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Help: glassmaking terms

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  • coilinoc
    Hi there are there any glassmaking experts out there who might be able to explain the following to me? Ovesy? (Context: Svitidla jsou ovesena kvalitnimi
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 30, 2005
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      Hi there
      are there any glassmaking experts out there who might be able to
      explain the following to me?

      Ovesy? (Context: "Svitidla jsou ovesena kvalitnimi kristalovymi
      ovesy strojne brousenými a obsahem více nez 30% PbO i bezolovnatymi
      ovesy historickeho typu)

      prejimani skla (flashing of glass/glass flashing?)

      domacenske sklo (no context I'm afraid)

      Hutne zdobene sklo (it's the hutne that throws me here - is it
      perhaps something to do with "hutni sklo"? i.e. free-blown glass?)


      mackarenska tyc? (context: Rucni vyroba mackarenskych tyci...)

      fondova kolekce + strikana kolekce (Context: Podnik rovnez vyrabi
      ovesová svitidla v sirokem sortimentu zahrnujicim kristalove,
      smaltove, fondove a strikane kolekce..)

      Also does anyone know what is meant by the words between asterisks
      in the following sentence:

      Tyto kolekce jsou slozeny z lustru, *nasteniku*, *stopnich*,
      stojanových a stolních lamp

      MTIA for any help
      COilin
    • James Kirchner
      I m not an expert, but I translated the massive Legenda o ceskem skle (after one phony messed it up and a true professional decided he wasn t specialized
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 30, 2005
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        I'm not an expert, but I translated the massive "Legenda o ceskem skle"
        (after one phony messed it up and a true professional decided he wasn't
        specialized enough), and I graduated from an art school that has a
        glass department, so I'll help you with whatever I can. I researched
        the book a lot, fought with the author a lot, consulted the Corning
        Glass Museum, and chased down the glass professors at my alma mater, so
        I know something, but not everything.

        On Wednesday, March 30, 2005, at 10:38 PM, coilinoc wrote:

        > are there any glassmaking experts out there who might be able to
        > explain the following to me?
        >
        > Ovesy? (Context: "Svitidla jsou ovesena kvalitnimi kristalovymi
        > ovesy strojne brousenými a obsahem více nez 30% PbO i bezolovnatymi
        > ovesy historickeho typu)

        These are chandelier pendants. I'd say something like, "The lighting
        fixtures are hung with quality machine-cut crystal pendants containing
        more than 30% lead, as well as historical-style lead-free pendants."
        Maybe someone else could word it better.

        > prejimani skla (flashing of glass/glass flashing?)

        "Prejimane sklo" is usually called "cased glass", especially when it's
        blown. So, you could call this "casing glass". However, the
        definition of "flashing" appears to be almost the same. Based on the
        fact that "casing" gets sextuple the space in the glass dictionaries,
        and even merits illustrations (while in some of the dictionaries
        "flashing" has no entry at all), "casing" is probably the way you
        should go. The colored glass used for casing comes as what are called
        "flashing knobs".

        > domacenske sklo (no context I'm afraid)

        I think this is more than likely just "domestic glass" (i.e., for home
        use).

        > Hutne zdobene sklo (it's the hutne that throws me here - is it
        > perhaps something to do with "hutni sklo"? i.e. free-blown glass?)

        "Glass decorated at the fire". It's any kind of glass that's been
        decorated while hot, as opposed to "cold decoration", which would be
        painted, enameled, engraved or cut. Even though this term "at the
        fire" is used a lot, I don't see any reason why you couldn't also say
        "decorated while hot" or "at the furnace". This decoration at the fire
        includes any method that involves heat, including casing, winding and
        embedding colored filaments, rolling the blown glass in ground colored
        glass or frit, etc.

        > mackarenska tyc? (context: Rucni vyroba mackarenskych tyci...)

        This is kind of a weird one, because we anglophones would think of it
        as involving "pressed glass", but the Czech language distinguishes
        between two kinds of pressed glass. One is "lisovane sklo", which
        involves larger items in a bigger mold, and the other is "mackane
        sklo", which is usually the pressing of small items, like beads and is
        often done in a type of plier mold. I think a "macarenska tyc" would
        probably be a rod of glass that can be heated at the end, so that a
        molten glob can be inserted into the mold at the end of the pliers and
        squeezed into shape. Using this type of rod you could press beads or
        whatever in quick succession.

