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ireferaty

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  • James Kirchner
    Thank you for leading us to this site, Jennifer. I didn t know about it. It s very useful, both as an information source and as an anthropological curiosity.
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
      Thank you for leading us to this site, Jennifer. I didn't know about
      it. It's very useful, both as an information source and as an
      anthropological curiosity.

      The most interesting part for me are the "maturitni otazky",
      particularly the ones for English.

      I see nothing much has changed in those swallowed-and-regurgitated
      texts. One of them still has the title "My Daily Program", which
      always sounded quite Czenglish to me, so I used to make the kids say,
      "My Daily Routine".

      The other thing I used to spit fire over was the list of vocabulary
      "differences" between US and UK English. For example:

      pants is called trousers
      store is called shop
      general store is called department store

      It would be more realistic to say, "Americans call trousers pants,
      except when they call them trousers," and, "Americans call a shop a
      store, except then they call it a shop."

      And I have never heard of a town having a "general store" since the
      cowboy-and-Indian days.

      And then there are these classics:

      "the American pronunciation has preserved a feature of the language in
      its earlier stages of development while the British pronunciation of
      these days appears to be more developed in comparison with it."

      More developed?

      "In comparison with the lively British intonation, the American
      intonation seems to be somehow monotonous. The melody of the speech is
      simpler as there are not rises and falls of the speech and that is why
      American English is easier to understand than British English."

      What?

      Where do they get this stuff?

      Jamie
    • kzgafas
      Yes, it is used in Czech, but not very often - per my Googling. K. ... to cocaine ... can I ... is
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
        Yes, it is used in Czech, but not very often - per my Googling.

        K.


        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Hejtmánková <jenhejt@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Try this:
        >
        > http://ireferaty.lidovky.cz/321/168/Kokain
        >
        > they use the term "krek".
        >
        > hth,
        > jennifer
        >
        > On Feb 1, 2008, at 1:33 AM, kzgafas wrote:
        >
        > > Anyone experienced in using cocaine? :-)
        > >
        > > Just wondering how to translate "cocaine crack" as opposed
        to "cocaine
        > > powder". Just "crack"? And the second - "kokainový prasek"? So
        can I
        > > say in Czech: Kokain se uziva jako kokainovy prasek nebo crack?
        is
        > > this
        > > OK.
        > >
        > > Thank you,
        > >
        > > K.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Valerie Talacko
        No way is American intonation more monotonous (unless you ve been watching a lot of Westerns). In fact it seems to me to be quite the opposite - the trend
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
          No way is American intonation more monotonous (unless you've been watching a lot of Westerns). In fact it seems to me to be quite the opposite - the trend seems to have been for intonation variation to become more pronounced in AmEng, whereas in the UK it is (or was) trendy to speak in more of a monotone. Very upper-class BritEng intonation has pretty pronounced rises and falls, but that's now a fairly small subset of speakers. Scottish and Welsh accents also have more pronounced intonational differences.

          I've also been told AmEng is easier to understand, but I think that's because of things such as the preservation of the post-vocalic r sound. And the the fact that BritEng has changed in this and other respects doesn't make it 'more developed.'

          When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did know this but have forgotten)

          Valerie



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: James Kirchner
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 9:51 AM
          Subject: [Czechlist] ireferaty


          Thank you for leading us to this site, Jennifer. I didn't know about
          it. It's very useful, both as an information source and as an
          anthropological curiosity.

          The most interesting part for me are the "maturitni otazky",
          particularly the ones for English.

          I see nothing much has changed in those swallowed-and-regurgitated
          texts. One of them still has the title "My Daily Program", which
          always sounded quite Czenglish to me, so I used to make the kids say,
          "My Daily Routine".

          The other thing I used to spit fire over was the list of vocabulary
          "differences" between US and UK English. For example:

          pants is called trousers
          store is called shop
          general store is called department store

          It would be more realistic to say, "Americans call trousers pants,
          except when they call them trousers," and, "Americans call a shop a
          store, except then they call it a shop."

          And I have never heard of a town having a "general store" since the
          cowboy-and-Indian days.

          And then there are these classics:

          "the American pronunciation has preserved a feature of the language in
          its earlier stages of development while the British pronunciation of
          these days appears to be more developed in comparison with it."

          More developed?

          "In comparison with the lively British intonation, the American
          intonation seems to be somehow monotonous. The melody of the speech is
          simpler as there are not rises and falls of the speech and that is why
          American English is easier to understand than British English."

          What?

          Where do they get this stuff?

          Jamie





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Kirchner
          ... We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There s no rule or particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call pants are our underpants.) On
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
            On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:

            > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
            > know this but have forgotten)

            We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
            particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
            are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
            "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his britches".

            That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
            American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
            usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
            differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
            reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
            the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
            elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)

            In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
            the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
            slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
            "British".

