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Re: Call for Native Speakers

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  • melvyn.geo
    ... wrote: ... Agree with Valerie - a general emphatic exclamation like lawks, ma am! , uttered by lovable working-class Londoners in old
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 4, 2005
      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Mikolajek"
      <mgmikolajek@v...> wrote:

      A few more thoughts:
      >
      > 1) "Lord love you, sir,"

      Agree with Valerie - a general emphatic exclamation like "lawks,
      ma'am!", uttered by lovable working-class Londoners in old novels. My
      feeling is that it is the kind of stereotypical traditional Cockney
      that Matej was discussing a few weeks ago. The important thing IMHO is
      that it IS stereotypical. And old-fashioned. Think of what some
      effusive Zizkov street-porter might exclaim in a Capek-Chod novel.

      > 4) Adjectives describing voice: warped, dipping, swooping
      >
      > (Her voice, with its warped, homely, Cockney vowels

      'Warped' is a good way to describe Cockney dipthongs and tripthongs
      from the standpoint of a 'standard' English speaker. Distorted.

      > and random aspirates.

      Eastenders reputedly drop their h's when they're required and add them
      when they're not. Rough parallels might be drawn with the v in vokno
      and ty 'ole.

      > Her dark, rusty, dipping, swooping voice, imperious as siren's)

      Eastenders also famously have a 'singing' intonation (as Pilseners say
      of Praguers and vice versa - these things are relative, I guess). Many
      would say there is something pleasingly melodic and perhaps even a
      little dramatic about this intonation, hence the expressive words to
      describe the rises and falls. 'Dark' and 'rusty' will describe her
      voice itself. I imagine a woman of mature years who has perhaps smoked
      more than she should have...

      BR

      M.
      Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
      a religious conviction.
      - Blaise Pascal
    • Martin
      Thank you both for your responses. Re: 1) (Lord love you!) I feared it is so. Since this is the opening line of the entire book, it is important to invent
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 5, 2005
        Thank you both for your responses.

        Re: 1) (Lord love you!) I feared it is so. Since this is the opening
        line of the entire book, it is important to invent something nice and
        juicy. There is this problem with the main character that although she
        is constantly being referred to as a Cockney Eastender, she speaks
        beatiful, rich English and the Cockney accent is not represented in
        the text in any way. In other words, the translation must allow for
        both a straightforward and an ironic reading, just as the original.
        Would you have any suggestions?

        Re: 2)(Dared and done) Yes, that is what I thought too. I just wonder,
        whether there exists any fixed and common translation of this phrase.

        Re: 3)(Academy) Brothel as a place of learning - I have not thought of
        it this way, but maybe it would make sense in the context. Good idea,
        thank you.

        Re: 4) (Voice adjectives) I mainly have problem with the "swooping
        voice". I believe it lends itself to two interpretations: a voice that
        is falling and rising with pronounced intonation or a voice that is so
        powerful and agressive that it captures the listener's attention as a
        raptor swoops down on his prey. Which is it?


        One more time, thanks for your...er...time. :-)
      • melvyn.geo
        ... You sure about that? Have a look at the first paragraph again: Lor love you, sir! Fevvers sang out in a voice that clanged like dustbin lids. As to my
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 5, 2005
          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" <mgmikolajek@v...> wrote:

          >
          > There is this problem with the main character that although she
          > is constantly being referred to as a Cockney Eastender, she speaks
          > beatiful, rich English and the Cockney accent is not represented in
          > the text in any way.

          You sure about that? Have a look at the first paragraph again:

          "Lor' love you, sir!" Fevvers sang out in a voice that clanged like
          dustbin lids. "As to my place of birth, why, I first saw the light of
          day right here in smoky old London, didn't I! Not billed the 'Cockney
          Venus', for nothing, sir, though they could just as well 'ave called
          me 'Helen of the High Wire', due to the unusual circumstances in which
          I come ashore - for I never docked via what you might call the normal
          channels, sir, oh, dear me, no; but, just like Helen of Troy, was hatched.

          The dropped aitch and consonant, the name Fevvers (Feathers), the
          rhetorical tag and the exclamations are dead give-aways:

          "We are plunged straight into the narration of a very unusual narrator
          whose peculiar combination of Cockney English and classical erudition
          suggests her status as half human and half mythical" -

          http://www.csulb.edu/~bhfinney/AngelaCarter.html

          In other words, the translation must allow for
          > both a straightforward and an ironic reading, just as the original.
          Would you have any suggestions?

          About how to handle Angela Carter's erudite trompe l'oeil
          metanarrative technique =:O? Try the above link for a little inspiration.

          > Re: 4) (Voice adjectives) I mainly have problem with the "swooping
          > voice". I believe it lends itself to two interpretations: a voice
          that is falling and rising with pronounced intonation or a voice that
          is so powerful and agressive that it captures the listener's attention
          as a raptor swoops down on his prey. Which is it?

          The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive once we have accepted
          the aforementioned human/mythical parallelism. Again, a little context
          and explanation might help:

          he quickly becomes "a prisoner of her voice . . . Her dark, rusty,
          dipping, swooping voice, imperious as a siren's" Half mythical, she
          shares with Homer's fabulous female creatures their hypnotic
          attraction - and their potential destructiveness. [ibid]

          As I said, the intonation is rather dramatic! :-)

          Be lucky! ;-)

          M.
          When I woke up this morning my girlfriend asked me, 'Did you sleep
          good?' I said 'No, I made a few mistakes.'
          - Steven Wright
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