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Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty

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  • Valerie Talacko
    No way is American intonation more monotonous (unless you ve been watching a lot of Westerns). In fact it seems to me to be quite the opposite - the trend
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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      No way is American intonation more monotonous (unless you've been watching a lot of Westerns). In fact it seems to me to be quite the opposite - the trend seems to have been for intonation variation to become more pronounced in AmEng, whereas in the UK it is (or was) trendy to speak in more of a monotone. Very upper-class BritEng intonation has pretty pronounced rises and falls, but that's now a fairly small subset of speakers. Scottish and Welsh accents also have more pronounced intonational differences.

      I've also been told AmEng is easier to understand, but I think that's because of things such as the preservation of the post-vocalic r sound. And the the fact that BritEng has changed in this and other respects doesn't make it 'more developed.'

      When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did know this but have forgotten)

      Valerie



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: James Kirchner
      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 9:51 AM
      Subject: [Czechlist] ireferaty


      Thank you for leading us to this site, Jennifer. I didn't know about
      it. It's very useful, both as an information source and as an
      anthropological curiosity.

      The most interesting part for me are the "maturitni otazky",
      particularly the ones for English.

      I see nothing much has changed in those swallowed-and-regurgitated
      texts. One of them still has the title "My Daily Program", which
      always sounded quite Czenglish to me, so I used to make the kids say,
      "My Daily Routine".

      The other thing I used to spit fire over was the list of vocabulary
      "differences" between US and UK English. For example:

      pants is called trousers
      store is called shop
      general store is called department store

      It would be more realistic to say, "Americans call trousers pants,
      except when they call them trousers," and, "Americans call a shop a
      store, except then they call it a shop."

      And I have never heard of a town having a "general store" since the
      cowboy-and-Indian days.

      And then there are these classics:

      "the American pronunciation has preserved a feature of the language in
      its earlier stages of development while the British pronunciation of
      these days appears to be more developed in comparison with it."

      More developed?

      "In comparison with the lively British intonation, the American
      intonation seems to be somehow monotonous. The melody of the speech is
      simpler as there are not rises and falls of the speech and that is why
      American English is easier to understand than British English."

      What?

      Where do they get this stuff?

      Jamie





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James Kirchner
      ... We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There s no rule or particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call pants are our underpants.) On
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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        On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:

        > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
        > know this but have forgotten)

        We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
        particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
        are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
        "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his britches".

        That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
        American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
        usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
        differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
        reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
        the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
        elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)

        In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
        the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
        slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
        "British".

        Jamie



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jan Culka
        britches or breeches? Honza ... From: James Kirchner To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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          britches or breeches?
          Honza



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: James Kirchner
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty



          On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:

          > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
          > know this but have forgotten)

          We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
          particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
          are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
          "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his britches".

          That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
          American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
          usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
          differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
          reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
          the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
          elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)

          In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
          the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
          slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
          "British".

          Jamie

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Kirchner
          Britches. We also have the word breeches, but those are something people wore centuries ago. JK ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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            Britches. We also have the word breeches, but those are something
            people wore centuries ago.

            JK

            On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Jan Culka wrote:

            > britches or breeches?
            > Honza
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: James Kirchner
            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
            >
            > On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:
            >
            > > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
            > > know this but have forgotten)
            >
            > We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
            > particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
            > are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
            > "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his
            > britches".
            >
            > That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
            > American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
            > usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
            > differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
            > reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
            > the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
            > elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)
            >
            > In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
            > the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
            > slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
            > "British".
            >
            > Jamie
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jan Culka
            And breech (= buttocks) is an archaism as well? H. ... From: James Kirchner To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re:
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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              And breech (= buttocks) is an archaism as well?
              H.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: James Kirchner
              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:08 PM
              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty


              Britches. We also have the word breeches, but those are something
              people wore centuries ago.

              JK

              On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Jan Culka wrote:

              > britches or breeches?
              > Honza
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: James Kirchner
              > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
              >
              > On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:
              >
              > > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
              > > know this but have forgotten)
              >
              > We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
              > particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
              > are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
              > "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his
              > britches".
              >
              > That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
              > American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
              > usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
              > differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
              > reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
              > the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
              > elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)
              >
              > In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
              > the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
              > slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
              > "British".
              >
              > Jamie
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • James Kirchner
              I ve never heard of that word being used to be buttocks. I see it s in the dictionary listed as archaic. However, it sounds less like it refers to the actual
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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                I've never heard of that word being used to be buttocks.

                I see it's in the dictionary listed as archaic. However, it sounds
                less like it refers to the actual buttocks than to what people now
                call the "crack".

                JK

                On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:12 AM, Jan Culka wrote:

                > And breech (= buttocks) is an archaism as well?
                > H.
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: James Kirchner
                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:08 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
                >
                > Britches. We also have the word breeches, but those are something
                > people wore centuries ago.
                >
                > JK
                >
                > On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Jan Culka wrote:
                >
                > > britches or breeches?
                > > Honza
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: James Kirchner
                > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
                > > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
                > >
                > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:
                > >
                > > > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
                > > > know this but have forgotten)
                > >
                > > We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
                > > particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
                > > are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
                > > "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his
                > > britches".
                > >
                > > That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British
                > and
                > > American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
                > > usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
                > > differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
                > > reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
                > > the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
                > > elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)
                > >
                > > In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
                > > the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
                > > slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
                > > "British".
                > >
                > > Jamie
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • James Kirchner
                How would you folks translate Obchod in reference to a department, without context, in regard to a company that you re 90% sure does not own or operate a
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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                  How would you folks translate "Obchod" in reference to a department,
                  without context, in regard to a company that you're 90% sure does not
                  own or operate a kram?