        > fondova kolekce + strikana kolekce (Context: Podnik  rovnez vyrabi
        > ovesová svitidla v sirokem sortimentu zahrnujicim kristalove,
        > smaltove, fondove a strikane kolekce..)

        I haven't seen this before. It seems that "fond" can mean "ground" in
        English, in the sense of the background color of a painting surface.
        These could be unfinished goods that have a ground color and can then
        be enameled or otherwise decorated. I'm guessing they might also be
        just pendants of a solid, opaque color. So you've got crystal,
        enameled, [solid colored?] and stippled [by spraying, either with an
        air gun or a little blowpipe].

        > Also does anyone know what is meant by the words between asterisks
        > in the following sentence:
        >
        > Tyto kolekce jsou slozeny z lustru, *nasteniku*, *stopnich*,
        > stojanových a stolních lamp

        A nastenik is a wall-mounted chandelier or lighting fixture of some
        kind. I think "stopnich" may be a typo for "stropnich", so something
        on the strop. Take a look at these web pages:

        http://nakupujeme.cz/sklarny/index.php?idktg=175
        http://www.svoboda-obaly.cz/

        Jamie


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James Kirchner
        I don t think this got through the first time, so I m sending it again. I m not an expert, but I translated the massive Legenda o ceskem skle (after one
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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          I don't think this got through the first time, so I'm sending it again.

          I'm not an expert, but I translated the massive "Legenda o ceskem skle"
          (after one phony messed it up and a true professional decided he wasn't
          specialized enough), and I graduated from an art school that has a
          glass department, so I'll help you with whatever I can. I researched
          the book a lot, fought with the author a lot, consulted the Corning
          Glass Museum, and chased down the glass professors at my alma mater, so
          I know something, but not everything.

          On Wednesday, March 30, 2005, at 10:38 PM, coilinoc wrote:

          > are there any glassmaking experts out there who might be able to
          > explain the following to me?
          >
          > Ovesy? (Context: "Svitidla jsou ovesena kvalitnimi kristalovymi
          > ovesy strojne brousenými a obsahem více nez 30% PbO i bezolovnatymi
          > ovesy historickeho typu)

          These are chandelier pendants. I'd say something like, "The lighting
          fixtures are hung with quality machine-cut crystal pendants containing
          more than 30% lead, as well as historical-style lead-free pendants."
          Maybe someone else could word it better.

          > prejimani skla (flashing of glass/glass flashing?)

          "Prejimane sklo" is usually called "cased glass", especially when it's
          blown. So, you could call this "casing glass". However, the
          definition of "flashing" appears to be almost the same. Based on the
          fact that "casing" gets sextuple the space in the glass dictionaries,
          and even merits illustrations (while in some of the dictionaries
          "flashing" has no entry at all), "casing" is probably the way you
          should go. The colored glass used for casing comes as what are called
          "flashing knobs".

          > domacenske sklo (no context I'm afraid)

          I think this is more than likely just "domestic glass" (i.e., for home
          use).

          > Hutne zdobene sklo (it's the hutne that throws me here - is it
          > perhaps something to do with "hutni sklo"? i.e. free-blown glass?)

          "Glass decorated at the fire". It's any kind of glass that's been
          decorated while hot, as opposed to "cold decoration", which would be
          painted, enameled, engraved or cut. Even though this term "at the
          fire" is used a lot, I don't see any reason why you couldn't also say
          "decorated while hot" or "at the furnace". This decoration at the fire
          includes any method that involves heat, including casing, winding and
          embedding colored filaments, rolling the blown glass in ground colored
          glass or frit, etc.

          > mackarenska tyc? (context: Rucni vyroba mackarenskych tyci...)

          This is kind of a weird one, because we anglophones would think of it
          as involving "pressed glass", but the Czech language distinguishes
          between two kinds of pressed glass. One is "lisovane sklo", which
          involves larger items in a bigger mold, and the other is "mackane
          sklo", which is usually the pressing of small items, like beads and is
          often done in a type of plier mold. I think a "macarenska tyc" would
          probably be a rod of glass that can be heated at the end, so that a
          molten glob can be inserted into the mold at the end of the pliers and
          squeezed into shape. Using this type of rod you could press beads or
          whatever in quick succession.