            Jamie



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jan Culka
            britches or breeches? Honza ... From: James Kirchner To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
              britches or breeches?
              Honza



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: James Kirchner
              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty



              On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:

              > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
              > know this but have forgotten)

              We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
              particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
              are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
              "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his britches".

              That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
              American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
              usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
              differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
              reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
              the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
              elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)

              In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
              the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
              slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
              "British".

              Jamie

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • James Kirchner
              Britches. We also have the word breeches, but those are something people wore centuries ago. JK ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                Britches. We also have the word breeches, but those are something
                people wore centuries ago.

                JK

                On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Jan Culka wrote:

                > britches or breeches?
                > Honza
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: James Kirchner
                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
                >
                > On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:
                >
                > > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
                > > know this but have forgotten)
                >
                > We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
                > particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
                > are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
                > "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his
                > britches".
                >
                > That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
                > American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
                > usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
                > differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
                > reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
                > the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
                > elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)
                >
                > In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
                > the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
                > slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
                > "British".
                >
                > Jamie
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jan Culka
                And breech (= buttocks) is an archaism as well? H. ... From: James Kirchner To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re:
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                  And breech (= buttocks) is an archaism as well?
                  H.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: James Kirchner
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:08 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty


                  Britches. We also have the word breeches, but those are something
                  people wore centuries ago.

                  JK

                  On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Jan Culka wrote:

                  > britches or breeches?
                  > Honza
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: James Kirchner
                  > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
                  >
                  > On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:
                  >
                  > > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
                  > > know this but have forgotten)
                  >
                  > We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
                  > particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
                  > are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
                  > "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his
                  > britches".
                  >
                  > That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
                  > American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
                  > usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
                  > differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
                  > reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
                  > the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
                  > elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)
                  >
                  > In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
                  > the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
                  > slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
                  > "British".
                  >
                  > Jamie
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • James Kirchner
                  I ve never heard of that word being used to be buttocks. I see it s in the dictionary listed as archaic. However, it sounds less like it refers to the actual
                  Message 8 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                    I've never heard of that word being used to be buttocks.

                    I see it's in the dictionary listed as archaic. However, it sounds
                    less like it refers to the actual buttocks than to what people now
                    call the "crack".

                    JK

                    On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:12 AM, Jan Culka wrote:

                    > And breech (= buttocks) is an archaism as well?
                    > H.
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: James Kirchner
                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:08 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
                    >
                    > Britches. We also have the word breeches, but those are something
                    > people wore centuries ago.
                    >
                    > JK
                    >
                    > On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Jan Culka wrote:
                    >
                    > > britches or breeches?
                    > > Honza
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: James Kirchner
                    > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty
                    > >
                    > > On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
                    > > > know this but have forgotten)
                    > >
                    > > We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
                    > > particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
                    > > are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
                    > > "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his
                    > > britches".
                    > >
                    > > That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British
                    > and
                    > > American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
                    > > usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
                    > > differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
                    > > reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
                    > > the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
                    > > elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)
                    > >
                    > > In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
                    > > the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
                    > > slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
                    > > "British".
                    > >
                    > > Jamie
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • James Kirchner
                    How would you folks translate Obchod in reference to a department, without context, in regard to a company that you re 90% sure does not own or operate a
                    Message 9 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                      How would you folks translate "Obchod" in reference to a department,
                      without context, in regard to a company that you're 90% sure does not
                      own or operate a kram?

                      Would that be a sales department?

                      Thanks.

                      Jamie
                    • Jirka Bolech
                      ... That s what I would call it. Obchod is the same as odbyt for a department and that s what you guys call sales ... Jirka Bolech
                      Message 10 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                        Hi Jamie:

                        > Would that be a sales department?

                        That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                        department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...

                        Jirka Bolech
                      • James Kirchner
                        That s what I thought. Thanks. Jamie ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                          That's what I thought. Thanks.

                          Jamie

                          On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                          > Hi Jamie:
                          >
                          > > Would that be a sales department?
                          >
                          > That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                          > department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...
                          >
                          > Jirka Bolech
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jirka Bolech
                          Another noun some companies use is prodej while the corresponding adjectives are obchodni , odbytove , and prodejni , respectively, for the noun
                          Message 12 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                            Another noun some companies use is "prodej" while the corresponding
                            adjectives are "obchodni", "odbytove", and "prodejni", respectively, for the
                            noun "oddeleni"...

                            Jirka Bolech

                            -----Původní zpráva-----
                            Od: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] za
                            uživatele James Kirchner
                            Odesláno: 1. února 2008 14:44
                            Komu: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Předmět: Re: [Czechlist] Obchod

                            That's what I thought. Thanks.

