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TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod (zakona)

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  • Jirka Bolech
    Hi there, It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents) the texts are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
    Message 1 of 27 , May 17, 2006
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      Hi there,

      It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents) the texts
      are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I suppose
      "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section', "odstavec"
      as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be simply
      'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
      translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
      English-speaking countries?

      Jirka Bolech
    • Prekladatelsky servis Pecinkova
      For example, cl. 10 odst. 4 pism. e) is translated into English as art. 10 (4) (e) - confirmed also by Chroma. Iveta ... From: Jirka Bolech
      Message 2 of 27 , May 17, 2006
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        For example,
        cl. 10 odst. 4 pism. e) is translated into English as art. 10 (4) (e) -
        confirmed also by Chroma.

        Iveta

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Jirka Bolech" <jirka.bolech@...>
        To: "Czechlist on Smartgroups" <czechlist@...>; "Czechlist on
        Yahoogroups" <czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:12 PM
        Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
        (zakona)


        Hi there,

        It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents) the texts
        are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I suppose
        "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section', "odstavec"
        as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be simply
        'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
        translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
        English-speaking countries?

        Jirka Bolech





        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • James Kirchner
        I think that once you get below the paragraph level, things are a little fluid. I have heard and seen pismeno referred to as both item and letter ,
        Message 3 of 27 , May 17, 2006
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          I think that once you get below the paragraph level, things are a
          little fluid. I have heard and seen "pismeno" referred to as both
          "item" and "letter", although the second one bothers me just a
          little. "Bod" can also be item, or it can be "point". Lists have
          items, but since the things in front of the items can be numbers or
          bullet points, they can also be points, especially when they intend
          to make a point, rather than just list something.

          Jamie

          On May 17, 2006, at 4:12 PM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

          > Hi there,
          >
          > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
          > the texts
          > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
          > suppose
          > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
          > "odstavec"
          > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be simply
          > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
          > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
          > English-speaking countries?
          >
          > Jirka Bolech
          >
          >
          >
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        • Karel Navrátil
          Here´s a hint. Element Name: subparagraph Description: A hierarchical structure of a measure. This level is contained directly with paragraphs. Levels
          Message 4 of 27 , May 17, 2006
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            Here´s a hint.


            Element Name: subparagraph
            Description: A hierarchical structure of a measure. This level is contained
            directly with paragraphs. Levels contained within subparagraphs are clauses,
            subclauses, items, and subitems. Subparagraphs are normally enumerated with
            an uppercased alpha character within parentheses (e.g., (A)). After reaching
            (Z), subparagraphs are enumerated with double letters (e.g., (AA), (BB),
            (CC), etc.).


            http://xml.house.gov/subparagraph.html

            Karel


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Jirka Bolech
            Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
            To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
            Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
            (zakona)

            Hi there,

            It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents) the texts
            are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I suppose
            "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section', "odstavec"
            as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be simply
            'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
            translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
            English-speaking countries?

            Jirka Bolech





            Yahoo! Groups Links







            --
            Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry.
            Zkontrolováno Antivirovým systémem AVG.
            Verze: 7.1.392 / Virová báze: 268.6.0/342 - datum vydání: 17.5.2006
          • James Kirchner
            Wow! You can t really argue with that, although different countries and states might handle it differently.. Much better than my answer. Good one, Karel.
            Message 5 of 27 , May 17, 2006
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              Wow! You can't really argue with that, although different countries
              and states might handle it differently.. Much better than my
              answer. Good one, Karel.

              Jamie

              On May 18, 2006, at 2:08 AM, Karel Navrátil wrote:

              > Here´s a hint.
              >
              >
              > Element Name: subparagraph
              > Description: A hierarchical structure of a measure. This level is
              > contained
              > directly with paragraphs. Levels contained within subparagraphs are
              > clauses,
              > subclauses, items, and subitems. Subparagraphs are normally
              > enumerated with
              > an uppercased alpha character within parentheses (e.g., (A)). After
              > reaching
              > (Z), subparagraphs are enumerated with double letters (e.g., (AA),
              > (BB),
              > (CC), etc.).
              >
              >
              > http://xml.house.gov/subparagraph.html
              >
              > Karel
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf
              > Of Jirka Bolech
              > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
              > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
              > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
              > (zakona)
              >
              > Hi there,
              >
              > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
              > the texts
              > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
              > suppose
              > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
              > "odstavec"
              > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be simply
              > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
              > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
              > English-speaking countries?
              >
              > Jirka Bolech
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry.
              > Zkontrolováno Antivirovým systémem AVG.
              > Verze: 7.1.392 / Virová báze: 268.6.0/342 - datum vydání: 17.5.2006
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • Jirka Bolech
              Oh, and thanks, Iveta, too...
              Message 6 of 27 , May 18, 2006
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                Oh, and thanks, Iveta, too...
              • Jirka Bolech
                Great thanks, Jamie and Karel: The system Karel found is really that: systematic. I like it too. It should produce: article section paragraph subparagraph
                Message 7 of 27 , May 18, 2006
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                  Great thanks, Jamie and Karel:

                  The system Karel found is really that: systematic. I like it too. It should
                  produce:

                  article
                  section
                  paragraph
                  subparagraph
                  clause
                  subclause
                  item
                  subitem

                  I figure, for the list I queried about, I could do without the sub-words as
                  well...

                  Jirka Bolech
                • tritt002@umn.edu
                  ... Sorry I didn t check mail last night. That s a good list Karel cited. Just a caveat, though: it s only part of the federal scheme; there are no rules
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 18, 2006
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                    On May 18 2006, Jirka Bolech wrote:
                    >Great thanks, Jamie and Karel:
                    >
                    >The system Karel found is really that: systematic. I like it too. It should
                    >produce:
                    >
                    >article
                    >section
                    >paragraph
                    >subparagraph
                    >clause
                    >subclause
                    >item
                    >subitem

                    Sorry I didn't check mail last night. That's a good list Karel cited. Just
                    a caveat, though: it's only part of the federal scheme; there are no rules
                    applicable across all English-speaking jurisdictions nor even across all
                    the United States. Each of the 50 states has a different typical way of
                    structuring its statutes, and a different typical citation scheme. For that
                    matter, legislation and regulations may not share a division-naming
                    hierarchy. Ditto other English-speaking countries. Some like citations to
                    titles and sections, others to chapters and paragraphs, others to subject
                    and section, others to parts, and so on. There's nothing quite like the
                    Czech legislativni pravidla as seen at
                    http://www.senat.cz/info/navrhzak/dokumentace/pravidla.htm.

                    Moreover, in most English-speaking jurisdictions, there's generally no need
                    to spell out subdivisions as Czech law mandates. Section 5(a)(ii)(B) is
                    preferred to para. 5 odst. a pism. ii bod B. Beyond that, there's no rule
                    saying what name (a) or (ii) should have: the main rule is that every
                    labeled or lettered division down the line has to be included. That makes
                    it unnecessary to bother saying what names they have. So going in the
                    Cz>Eng. direction, some might argue that it's OK to leave the translation
                    implicit instead of explicit.