          > fondova kolekce + strikana kolekce (Context: Podnik  rovnez vyrabi
          > ovesová svitidla v sirokem sortimentu zahrnujicim kristalove,
          > smaltove, fondove a strikane kolekce..)

          I haven't seen this before. It seems that "fond" can mean "ground" in
          English, in the sense of the background color of a painting surface.
          These could be unfinished goods that have a ground color and can then
          be enameled or otherwise decorated. I'm guessing they might also be
          just pendants of a solid, opaque color. So you've got crystal,
          enameled, [solid colored?] and stippled [by spraying, either with an
          air gun or a little blowpipe].

          > Also does anyone know what is meant by the words between asterisks
          > in the following sentence:
          >
          > Tyto kolekce jsou slozeny z lustru, *nasteniku*, *stopnich*,
          > stojanových a stolních lamp

          A nastenik is a wall-mounted chandelier or lighting fixture of some
          kind. I think "stopnich" may be a typo for "stropnich", so something
          on the strop. Take a look at these web pages:

          http://nakupujeme.cz/sklarny/index.php?idktg=175
          http://www.svoboda-obaly.cz/

          Jamie


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Terminus Technicus
          ... I think this is more than likely just domestic glass (i.e., for home use). ... is a failry good representative of a problem that crops up quite often on
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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            With all due respect to Jamie's impressive glassmaking knowledge, this:

            > domacenske sklo (no context I'm afraid)

            I think this is more than likely just "domestic glass" (i.e., for home
            use).

            ... is a failry good representative of a problem that crops up quite often
            on Czechlist.

            One English speaker (Coilin in this instance) gives us a list of ASCII, or
            non ASCII and messed up, words in Czech, with a few items that even Czech
            NS's can't decipher because they are extremely rare and/or because there
            probably was a typo somewhere in the ASCIIsation process or elsewhere along
            the line... (pls. make sure you do the annoying ASCII substitutes for hacky
            and carky at least in those weird and seldom heard of items (there were
            couple of similar cases in the weird menu lists in the past, and others I
            can't remember...))

            ... and then another English speaker identifies it for what it canot be
            using his imaginary Czech word-making skills (remember we have exception for
            every rule and this will almost never work)... DOMESTIC would be domaci, in
            some very old and weird docs maybe domacNOSTNI, but never DOMA'CENSKE' [I
            can only assume the punctuation, see above]...

            I could just have a few theories about the word if I got the hacky a carky,
            but couldn't be bothered to type out all of them given the lack thereof.

            BTW, mackarenska tyc sounds like a similar case, it could just exist in the
            meaning Jamie gives, but then the person using it would be Mac^kar^ (and
            that in turn sounds like some kind of cat hunter in Slovak) ... again, can't
            tell you more without the little things - there's a reason we have them,
            isn't there... in most cases most Czechs are ok with de-punctuated text,
            that's why Emails are written this way by most people, but when things are
            out of context and not exactly standard, hacky and carky come in handy..

            Just a little comment..

            S hlubokou u'ctou
            Va's^ Mate^j
          • James Kirchner
            ... How, in glassmaking, would you distinguish between domaci sklo in the sense of glass for home use, and domaci sklo in the sense of not foreign , i.e.,
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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              On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 09:14 AM, Terminus Technicus wrote:

              > DOMESTIC would be domaci, in
              > some very old and weird docs maybe domacNOSTNI, but never DOMA'CENSKE'
              > [I
              > can only assume the punctuation, see above]...

              How, in glassmaking, would you distinguish between "domaci sklo" in the
              sense of glass for home use, and "domaci sklo" in the sense of "not
              foreign", i.e., "nase"?

              > BTW, mackarenska tyc sounds like a similar case, it could just exist
              > in the
              > meaning Jamie gives, but then the person using it would be Mac^kar^
              > (and
              > that in turn sounds like some kind of cat hunter in Slovak)

              What would be your word for a guy whose job it is to put globs of glass
              into a plier mold and squeeze them into beads all day? I'm not saying
              I'm right and you're wrong, but they have strange terms for jobs and
              supplies like this that no Czech except the author of the book was able
              to help me with.

              Jamie



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Terminus Technicus
              ... We call that TUZEMSKY (yes, like that stuff that used to be called tuzemsky rum and is made of potatoes, now called Tuzemak, or Tuzemsky only because of
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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                > How, in glassmaking, would you distinguish between "domaci sklo" in the
                > sense of glass for home use, and "domaci sklo" in the sense of "not
                > foreign", i.e., "nase"?

