                      eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                      > pdf
                      >
                      > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                      >
                      > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                      > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                      > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                      >
                      > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                      >
                      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Ahoj Jirko,
                      > >
                      > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                      > > clanek = article
                      > > paragraf = section
                      > > odstavec = subsection
                      > > pismeno = paragraph
                      > > bod = subparagraph
                      > >
                      > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                      > nejak se
                      > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                      > >
                      > > sarka
                      > >
                      > > -------Original Message-------
                      > >
                      > > From: meluzina_x
                      > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                      > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                      pismeno, bod
                      > > (zakona)
                      > >
                      > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                      > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                      > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                      > >
                      > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                      > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                      > > into English, not vice versa).
                      > >
                      > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                      > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                      > >
                      > > This link:
                      > >
                      >
                      http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                      > > pdf
                      > >
                      > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                      > >
                      > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                      > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                      > > discussed in this thread.
                      > >
                      > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                      > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                      > > level):
                      > >
                      > > Cast
                      > > Hlava
                      > > Dil
                      > > Oddil
                      > > Pododdil
                      > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                      > > which use Clanek for this level)
                      > > Odstavec
                      > > Pododstavec
                      > > Bod
                      > >
                      > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                      > following:
                      > >
                      > > Part Část
                      > > Title Hlava
                      > > Chapter Díl
                      > > Section Oddíl
                      > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                      > > Paragraph Odstavec
                      > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                      > > Point Bod
                      > >
                      > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                      > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                      > > docs that use it.)
                      > >
                      > > Thanks in advance.
                      > >
                      > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                      > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                      > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                      > >
                      > > Regards,
                      > >
                      > > Veronika
                      > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                      > > > > On Behalf
                      > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                      > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                      > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                      pismeno, bod
                      > > > > (zakona)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hi there,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                      > > > > the texts
                      > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                      box. I
                      > > > > suppose
                      > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                      > > > > "odstavec"
                      > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                      > simply
                      > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                      > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                      > > > > English-speaking countries?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Jirka Bolech
                      > > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • meluzina_x
                      Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice. I will continue using Section/Subsection - and if someone corrects it to Article/Paragraph, so be it :D I
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice. I will continue
                        using Section/Subsection - and if someone corrects it to
                        Article/Paragraph, so be it :D

                        I was trying to find some one document that I could use as "proof"
                        when i receive back a corrected translation telling me to use the
                        alternative to the combination I used.

                        It seems this must be an issue for more people, as if you take a look
                        at the various English translations that do exist, they seem to be a
                        combination. As someone mentioned, it most likely depends on who is
                        using the translation. The English versions of acts avaialble on the
                        CNB site seem to use the Article/Paragraph combination throughout. The
                        various ministries seem to have a mix. (There are also other
                        variations being used, but those aren't worth getting into.)


                        Thanks again.


                        Veronika

                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Alena Rysková 2e <preklady@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Tak ja take prispeji k teto kosate debate - z mych poznamek z
                        prednasky na PF UK jsem vykutala doporuceni, jak prekladat nasledujici
                        ceske pojmy do anglictiny:
                        > paragraf - section
                        > odstavec - subsection
                        > pismeno - paragraph
                        > veta - subparagraph
                        > chapter je dle tehoz castka (cili c s hackem, prvni a dlouhe)
                        > A jeste: pokud je nekde odvolavka na neco jako §81, odst. 4, pism.
                        b, ma se to prevadet jako s. 81(4)(b)
                        > A ted je gulas dokonaly!
                        > Alena
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Sárka Rubková
                        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:30 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                        pismeno, bod (zakona)
                        >
                        >
                        > Ja myslim ten odkaz na EU pravidla. ten se v podstate zakonu
                        netyka, hovori
                        > se tam o pravnich aktech, vyslovne se mluvi o mezinarodnich smlouvach,
                        > smernicich, narizenich, rozhodnutich na urovni EU, coz jsou
                        vsechno pravni
                        > akty a, pravda, o ustave.
                        >
                        > Zakony jednotlivych zemi nepodlehaji nomenklature EU. Rozhodne
                        bych ji do
                        > prekladu ceskeho zakona netahala.
                        >
                        > Sarka
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -------Original Message-------
                        >
                        > From: meluzina_x
                        > Date: 6.8.2008 12:03:09
                        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                        pismeno, bod
                        > (zakona)
                        >
                        > Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                        > zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)
                        >
                        > Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                        > pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                        > vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                        > urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)
                        >
                        > take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                        > mozna vypada :)
                        >
                        > A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                        > Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten
                        paragraf).
                        >
                        > Veronika
                        >
                        > (19
                        > Čl. 26
                        > Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního
                        zákona a
                        > novely,
                        > na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )
                        >
                        > ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:
                        >
                        > Čl. 27
                        > Členění ústavního zákona
                        > (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se
                        označuje
                        > zkratkou "Čl."
                        > a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem
                        č
                        > lánku uprostřed.
                        > Čísla se u zkratky "Čl." uvádějí v souvislém
                        pořadí,
                        > například:
                        >
                        > a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.
                        >
                        > Čl. 28
                        > Členění novely
                        > (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                        > zkratkou "Čl." a římským
                        > číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku
                        > uprostřed; čísla se u
                        > zkratky "Čl."
                        > uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.
                        >
                        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                        > > predpisech, smernicich.
                        > > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                        > smernicich,
                        > > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                        > >
                        > > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                        > odkazu,
                        > > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                        > > Sarka
                        > >
                        > > -------Original Message-------
                        > >
                        > > From: meluzina_x
                        > > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                        > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                        pismeno, bod
                        > > (zakona)
                        > >
                        > > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                        > > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                        > > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                        > >
                        > > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                        > >
                        >
                        http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy

                        > > pdf,
                        > >
                        > > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v
                        ceskych
                        > > zakonech...
                        > >
                        > > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                        > >
                        > > http://ec.europa
                        > >
                        >
                        eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                        > > pdf
                        > >
                        > > anglicka verze je zde:
                        http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                        > >
                        > > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke
                        verzi, se
                        > > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te
                        prirucky,
                        > > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako
                        "oddil".
                        > >
                        > > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                        > >
                        > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@>
                        wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Ahoj Jirko,
                        > > >
                        > > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                        > > > clanek = article
                        > > > paragraf = section
                        > > > odstavec = subsection
                        > > > pismeno = paragraph
                        > > > bod = subparagraph
                        > > >
                        > > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                        > > nejak se
                        > > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                        > > >
                        > > > sarka
                        > > >
                        > > > -------Original Message-------
                        > > >
                        > > > From: meluzina_x
                        > > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                        > > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                        > pismeno, bod
                        > > > (zakona)
                        > > >
                        > > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                        > > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                        > > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                        > > >
                        > > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                        > > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from
                        Czech
                        > > > into English, not vice versa).
                        > > >
                        > > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides
                        a very
                        > > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                        > > >
                        > > > This link:
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy

                        > > > pdf
                        > > >
                        > > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                        > > >
                        > > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                        > > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                        > > > discussed in this thread.
                        > > >
                        > > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                        > > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very
                        highest
                        > > > level):
                        > > >
                        > > > Cast
                        > > > Hlava
                        > > > Dil
                        > > > Oddil
                        > > > Pododdil
                        > > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional
                        Acts,
                        > > > which use Clanek for this level)
                        > > > Odstavec
                        > > > Pododstavec
                        > > > Bod
                        > > >
                        > > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                        > > following:
                        > > >
                        > > > Part Část
                        > > > Title Hlava
                        > > > Chapter Díl
                        > > > Section Oddíl
                        > > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                        > > > Paragraph Odstavec
                        > > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                        > > > Point Bod
                        > > >
                        > > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but
                        there is
                        > > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have
                        seen Vzech
                        > > > docs that use it.)
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks in advance.
                        > > >
                        > > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did
                        post to
                        > > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled
                        (due to
                        > > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                        > > >
                        > > > Regards,
                        > > >
                        > > > Veronika
                        > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                        > > > > > On Behalf
                        > > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                        > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                        > > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                        > > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                        > pismeno, bod
                        > > > > > (zakona)
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hi there,
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the
                        documents)
                        > > > > > the texts
                        > > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                        > box. I
                        > > > > > suppose
                        > > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as
                        'section',
                        > > > > > "odstavec"
                        > > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could
                        "pismeno" be
                        > > simply
                        > > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an
                        established way of
                        > > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                        > > > > > English-speaking countries?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Jirka Bolech
                        > > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • James Kirchner
                        Are mikrotužkové baterie just AAA batteries, or is there something special about them? Thanks. Jamie
                        Message 11 of 27 , Aug 8, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Are mikrotužkové baterie just AAA batteries, or is there something
                          special about them?

                          Thanks.

                          Jamie
                        • Jirka Bolech
                          Hi Jamie, ... That s exactly what they are... Jira Bolech
                          Message 12 of 27 , Aug 8, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Jamie,

                            > Are mikrotužkové baterie just AAA batteries?

                            That's exactly what they are...

                            Jira Bolech
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.