                    One last note: it's not common in any U.S. jurisdiction to refer to items,
                    letters, points, or indents. So since a pododstavec can come right under an
                    odstavec just as a pismo can, sometimes it might be better to translate
                    pismo as subparagraph than as letter. Then, since "sentence" can be used
                    for "veta" ("phrase" being never used in citation, only in discussion),
                    "clause" becomes free for "bod," and one can use "subclause" after that.
                    The words "item" and "point" jar a bit, although they do have the virtue of
                    being more readily back-translated correctly (which is also an argument for
                    using "letter" for pismo, instead of "subparagraph," although I prefer the
                    latter).
                  • Josef Hlavac
                    Jirka, don t forget to fit in indent for odrazka - quite common in EU legislation. And unlike pismeno , odstavec etc., it is referred to explicitly: cl.
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 18, 2006
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                      Jirka,

                      don't forget to fit in "indent" for "odrazka" - quite common in EU
                      legislation. And unlike "pismeno", "odstavec" etc., it is referred to
                      explicitly:

                      cl. 10 odst. 2 pism. e) treti odrazka = Article 10(2)(e) third indent

                      Joe

                      Jirka Bolech wrote:
                      > Great thanks, Jamie and Karel:
                      >
                      > The system Karel found is really that: systematic. I like it too. It should
                      > produce:
                      >
                      > article
                      > section
                      > paragraph
                      > subparagraph
                      > clause
                      > subclause
                      > item
                      > subitem
                      >
                      > I figure, for the list I queried about, I could do without the sub-words as
                      > well...
                      >
                      > Jirka Bolech
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Jirka Bolech
                      Thanks a lot, Michael, for your very educational posting on the topic. In principle, the word I needed to be hinted at most was clause , but your comments
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 18, 2006
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                        Thanks a lot, Michael, for your very educational posting on the topic.

                        In principle, the word I needed to be hinted at most was 'clause', but your
                        comments about unsuitability of 'item', at least from the US legalese's
                        point of view, is worth heeding I guess. Most of all, though, I really have
                        those longish references mentioning each level by its name, so if I can
                        trust the statutes dealt with in my document are strictly structured as I
                        show in the Subject, I should consider the single-level-reference way you
                        describe as widely used in the English-speaking world, I suppose.

                        On a similar note I omit including this funny abbreviation "Coll." for
                        "Sbirky" after the number of each statute in Czech. Why support redundancy?
                        I can keep it as a translator, but if I don't it will hurt nobody...

                        Jirka Bolech
                      • Michael
                        ... Now that, I always keep; that fits the pattern of English citations, and is required by the Bluebook.
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 18, 2006
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                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jirka Bolech" <jirka.bolech@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On a similar note I omit including this funny abbreviation "Coll." for
                          > "Sbirky" after the number of each statute in Czech. . . .
                          > I can keep it as a translator, but if I don't it will hurt nobody...

                          Now that, I always keep; that fits the pattern of English citations,
                          and is required by the Bluebook.
                        • Jirka Bolech
                          Additional thanks to Josef: It s true the translation I need this for now is probably to be read by some Dutch folks and they may be used to EU terminology and
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 19, 2006
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                            Additional thanks to Josef:

                            It's true the translation I need this for now is probably to be read by some
                            Dutch folks and they may be used to EU terminology and conventions...

                            Jirka Bolech
                          • Jirka Bolech
                            ... and is required by the Bluebook. As I say, I have no problem including it, but I still find it useless, especially if it s repeated over and over in a
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 19, 2006
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                              > Now that, I always keep; that fits the pattern of English citations,
                              and is required by the Bluebook.

                              As I say, I have no problem including it, but I still find it useless,
                              especially if it's repeated over and over in a document, and prefer omitting
                              it when it's not very official. Anyway, it's good to learn it is sort of
                              required...

                              Jirka Bolech
                            • meluzina_x
                              I ve searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the specified terms, but couldn t seem to find anything more, so my apologies in advance if there
                              Message 14 of 27 , Aug 4, 2008
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                                I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                apologies in advance if there is something more recent.

                                I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                into English, not vice versa).

                                This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                good definition of the structure used within the EU.

                                This link:
                                http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy.pdf

                                is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.

                                Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                discussed in this thread.

                                Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                level):

                                Cast
                                Hlava
                                Dil
                                Oddil
                                Pododdil
                                Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                which use Clanek for this level)
                                Odstavec
                                Pododstavec
                                Bod

                                Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the following:

                                Part Část
                                Title Hlava
                                Chapter Díl
                                Section Oddíl
                                Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                Paragraph Odstavec
                                Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                Point Bod

                                Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                docs that use it.)

                                Thanks in advance.


                                P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.

                                Regards,

                                Veronika


                                > >
                                > >
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                > > On Behalf
                                > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                > > (zakona)
                                > >
                                > > Hi there,
                                > >
                                > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                > > the texts
                                > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
                                > > suppose
                                > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                > > "odstavec"
                                > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be simply
                                > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                > > English-speaking countries?
                                > >
                                > > Jirka Bolech
                                > >
                              • Šárka Rubková
                                Ahoj Jirko, ja to prekladam nasledovne: clanek = article paragraf = section odstavec = subsection pismeno = paragraph bod = subparagraph Jednou jsem mela
                                Message 15 of 27 , Aug 5, 2008
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                                  Ahoj Jirko,

                                  ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                  clanek = article
                                  paragraf = section
                                  odstavec = subsection
                                  pismeno = paragraph
                                  bod = subparagraph

                                  Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a nejak se
                                  doslo k tomuhle reseni.

                                  sarka

                                  -------Original Message-------

                                  From: meluzina_x
                                  Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                  (zakona)

                                  I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                  specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                  apologies in advance if there is something more recent.

                                  I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                  legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                  into English, not vice versa).

                                  This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                  good definition of the structure used within the EU.

                                  This link:
                                  http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                  pdf

                                  is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.

                                  Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                  structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                  discussed in this thread.

                                  Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                  legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                  level):

                                  Cast
                                  Hlava
                                  Dil
                                  Oddil
                                  Pododdil
                                  Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                  which use Clanek for this level)
                                  Odstavec
                                  Pododstavec
                                  Bod

                                  Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the following:

                                  Part Část
                                  Title Hlava
                                  Chapter Díl
                                  Section Oddíl
                                  Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                  Paragraph Odstavec
                                  Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                  Point Bod

                                  Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                  no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                  docs that use it.)

                                  Thanks in advance.

                                  P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                  this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                  e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.

                                  Regards,

                                  Veronika

                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                  > > On Behalf
                                  > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                  > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                  > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                  > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                  > > (zakona)
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi there,
                                  > >
                                  > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                  > > the texts
                                  > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
                                  > > suppose
                                  > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                  > > "odstavec"
                                  > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be simply
                                  > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                  > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                  > > English-speaking countries?
                                  > >
                                  > > Jirka Bolech
                                  > >





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • meluzina_x
                                  Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou thread vytahla, je, ze nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil section subsection na article paragraph - a obracene take.
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
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                                    Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                    nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                    "paragraph" - a obracene take.

                                    Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                    http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy.pdf,

                                    paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                                    zakonech...

                                    jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...

                                    http://ec.europa.eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs.pdf

                                    anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf

                                    podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                                    asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                                    anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".