                            Jamie

                            On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                            > Hi Jamie:
                            >
                            > > Would that be a sales department?
                            >
                            > That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                            > department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...
                            >
                            > Jirka Bolech
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            Translators' tricks of the trade:
                            http://czeng.wetpaint.com/





                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • James Kirchner
                            Thanks, Jirka. Another question that s not resolved by any dictionary: Is kredit ever used to mean credibility? I know this lady is not writing about bad
                            Message 13 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                              Thanks, Jirka.

                              Another question that's not resolved by any dictionary: Is "kredit"
                              ever used to mean credibility? I know this lady is not writing about
                              bad financial credit, but about a person's lack of believability. Is
                              that possible?

                              JK

                              On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                              > Another noun some companies use is "prodej" while the corresponding
                              > adjectives are "obchodni", "odbytove", and "prodejni", respectively,
                              > for the
                              > noun "oddeleni"...
                              >
                              > Jirka Bolech
                              >
                              > -----Původní zpráva-----
                              > Od: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] za
                              > uživatele James Kirchner
                              > Odesláno: 1. února 2008 14:44
                              > Komu: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Předmět: Re: [Czechlist] Obchod
                              >
                              > That's what I thought. Thanks.
                              >
                              > Jamie
                              >
                              > On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:
                              >
                              >> Hi Jamie:
                              >>
                              >>> Would that be a sales department?
                              >>
                              >> That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                              >> department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...
                              >>
                              >> Jirka Bolech
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                              > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                              > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Josef Hlavac
                              ... Yes, perfectly possible. You can even talk about a person having a vysoky moralni kredit (which I d probably translate as a high ethical standard ), and
                              Message 14 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                                > Another question that's not resolved by any dictionary: Is "kredit"
                                > ever used to mean credibility? I know this lady is not writing about
                                > bad financial credit, but about a person's lack of believability. Is
                                > that possible?

                                Yes, perfectly possible.

                                You can even talk about a person having a "vysoky moralni kredit" (which
                                I'd probably translate as a "high ethical standard"), and so on.

                                Josef
                              • Jaroslav Hejzlar
                                Yes, that is quite frequent use of the word, although it is completely incorrect. Regards, Jarda ... From: James Kirchner To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                Message 15 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                                  Yes,
                                  that is quite frequent use of the word, although it is completely incorrect.
                                  Regards,
                                  Jarda

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: James Kirchner
                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:18 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Obchod


                                  Thanks, Jirka.

                                  Another question that's not resolved by any dictionary: Is "kredit"
                                  ever used to mean credibility? I know this lady is not writing about
                                  bad financial credit, but about a person's lack of believability. Is
                                  that possible?

                                  JK

                                  On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                                  > Another noun some companies use is "prodej" while the corresponding
                                  > adjectives are "obchodni", "odbytove", and "prodejni", respectively,
                                  > for the
                                  > noun "oddeleni"...
                                  >
                                  > Jirka Bolech
                                  >
                                  > -----Původní zpráva-----
                                  > Od: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] za
                                  > uživatele James Kirchner
                                  > Odesláno: 1. února 2008 14:44
                                  > Komu: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Předmět: Re: [Czechlist] Obchod
                                  >
                                  > That's what I thought. Thanks.
                                  >
                                  > Jamie
                                  >
                                  > On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> Hi Jamie:
                                  >>
                                  >>> Would that be a sales department?
                                  >>
                                  >> That's what I would call it. "Obchod" is the same as "odbyt" for a
                                  >> department and that's what you guys call 'sales'...
                                  >>
                                  >> Jirka Bolech
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                                  > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                                  > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Valerie Talacko
                                  I meant the other way round - I knew you called trousers pants, but it was news to me that you also called them trousers. ... Yes. It s also fair to say that
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Feb 1, 2008
                                    I meant the other way round - I knew you called trousers pants, but it was news to me that you also called them trousers.

                                    >Those lists usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list differences that do exist.

                                    Yes. It's also fair to say that at least 75% of the usually-unlisted ones occur in the realm of baby care!

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: James Kirchner
                                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:55 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Czechlist] ireferaty



                                    On Feb 1, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Valerie Talacko wrote:

                                    > When do you call pants trousers, btw? (and a store a shop - I did
                                    > know this but have forgotten)

                                    We call trousers pans whenever we want to. There's no rule or
                                    particular time we do it. (What the British ESL books call "pants"
                                    are our underpants.) On rare occasions, we also use the word
                                    "britches", so when we say that a small child has "filled his britches".

                                    That whole bit about the vocabulary "differences" between British and
                                    American English is bogus at least 50% of the time. Those lists
                                    usually contain differences that don't exist, and they don't list
                                    differences that do exist. I always wonder who creates them. After
                                    reading those lists all my life, imagine my surprise when I went to
                                    the UK and saw things being sold in "cans". (We usually call an
                                    elegant, decorated can a tin, by the way.)

                                    In the US, you occasionally (but rarely) get a list like that where
                                    the term that's claimed to be "British" is really cockney rhyming
                                    slang. There's no explanation. They just say the weird term is
                                    "British".

                                    Jamie

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