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TERM: CZ-GER "tatickovani"

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  • Helga Listen
    Zdravim ve spolku, Muj lechce historicky text pravi o TGM, jeho svyklostech, zalibach a toho co nenavidel. Je to jen maly souhrn ktery zacina takto: Tomas
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 3, 2007
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      Zdravim ve spolku,

      Muj lechce historicky text pravi o TGM, jeho svyklostech, zalibach a toho co
      nenavidel.

      Je to jen maly souhrn ktery zacina takto:

      Tomas Garrique Masaryk prvni Ceskoslovensky prezident nesnasel
      "tat�ckovani"

      Na konci toho asi 500slovniho vypraveni o TGM mam toto:

      Titulek v karlovarsk�m nacistick�m pl�tku zn�l:
      dotatickovano!



      Pokud mate nekdo primo zpravny vyraz v NJ, bylo by to skvele, beru ale take
      anglicke napady ci vysvetleni, co konkretne to tatickovani je.

      Predem dekuji

      Helga


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    • melvyn.geo
      ... ale take anglicke napady ci vysvetleni, co konkretne to tatickovani je. This definition looks as good as any: http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib Can t
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 3, 2007
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        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Helga Listen" <listen@...> wrote:

        > Pokud mate nekdo primo zpravny vyraz v NJ, bylo by to skvele, beru
        ale take anglicke napady ci vysvetleni, co konkretne to tatickovani je.

        This definition looks as good as any:

        http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib

        Can't help with the German, but in English I might very loosely
        describe it as "father-figure worship" or "father-of-the-nation
        syndrome", although I'm obviously failing to convey the feel of the
        word....

        Big Daddyism also comes to mind.

        BR

        M.
      • James Kirchner
        I don t think you can get to the meaning of that term in English. The closest you could get would be cult worship in the political sense. In politics, it
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 3, 2007
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          I don't think you can get to the meaning of that term in English.

          The closest you could get would be "cult worship" in the political
          sense. In politics, it involves worshiping somebody as Big Daddy,
          putting up statues of him, writing odes to him, all those things.

          You could use a circumlocution, such as "sycophancy toward him as
          father of the nation".

          Jamie

          On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:48 PM, melvyn.geo wrote:

          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Helga Listen" <listen@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Pokud mate nekdo primo zpravny vyraz v NJ, bylo by to skvele, beru
          > ale take anglicke napady ci vysvetleni, co konkretne to tatickovani
          > je.
          >
          > This definition looks as good as any:
          >
          > http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib
          >
          > Can't help with the German, but in English I might very loosely
          > describe it as "father-figure worship" or "father-of-the-nation
          > syndrome", although I'm obviously failing to convey the feel of the
          > word....
          >
          > Big Daddyism also comes to mind.
          >
          > BR
          >
          > M.
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Kirchner
          A little guidance here? Early in my Czech studies, I asked a Czech jazykar I shared an office with to check an exercise I had done involving the case
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 3, 2007
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            A little guidance here?

            Early in my Czech studies, I asked a Czech jazykar I shared an office
            with to check an exercise I had done involving the case declension of
            numbers. She refused to do it, because, despite her erudition, she
            claimed she didn't know the system well enough to guide me. About
            every other Czech I asked said the same thing, so I just dropped it.

            Then I realized it was relatively rare for Czechs to decline long
            numbers for case, and that instead they used the "cop-out" of placing
            a noun before the number -- such as "rok", "cislo", etc. -- which
            absolved them from having to do case declension on it.

            Would anyone here say that there are mechanisms in Czech (and I
            assume other morphologically complex languages) that are used in
            order to allow people to avoid the brain load necessary to perform
            certain complicated declensions? If so, are there any other examples?

            Jamie
          • Micilín Ó Měchúra
            One avoidance strategy is to leave the *beginning* of the numeral uninflected (leave it in the nominal case). For example pøed 365 leti would typically be
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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              One avoidance strategy is to leave the *beginning* of the numeral uninflected (leave it in the nominal case). For example "před 365 leti" would typically be rendered as "před tři sta šedesáti pěti lety". Notice that "tři sta" is uninflected: it should be "před třemi sty..." if one wanted to be thorough. Interestingly, the end of the numeral still *is* inflected for agreement with the noun. (I got this example from the Jazyková poradna ÚJČ website: http://www.ujc.cas.cz/poradna/porfaq.htm)

              As a native speaker I can confirm that the "traditional" full inflection of numerals is not only difficult but also old-fashioned and formal. If you said "před třemi sty šedesáti pěti lety" in ordinary coversation you'd probably sound a little puffed up. So it's a question of register as well as brain load.