                                    Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(

                                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Ahoj Jirko,
                                    >
                                    > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                    > clanek = article
                                    > paragraf = section
                                    > odstavec = subsection
                                    > pismeno = paragraph
                                    > bod = subparagraph
                                    >
                                    > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                    nejak se
                                    > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                    >
                                    > sarka
                                    >
                                    > -------Original Message-------
                                    >
                                    > From: meluzina_x
                                    > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                    > (zakona)
                                    >
                                    > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                    > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                    > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                    >
                                    > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                    > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                    > into English, not vice versa).
                                    >
                                    > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                    > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                    >
                                    > This link:
                                    >
                                    http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                    > pdf
                                    >
                                    > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                    >
                                    > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                    > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                    > discussed in this thread.
                                    >
                                    > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                    > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                    > level):
                                    >
                                    > Cast
                                    > Hlava
                                    > Dil
                                    > Oddil
                                    > Pododdil
                                    > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                    > which use Clanek for this level)
                                    > Odstavec
                                    > Pododstavec
                                    > Bod
                                    >
                                    > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                    following:
                                    >
                                    > Part Část
                                    > Title Hlava
                                    > Chapter Díl
                                    > Section Oddíl
                                    > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                    > Paragraph Odstavec
                                    > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                    > Point Bod
                                    >
                                    > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                    > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                    > docs that use it.)
                                    >
                                    > Thanks in advance.
                                    >
                                    > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                    > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                    > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                    >
                                    > Regards,
                                    >
                                    > Veronika
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                    > > > On Behalf
                                    > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                    > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                    > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                    > > > (zakona)
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hi there,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                    > > > the texts
                                    > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
                                    > > > suppose
                                    > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                    > > > "odstavec"
                                    > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                                    simply
                                    > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                    > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                    > > > English-speaking countries?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Jirka Bolech
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Šárka Rubková
                                    Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich, predpisech, smernicich. Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                                      predpisech, smernicich.
                                      Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach, smernicich,
                                      narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.

                                      Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v odkazu,
                                      ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                                      Sarka

                                      -------Original Message-------

                                      From: meluzina_x
                                      Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                      (zakona)

                                      Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                      nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                      "paragraph" - a obracene take.

                                      Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                      http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                      pdf,

                                      paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                                      zakonech...

                                      jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...

                                      http://ec.europa
                                      eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                                      pdf

                                      anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf

                                      podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                                      asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                                      anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".

                                      Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(

                                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Ahoj Jirko,
                                      >
                                      > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                      > clanek = article
                                      > paragraf = section
                                      > odstavec = subsection
                                      > pismeno = paragraph
                                      > bod = subparagraph
                                      >
                                      > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                      nejak se
                                      > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                      >
                                      > sarka
                                      >
                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                      >
                                      > From: meluzina_x
                                      > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                      > (zakona)
                                      >
                                      > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                      > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                      > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                      >
                                      > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                      > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                      > into English, not vice versa).
                                      >
                                      > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                      > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                      >
                                      > This link:
                                      >
                                      http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                      > pdf
                                      >
                                      > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                      >
                                      > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                      > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                      > discussed in this thread.
                                      >
                                      > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                      > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                      > level):
                                      >
                                      > Cast
                                      > Hlava
                                      > Dil
                                      > Oddil
                                      > Pododdil
                                      > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                      > which use Clanek for this level)
                                      > Odstavec
                                      > Pododstavec
                                      > Bod
                                      >
                                      > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                      following:
                                      >
                                      > Part Část
                                      > Title Hlava
                                      > Chapter Díl
                                      > Section Oddíl
                                      > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                      > Paragraph Odstavec
                                      > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                      > Point Bod
                                      >
                                      > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                      > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                      > docs that use it.)
                                      >
                                      > Thanks in advance.
                                      >
                                      > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                      > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                      > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                      >
                                      > Regards,
                                      >
                                      > Veronika
                                      >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                      > > > On Behalf
                                      > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                      > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                      > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                      > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                      > > > (zakona)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hi there,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                      > > > the texts
                                      > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
                                      > > > suppose
                                      > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                      > > > "odstavec"
                                      > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                                      simply
                                      > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                      > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                      > > > English-speaking countries?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Jirka Bolech
                                      > > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Josef Hlavac
                                      Zdravim vespolek, ono asi nejvic zalezi na tom, pro koho je preklad urcen - kazdy zakaznik ma jina pravidla... Josef
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Zdravim vespolek,

                                        ono asi nejvic zalezi na tom, pro koho je preklad urcen - kazdy zakaznik
                                        ma jina pravidla...

                                        Josef


                                        meluzina_x wrote:
                                        > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                        > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                        > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                                        >
                                        > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                        > http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy.pdf,
                                        >
                                        > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                                        > zakonech...
                                        >
                                        > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                                        >
                                        > http://ec.europa.eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs.pdf
                                        >
                                        > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                                        >
                                        > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                                        > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                                        > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                                        >
                                        > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                                        >
                                        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                                        >> Ahoj Jirko,
                                        >>
                                        >> ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                        >> clanek = article
                                        >> paragraf = section
                                        >> odstavec = subsection
                                        >> pismeno = paragraph
                                        >> bod = subparagraph
                                        >>
                                        >> Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                        > nejak se
                                        >> doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                        >>
                                        >> sarka
                                        >>
                                        >> -------Original Message-------
                                        >>
                                        >> From: meluzina_x
                                        >> Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                        >> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        >> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                        >> (zakona)
                                        >>
                                        >> I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                        >> specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                        >> apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                        >>
                                        >> I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                        >> legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                        >> into English, not vice versa).
                                        >>
                                        >> This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                        >> good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                        >>
                                        >> This link:
                                        >>
                                        > http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                        >> pdf
                                        >>
                                        >> is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                        >>
                                        >> Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                        >> structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                        >> discussed in this thread.
                                        >>
                                        >> Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                        >> legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                        >> level):
                                        >>
                                        >> Cast
                                        >> Hlava
                                        >> Dil
                                        >> Oddil
                                        >> Pododdil
                                        >> Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                        >> which use Clanek for this level)
                                        >> Odstavec
                                        >> Pododstavec
                                        >> Bod
                                        >>
                                        >> Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                        > following:
                                        >> Part Část
                                        >> Title Hlava
                                        >> Chapter Díl
                                        >> Section Oddíl
                                        >> Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                        >> Paragraph Odstavec
                                        >> Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                        >> Point Bod
                                        >>
                                        >> Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                        >> no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                        >> docs that use it.)
                                        >>
                                        >> Thanks in advance.
                                        >>
                                        >> P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                        >> this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                        >> e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                        >>
                                        >> Regards,
                                        >>
                                        >> Veronika
                                        >>
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> -----Original Message-----
                                        >>>> From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                        >>>> On Behalf
                                        >>>> Of Jirka Bolech
                                        >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                        >>>> To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                        >>>> Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                        >>>> (zakona)
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> Hi there,
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                        >>>> the texts
                                        >>>> are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject box. I
                                        >>>> suppose
                                        >>>> "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                        >>>> "odstavec"
                                        >>>> as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                                        > simply
                                        >>>> 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                        >>>> translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                        >>>> English-speaking countries?
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> Jirka Bolech
                                        >>>>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                                        > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • meluzina_x
                                        Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:) Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny,
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                                          zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

                                          Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                                          pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                                          vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                                          urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

                                          take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                                          mozna vypada :)


                                          A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                                          Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

                                          Veronika




                                          (19
                                          Čl. 26
                                          Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a novely,
                                          na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

                                          ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

                                          Čl. 27
                                          Členění ústavního zákona
                                          (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou „Čl."
                                          a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed.
                                          Čísla se u zkratky „Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí, například:

                                          a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

                                          Čl. 28
                                          Členění novely
                                          (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou „Čl." a římským
                                          číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed; čísla se u
                                          zkratky „Čl."
                                          uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.






