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Re: THANKs -- TERM: kraj

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  • melvyn.geo
    ... the word ... degree ... I notice that the three historical Czech lands of Bohemia, Moravia and (bits of) Silesia are sometimes referred to (even by
    Message 1 of 12 , May 2 7:54 AM
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      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jirka Bolech" <jirka.bolech@s...>
      wrote:

      > I can't, however, but agree and adjust to the fact that 'region' is
      the word
      > most commonly used for "kraj", although 'province' does show a fair
      degree
      > of usage for this, not only by Czechs, but other nationalities,

      I notice that the three historical Czech lands of Bohemia, Moravia and
      (bits of) Silesia are sometimes referred to (even by encyclopedias
      such as Encarta) as the "Czech provinces" (i.e of the Austrian
      Empire). Possibly a source of confusion in some situations??

      And in any case, doesn't 'province' often have a rather traditional
      imperial/monarchical feel to it?

      Still, it's true that the title 'provincial governor' confers a
      certain grandeur on what we might otherwise rather prosaically call a
      'regional governor/administrator'. ;-)


      > "Kraj", within
      > names of particular ones, may be a good way of dealing with that
      issue...

      Or whichever translation you choose, add 'kraj' in brackets at the
      first mention. Always more than one way to skin a cat.

      BR

      Melvyn

      History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
      - WINSTON CHURCHILL
    • Michael Grant
      ... I ve used province once or twice for zeme (i.e. Bohemia/Moravia/Silesia). ... Well, as Jamie noted, I d probably really only use county for a
      Message 2 of 12 , May 2 8:12 AM
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        On May 2, 2005, at 9:01 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

        > Unlike Martin, I see certain superiority of using 'province' over using
        > 'region' for kraj, but I never meant to suggest really using the former
        > agains the main stream. I think 'province' is better than 'region',
        > because
        > without enough context or background, I believe, it is easier to guess
        > what
        > sort or relative size of administrative unit it is. 'Region' simply
        > has a
        > too broad meaning.

        I've used 'province' once or twice for 'zeme' (i.e.
        Bohemia/Moravia/Silesia).


        > I also agree with Michael that 'county' is a nice solution to
        > translating
        > "okres", as the well-established 'district' sounds more like it's for
        > election purposes only.

        Well, as Jamie noted, I'd probably really only use 'county' for a
        hrabstvi.

        Michael

        --
        "When you think you just lack words, what you really lack are ideas."
        - George Lakoff
      • kzgafas
        ... using ... former ... than region , because ... guess what ... simply has a ... is the word ... fair degree ... which ... translating ... for ... just
        Message 3 of 12 , May 2 10:28 AM
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          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jirka Bolech" <jirka.bolech@s...>
          wrote:
          > Thanks guys, Martin, Jamie, Michael, for your ideas.
          >
          > Unlike Martin, I see certain superiority of using 'province' over
          using
          > 'region' for kraj, but I never meant to suggest really using the
          former
          > agains the main stream. I think 'province' is better
          than 'region', because
          > without enough context or background, I believe, it is easier to
          guess what
          > sort or relative size of administrative unit it is. 'Region'
          simply has a
          > too broad meaning.
          >
          > I can't, however, but agree and adjust to the fact that 'region'
          is the word
          > most commonly used for "kraj", although 'province' does show a
          fair degree
          > of usage for this, not only by Czechs, but other nationalities,
          which
          > apparently have different dictionaries, as well.
          >
          > I also agree with Michael that 'county' is a nice solution to
          translating
          > "okres", as the well-established 'district' sounds more like it's
          for
          > election purposes only.
          >
          > Frankly, I'm not much wiser about translating "kraj" now. It's
          just occurred
          > to me that keeping the Czech word, perhaps capitalizing
          it, "Kraj", within
          > names of particular ones, may be a good way of dealing with that
          issue...

          I feel something weird or strange (old-fashioned?) in assigning CR
          administrative units as counties or provinces. I like much more
          regions and districts. You are right that they are both too broad
          terms, but they sound nice neutral and modern to me, and when used
          with the context making it clear...why not? Region of..., District
          of...
          It also seems to be an example of a case when you as a translator
          do not need to feel yourself obliged to find a solution, but rather
          leave it neutral and open toward further development (settling
          down).

          K.
        • Michael Gmail
          ... Krai and oblast seem to be pretty common in English with reference to Russian administrative units. I m not entirely sure whether that would be an
          Message 4 of 12 , May 3 6:19 PM
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            On May 2, 2005, at 9:54 AM, melvyn.geo wrote:

            >> "Kraj", within
            >> names of particular ones, may be a good way of dealing with that
            >>
            > issue...
            >
            > Or whichever translation you choose, add 'kraj' in brackets at the
            > first mention. Always more than one way to skin a cat.

            'Krai' and 'oblast' seem to be pretty common in English with
            reference to Russian administrative units. I'm not entirely sure
            whether that would be an argument for or against using the Czech
            words in English texts....

            Michael


            --
            <http://globalocal.blogspot.com/>

            "Open the pod bay doors, Hal."
            "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that."
          • Jirka Bolech
            More rather belated thanks for further ideas to Simon, Melvyn, Michael, and Kostas. Your respective contributions convinced me that region remains the best
            Message 5 of 12 , May 12 2:18 AM
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              More rather belated thanks for further ideas to Simon, Melvyn, Michael, and
              Kostas.

              Your respective contributions convinced me that 'region' remains the best
              safe choice translating "kraj" as an administrative unit of the Czech
              Republic with a bit of opening for the unexplored possibility of leaving the
              word in Czech...

              Jirka Bolech
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