                We call that TUZEMSKY (yes, like that stuff that used to be called tuzemsky
                rum and is made of potatoes, now called "Tuzemak, or Tuzemsky" only because
                of the EU...)

                >
                > > BTW, mackarenska tyc sounds like a similar case, it could just exist
                > > in the
                > > meaning Jamie gives, but then the person using it would be Mac^kar^
                > > (and
                > > that in turn sounds like some kind of cat hunter in Slovak)
                >
                > What would be your word for a guy whose job it is to put globs of glass
                > into a plier mold and squeeze them into beads all day? I'm not saying
                > I'm right and you're wrong, but they have strange terms for jobs and
                > supplies like this that no Czech except the author of the book was able
                > to help me with.

                Dunno, in an official thing, probably something like "delnik, zabyvajici se
                vyrobou koralku mackanim", delnik na mackacim stroji, could be something
                like "kora'lka'r^" at the shop floor... theoretically speaking, it should be
                MAC^KAC^, but that sounds too weird to my NS ears, same with MAC^KAR^, I
                don't think this route would have been taken by someone trying to think up a
                name for the job... but I could be wrong, chances are, though, that the name
                for the job, the machine and other items are derrived from Gewrman, since
                most beads and glass-making areas were in Sudettenland and most glass makers
                were German... try finding the German word for mackane sklo and then play
                with its Czech-ized version on Google and you might get there...

                ... and don't take what I said personally, I was merely trying to point out
                at a problem we sometimes see on Czechlist, if Coiling gave us diacritics
                (sorry, I called it punctuation in my previous post-wrongly), perhaps a
                Czech NS would imediatelly be able to identify it for a typo or a word
                they've heard - this gives us too many options to consider...

                M
              • James Kirchner
                ... Actually, Antonin Langhamer was able to write a whole history of Bohemian glass, describing the technologies and jobs, without more than two or three
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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                  On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 10:10 AM, Terminus Technicus wrote:

                  > chances are, though, that the name
                  > for the job, the machine and other items are derrived from Gewrman,
                  > since
                  > most beads and glass-making areas were in Sudettenland and most glass
                  > makers
                  > were German... try finding the German word for mackane sklo and then
                  > play
                  > with its Czech-ized version on Google and you might get there...

                  Actually, Antonin Langhamer was able to write a whole history of
                  Bohemian glass, describing the technologies and jobs, without more than
                  two or three German-derived terms. They seem to have Czech equivalents
                  for everything.

                  The worst term I ran into was obalovacka, which, according to the glass
                  prof at my school (the only one who would even attempt it) translates
                  into English as "rolling the blown glass into ground colored glass or
                  frit to get a surface effect". I was tempted to call it "breading",
                  but I didn't want to take the risk. ;-)

                  > ... and don't take what I said personally, I was merely trying to
                  > point out
                  > at a problem we sometimes see on Czechlist, if Coiling gave us
                  > diacritics
                  > (sorry, I  called it punctuation in my previous post-wrongly), perhaps
                  > a
                  > Czech NS would imediatelly be able to identify it for a typo or a word
                  > they've heard - this gives us too many options to consider...

                  I didn't take it personally. I was asking questions.

                  Jamie



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jaroslav Hejzlar
                  Ahoj, Matìji! From time to time I happen to translate some documents for VEBA Broumov, a textile manufacturing company, and as far as I can remember, they
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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                    Ahoj, Matěji!
                    From time to time I happen to translate some documents for VEBA Broumov,
                    a textile manufacturing company, and as far as I can remember, they have
                    been using the term "domácenský textil" quite often for many years. If
                    you try googling, you will get several dozen hits, mostly from textile,
                    glass and pottery related documents.
                    With best regards,
                    Jarda


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Terminus Technicus [mailto:czechlist@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:15 PM
                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: glassmaking terms


                    With all due respect to Jamie's impressive glassmaking knowledge, this:

                    > domacenske sklo (no context I'm afraid)

                    I think this is more than likely just "domestic glass" (i.e., for home
                    use).

                    ... is a failry good representative of a problem that crops up quite
                    often
                    on Czechlist.