                                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                                          > predpisech, smernicich.
                                          > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                                          smernicich,
                                          > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                                          >
                                          > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                                          odkazu,
                                          > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                                          > Sarka
                                          >
                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                          >
                                          > From: meluzina_x
                                          > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                                          > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                          > (zakona)
                                          >
                                          > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                          > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                          > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                                          >
                                          > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                          >
                                          http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                          > pdf,
                                          >
                                          > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                                          > zakonech...
                                          >
                                          > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                                          >
                                          > http://ec.europa
                                          >
                                          eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                                          > pdf
                                          >
                                          > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                                          >
                                          > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                                          > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                                          > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                                          >
                                          > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                                          >
                                          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Ahoj Jirko,
                                          > >
                                          > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                          > > clanek = article
                                          > > paragraf = section
                                          > > odstavec = subsection
                                          > > pismeno = paragraph
                                          > > bod = subparagraph
                                          > >
                                          > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                          > nejak se
                                          > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                          > >
                                          > > sarka
                                          > >
                                          > > -------Original Message-------
                                          > >
                                          > > From: meluzina_x
                                          > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                          > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                          pismeno, bod
                                          > > (zakona)
                                          > >
                                          > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                          > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                          > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                          > >
                                          > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                          > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                          > > into English, not vice versa).
                                          > >
                                          > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                          > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                          > >
                                          > > This link:
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                          > > pdf
                                          > >
                                          > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                          > >
                                          > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                          > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                          > > discussed in this thread.
                                          > >
                                          > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                          > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                          > > level):
                                          > >
                                          > > Cast
                                          > > Hlava
                                          > > Dil
                                          > > Oddil
                                          > > Pododdil
                                          > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                          > > which use Clanek for this level)
                                          > > Odstavec
                                          > > Pododstavec
                                          > > Bod
                                          > >
                                          > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                          > following:
                                          > >
                                          > > Part Část
                                          > > Title Hlava
                                          > > Chapter Díl
                                          > > Section Oddíl
                                          > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                          > > Paragraph Odstavec
                                          > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                          > > Point Bod
                                          > >
                                          > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                          > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                          > > docs that use it.)
                                          > >
                                          > > Thanks in advance.
                                          > >
                                          > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                          > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                          > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                          > >
                                          > > Regards,
                                          > >
                                          > > Veronika
                                          > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                          > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                          > > > > On Behalf
                                          > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                          > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                          > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                          > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                          pismeno, bod
                                          > > > > (zakona)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Hi there,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                          > > > > the texts
                                          > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                                          box. I
                                          > > > > suppose
                                          > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                          > > > > "odstavec"
                                          > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                                          > simply
                                          > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                          > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                          > > > > English-speaking countries?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jirka Bolech
                                          > > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • Matej Klimes
                                          Nevim jak ostatni, ale ja pri prekladech zakunu do A pouzivam paragraf jako Section a clanek (2.1. atd.) jako Article - tak mi to kdysi vysvetlili experti a
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Nevim jak ostatni, ale ja pri prekladech zakunu do A pouzivam paragraf jako Section a clanek (2.1. atd.) jako Article - tak mi to kdysi vysvetlili experti a tak jsem to mockrat videl, tak to tak delam, ono nejvic zalezi na tom, aby to bylo logicke a konzistentni...

                                            M


                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: meluzina_x
                                            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM
                                            Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod (zakona)


                                            Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                                            zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

                                            Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                                            pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                                            vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                                            urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

                                            take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                                            mozna vypada :)

                                            A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                                            Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

                                            Veronika

                                            (19
                                            Čl. 26
                                            Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a novely,
                                            na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

                                            ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

                                            Čl. 27
                                            Členění ústavního zákona
                                            (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou "Čl."
                                            a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed.
                                            Čísla se u zkratky "Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí, například:

                                            a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

                                            Čl. 28
                                            Členění novely
                                            (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou "Čl." a římským
                                            číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed; čísla se u
                                            zkratky "Čl."
                                            uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.

                                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                                            > predpisech, smernicich.
                                            > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                                            smernicich,
                                            > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                                            >
                                            > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                                            odkazu,
                                            > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                                            > Sarka
                                            >
                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                            >
                                            > From: meluzina_x
                                            > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                                            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                            > (zakona)
                                            >
                                            > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                            > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                            > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                                            >
                                            > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                            >
                                            http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                            > pdf,
                                            >
                                            > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                                            > zakonech...
                                            >
                                            > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                                            >
                                            > http://ec.europa
                                            >
                                            eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                                            > pdf
                                            >
                                            > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                                            >
                                            > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                                            > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                                            > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                                            >
                                            > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                                            >
                                            > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Ahoj Jirko,
                                            > >
                                            > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                            > > clanek = article
                                            > > paragraf = section
                                            > > odstavec = subsection
                                            > > pismeno = paragraph
                                            > > bod = subparagraph
                                            > >
                                            > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                            > nejak se
                                            > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                            > >
                                            > > sarka
                                            > >
                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                            > >
                                            > > From: meluzina_x
                                            > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                            > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                            pismeno, bod
                                            > > (zakona)
                                            > >
                                            > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                            > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                            > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                            > >
                                            > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                            > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                            > > into English, not vice versa).
                                            > >
                                            > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                            > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                            > >
                                            > > This link:
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                            > > pdf
                                            > >
                                            > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                            > >
                                            > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                            > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                            > > discussed in this thread.
                                            > >
                                            > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                            > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                            > > level):
                                            > >
                                            > > Cast
                                            > > Hlava
                                            > > Dil
                                            > > Oddil
                                            > > Pododdil
                                            > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                            > > which use Clanek for this level)
                                            > > Odstavec
                                            > > Pododstavec
                                            > > Bod
                                            > >
                                            > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                            > following:
                                            > >
                                            > > Part Část
                                            > > Title Hlava
                                            > > Chapter Díl
                                            > > Section Oddíl
                                            > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                            > > Paragraph Odstavec
                                            > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                            > > Point Bod
                                            > >
                                            > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                            > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                            > > docs that use it.)
                                            > >
                                            > > Thanks in advance.
                                            > >
                                            > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                            > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                            > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                            > >
                                            > > Regards,
                                            > >
                                            > > Veronika
                                            > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                            > > > > On Behalf
                                            > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                            > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                            > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                            > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                            pismeno, bod
                                            > > > > (zakona)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Hi there,
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                            > > > > the texts
                                            > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                                            box. I
                                            > > > > suppose
                                            > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                            > > > > "odstavec"
                                            > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                                            > simply
                                            > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                            > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                            > > > > English-speaking countries?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Jirka Bolech
                                            > > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Josef Hlavac
                                            Dobry den Veroniko, ... To bych nerekl. Existuji pravidla, jak se pise legislativa EU, a take existuji pravidla, jak se pise ceska legislativa. Ale tato
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Dobry den Veroniko,

                                              > Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                                              > pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se

                                              To bych nerekl. Existuji pravidla, jak se pise legislativa EU, a take
                                              existuji pravidla, jak se pise ceska legislativa. Ale tato pravidla na
                                              sobe nezavisi.

                                              Proto taky evropske predpisy, i kdyz vychazeji v uredni ceske verzi,
                                              vypadaji jinak (maji jinou strukturu) nez ceske predpisy. A proto resime
                                              tento problem - nejde jednoduse a primocare "napasovat" evropskou
                                              sablonu na ceske predpisy.

