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Re: [Czechlist] Re: skusenosti s Mac OS

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  • James Kirchner
    Radek, people have to keep in mind that you haven t used a Mac since the mid-1990s. That may seem like only yesterday to you and me, but in the computer world
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 13, 2006
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      Radek, people have to keep in mind that you haven't used a Mac since
      the mid-1990s. That may seem like only yesterday to you and me, but
      in the computer world it's an eternity. It was before Apple switched
      to a Unix system and before it was Unicode compliant. There are none
      of those conversion problems that existed 11 years ago. It was a
      completely different operating system then, and there is much more
      software and much better compatibility now than there was then.
      > Vzhledem k tomu, ze 99.9 procenta jobu ti bude prichazed od klientu z
      > prostredi Windows, pridavas si zbytecny problem a zbytecny krok navic.
      > Navic za stejne vykonny notebook od Apple stale zaplatis o zhruba 30
      > procent vice nez za ten samy PC notebook.
      The purchase price isn't the only thing to consider. With PCs there
      is also the cost of time lost in dealing with viruses, spyware,
      problems "degunking" the system when it starts to run too slowly,
      problems with compatibility of peripherals, etc. There is also the
      cost of software to deal with those problems. At the last company
      where I worked, in which some of the staff used Windows and some had
      Macs, the tech staff claimed that on average each Mac saved the
      company $150 to $250 per year, despite the higher purchase price,
      just because it didn't cause all those support problems. And I
      haven't had a virus or spyware problem in over 8 years.

      I've got some PC users who'll tell you plenty about that.
      > Takze pocitej se mnou
      > 30 procent navic za Apple
      > mene softwaru a je drazsi
      > potencionalni problemy pri dorucovani souboru
      There's no problem with file delivery anymore. None. Files don't
      have to be converted, and most important of all, text encoding
      doesn't have to be converted. My clients don't even know my files
      were done on a Mac, and it's been about 10 years since an agency has
      contacted me just to convert a Mac file to PC format. This problem
      just doesn't exist now.
      > Navic k tomu musis pripocitat, ze MAC je vlastne pouze niche platform
      > Zeptej se 100 uspesnych ceskych/slovenskych prekladatelu, kolik z nich
      > pracuje pouze na MACu. Predpokladam ze odpoved bude nekde mezi 0-1.
      > Any questions?
      But, again, it doesn't matter, because there are no conversion
      problems and clients don't have any problems with the files produced
      by a Mac. Any Windows-only application can be run on the Mac in
      Windows mode, but all normal functions with MS Office and
      applications in general use will be done in the normal Mac OS, and
      without conversion problems.
      > Jediny logicky duvod pro MAC by mohlo byt to, ze poskytujes high level
      > DTP, ktere se stale jeste dela na MACu, ale MAC notebook, ktery by mel
      > na tohle dostatecny vykon a dobrou obrazovku, by te i v USA stal nekde
      > kolem $3000, tady mas links
      > http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?
      > family=MacBookPro
      > 17 inchove zacinaji na $2799
      I bought mine for about $1,200, and it runs Adobe and Macromedia
      graphics applications just fine.
      > PS. Posledniho MAca jsem si koupil v roce 95, kdy jsem dostal job za
      > 65,000 USD, ktery se musel delat na MACu.
      That's why you don't know how Macs currently operate. It's a nice
      story, but it's irrelevant to anyone thinking about buying a Mac in
      2006.

      Jamie
    • Martin Janda
      Vim, ze jsem jako PC-ckar uzivatelsky deformovany, a samozrejme nic nevim o ovladani a jinych uzasnych vyhodach Meku, ale Radkovy duvody plati. U Applu je HW
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 16, 2006
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        Vim, ze jsem jako PC-ckar uzivatelsky deformovany, a samozrejme nic nevim o ovladani a jinych uzasnych vyhodach Meku, ale Radkovy duvody plati. U Applu je HW drazsi, SW drazsi, nektere formaty tam proste neprelozis a hlavne - veskere novinky (nove formaty, programy atd.) se k Mekum dostavaji se znacnym zpozdenim, pokud tam vubec dorazi. A potencial problemu s kompatibilitou tam je - snad dnes mensi nez driv, ale zvlast u novych formatu je urcite.

        K te nachylnosti na viry u PC - myslim, ze je dnes v mode tohle precenovat. Jamie ma jiste pravdu, v tomto smeru bude Mac na udrzbu levnejsi, ale dodavam, ze jen s pitomymi firemnimi uzivateli. Mam slusne funkcni a automaticky aktualizovany firewall, zaplaty na Windows, antivirus, a nepouzivam postaka a prohlizec od MS - a nemel jsem s viry a jinou haveti problem snad 6 let.

