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"Foreign and domestic", "Dead or alive"

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  • spektrum2002
    Jamie napsal: Foreign and domestic for some reason sounds better in English than domestic and foreign. To mne privedlo ke vzpomince, ze mi vzdycky bylo
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 30, 2005
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      Jamie napsal:
      "Foreign and domestic" for some reason sounds better in English than
      "domestic and foreign."
      To mne privedlo ke vzpomince, ze mi vzdycky bylo divne, proc se v
      cestine rika "zivy nebo mrtvy" (coz chapu jako "zivy, a kdyz to
      nepujde, tak aspon mrtvy), kdezto v anglictine je "dead or alive" (coz
      na mne pusobi krvelacnym dojmem "radeji mrtvy, ale zivy bude v
      nejhorsim pripade taky stacit"). To tak samozrejme jiste neni, ale
      zajimalo by mne, cim je ten slovosled urcen.
      Petr Adamek
    • melvyn.geo
      ... domestic and foreign. Can t agree with you on this one (I d say they are both equally acceptable) and notice FWIW the search engines put domestic and
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 1, 2005
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        Jamie napsal:
        >"Foreign and domestic" for some reason sounds better in English than
        "domestic and foreign."

        Can't agree with you on this one (I'd say they are both equally
        acceptable) and notice FWIW the search engines put "domestic and
        foreign" out in front.

        Petr napsal
        To mne privedlo ke vzpomince, ze mi vzdycky bylo divne, proc se v
        cestine rika "zivy nebo mrtvy" (coz chapu jako "zivy, a kdyz to
        nepujde, tak aspon mrtvy), kdezto v anglictine je "dead or alive" (coz
        na mne pusobi krvelacnym dojmem "radeji mrtvy, ale zivy bude v
        nejhorsim pripade taky stacit"). To tak samozrejme jiste neni, ale
        zajimalo by mne, cim je ten slovosled urcen.

        Tvoje otazka mi pripomnel pasaz od Stevena Pinkera - Words and Rules -
        The Ingredients of Language (Phoenix 1990 - s. 90)

        Three of the great linguists of the middle decades of the twentieth
        century, Roman Jakobson, Jerzy Kurylowicz and Morris Swadesh, noticed
        that in many languages the vowels pronounced with the tongue high and
        at the front of the mouth tend to be used for the basic forms of nouns
        and verbs (such as the singular form of a noun and the infinitive of a
        verb), whereas the vowels pronounced with the tongue lower and farther
        back tend to be used for the specially marked forms (such as plural
        nouns and tensed verbs). Moreover, the higher and farther front vowels
        have different connotations from the lower and farther back vowels in
        pairs of contrasting words. The high front vowels come first in
        expressions such as pitter-patter and dribs and drabs; we don't say
        patter-pitter or drabs and dribs. And in pairs such as this and that,
        here and there, and me and you, the higher and farther-to-the-front
        vowels are found in the word that means 'self' or 'near the self', the
        lower and farther-to-the-back word means 'other' or 'far from the
        self'. That is true not only in English but in many families of languages.

        Urcite jsou vyjimky ale asi je to aspon castecne reseni.

        M.
        A boy can learn a lot from a dog: obedience, loyalty, and the
        importance of turning around three times before lying down.
        - Robert Benchley
      • James Kirchner
        Also that, across languages, the high front vowels indicate smallness. Teeny is smaller than tiny , etc. Notice that in Czech the diminutive suffixes
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 1, 2005
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          Also that, across languages, the high front vowels indicate smallness.
          "Teeny" is smaller than "tiny", etc. Notice that in Czech the
          diminutive suffixes (teeny, tiny, sweetie I love you) tend to have
          front vowels (and the smaller the thing is, the more likely a high
          front /i/ is to appear in the suffix used), whereas the augmentative
          suffixes (you big monster I hate you) tend to contain a low back vowel.

          Jamie

          On Friday, July 1, 2005, at 08:15 AM, melvyn.geo wrote:

          > Three of the great linguists of the middle decades of the twentieth
          > century, Roman Jakobson, Jerzy Kurylowicz and Morris Swadesh, noticed
          > that in many languages the vowels pronounced with the tongue high and
          > at the front of the mouth tend to be used for the basic forms of nouns
          > and verbs (such as the singular form of a noun and the infinitive of a
          > verb), whereas the vowels pronounced with the tongue lower and farther
          > back tend to be used for the specially marked forms (such as plural
          > nouns and tensed verbs). Moreover, the higher and farther front vowels
          > have different connotations from the lower and farther back vowels in
          > pairs of contrasting words. The high front vowels come first in
          > expressions such as pitter-patter and dribs and drabs; we don't say
          > patter-pitter or drabs and dribs. And in pairs such as this and that,
          > here and there, and me and you, the higher and farther-to-the-front
          > vowels are found in the word that means 'self' or 'near the self', the
          > lower and farther-to-the-back word means 'other' or 'far from the
          > self'. That is true not only in English but in many families of
          > languages.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • spektrum2002
          To jsem si dal! Ze jsem se radeji nezeptal na neco z kvantove mechaniky, to by mi asi bylo srozumitelnejsi. Petr ... languages.
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 2, 2005
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            To jsem si dal! Ze jsem se radeji nezeptal na neco z kvantove
            mechaniky, to by mi asi bylo srozumitelnejsi.
            Petr
            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@d...> wrote:
            > Jamie napsal:
            > >"Foreign and domestic" for some reason sounds better in English than
            > "domestic and foreign."
            >
            > Can't agree with you on this one (I'd say they are both equally
            > acceptable) and notice FWIW the search engines put "domestic and
            > foreign" out in front.
            >
            > Petr napsal
            > To mne privedlo ke vzpomince, ze mi vzdycky bylo divne, proc se v
            > cestine rika "zivy nebo mrtvy" (coz chapu jako "zivy, a kdyz to
            > nepujde, tak aspon mrtvy), kdezto v anglictine je "dead or alive" (coz
            > na mne pusobi krvelacnym dojmem "radeji mrtvy, ale zivy bude v
            > nejhorsim pripade taky stacit"). To tak samozrejme jiste neni, ale
            > zajimalo by mne, cim je ten slovosled urcen.
            >
            > Tvoje otazka mi pripomnel pasaz od Stevena Pinkera - Words and Rules -
            > The Ingredients of Language (Phoenix 1990 - s. 90)
            >
            > Three of the great linguists of the middle decades of the twentieth
            > century, Roman Jakobson, Jerzy Kurylowicz and Morris Swadesh, noticed
            > that in many languages the vowels pronounced with the tongue high and
            > at the front of the mouth tend to be used for the basic forms of nouns
            > and verbs (such as the singular form of a noun and the infinitive of a
            > verb), whereas the vowels pronounced with the tongue lower and farther
            > back tend to be used for the specially marked forms (such as plural
            > nouns and tensed verbs). Moreover, the higher and farther front vowels
            > have different connotations from the lower and farther back vowels in
            > pairs of contrasting words. The high front vowels come first in
            > expressions such as pitter-patter and dribs and drabs; we don't say
            > patter-pitter or drabs and dribs. And in pairs such as this and that,
            > here and there, and me and you, the higher and farther-to-the-front
            > vowels are found in the word that means 'self' or 'near the self', the
            > lower and farther-to-the-back word means 'other' or 'far from the
            > self'. That is true not only in English but in many families of
            languages.
            >
            > Urcite jsou vyjimky ale asi je to aspon castecne reseni.
            >
            > M.
            > A boy can learn a lot from a dog: obedience, loyalty, and the
            > importance of turning around three times before lying down.
            > - Robert Benchley
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