                  Would that be a sales department?

                  Thanks.

                  Jamie
                • Jirka Bolech
                  ... That s what I would call it. Obchod is the same as odbyt for a department and that s what you guys call sales ... Jirka Bolech
                  Message 8 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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                    Hi Jamie:

                    > Would that be a sales department?

                    That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                    department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...

                    Jirka Bolech
                  • James Kirchner
                    That s what I thought. Thanks. Jamie ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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                      That's what I thought. Thanks.

                      Jamie

                      On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                      > Hi Jamie:
                      >
                      > > Would that be a sales department?
                      >
                      > That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                      > department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...
                      >
                      > Jirka Bolech
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jirka Bolech
                      Another noun some companies use is prodej while the corresponding adjectives are obchodni , odbytove , and prodejni , respectively, for the noun
                      Message 10 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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                        Another noun some companies use is "prodej" while the corresponding
                        adjectives are "obchodni", "odbytove", and "prodejni", respectively, for the
                        noun "oddeleni"...

                        Jirka Bolech

                        -----Původní zpráva-----
                        Od: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] za
                        uživatele James Kirchner
                        Odesláno: 1. února 2008 14:44
                        Komu: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Předmět: Re: [Czechlist] Obchod

                        That's what I thought. Thanks.

                        Jamie

                        On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                        > Hi Jamie:
                        >
                        > > Would that be a sales department?
                        >
                        > That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                        > department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...
                        >
                        > Jirka Bolech
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        Translators' tricks of the trade:
                        http://czeng.wetpaint.com/





                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • James Kirchner
                        Thanks, Jirka. Another question that s not resolved by any dictionary: Is kredit ever used to mean credibility? I know this lady is not writing about bad
                        Message 11 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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                          Thanks, Jirka.

                          Another question that's not resolved by any dictionary: Is "kredit"
                          ever used to mean credibility? I know this lady is not writing about
                          bad financial credit, but about a person's lack of believability. Is
                          that possible?

                          JK

                          On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                          > Another noun some companies use is "prodej" while the corresponding
                          > adjectives are "obchodni", "odbytove", and "prodejni", respectively,
                          > for the
                          > noun "oddeleni"...
                          >
                          > Jirka Bolech
                          >
                          > -----Původní zpráva-----
                          > Od: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] za
                          > uživatele James Kirchner
                          > Odesláno: 1. února 2008 14:44
                          > Komu: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > Předmět: Re: [Czechlist] Obchod
                          >
                          > That's what I thought. Thanks.
                          >
                          > Jamie
                          >
                          > On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:
                          >
                          >> Hi Jamie:
                          >>
                          >>> Would that be a sales department?
                          >>
                          >> That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                          >> department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...
                          >>
                          >> Jirka Bolech
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                          > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                          > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Josef Hlavac
                          ... Yes, perfectly possible. You can even talk about a person having a vysoky moralni kredit (which I d probably translate as a high ethical standard ), and
                          Message 12 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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                            > Another question that's not resolved by any dictionary: Is "kredit"
                            > ever used to mean credibility? I know this lady is not writing about
                            > bad financial credit, but about a person's lack of believability. Is
                            > that possible?

                            Yes, perfectly possible.

                            You can even talk about a person having a "vysoky moralni kredit" (which
                            I'd probably translate as a "high ethical standard"), and so on.

                            Josef
                          • Jaroslav Hejzlar
                            Yes, that is quite frequent use of the word, although it is completely incorrect. Regards, Jarda ... From: James Kirchner To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                            Message 13 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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                              Yes,
                              that is quite frequent use of the word, although it is completely incorrect.
                              Regards,
                              Jarda

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: James Kirchner
                              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:18 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Obchod


                              Thanks, Jirka.

                              Another question that's not resolved by any dictionary: Is "kredit"
                              ever used to mean credibility? I know this lady is not writing about
                              bad financial credit, but about a person's lack of believability. Is
                              that possible?

                              JK

                              On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                              > Another noun some companies use is "prodej" while the corresponding
                              > adjectives are "obchodni", "odbytove", and "prodejni", respectively,
                              > for the
                              > noun "oddeleni"...
                              >
                              > Jirka Bolech
                              >
                              > -----Původní zpráva-----
                              > Od: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] za
                              > uživatele James Kirchner
                              > Odesláno: 1. února 2008 14:44
                              > Komu: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Předmět: Re: [Czechlist] Obchod
                              >
                              > That's what I thought. Thanks.
                              >
                              > Jamie
                              >
                              > On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:
                              >
                              >> Hi Jamie:
                              >>
                              >>> Would that be a sales department?
                              >>
                              >> That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                              >> department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...
                              >>
                              >> Jirka Bolech
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                              > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                              > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Valerie Talacko
                              I meant the other way round - I knew you called trousers pants, but it was news to me that you also called them trousers. ... Yes. It s also fair to say that
                              Message 14 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
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                                I meant the other way round - I knew you called trousers pants, but it was news to me that you also called them trousers.

                                >Those lists usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list differences that do exist.

                                Yes. It's also fair to say that at least 75% of the usually-unlisted ones occur in the realm of baby care!

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: James Kirchner
                                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty



                                On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:

                                > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
                                > know this but have forgotten)

                                We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
                                particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
                                are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
                                "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his britches".

                                That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
                                American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
                                usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
                                differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
                                reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
                                the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
                                elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)

                                In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
                                the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
                                slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
                                "British".

                                Jamie

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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