        Jinymi slovy - pokud jsi - bezpecnostne - nezkuseny uzivatel, neprekladas nic nez wordovske dokumenty nebo snad jeste formaty Office, nebo mas Apple z nejakeho duvodu jako srdecni zalezitost, tak pak Mac ano.

        Martin




        4b. Re: skusenosti s Mac OS
        Posted by: "James Kirchner" jpklists@... kirchnerjk
        Date: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:38 am (PDT)

        Radek, people have to keep in mind that you haven't used a Mac since
        the mid-1990s. That may seem like only yesterday to you and me, but
        in the computer world it's an eternity. It was before Apple switched
        to a Unix system and before it was Unicode compliant. There are none
        of those conversion problems that existed 11 years ago. It was a
        completely different operating system then, and there is much more
        software and much better compatibility now than there was then.

        > > Vzhledem k tomu, ze 99.9 procenta jobu ti bude prichazed od klientu z
        > > prostredi Windows, pridavas si zbytecny problem a zbytecny krok navic.
        > > Navic za stejne vykonny notebook od Apple stale zaplatis o zhruba 30
        > > procent vice nez za ten samy PC notebook.
        >
        The purchase price isn't the only thing to consider. With PCs there
        is also the cost of time lost in dealing with viruses, spyware,
        problems "degunking" the system when it starts to run too slowly,
        problems with compatibility of peripherals, etc. There is also the
        cost of software to deal with those problems. At the last company
        where I worked, in which some of the staff used Windows and some had
        Macs, the tech staff claimed that on average each Mac saved the
        company $150 to $250 per year, despite the higher purchase price,
        just because it didn't cause all those support problems. And I
        haven't had a virus or spyware problem in over 8 years.

        I've got some PC users who'll tell you plenty about that.

        > > Takze pocitej se mnou
        > > 30 procent navic za Apple
        > > mene softwaru a je drazsi
        > > potencionalni problemy pri dorucovani souboru
        >
        There's no problem with file delivery anymore. None. Files don't
        have to be converted, and most important of all, text encoding
        doesn't have to be converted. My clients don't even know my files
        were done on a Mac, and it's been about 10 years since an agency has
        contacted me just to convert a Mac file to PC format. This problem
        just doesn't exist now.

        > > Navic k tomu musis pripocitat, ze MAC je vlastne pouze niche platform
        > > Zeptej se 100 uspesnych ceskych/slovenskych prekladatelu, kolik z nich
        > > pracuje pouze na MACu. Predpokladam ze odpoved bude nekde mezi 0-1.
        > > Any questions?
        >
        But, again, it doesn't matter, because there are no conversion
        problems and clients don't have any problems with the files produced
        by a Mac. Any Windows-only application can be run on the Mac in
        Windows mode, but all normal functions with MS Office and
        applications in general use will be done in the normal Mac OS, and
        without conversion problems.

        > > Jediny logicky duvod pro MAC by mohlo byt to, ze poskytujes high level
        > > DTP, ktere se stale jeste dela na MACu, ale MAC notebook, ktery by mel
        > > na tohle dostatecny vykon a dobrou obrazovku, by te i v USA stal nekde
        > > kolem $3000, tady mas links
        > > http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?
        > > family=MacBookPro
        > > 17 inchove zacinaji na $2799
        >
        I bought mine for about $1,200, and it runs Adobe and Macromedia
        graphics applications just fine.

        > > PS. Posledniho MAca jsem si koupil v roce 95, kdy jsem dostal job za
        > > 65,000 USD, ktery se musel delat na MACu.
        >
        That's why you don't know how Macs currently operate. It's a nice
        story, but it's irrelevant to anyone thinking about buying a Mac in
        2006.

        Jamie
      • James Kirchner
        ... Yes, the hardware is more expensive. The software isn t more expensive. What software are you thinking of? I buy all the programs for the same price PC
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 16, 2006
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          On Oct 16, 2006, at 3:44 AM, Martin Janda wrote:

          > Vim, ze jsem jako PC-ckar uzivatelsky deformovany, a samozrejme nic
          > nevim o ovladani a jinych uzasnych vyhodach Meku, ale Radkovy
          > duvody plati. U Applu je HW drazsi, SW drazsi,

          Yes, the hardware is more expensive. The software isn't more
          expensive. What software are you thinking of? I buy all the
          programs for the same price PC users do.

          > nektere formaty tam proste neprelozis a hlavne - veskere novinky
          > (nove formaty, programy atd.) se k Mekum dostavaji se znacnym
          > zpozdenim, pokud tam vubec dorazi. A potencial problemu s
          > kompatibilitou tam je - snad dnes mensi nez driv, ale zvlast u
          > novych formatu je urcite.

          This hasn't been a problem for me in eight years.