              Michal


              > ------------ Původní zpráva ------------
              > Od: James Kirchner <jpklists@...>
              > Předmět: [Czechlist] Declensions that Czechs avoid
              > Datum: 04.7.2007 00:27:48
              > ----------------------------------------
              > A little guidance here?
              >
              > Early in my Czech studies, I asked a Czech jazykar I shared an office
              > with to check an exercise I had done involving the case declension of
              > numbers. She refused to do it, because, despite her erudition, she
              > claimed she didn't know the system well enough to guide me. About
              > every other Czech I asked said the same thing, so I just dropped it.
              >
              > Then I realized it was relatively rare for Czechs to decline long
              > numbers for case, and that instead they used the "cop-out" of placing
              > a noun before the number -- such as "rok", "cislo", etc. -- which
              > absolved them from having to do case declension on it.
              >
              > Would anyone here say that there are mechanisms in Czech (and I
              > assume other morphologically complex languages) that are used in
              > order to allow people to avoid the brain load necessary to perform
              > certain complicated declensions? If so, are there any other examples?
              >
              > Jamie
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Helga Listen
              My trouble is, that I need a verb. Maybe I´ll have to create one (in German) Helga _____ From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                My trouble is, that I need a verb. Maybe I�ll have to create one (in German)

                Helga



                _____

                From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of James Kirchner



                I don't think you can get to the meaning of that term in English.

                The closest you could get would be "cult worship" in the political
                sense. In politics, it involves worshiping somebody as Big Daddy,
                putting up statues of him, writing odes to him, all those things.

                You could use a circumlocution, such as "sycophancy toward him as
                father of the nation".

                Jamie

                On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:48 PM, melvyn.geo wrote:

                > --- In HYPERLINK
                "mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com"Czechlist@..., "Helga
                Listen" <listen@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Pokud mate nekdo primo zpravny vyraz v NJ, bylo by to skvele, beru
                > ale take anglicke napady ci vysvetleni, co konkretne to tatickovani
                > je.
                >
                > This definition looks as good as any:
                >
                > HYPERLINK
                "http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib"http://pages.-citebite.-com/y1p9v2f
                2u3fi-b
                >
                > Can't help with the German, but in English I might very loosely
                > describe it as "father-figure worship" or "father-of-the--nation
                > syndrome", although I'm obviously failing to convey the feel of the
                > word....
                >
                > Big Daddyism also comes to mind.
                >
                > BR
                >
                > M.



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              • Helga Listen
                S tim by se mozna dalo neco udelat: landesvatern/ausgelandesvatert by mozna v uvozovkach slo. Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim,
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                  S tim by se mozna dalo neco udelat: "landesvatern/ausgelandesvatert" by
                  mozna v uvozovkach slo.
                  Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim, coz (dle meho
                  textu) TGM nenavidel.
                  Co vlastne nenavidel? To, ze musel/mel hrat Otce naroda, nebo to, ze narod
                  ho do takove rolle vtlacil?
                  Dekuji
                  Helga

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Preklady@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Preklady@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Čechová Eva, Mgr.

                  V nemeckem textu jsem nasla pouziti die "Rolle eines Landesvaters", coz se
                  mi i libi. Takze by slo pro "dotatickovani"
                  treba pouzit "die Rolle des Landesvaters hat ihr Ende", nebo tak nejak
                  podobne.



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                • spektrum2002
                  Ja myslim, ze nesnasel, ze se tak k nemu lide chovali. Kdybys misto taticek rekla Buh , tak k tatickovani ma nejbliz zboznova ni . Petr Adamek P.S.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                    Ja myslim, ze nesnasel, ze se tak k nemu lide chovali. Kdybys misto
                    "taticek" rekla "Buh", tak k "tatickovani" ma nejbliz "zboznova'ni'".
                    Petr Adamek
                    P.S. Vsimla sis, ze v soucasne ceske (nevim, jak moravske) cestine se
                    slovo "taticek" jako zdrobnelina otce prakticky nepouziva, rikame
                    "tatinek". Takze kdyz se rekne "taticek", clovek si automaticky doplni
                    "Masaryk".