                                              Takze asi neni jina cesta nez zvolit nejake kompromisni reseni.
                                              Paragrafu se obvykle rika section, tak oddilu by mozna slo rikat chapter.

                                              Proto taky rikam, ze zalezi na zakaznikovi - pokud ma nejakou tabulku,
                                              pouzijte ji, pokud ne, nejake schema si vymyslete a drzte se ho :)

                                              Josef

                                              meluzina_x wrote:
                                              > Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                                              > zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)
                                              >
                                              > Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                                              > pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                                              > vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                                              > urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)
                                              >
                                              > take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                                              > mozna vypada :)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                                              > Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).
                                              >
                                              > Veronika
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > (19
                                              > Čl. 26
                                              > Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a novely,
                                              > na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )
                                              >
                                              > ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:
                                              >
                                              > Čl. 27
                                              > Členění ústavního zákona
                                              > (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou „Čl."
                                              > a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed.
                                              > Čísla se u zkratky „Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí, například:
                                              >
                                              > a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.
                                              >
                                              > Čl. 28
                                              > Členění novely
                                              > (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje zkratkou „Čl." a římským
                                              > číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku uprostřed; čísla se u
                                              > zkratky „Čl."
                                              > uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                                              >> Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                                              >> predpisech, smernicich.
                                              >> Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                                              > smernicich,
                                              >> narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                                              >>
                                              >> Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                                              > odkazu,
                                              >> ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                                              >> Sarka
                                              >>
                                              >> -------Original Message-------
                                              >>
                                              >> From: meluzina_x
                                              >> Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                                              >> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                              >> (zakona)
                                              >>
                                              >> Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                              >> nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                              >> "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                                              >>
                                              >> Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                              >>
                                              > http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                              >> pdf,
                                              >>
                                              >> paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                                              >> zakonech...
                                              >>
                                              >> jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                                              >>
                                              >> http://ec.europa
                                              >>
                                              > eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                                              >> pdf
                                              >>
                                              >> anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                                              >>
                                              >> podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                                              >> asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                                              >> anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                                              >>
                                              >> Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                                              >>
                                              >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                                              >>> Ahoj Jirko,
                                              >>>
                                              >>> ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                              >>> clanek = article
                                              >>> paragraf = section
                                              >>> odstavec = subsection
                                              >>> pismeno = paragraph
                                              >>> bod = subparagraph
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                              >> nejak se
                                              >>> doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> sarka
                                              >>>
                                              >>> -------Original Message-------
                                              >>>
                                              >>> From: meluzina_x
                                              >>> Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                              >>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>> Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                              > pismeno, bod
                                              >>> (zakona)
                                              >>>
                                              >>> I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                              >>> specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                              >>> apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                              >>> legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                              >>> into English, not vice versa).
                                              >>>
                                              >>> This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                              >>> good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> This link:
                                              >>>
                                              > http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                              >>> pdf
                                              >>>
                                              >>> is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                              >>> structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                              >>> discussed in this thread.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                              >>> legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                              >>> level):
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Cast
                                              >>> Hlava
                                              >>> Dil
                                              >>> Oddil
                                              >>> Pododdil
                                              >>> Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                              >>> which use Clanek for this level)
                                              >>> Odstavec
                                              >>> Pododstavec
                                              >>> Bod
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                              >> following:
                                              >>> Part Část
                                              >>> Title Hlava
                                              >>> Chapter Díl
                                              >>> Section Oddíl
                                              >>> Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                              >>> Paragraph Odstavec
                                              >>> Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                              >>> Point Bod
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                              >>> no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                              >>> docs that use it.)
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Thanks in advance.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                              >>> this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                              >>> e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Regards,
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Veronika
                                              >>>
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> -----Original Message-----
                                              >>>>> From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              > [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                              >>>>> On Behalf
                                              >>>>> Of Jirka Bolech
                                              >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                              >>>>> To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                              >>>>> Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                              > pismeno, bod
                                              >>>>> (zakona)
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Hi there,
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                              >>>>> the texts
                                              >>>>> are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                                              > box. I
                                              >>>>> suppose
                                              >>>>> "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                              >>>>> "odstavec"
                                              >>>>> as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                                              >> simply
                                              >>>>> 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                              >>>>> translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                              >>>>> English-speaking countries?
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Jirka Bolech
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >>>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > Translators' tricks of the trade:
                                              > http://czeng.wetpaint.com/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • Šárka Rubková
                                              Ja myslim ten odkaz na EU pravidla. ten se v podstate zakonu netyka, hovori se tam o pravnich aktech, vyslovne se mluvi o mezinarodnich smlouvach, smernicich,
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Ja myslim ten odkaz na EU pravidla. ten se v podstate zakonu netyka, hovori
                                                se tam o pravnich aktech, vyslovne se mluvi o mezinarodnich smlouvach,
                                                smernicich, narizenich, rozhodnutich na urovni EU, coz jsou vsechno pravni
                                                akty a, pravda, o ustave.

                                                Zakony jednotlivych zemi nepodlehaji nomenklature EU. Rozhodne bych ji do
                                                prekladu ceskeho zakona netahala.

                                                Sarka




                                                -------Original Message-------

                                                From: meluzina_x
                                                Date: 6.8.2008 12:03:09
                                                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                                (zakona)

                                                Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                                                zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

                                                Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                                                pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                                                vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                                                urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

                                                take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                                                mozna vypada :)

                                                A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                                                Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

                                                Veronika

                                                (19
                                                Čl. 26
                                                Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a
                                                novely,
                                                na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

                                                ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

                                                Čl. 27
                                                Členění ústavního zákona
                                                (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                                                zkratkou „Čl."
                                                a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem č
                                                lánku uprostřed.
                                                Čísla se u zkratky „Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí,
                                                například:

                                                a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

                                                Čl. 28
                                                Členění novely
                                                (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                                                zkratkou „Čl." a římským
                                                číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku
                                                uprostřed; čísla se u
                                                zkratky „Čl."
                                                uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.

                                                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                                                > predpisech, smernicich.
                                                > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                                                smernicich,
                                                > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                                                >
                                                > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                                                odkazu,
                                                > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                                                > Sarka
                                                >
                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                >
                                                > From: meluzina_x
                                                > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                                                > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                                > (zakona)
                                                >
                                                > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                                > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                                > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                                                >
                                                > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                                >
                                                http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                                > pdf,
                                                >
                                                > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                                                > zakonech...
                                                >
                                                > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                                                >
                                                > http://ec.europa
                                                >
                                                eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                                                > pdf
                                                >
                                                > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                                                >
                                                > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                                                > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                                                > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                                                >
                                                > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                                                >
                                                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Šárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Ahoj Jirko,
                                                > >
                                                > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                                > > clanek = article
                                                > > paragraf = section
                                                > > odstavec = subsection
                                                > > pismeno = paragraph
                                                > > bod = subparagraph
                                                > >
                                                > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                                > nejak se
                                                > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                                > >
                                                > > sarka
                                                > >
                                                > > -------Original Message-------
                                                > >
                                                > > From: meluzina_x
                                                > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                                > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                pismeno, bod
                                                > > (zakona)
                                                > >
                                                > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                                > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                                > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                                > >
                                                > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                                > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                                > > into English, not vice versa).
                                                > >
                                                > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                                > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                                > >
                                                > > This link:
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                                > > pdf
                                                > >
                                                > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                                > >
                                                > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                                > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                                > > discussed in this thread.
                                                > >
                                                > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                                > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                                > > level):
                                                > >
                                                > > Cast
                                                > > Hlava
                                                > > Dil
                                                > > Oddil
                                                > > Pododdil
                                                > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                                > > which use Clanek for this level)
                                                > > Odstavec
                                                > > Pododstavec
                                                > > Bod
                                                > >
                                                > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                                > following:
                                                > >
                                                > > Part Část
                                                > > Title Hlava
                                                > > Chapter Díl
                                                > > Section Oddíl
                                                > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                                > > Paragraph Odstavec
                                                > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                                > > Point Bod
                                                > >
                                                > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                                > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                                > > docs that use it.)
                                                > >
                                                > > Thanks in advance.
                                                > >
                                                > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                                > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                                > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                                > >
                                                > > Regards,
                                                > >
                                                > > Veronika
                                                > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                                > > > > On Behalf
                                                > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                                > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                                > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                                > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                pismeno, bod
                                                > > > > (zakona)
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Hi there,
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                                > > > > the texts
                                                > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                                                box. I
                                                > > > > suppose
                                                > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                                > > > > "odstavec"
                                                > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                                                > simply
                                                > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                                > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                                > > > > English-speaking countries?
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Jirka Bolech
                                                > > > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >





                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Šárka Rubková
                                                Souhlas, Mateji ... From: Matej Klimes Date: 6.8.2008 12:19:28 To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Souhlas, Mateji

                                                  -------Original Message-------

                                                  From: Matej Klimes
                                                  Date: 6.8.2008 12:19:28
                                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                                  (zakona)

                                                  Nevim jak ostatni, ale ja pri prekladech zakunu do A pouzivam paragraf jako
                                                  Section a clanek (2.1. atd.) jako Article - tak mi to kdysi vysvetlili
                                                  experti a tak jsem to mockrat videl, tak to tak delam, ono nejvic zalezi na
                                                  tom, aby to bylo logicke a konzistentni...

                                                  M

                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: meluzina_x
                                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:02 PM
                                                  Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                                  (zakona)

                                                  Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                                                  zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

                                                  Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                                                  pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                                                  vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                                                  urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

                                                  take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                                                  mozna vypada :)

                                                  A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                                                  Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

                                                  Veronika

                                                  (19
                                                  Čl. 26
                                                  Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a
                                                  novely,
                                                  na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

                                                  ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

                                                  Čl. 27
                                                  Členění ústavního zákona
                                                  (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                                                  zkratkou "Čl."
                                                  a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem č
                                                  lánku uprostřed.
                                                  Čísla se u zkratky "Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí,
                                                  například:

                                                  a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

                                                  Čl. 28
                                                  Členění novely
                                                  (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                                                  zkratkou "Čl." a římským
                                                  číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku
                                                  uprostřed; čísla se u
                                                  zkratky "Čl."
                                                  uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.

                                                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                                                  > predpisech, smernicich.
                                                  > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                                                  smernicich,
                                                  > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                                                  >
                                                  > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                                                  odkazu,
                                                  > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                                                  > Sarka
                                                  >
                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                  >
                                                  > From: meluzina_x
                                                  > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                                                  > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                                  > (zakona)
                                                  >
                                                  > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                                  > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                                  > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                                                  >
                                                  > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                                  >
                                                  http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                                  > pdf,
                                                  >
                                                  > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                                                  > zakonech...
                                                  >
                                                  > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                                                  >
                                                  > http://ec.europa
                                                  >
                                                  eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                                                  > pdf
                                                  >
                                                  > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                                                  >
                                                  > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                                                  > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                                                  > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                                                  >
                                                  > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Ahoj Jirko,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                                  > > clanek = article
                                                  > > paragraf = section
                                                  > > odstavec = subsection
                                                  > > pismeno = paragraph
                                                  > > bod = subparagraph
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                                  > nejak se
                                                  > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > sarka
                                                  > >
                                                  > > -------Original Message-------
                                                  > >
                                                  > > From: meluzina_x
                                                  > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                                  > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                  pismeno, bod
                                                  > > (zakona)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                                  > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                                  > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                                  > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                                  > > into English, not vice versa).
                                                  > >
                                                  > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                                  > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > This link:
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                                  > > pdf
                                                  > >
                                                  > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                                  > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                                  > > discussed in this thread.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                                  > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                                  > > level):
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Cast
                                                  > > Hlava
                                                  > > Dil
                                                  > > Oddil
                                                  > > Pododdil
                                                  > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                                  > > which use Clanek for this level)
                                                  > > Odstavec
                                                  > > Pododstavec
                                                  > > Bod
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                                  > following:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Part Část
                                                  > > Title Hlava
                                                  > > Chapter Díl
                                                  > > Section Oddíl
                                                  > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                                  > > Paragraph Odstavec
                                                  > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                                  > > Point Bod
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                                  > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                                  > > docs that use it.)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Thanks in advance.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                                  > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                                  > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Regards,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Veronika
                                                  > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                                  > > > > On Behalf
                                                  > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                                  > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                                  > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                                  > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                  pismeno, bod
                                                  > > > > (zakona)
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Hi there,
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                                  > > > > the texts
                                                  > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                                                  box. I
                                                  > > > > suppose
                                                  > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                                  > > > > "odstavec"
                                                  > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                                                  > simply
                                                  > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                                  > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                                  > > > > English-speaking countries?
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Jirka Bolech
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Alena Rysková 2e
                                                  Tak ja take prispeji k teto kosate debate - z mych poznamek z prednasky na PF UK jsem vykutala doporuceni, jak prekladat nasledujici ceske pojmy do anglictiny:
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Tak ja take prispeji k teto kosate debate - z mych poznamek z prednasky na PF UK jsem vykutala doporuceni, jak prekladat nasledujici ceske pojmy do anglictiny:
                                                    paragraf - section
                                                    odstavec - subsection
                                                    pismeno - paragraph
                                                    veta - subparagraph
                                                    chapter je dle tehoz castka (cili c s hackem, prvni a dlouhe)
                                                    A jeste: pokud je nekde odvolavka na neco jako §81, odst. 4, pism. b, ma se to prevadet jako s. 81(4)(b)
                                                    A ted je gulas dokonaly!
                                                    Alena

                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: Sárka Rubková
                                                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:30 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod (zakona)


                                                    Ja myslim ten odkaz na EU pravidla. ten se v podstate zakonu netyka, hovori
                                                    se tam o pravnich aktech, vyslovne se mluvi o mezinarodnich smlouvach,
                                                    smernicich, narizenich, rozhodnutich na urovni EU, coz jsou vsechno pravni
                                                    akty a, pravda, o ustave.

                                                    Zakony jednotlivych zemi nepodlehaji nomenklature EU. Rozhodne bych ji do
                                                    prekladu ceskeho zakona netahala.

                                                    Sarka




                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: meluzina_x
                                                    Date: 6.8.2008 12:03:09
                                                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                                    (zakona)

                                                    Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                                                    zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)

                                                    Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                                                    pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                                                    vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                                                    urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)

                                                    take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                                                    mozna vypada :)

                                                    A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                                                    Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten paragraf).

                                                    Veronika

                                                    (19
                                                    Čl. 26
                                                    Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního zákona a
                                                    novely,
                                                    na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )

                                                    ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:

                                                    Čl. 27
                                                    Členění ústavního zákona
                                                    (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                                                    zkratkou "Čl."
                                                    a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem č
                                                    lánku uprostřed.
                                                    Čísla se u zkratky "Čl." uvádějí v souvislém pořadí,
                                                    například:

                                                    a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.