          > K te nachylnosti na viry u PC - myslim, ze je dnes v mode tohle
          > precenovat. Jamie ma jiste pravdu, v tomto smeru bude Mac na udrzbu
          > levnejsi, ale dodavam, ze jen s pitomymi firemnimi uzivateli. Mam
          > slusne funkcni a automaticky aktualizovany firewall, zaplaty na
          > Windows, antivirus, a nepouzivam postaka a prohlizec od MS - a
          > nemel jsem s viry a jinou haveti problem snad 6 let.

          I hear this from some PC users, and I also know some PC users
          (Windows experts, programmers, etc.) who have their PCs partially or
          completely disabled for periods of days to months because of viruses
          that got past their firewall and that their virus protection software
          couldn't detect or delete.

          There is also the problem of Windows turning on strange, needless
          programs in the background that slow down the machine. This means
          that with some regularity people have to go into the system and shut
          all this stuff off, and then the game starts over again, as Windows
          starts turning those little programs on again.

          > Jinymi slovy - pokud jsi - bezpecnostne - nezkuseny uzivatel,
          > neprekladas nic nez wordovske dokumenty nebo snad jeste formaty Office

          Not "snad". All MS Office programs are completely compatible. So
          are all Adobe programs, Quark XPress, etc., and most other standard
          programs whose formats translators normally have to use. Even the
          fonts are interchangeable from one platform to the other.

          Jamie
        • andrea kleinova
          Podobne ako Jamie som si uvedomila, ze nazory na Mac su preto tak rozne, lebo ludia porovnavaju skusenosti z minulych rokov, co moze byt v pripade pocitacoch
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 16, 2006
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            Podobne ako Jamie som si uvedomila, ze nazory na Mac su preto tak rozne, lebo ludia porovnavaju skusenosti z minulych rokov, co moze byt v pripade pocitacoch davna minulost.
            Nepovazujem sa za neskuseneho uzivatela, nie som ani v sieti s ludmi, ktori by neskuseni a neopatrni boli, ale prave ochrana (virusova, firewallova a ina.) mi paradne pracu spomaluje. Uvedomujem si, ze Mac je drahsi (na Slovensku MacBook 1,8 Ghz za cca 49000 sk). Mna zaujima to, co mi kazdy uzivatel Macu povie a sice, ze je omnoho stabilnejsi a prijemnejsi na ovladanie. A tiez to, aby som si o nejaky rok-dva nemusela kupit novy pocitac, lebo uz vykonom nebude stacit. Objavila som cloveka, ktory si macbook nedavno kupil, tak si pojdem odskusat ako to s tou vynimocnostou Macov je.

            Andrea

            James Kirchner <jpklists@...> wrote:
            On Oct 16, 2006, at 3:44 AM, Martin Janda wrote:

            > Vim, ze jsem jako PC-ckar uzivatelsky deformovany, a samozrejme nic
            > nevim o ovladani a jinych uzasnych vyhodach Meku, ale Radkovy
            > duvody plati. U Applu je HW drazsi, SW drazsi,

            Yes, the hardware is more expensive. The software isn't more
            expensive. What software are you thinking of? I buy all the
            programs for the same price PC users do.

            > nektere formaty tam proste neprelozis a hlavne - veskere novinky
            > (nove formaty, programy atd.) se k Mekum dostavaji se znacnym
            > zpozdenim, pokud tam vubec dorazi. A potencial problemu s
            > kompatibilitou tam je - snad dnes mensi nez driv, ale zvlast u
            > novych formatu je urcite.

            This hasn't been a problem for me in eight years.

            > K te nachylnosti na viry u PC - myslim, ze je dnes v mode tohle
            > precenovat. Jamie ma jiste pravdu, v tomto smeru bude Mac na udrzbu
            > levnejsi, ale dodavam, ze jen s pitomymi firemnimi uzivateli. Mam
            > slusne funkcni a automaticky aktualizovany firewall, zaplaty na
            > Windows, antivirus, a nepouzivam postaka a prohlizec od MS - a
            > nemel jsem s viry a jinou haveti problem snad 6 let.

            I hear this from some PC users, and I also know some PC users
            (Windows experts, programmers, etc.) who have their PCs partially or
            completely disabled for periods of days to months because of viruses
            that got past their firewall and that their virus protection software
            couldn't detect or delete.

            There is also the problem of Windows turning on strange, needless
            programs in the background that slow down the machine. This means
            that with some regularity people have to go into the system and shut
            all this stuff off, and then the game starts over again, as Windows
            starts turning those little programs on again.

            > Jinymi slovy - pokud jsi - bezpecnostne - nezkuseny uzivatel,
            > neprekladas nic nez wordovske dokumenty nebo snad jeste formaty Office

            Not "snad". All MS Office programs are completely compatible. So
            are all Adobe programs, Quark XPress, etc., and most other standard
            programs whose formats translators normally have to use. Even the
            fonts are interchangeable from one platform to the other.

            Jamie






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