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Re: TERM: CZ-GER "tatickovani"

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  • melvyn.geo
    ... ale take anglicke napady ci vysvetleni, co konkretne to tatickovani je. This definition looks as good as any: http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib Can t
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 3, 2007
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      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Helga Listen" <listen@...> wrote:

      > Pokud mate nekdo primo zpravny vyraz v NJ, bylo by to skvele, beru
      ale take anglicke napady ci vysvetleni, co konkretne to tatickovani je.

      This definition looks as good as any:

      http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib

      Can't help with the German, but in English I might very loosely
      describe it as "father-figure worship" or "father-of-the-nation
      syndrome", although I'm obviously failing to convey the feel of the
      word....

      Big Daddyism also comes to mind.

      BR

      M.
    • James Kirchner
      I don t think you can get to the meaning of that term in English. The closest you could get would be cult worship in the political sense. In politics, it
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 3, 2007
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        I don't think you can get to the meaning of that term in English.

        The closest you could get would be "cult worship" in the political
        sense. In politics, it involves worshiping somebody as Big Daddy,
        putting up statues of him, writing odes to him, all those things.

        You could use a circumlocution, such as "sycophancy toward him as
        father of the nation".

        Jamie

        On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:48 PM, melvyn.geo wrote:

        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Helga Listen" <listen@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Pokud mate nekdo primo zpravny vyraz v NJ, bylo by to skvele, beru
        > ale take anglicke napady ci vysvetleni, co konkretne to tatickovani
        > je.
        >
        > This definition looks as good as any:
        >
        > http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib
        >
        > Can't help with the German, but in English I might very loosely
        > describe it as "father-figure worship" or "father-of-the-nation
        > syndrome", although I'm obviously failing to convey the feel of the
        > word....
        >
        > Big Daddyism also comes to mind.
        >
        > BR
        >
        > M.
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James Kirchner
        A little guidance here? Early in my Czech studies, I asked a Czech jazykar I shared an office with to check an exercise I had done involving the case
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 3, 2007
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          A little guidance here?

          Early in my Czech studies, I asked a Czech jazykar I shared an office
          with to check an exercise I had done involving the case declension of
          numbers. She refused to do it, because, despite her erudition, she
          claimed she didn't know the system well enough to guide me. About
          every other Czech I asked said the same thing, so I just dropped it.

          Then I realized it was relatively rare for Czechs to decline long
          numbers for case, and that instead they used the "cop-out" of placing
          a noun before the number -- such as "rok", "cislo", etc. -- which
          absolved them from having to do case declension on it.

          Would anyone here say that there are mechanisms in Czech (and I
          assume other morphologically complex languages) that are used in
          order to allow people to avoid the brain load necessary to perform
          certain complicated declensions? If so, are there any other examples?

          Jamie
        • Micilín Ó Měchúra
          One avoidance strategy is to leave the *beginning* of the numeral uninflected (leave it in the nominal case). For example pøed 365 leti would typically be
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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            One avoidance strategy is to leave the *beginning* of the numeral uninflected (leave it in the nominal case). For example "před 365 leti" would typically be rendered as "před tři sta šedesáti pěti lety". Notice that "tři sta" is uninflected: it should be "před třemi sty..." if one wanted to be thorough. Interestingly, the end of the numeral still *is* inflected for agreement with the noun. (I got this example from the Jazyková poradna ÚJČ website: http://www.ujc.cas.cz/poradna/porfaq.htm)

            As a native speaker I can confirm that the "traditional" full inflection of numerals is not only difficult but also old-fashioned and formal. If you said "před třemi sty šedesáti pěti lety" in ordinary coversation you'd probably sound a little puffed up. So it's a question of register as well as brain load.