                    One English speaker (Coilin in this instance) gives us a list of ASCII,
                    or
                    non ASCII and messed up, words in Czech, with a few items that even
                    Czech
                    NS's can't decipher because they are extremely rare and/or because there
                    probably was a typo somewhere in the ASCIIsation process or elsewhere
                    along
                    the line... (pls. make sure you do the annoying ASCII substitutes for
                    hacky
                    and carky at least in those weird and seldom heard of items (there were
                    couple of similar cases in the weird menu lists in the past, and others
                    I
                    can't remember...))

                    ... and then another English speaker identifies it for what it canot be
                    using his imaginary Czech word-making skills (remember we have exception
                    for
                    every rule and this will almost never work)... DOMESTIC would be domaci,
                    in
                    some very old and weird docs maybe domacNOSTNI, but never DOMA'CENSKE'
                    [I
                    can only assume the punctuation, see above]...

                    I could just have a few theories about the word if I got the hacky a
                    carky,
                    but couldn't be bothered to type out all of them given the lack thereof.

                    BTW, mackarenska tyc sounds like a similar case, it could just exist in
                    the
                    meaning Jamie gives, but then the person using it would be Mac^kar^ (and
                    that in turn sounds like some kind of cat hunter in Slovak) ... again,
                    can't
                    tell you more without the little things - there's a reason we have them,
                    isn't there... in most cases most Czechs are ok with de-punctuated text,
                    that's why Emails are written this way by most people, but when things
                    are
                    out of context and not exactly standard, hacky and carky come in handy..

                    Just a little comment..

                    S hlubokou u'ctou
                    Va's^ Mate^j







                    Czechlist resources:
                    http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation





                    Yahoo! Groups Links







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                  • Jaroslav Hejzlar
                    And by the way, the word domácenský is even listed in Slovník spisovného jazyka èeského. Jarda ... From: Jaroslav Hejzlar
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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                      And by the way, the word "domácenský" is even listed in Slovník
                      spisovného jazyka českého.
                      Jarda

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Jaroslav Hejzlar [mailto:jaroslav.hejzlar@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:01 PM
                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [Czechlist] Help: glassmaking terms


                      Ahoj, Matěji!
                      From time to time I happen to translate some documents for VEBA Broumov,
                      a textile manufacturing company, and as far as I can remember, they have
                      been using the term "domácenský textil" quite often for many years. If
                      you try googling, you will get several dozen hits, mostly from textile,
                      glass and pottery related documents.
                      With best regards,
                      Jarda


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Terminus Technicus [mailto:czechlist@...]
                      Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:15 PM
                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: glassmaking terms


                      With all due respect to Jamie's impressive glassmaking knowledge, this:

                      > domacenske sklo (no context I'm afraid)

                      I think this is more than likely just "domestic glass" (i.e., for home
                      use).

                      ... is a failry good representative of a problem that crops up quite
                      often
                      on Czechlist.

                      One English speaker (Coilin in this instance) gives us a list of ASCII,
                      or
                      non ASCII and messed up, words in Czech, with a few items that even
                      Czech
                      NS's can't decipher because they are extremely rare and/or because there
                      probably was a typo somewhere in the ASCIIsation process or elsewhere
                      along
                      the line... (pls. make sure you do the annoying ASCII substitutes for
                      hacky
                      and carky at least in those weird and seldom heard of items (there were
                      couple of similar cases in the weird menu lists in the past, and others
                      I
                      can't remember...))

                      ... and then another English speaker identifies it for what it canot be
                      using his imaginary Czech word-making skills (remember we have exception
                      for
                      every rule and this will almost never work)... DOMESTIC would be domaci,
                      in
                      some very old and weird docs maybe domacNOSTNI, but never DOMA'CENSKE'
                      [I
                      can only assume the punctuation, see above]...

                      I could just have a few theories about the word if I got the hacky a
                      carky,
                      but couldn't be bothered to type out all of them given the lack thereof.

                      BTW, mackarenska tyc sounds like a similar case, it could just exist in
                      the
                      meaning Jamie gives, but then the person using it would be Mac^kar^ (and
                      that in turn sounds like some kind of cat hunter in Slovak) ... again,
                      can't
                      tell you more without the little things - there's a reason we have them,
                      isn't there... in most cases most Czechs are ok with de-punctuated text,
                      that's why Emails are written this way by most people, but when things
                      are
                      out of context and not exactly standard, hacky and carky come in handy..

                      Just a little comment..

