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Re: [Czechlist] Paradigm

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  • Hana Viansová
    Jamie, are you serious here about addressing a judge You Guys? What about contempt of court? I ve always felt that you guys was pretty informal - was I
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 4, 2005
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      Jamie, are you serious here about addressing a judge You Guys? What about
      contempt of court? I've always felt that "you guys" was pretty informal -
      was I wrong?
      Hanka

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
      To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 7:37 AM
      Subject: [Czechlist] Paradigm


      > Tonight I was watching the movie "Napoleon Dynamite", which has become
      > a raging cult favorite among kids about 13 or 14 years old (although
      > adults think it's hilarious too), and I thought it might be useful for
      > the native Czech speakers to learn the current pronoun paradigms in
      > Northern US English. Here they are:
      >
      > Subject Possessive
      > CZ Eng CZ Eng
      >
      > ja I muj my
      > ty you tvuj your
      > on he jeho his
      > ona she jeji her
      > ono it jeho its
      > my we nas our
      > vy you guys vas your-guys's
      > oni they jejich their
      >
      > So now, as you see, like the southern paradigm, the northern paradigm
      > is complete, with both a singular and plural you. "I need to use
      > your-guys's phone."
      >
      > By the way, based on my observations in court, it is now considered
      > proper in some sectors of society to address judges by using the plural
      > you, that is "You Guys", rather than the old-fashioned "Your Honor".
      >
      > Jamie
      >
      >
      >
      > Czechlist resources:
      > http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Hana Viansová
      And BTW, how would you pronounce you guys s - [gaisis]? I m surprised by the added s - you d probably say you visited your parents house, right? (not your
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 4, 2005
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        And BTW, how would you pronounce "you guys's" - [gaisis]? I'm surprised by
        the added "s" - you'd probably say you visited your parents' house, right?
        (not your parents's?:-)
        Hanka

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
        To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 7:37 AM
        Subject: [Czechlist] Paradigm


        > Tonight I was watching the movie "Napoleon Dynamite", which has become
        > a raging cult favorite among kids about 13 or 14 years old (although
        > adults think it's hilarious too), and I thought it might be useful for
        > the native Czech speakers to learn the current pronoun paradigms in
        > Northern US English. Here they are:
        >
        > Subject Possessive
        > CZ Eng CZ Eng
        >
        > ja I muj my
        > ty you tvuj your
        > on he jeho his
        > ona she jeji her
        > ono it jeho its
        > my we nas our
        > vy you guys vas your-guys's
        > oni they jejich their
        >
        > So now, as you see, like the southern paradigm, the northern paradigm
        > is complete, with both a singular and plural you. "I need to use
        > your-guys's phone."
        >
        > By the way, based on my observations in court, it is now considered
        > proper in some sectors of society to address judges by using the plural
        > you, that is "You Guys", rather than the old-fashioned "Your Honor".
        >
        > Jamie
        >
        >
        >
        > Czechlist resources:
        > http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • James Kirchner
        ... You were right. I m serious that a woman was doing this one day when I was interpreting in court. I am not serious that it is an acceptable way to
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 4, 2005
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          On Monday, July 4, 2005, at 03:57 PM, Hana Viansová wrote:

          > Jamie, are you serious here about addressing a judge You Guys? What
          > about
          > contempt of court? I've always felt that "you guys" was pretty
          > informal -
          > was I wrong?

          You were right. I'm serious that a woman was doing this one day when I
          was interpreting in court. I am not serious that it is an acceptable
          way to address a judge. This woman was obviously not well-raised and
          did not know how to address authority figures. I just found it
          hilarious that she chose the low colloquial plural you ("you guys") to
          address the judge. It struck me that her subconscious was trying to
          say "vy" in a language that doesn't have vykani and tykani.

          The traditional way to address a judge in the US is "Your Honor".
          However, lawyers now tend to address the judge as "Judge", and many
          judges seem to prefer it. The traditional way to address an archbishop
          used to be "Your Excellency", but it now appears to be more common here
          (and acceptable to archbishops) to address them as "Archbishop".

          Contempt of court is reserved for true contempt. A woman who is trying
          to be respectful but is so uncultured that she doesn't know any better
          than to address the judge as "You Guys" is not showing contempt, just
          lack of education, and I doubt any judge would think to penalize her.
          Similarly, I saw a man try to wiggle out of jury duty using a wild,
          ridiculous explanation that from any other person might have
          constituted contempt of court, but the judge merely excused him from
          the courtroom, apparently on the grounds that he was stupid.

          Jamie


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Kirchner
          ... That s true, but you have to remember that people have transformed you guys into a pronoun, and as such it can then be made possessive. So,
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 4, 2005
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            On Monday, July 4, 2005, at 04:02 PM, Hana Viansová wrote:

            > And BTW, how would you pronounce "you guys's" - [gaisis]? I'm
            > surprised by
            > the added "s" - you'd probably say you visited your parents' house,
            > right?
            > (not your parents's?:-)

            That's true, but you have to remember that people have transformed "you
            guys" into a pronoun, and as such it can then be made possessive. So,
            "your-guys's" would be pronounced [jrgajz@z], where @ represents a
            schwa, but sometimes it's pronounced [jrgajz]. The double possessive
            is optional. You can say "you-guys's", "your-guys" or "your-guys's".
            However, the expression must contain at least one possessive form, so
            using "you-guys" as a possessive pronoun is not generally allowed.

            Jamie


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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