                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Helga Listen" <listen@...> wrote:
                    > Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim, coz
                    (dle meho > textu) TGM nenavidel.
                    > Co vlastne nenavidel? To, ze musel/mel hrat Otce naroda, nebo to, ze
                    narod ho do takove rolle vtlacil?
                  • Kateřina Bryanová
                    Bohuzel jsem v te dobe nezila (nebo bohudik?) a ani nejsem velky historik, ale vzpominam si, ze moje babicka vzdycky, kdyz o T.G.Masarykovi mluvila, pouzivala
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                      Bohuzel jsem v te dobe nezila (nebo bohudik?) a ani nejsem velky historik,
                      ale vzpominam si, ze moje babicka vzdycky, kdyz o T.G.Masarykovi mluvila,
                      pouzivala "titul": taticek Masaryk... Myslim, ze obycejny lid tim vyjadroval
                      krome ucty, kterou jiste pan prezident vzbuzoval, i lasku k nemu. Mozna to
                      Masarykovi znelo prilis lacine, nebo v tom opravdu videl to, co poslal
                      Melvyn ve svem odkazu: http://pages.citebite.com/y1p9v2f2u3fib
                      Ale jiste je, ze "taticek Masaryk" bylo sklonovano ve ve v�ech padech a
                      bezne pouzivano... Zrejme to povazoval za nedustojne... Ale to jsou jen
                      dohady. Chtelo by to nazor pametnika.. :-)
                      kacka


                      On 7/4/07, Helga Listen <listen@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > S tim by se mozna dalo neco udelat: "landesvatern/ausgelandesvatert" by
                      > mozna v uvozovkach slo.
                      > Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim, coz (dle meho
                      > textu) TGM nenavidel.
                      > Co vlastne nenavidel? To, ze musel/mel hrat Otce naroda, nebo to, ze narod
                      > ho do takove rolle vtlacil?
                      > Dekuji
                      > Helga
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Preklady@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Preklady@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      > Of �echov� Eva, Mgr.
                      >
                      > V nemeckem textu jsem nasla pouziti die "Rolle eines Landesvaters", coz se
                      > mi i libi. Takze by slo pro "dotatickovani"
                      > treba pouzit "die Rolle des Landesvaters hat ihr Ende", nebo tak nejak
                      > podobne.
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      > �berpr�ft durch AVG.
                      > Version: 7.5.476 / Virendatenbank: 269.9.14/885 - Ausgabedatum: 03.07.2007
                      > 10:02
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Anglicke krouzky:
                      > http://zehrovak.googlepages.com/circles
                      >
                      > Lokativ - terminologicky slovnik:
                      > http://www.lokativ.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Helga Listen
                      Omlouvam se za neznalost ceskych dejin! Opravdu lide TGM jaksi „zboznovali“??? To by bylo skvele, protoze tak bych mela vhodny preklad. Vergoettern – Aus
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                        Omlouvam se za neznalost ceskych dejin! Opravdu lide TGM jaksi
                        �zboznovali�??? To by bylo skvele, protoze tak bych mela vhodny preklad.
                        Vergoettern � Aus mit der Vergoetterung

                        Helga



                        _____

                        From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of spektrum2002



                        Ja myslim, ze nesnasel, ze se tak k nemu lide chovali. Kdybys misto
                        "taticek" rekla "Buh", tak k "tatickovani" ma nejbliz "zboznova'ni'-".
                        Petr Adamek
                        P.S. Vsimla sis, ze v soucasne ceske (nevim, jak moravske) cestine se
                        slovo "taticek" jako zdrobnelina otce prakticky nepouziva, rikame
                        "tatinek". Takze kdyz se rekne "taticek", clovek si automaticky doplni
                        "Masaryk".

                        --- In HYPERLINK
                        "mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com"Czechlist@..., "Helga
                        Listen" <listen@...> wrote:
                        > Ale stale mi neni uplne jazny, co stoji za tim tatickovanim, coz
                        (dle meho > textu) TGM nenavidel.
                        > Co vlastne nenavidel? To, ze musel/mel hrat Otce naroda, nebo to, ze
                        narod ho do takove rolle vtlacil?


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                      • Hana Jarolímová
                        Ano, to tam klidne dej, oni k nemu vzhlizeli jako k modle. Hanka
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jul 4, 2007
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                          Ano, to tam klidne dej, oni k nemu vzhlizeli jako k modle.
                          Hanka
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