            Michal


            > ------------ Původní zpráva ------------
            > Od: James Kirchner <jpklists@...>
            > Předmět: [Czechlist] Declensions that Czechs avoid
            > Datum: 04.7.2007 00:27:48
            > ----------------------------------------
            > A little guidance here?
            >
            > Early in my Czech studies, I asked a Czech jazykar I shared an office
            > with to check an exercise I had done involving the case declension of
            > numbers. She refused to do it, because, despite her erudition, she
            > claimed she didn't know the system well enough to guide me. About
            > every other Czech I asked said the same thing, so I just dropped it.
            >
            > Then I realized it was relatively rare for Czechs to decline long
            > numbers for case, and that instead they used the "cop-out" of placing
            > a noun before the number -- such as "rok", "cislo", etc. -- which
            > absolved them from having to do case declension on it.
            >
            > Would anyone here say that there are mechanisms in Czech (and I
            > assume other morphologically complex languages) that are used in
            > order to allow people to avoid the brain load necessary to perform
            > certain complicated declensions? If so, are there any other examples?
            >
            > Jamie
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Helga Listen
            My trouble is, that I need a verb. Maybe I´ll have to create one (in German) Helga _____ From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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              My trouble is, that I need a verb. Maybe I�ll have to create one (in German)

              Helga



              _____

              From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of James Kirchner



              I don't think you can get to the meaning of that term in English.

              The closest you could get would be "cult worship" in the political
              sense. In politics, it involves worshiping somebody as Big Daddy,
              putting up statues of him, writing odes to him, all those things.

              You could use a circumlocution, such as "sycophancy toward him as
              father of the nation".

              Jamie

              On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:48 PM, melvyn.geo wrote:

              > --- In HYPERLINK
              "mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com"Czechlist@..., "Helga
              Listen" <listen@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Pokud mate nekdo primo zpravny vyraz v NJ, bylo by to skvele, beru
              > ale take anglicke napady ci vysvetleni, co konkretne to tatickovani
              > je.
              >
              > This definition looks as good as any:
              >
              > HYPERLINK
              "http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib"http://pages.-citebite.-com/y1p9v2f
              2u3fi-b
              >
              > Can't help with the German, but in English I might very loosely
              > describe it as "father-figure worship" or "father-of-the--nation
              > syndrome", although I'm obviously failing to convey the feel of the
              > word....
              >
              > Big Daddyism also comes to mind.
              >
              > BR
              >
              > M.



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            • Helga Listen
              S tim by se mozna dalo neco udelat: landesvatern/ausgelandesvatert by mozna v uvozovkach slo. Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim,
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                S tim by se mozna dalo neco udelat: "landesvatern/ausgelandesvatert" by
                mozna v uvozovkach slo.
                Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim, coz (dle meho
                textu) TGM nenavidel.
                Co vlastne nenavidel? To, ze musel/mel hrat Otce naroda, nebo to, ze narod
                ho do takove rolle vtlacil?
                Dekuji
                Helga

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Preklady@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Preklady@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Čechová Eva, Mgr.

                V nemeckem textu jsem nasla pouziti die "Rolle eines Landesvaters", coz se
                mi i libi. Takze by slo pro "dotatickovani"
                treba pouzit "die Rolle des Landesvaters hat ihr Ende", nebo tak nejak
                podobne.



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              • spektrum2002
                Ja myslim, ze nesnasel, ze se tak k nemu lide chovali. Kdybys misto taticek rekla Buh , tak k tatickovani ma nejbliz zboznova ni . Petr Adamek P.S.
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                  Ja myslim, ze nesnasel, ze se tak k nemu lide chovali. Kdybys misto
                  "taticek" rekla "Buh", tak k "tatickovani" ma nejbliz "zboznova'ni'".
                  Petr Adamek
                  P.S. Vsimla sis, ze v soucasne ceske (nevim, jak moravske) cestine se
                  slovo "taticek" jako zdrobnelina otce prakticky nepouziva, rikame
                  "tatinek". Takze kdyz se rekne "taticek", clovek si automaticky doplni
                  "Masaryk".