                                                    Čl. 28
                                                    Členění novely
                                                    (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                                                    zkratkou "Čl." a římským
                                                    číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku
                                                    uprostřed; čísla se u
                                                    zkratky "Čl."
                                                    uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.

                                                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                                                    > predpisech, smernicich.
                                                    > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                                                    smernicich,
                                                    > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                                                    >
                                                    > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                                                    odkazu,
                                                    > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                                                    > Sarka
                                                    >
                                                    > -------Original Message-------
                                                    >
                                                    > From: meluzina_x
                                                    > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                                                    > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec, pismeno, bod
                                                    > (zakona)
                                                    >
                                                    > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                                    > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                                    > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                                                    >
                                                    > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                                    >
                                                    http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                                    > pdf,
                                                    >
                                                    > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v ceskych
                                                    > zakonech...
                                                    >
                                                    > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                                                    >
                                                    > http://ec.europa
                                                    >
                                                    eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                                                    > pdf
                                                    >
                                                    > anglicka verze je zde: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                                                    >
                                                    > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke verzi, se
                                                    > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te prirucky,
                                                    > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako "oddil".
                                                    >
                                                    > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Ahoj Jirko,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                                    > > clanek = article
                                                    > > paragraf = section
                                                    > > odstavec = subsection
                                                    > > pismeno = paragraph
                                                    > > bod = subparagraph
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                                    > nejak se
                                                    > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > sarka
                                                    > >
                                                    > > -------Original Message-------
                                                    > >
                                                    > > From: meluzina_x
                                                    > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                                    > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                    pismeno, bod
                                                    > > (zakona)
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                                    > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                                    > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                                    > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from Czech
                                                    > > into English, not vice versa).
                                                    > >
                                                    > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides a very
                                                    > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > This link:
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy
                                                    > > pdf
                                                    > >
                                                    > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                                    > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                                    > > discussed in this thread.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                                    > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very highest
                                                    > > level):
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Cast
                                                    > > Hlava
                                                    > > Dil
                                                    > > Oddil
                                                    > > Pododdil
                                                    > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional Acts,
                                                    > > which use Clanek for this level)
                                                    > > Odstavec
                                                    > > Pododstavec
                                                    > > Bod
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                                    > following:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Part Část
                                                    > > Title Hlava
                                                    > > Chapter Díl
                                                    > > Section Oddíl
                                                    > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                                    > > Paragraph Odstavec
                                                    > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                                    > > Point Bod
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but there is
                                                    > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have seen Vzech
                                                    > > docs that use it.)
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Thanks in advance.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did post to
                                                    > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled (due to
                                                    > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Regards,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Veronika
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                                    > > > > On Behalf
                                                    > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                                    > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                                    > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                                    > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                    pismeno, bod
                                                    > > > > (zakona)
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Hi there,
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the documents)
                                                    > > > > the texts
                                                    > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                                                    box. I
                                                    > > > > suppose
                                                    > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as 'section',
                                                    > > > > "odstavec"
                                                    > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could "pismeno" be
                                                    > simply
                                                    > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an established way of
                                                    > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                                    > > > > English-speaking countries?
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Jirka Bolech
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >





                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • meluzina_x
                                                    Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice. I will continue using Section/Subsection - and if someone corrects it to Article/Paragraph, so be it :D I
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Aug 6, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice. I will continue
                                                      using Section/Subsection - and if someone corrects it to
                                                      Article/Paragraph, so be it :D

                                                      I was trying to find some one document that I could use as "proof"
                                                      when i receive back a corrected translation telling me to use the
                                                      alternative to the combination I used.

                                                      It seems this must be an issue for more people, as if you take a look
                                                      at the various English translations that do exist, they seem to be a
                                                      combination. As someone mentioned, it most likely depends on who is
                                                      using the translation. The English versions of acts avaialble on the
                                                      CNB site seem to use the Article/Paragraph combination throughout. The
                                                      various ministries seem to have a mix. (There are also other
                                                      variations being used, but those aren't worth getting into.)


                                                      Thanks again.


                                                      Veronika

                                                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Alena Rysková 2e <preklady@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Tak ja take prispeji k teto kosate debate - z mych poznamek z
                                                      prednasky na PF UK jsem vykutala doporuceni, jak prekladat nasledujici
                                                      ceske pojmy do anglictiny:
                                                      > paragraf - section
                                                      > odstavec - subsection
                                                      > pismeno - paragraph
                                                      > veta - subparagraph
                                                      > chapter je dle tehoz castka (cili c s hackem, prvni a dlouhe)
                                                      > A jeste: pokud je nekde odvolavka na neco jako §81, odst. 4, pism.
                                                      b, ma se to prevadet jako s. 81(4)(b)
                                                      > A ted je gulas dokonaly!
                                                      > Alena
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: Sárka Rubková
                                                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:30 PM
                                                      > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                      pismeno, bod (zakona)
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Ja myslim ten odkaz na EU pravidla. ten se v podstate zakonu
                                                      netyka, hovori
                                                      > se tam o pravnich aktech, vyslovne se mluvi o mezinarodnich smlouvach,
                                                      > smernicich, narizenich, rozhodnutich na urovni EU, coz jsou
                                                      vsechno pravni
                                                      > akty a, pravda, o ustave.
                                                      >
                                                      > Zakony jednotlivych zemi nepodlehaji nomenklature EU. Rozhodne
                                                      bych ji do
                                                      > prekladu ceskeho zakona netahala.
                                                      >
                                                      > Sarka
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                      >
                                                      > From: meluzina_x
                                                      > Date: 6.8.2008 12:03:09
                                                      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                      pismeno, bod
                                                      > (zakona)
                                                      >
                                                      > Prave, ze ten cesky dokument se tyka zakonu. Mate pravdu, ze vetsina
                                                      > zakonu se cleni na paragrafy (viz nize:)
                                                      >
                                                      > Kdyz se ma prelozit cesky zakon do anglictiny, nemely by se pouzivat
                                                      > pravidla EU ? t.j., podle te tabulky v te prirucce (i ... (ktera se
                                                      > vubec nezminuje o paragrafef, ale tim, ze § je pouzivan na stejne
                                                      > urovni jako clanek, tak jsem myslela, ze to mozna take plati.)
                                                      >
                                                      > take nejsem zadna odbornice a nechci se o tom hadat, i kdyz to tak
                                                      > mozna vypada :)
                                                      >
                                                      > A ted tedy potrebuju poradit jak jak mam teda prelozit "oddil" ?
                                                      > Prave, ze ta tabulka v te EU prirucce tak hezky sedi (az na ten
                                                      paragraf).
                                                      >
                                                      > Veronika
                                                      >
                                                      > (19
                                                      > Čl. 26
                                                      > Členění právního předpisu, s výjimkou ústavního
                                                      zákona a
                                                      > novely,
                                                      > na paragrafy, odstavce, pododstavce, body a jejich označování )
                                                      >
                                                      > ale v tom stejnem dokumentu je tohle o ustavnich zakonech:
                                                      >
                                                      > Čl. 27
                                                      > Členění ústavního zákona
                                                      > (1) Ústavní zákon se člení na články. Článek se
                                                      označuje
                                                      > zkratkou "Čl."
                                                      > a arabským číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem
                                                      č
                                                      > lánku uprostřed.
                                                      > Čísla se u zkratky "Čl." uvádějí v souvislém
                                                      pořadí,
                                                      > například:
                                                      >
                                                      > a o novelach, ktere jsou vlastne take vydavane jako zakony.
                                                      >
                                                      > Čl. 28
                                                      > Členění novely
                                                      > (1) Novela se člení na články. Článek se označuje
                                                      > zkratkou "Čl." a římským
                                                      > číslem bez tečky, umístěnými nad textem článku
                                                      > uprostřed; čísla se u
                                                      > zkratky "Čl."
                                                      > uvádějí v souvislém pořadí.
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Pokud vím, tak se clanek pouziva vetsinou ve smlouvach, narizenich,
                                                      > > predpisech, smernicich.
                                                      > > Take cesky dokument, na ktery odkazujete, hovori o smlouvach,
                                                      > smernicich,
                                                      > > narizenich, nikoli o zakonech.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Popravde jsem zatim v ceskych zakonech na clanek nenarazila, leda v
                                                      > odkazu,
                                                      > > ale v tomto ohledu se nepovazuji za znalce.
                                                      > > Sarka
                                                      > >
                                                      > > -------Original Message-------
                                                      > >
                                                      > > From: meluzina_x
                                                      > > Date: 6.8.2008 10:19:06
                                                      > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                      pismeno, bod
                                                      > > (zakona)
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Jediny duvod, proc jsem tuto starou "thread" vytahla, je, ze
                                                      > > nekolikrat uz mi nekdo opravil "section" "subsection" na "article"
                                                      > > "paragraph" - a obracene take.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Podle toho co jsem nasla na
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy

                                                      > > pdf,
                                                      > >
                                                      > > paragraf (§) a clanek se vlastne pouzivaji na stejne urovni v
                                                      ceskych
                                                      > > zakonech...
                                                      > >
                                                      > > jeste se mi podarilo najit to EU prirucku v cestine...
                                                      > >
                                                      > > http://ec.europa
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      eu/translation/language_aids/freelance/documents/joint_practical_guide/cs
                                                      > > pdf
                                                      > >
                                                      > > anglicka verze je zde:
                                                      http://eur-lex.europa.eu/cs/techleg/pdf/en.pdf
                                                      > >
                                                      > > podle tabulky na str. 33 v ceske verzi a str. 45 v anglicke
                                                      verzi, se
                                                      > > asi ma pouzivat "article" pokud se preklada zakon? Podle te
                                                      prirucky,
                                                      > > anglicky "section" je to co se v ceskych zakonech oznacuje jako
                                                      "oddil".
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Omlouvam se, ze to takhle rozvadim, ale mam v tom fakt zmatek. :(
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Sárka Rubková " <rubkova@>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Ahoj Jirko,
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > ja to prekladam nasledovne:
                                                      > > > clanek = article
                                                      > > > paragraf = section
                                                      > > > odstavec = subsection
                                                      > > > pismeno = paragraph
                                                      > > > bod = subparagraph
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Jednou jsem mela preklad do anglictiny, ktery mi korigoval Mike a
                                                      > > nejak se
                                                      > > > doslo k tomuhle reseni.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > sarka
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > -------Original Message-------
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > From: meluzina_x
                                                      > > > Date: 4.8.2008 18:37:46
                                                      > > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                      > pismeno, bod
                                                      > > > (zakona)
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > I've searched a bit for more info on this site with regard to the
                                                      > > > specified terms, but couldn't seem to find anything more, so my
                                                      > > > apologies in advance if there is something more recent.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > I am trying to link up the terminology used for drafting EU
                                                      > > > legislation with that used in the Czech Rep. (I translate from
                                                      Czech
                                                      > > > into English, not vice versa).
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > This link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/techleg/15.htm provides
                                                      a very
                                                      > > > good definition of the structure used within the EU.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > This link:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      http://www.vlada.cz/assets/cs/rvk/lrv/Pravidla/legislativn__pravidla_vl_dy

                                                      > > > pdf
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > is allegedly the most current set of rules for the Czech Rep.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Based on the two aforementioned documents, I have come up with a
                                                      > > > structure that is slightly different from what was originally
                                                      > > > discussed in this thread.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Looking at the Czech doc (Art.25 and Art. 26), it seems Czech
                                                      > > > legislation is basically broken down as follows (from the very
                                                      highest
                                                      > > > level):
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Cast
                                                      > > > Hlava
                                                      > > > Dil
                                                      > > > Oddil
                                                      > > > Pododdil
                                                      > > > Paragraf (with the exception of amendments and constitutional
                                                      Acts,
                                                      > > > which use Clanek for this level)
                                                      > > > Odstavec
                                                      > > > Pododstavec
                                                      > > > Bod
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Trying to match it up with the EU doc, I have come up with the
                                                      > > following:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Part Část
                                                      > > > Title Hlava
                                                      > > > Chapter Díl
                                                      > > > Section Oddíl
                                                      > > > Article Článek or Paragraf (§), depending on the type of Act
                                                      > > > Paragraph Odstavec
                                                      > > > Subparagraph Pododstavec
                                                      > > > Point Bod
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Does this seem reasonable? (I know that chapter <> dil, but
                                                      there is
                                                      > > > no mention of "kapitola" in the Czech doc, although i have
                                                      seen Vzech
                                                      > > > docs that use it.)
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Thanks in advance.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > P.S. Is there some place i should (re)introduce myself? I did
                                                      post to
                                                      > > > this group a while back, but somehow my log-in was cancelled
                                                      (due to
                                                      > > > e-mail problems) and I've not had the chance to rejoin until now.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Regards,
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Veronika
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                      > > > > > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com]
                                                      > > > > > On Behalf
                                                      > > > > > Of Jirka Bolech
                                                      > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:13 PM
                                                      > > > > > To: Czechlist on Smartgroups; Czechlist on Yahoogroups
                                                      > > > > > Subject: [Czechlist] TERMs: clanek, paragraf, odstavec,
                                                      > pismeno, bod
                                                      > > > > > (zakona)
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Hi there,
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > It appears to me that in Czech acts of law (I mean the
                                                      documents)
                                                      > > > > > the texts
                                                      > > > > > are structured cascading as I indicate above in the Subject
                                                      > box. I
                                                      > > > > > suppose
                                                      > > > > > "clanek" is 'article', "paragraf" can be rendered as
                                                      'section',
                                                      > > > > > "odstavec"
                                                      > > > > > as 'paragraph', but what about the last two? Could
                                                      "pismeno" be
                                                      > > simply
                                                      > > > > > 'letter', and "bod" perhaps 'item'? Is there an
                                                      established way of
                                                      > > > > > translating those? How do they compare to conventions in the
                                                      > > > > > English-speaking countries?
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Jirka Bolech
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
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                                                    • James Kirchner
                                                      Are mikrotužkové baterie just AAA batteries, or is there something special about them? Thanks. Jamie
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Aug 8, 2008
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                                                        Are mikrotužkové baterie just AAA batteries, or is there something
                                                        special about them?

                                                        Thanks.

                                                        Jamie
                                                      • Jirka Bolech
                                                        Hi Jamie, ... That s exactly what they are... Jira Bolech
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Aug 8, 2008
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                                                          Hi Jamie,

                                                          > Are mikrotužkové baterie just AAA batteries?

                                                          That's exactly what they are...

                                                          Jira Bolech
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