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Re: [Czechlist] Re: Help: Pedagogika volneho casu

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  • James Kirchner
    ... Yes, but I also demonstrated that official names of organizations can turn up far more hits than the generic terms for whatever they do. ... Sometimes
    Message 1 of 66 , May 27, 2007
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      On May 27, 2007, at 6:04 PM, Liz Spacilova wrote:

      > > > degree concentration "language pedagogy" over 13,000 returns
      > > > degree concentration "language education" 81,000 returns
      > >
      > > You're making my point by showing that "language education" is
      > six
      > > times more common than "language pedagogy".
      >
      > Wasn't U3A six times more common than ... what did you say ...
      > senior learning?

      Yes, but I also demonstrated that official names of organizations can
      turn up far more hits than the generic terms for whatever they do.

      > > Do you think that the program in "Hebrew language pedagogy" (which
      > IS
      > > weird-sounding, I'm sorry) at the University of Texas is mostly
      > > staffed by Texans?
      >
      > Who knows. George II is from New England like me, just with a
      > pretend accent. Goodness, and look at him ...

      Sometimes people wind up picking up the accent of the place and the
      people they identify with. Notice that his dad was born and raised
      in New England, and he doesn't have a New England accent either. He
      speaks General American with a slight Texas twang. I mean the DAD,
      not the son.

      I had a classmate from England at art school, and everyone is
      slightly suspicious of her, because her accent has not diluted one
      iota in decades of living in the US. So it cuts both ways.

      But having taught in the University of Michigan system, I can tell
      you that few of the departmental bigwigs calling the shots in flyover
      country universities are locals, they don't identify with the riff-
      raff, and they often seem to go out of their way to differentiate
      their language from that of normal people. Universities are almost
      the only places in the US that ask for a "CV" instead of a "résumé".

      > > the collocation "Hebrew language education" is more than 20 times
      > > more common than "Hebrew language pedagogy",
      >
      > ok, one means the study of teaching the Hebrew language and the
      > other means ... Hebrew language education.

      One means the study of teaching the Hebrew language OR the practice
      of teaching the Hebrew language, OR the practice of teaching IN the
      Hebrew language. The other can mean the study of teaching the Hebrew
      language, OR the practice of teaching in the Hebrew language, OR
      being taught the Hebrew language, OR being taught IN the Hebrew
      language.

      This is why in the previous post I searched using the names or
      results of various language pedagogy/education programs. You get a
      more specific search result for what we're looking for if you mention
      that it's a major in X education/pedagogy or a degree in it.
      Otherwise you risk mixing in all those other meanings too much.

      > > ... off the subject ...
      >
      > > Czech
      > > misuse or overuse of terms like "pedagogy"
      >
      > Agree with overuse. What was the first sentence of my first post on
      > this subject? ... the point here, though, is that in this case the
      > use of pedagogy is completely kosher.

      But not necessarily normal sounding.

      > > ... more off subject ...
      >
      > > If Czechs used the words "education" and "pedagogy" correctly,
      > > then
      > > you'd hear more about education than pedagogy, and you'd see more
      > > education faculties than pedagogical faculties. As it is, the
      > > proportions are flipped over, and so you hear inappropriately
      > > frequent use of the word "pedagogy". Even some of the posts in
      > this
      > > thread indicated that some Czechs didn't know that "education" is
      > > commonly used -- or even can be used -- to mean the same thing as
      > > "pedagogika", and apparently thought "pedagogika = pedagogy,
      > > education = vzdelani", which is wrong.
      >
      > Wow, it's like you don't read what gets posted.

      I read it. The respondent was clearly confused about the overlap
      between "education" and "pedagogy", or didn't even know about it. He
      was even addressing me as kind of an idiot because I saw overlap
      where he didn't.

      > > And I think many NES's resident in the CR start to lose their
      > feel
      > > for correct or even normal English usage. I know I did.
      >
      > Thank ... hmmm, who, the US Government and Bill and the folks at
      > Skype, I guess ... for the Internet!

      Huh?

      JK




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    • Bedrich Hadziu
      Thank you for the treatise, Jamie. Although it has not changed my opinion about the original issue, you certainly are a prolific GROUP contributor. Take it
      Message 66 of 66 , Jun 6, 2007
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        Thank you for the treatise, Jamie.

        Although it has not changed my opinion about the original issue, you certainly are a prolific GROUP contributor.

        Take it easy!

        Bedrich

        James Kirchner <jpklists@...> wrote:

        On Jun 3, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Bedrich Hadziu wrote:

        >> "A problem with this term "the third age" in particular -- other than
        >> it sounding like it came from a science fiction novel or a
        >> Scientology tract -- is that the idea of there being "three ages" is
        >> out of kilter with the American view of age and maturation, which is
        >> VERY different from that in France or Eastern Europe."
        >
        > Is it really "out of kilter" with the American view of age and
        > maturation?

        Yes.

        -- When I moved to the CR, I at first thought that babies I saw on
        the street were being accompanied by their older sisters, but the
        girls were their mothers.
        -- When I got home, after having gotten used to the CR for a few
        years, I thought I saw many babies in my neighborhood being pushed
        down the street by their grandmothers, but the women were really
        their mothers.

        -- A Czech woman I knew had her first baby at 34 and was constantly
        getting hassle about having had a child "late", and this prejudice
        sometimes even impaired her access to pediatric medical care. In the
        US, it's not "late" to have a baby at 34, and having one at 40 is not
        odd.

        -- Czech people's children typically start moving out of the house
        when the parents are in their late 30s, but in the US it's when
        they're in their early to mid-50s.

        -- Job seekers in the CR start having trouble with age
        discrimination around age 40, but in the US that doesn't start until
        at least 10 years later.

        -- Czech women start being considered "too old" for marriage
        somewhere in their mid-20s (although the age is certainly creeping up
        now), whereas in the US it's the mid- to late 30s.

        -- Germans (I don't know about Czechs) typically think that in their
        mid-30s they're too old to change careers. Americans change careers
        anytime.

        -- Many Czechs as young as their mid-30s in adult classes complain
        that their brains are "old" and that they can't be expected to learn
        easily. Most Americans don't start talking about this until about
        their 60s.

        -- This is probably also changing, but many Americans have trouble
        discerning Czech people's ages until they've lived in the CR for a
        year or so. The typical explanation from one American to another
        (particularly about the women) has been, "They look 18 for years
        until at a certain age they suddenly look 50." (Obviously, this is
        an exaggeration, but it has some truth.)

        -- A Czech kid took a trip here and wanted me to take him to visit
        the family of his grandfather, whom he'd never met. (His grandfather
        had been a GI in Marianske Lazne at the end of WWII.) The kid told
        me that his grandfather wasn't alive, but that he wanted to visit is
        son. When we got to the house, we found it was not occupied by the
        son, but by the grandfather. Later I asked the kid, "Why did you
        think your grandfather was dead?" He replied, "Because in my
        country, if you're that age, you're dead."

        We view age QUITE differently in the States than elsewhere.

        Jamie

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