                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Helga Listen" <listen@...> wrote:
                  > Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim, coz
                  (dle meho > textu) TGM nenavidel.
                  > Co vlastne nenavidel? To, ze musel/mel hrat Otce naroda, nebo to, ze
                  narod ho do takove rolle vtlacil?
                • Kateřina Bryanová
                  Bohuzel jsem v te dobe nezila (nebo bohudik?) a ani nejsem velky historik, ale vzpominam si, ze moje babicka vzdycky, kdyz o T.G.Masarykovi mluvila, pouzivala
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                    Bohuzel jsem v te dobe nezila (nebo bohudik?) a ani nejsem velky historik,
                    ale vzpominam si, ze moje babicka vzdycky, kdyz o T.G.Masarykovi mluvila,
                    pouzivala "titul": taticek Masaryk... Myslim, ze obycejny lid tim vyjadroval
                    krome ucty, kterou jiste pan prezident vzbuzoval, i lasku k nemu. Mozna to
                    Masarykovi znelo prilis lacine, nebo v tom opravdu videl to, co poslal
                    Melvyn ve svem odkazu: http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib
                    Ale jiste je, ze "taticek Masaryk" bylo sklonovano ve ve v�ech padech a
                    bezne pouzivano... Zrejme to povazoval za nedustojne... Ale to jsou jen
                    dohady. Chtelo by to nazor pametnika.. :-)
                    kacka


                    On 7/4/07, Helga Listen <listen@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > S tim by se mozna dalo neco udelat: "landesvatern/ausgelandesvatert" by
                    > mozna v uvozovkach slo.
                    > Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim, coz (dle meho
                    > textu) TGM nenavidel.
                    > Co vlastne nenavidel? To, ze musel/mel hrat Otce naroda, nebo to, ze narod
                    > ho do takove rolle vtlacil?
                    > Dekuji
                    > Helga
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Preklady@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Preklady@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of �echov� Eva, Mgr.
                    >
                    > V nemeckem textu jsem nasla pouziti die "Rolle eines Landesvaters", coz se
                    > mi i libi. Takze by slo pro "dotatickovani"
                    > treba pouzit "die Rolle des Landesvaters hat ihr Ende", nebo tak nejak
                    > podobne.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Ausgehende eMail ist virenfrei.
                    > �berpr�ft durch AVG.
                    > Version: 7.5.476 / Virendatenbank: 269.9.14/885 - Ausgabedatum: 03.07.2007
                    > 10:02
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Anglicke krouzky:
                    > http://zehrovak.googlepages.com/circles
                    >
                    > Lokativ - terminologicky slovnik:
                    > http://www.lokativ.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Helga Listen
                    Omlouvam se za neznalost ceskych dejin! Opravdu lide TGM jaksi „zboznovali“??? To by bylo skvele, protoze tak bych mela vhodny preklad. Vergoettern – Aus
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                      Omlouvam se za neznalost ceskych dejin! Opravdu lide TGM jaksi
                      �zboznovali�??? To by bylo skvele, protoze tak bych mela vhodny preklad.
                      Vergoettern � Aus mit der Vergoetterung

                      Helga



                      _____

                      From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of spektrum2002



                      Ja myslim, ze nesnasel, ze se tak k nemu lide chovali. Kdybys misto
                      "taticek" rekla "Buh", tak k "tatickovani" ma nejbliz "zboznova'ni'-".
                      Petr Adamek
                      P.S. Vsimla sis, ze v soucasne ceske (nevim, jak moravske) cestine se
                      slovo "taticek" jako zdrobnelina otce prakticky nepouziva, rikame
                      "tatinek". Takze kdyz se rekne "taticek", clovek si automaticky doplni
                      "Masaryk".

                      --- In HYPERLINK
                      "mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com"Czechlist@..., "Helga
                      Listen" <listen@...> wrote:
                      > Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim, coz
                      (dle meho > textu) TGM nenavidel.
                      > Co vlastne nenavidel? To, ze musel/mel hrat Otce naroda, nebo to, ze
                      narod ho do takove rolle vtlacil?


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                    • Hana Jarolímová
                      Ano, to tam klidne dej, oni k nemu vzhlizeli jako k modle. Hanka
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                        Ano, to tam klidne dej, oni k nemu vzhlizeli jako k modle.
                        Hanka
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