                      S hlubokou u'ctou
                      Va's^ Mate^j







                      Czechlist resources:
                      http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation





                      Yahoo! Groups Links







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                      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.6 - Release Date: 30.3.2005


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                      Czechlist resources:
                      http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation





                      Yahoo! Groups Links







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                    • coilinoc
                      Thanks to everyone (especially Jamie) who chipped in with those weird glassmaking terms. Coilin
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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                        Thanks to everyone (especially Jamie) who chipped in with those weird
                        glassmaking terms.
                        Coilin
                      • James Kirchner
                        ... Yes, in which one of its synonyms is domaci . Jamie
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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                          On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Jaroslav Hejzlar wrote:

                          > And by the way, the word "domácenský" is even listed in Slovník
                          > spisovného jazyka českého.

                          Yes, in which one of its synonyms is "domaci".

                          Jamie
                        • Hořejší Eva Ing.
                          Kdyz jste narazili na ten textil, mnohem vice by se mi tam libilo - analogicky home textile - bytovy textil home glass - bytove sklo Zdravi Eva Horejsi ...
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
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                            Kdyz jste narazili na ten textil, mnohem vice by se mi tam libilo -
                            analogicky home textile - bytovy textil
                            home glass - bytove sklo

                            Zdravi
                            Eva Horejsi

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Jaroslav Hejzlar" <jaroslav.hejzlar@...>
                            To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM
                            Subject: RE: [Czechlist] Help: glassmaking terms


                            >
                            > Ahoj, Matěji!
                            > >From time to time I happen to translate some documents for VEBA Broumov,
                            > a textile manufacturing company, and as far as I can remember, they have
                            > been using the term "domácenský textil" quite often for many years. If
                            > you try googling, you will get several dozen hits, mostly from textile,
                            > glass and pottery related documents.
                            > With best regards,
                            > Jarda
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Terminus Technicus [mailto:czechlist@...]
                            > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:15 PM
                            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: glassmaking terms
                            >
                            >
                            > With all due respect to Jamie's impressive glassmaking knowledge, this:
                            >
                            > > domacenske sklo (no context I'm afraid)
                            >
                            > I think this is more than likely just "domestic glass" (i.e., for home
                            > use).
                            >
                            > ... is a failry good representative of a problem that crops up quite
                            > often
                            > on Czechlist.
                            >
                            > One English speaker (Coilin in this instance) gives us a list of ASCII,
                            > or
                            > non ASCII and messed up, words in Czech, with a few items that even
                            > Czech
                            > NS's can't decipher because they are extremely rare and/or because there
                            > probably was a typo somewhere in the ASCIIsation process or elsewhere
                            > along
                            > the line... (pls. make sure you do the annoying ASCII substitutes for
                            > hacky
                            > and carky at least in those weird and seldom heard of items (there were
                            > couple of similar cases in the weird menu lists in the past, and others
                            > I
                            > can't remember...))
                            >
                            > ... and then another English speaker identifies it for what it canot be
                            > using his imaginary Czech word-making skills (remember we have exception
                            > for
                            > every rule and this will almost never work)... DOMESTIC would be domaci,
                            > in
                            > some very old and weird docs maybe domacNOSTNI, but never DOMA'CENSKE'
                            > [I
                            > can only assume the punctuation, see above]...
                            >
                            > I could just have a few theories about the word if I got the hacky a
                            > carky,
                            > but couldn't be bothered to type out all of them given the lack thereof.
                            >
                            > BTW, mackarenska tyc sounds like a similar case, it could just exist in
                            > the
                            > meaning Jamie gives, but then the person using it would be Mac^kar^ (and
                            > that in turn sounds like some kind of cat hunter in Slovak) ... again,
                            > can't
                            > tell you more without the little things - there's a reason we have them,
                            > isn't there... in most cases most Czechs are ok with de-punctuated text,
                            > that's why Emails are written this way by most people, but when things
                            > are
                            > out of context and not exactly standard, hacky and carky come in handy..
                            >
                            > Just a little comment..
                            >
                            > S hlubokou u'ctou
                            > Va's^ Mate^j
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Czechlist resources:
                            > http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            > Czechlist resources:
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                            >
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                          • Terminus Technicus
                            My apology, didn t know this weird word actually exist, not very grammatical or logical, is it... anyway, still think we should get hacky and carky, especially
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 31, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              My apology, didn't know this weird word actually exist, not very grammatical
                              or logical, is it... anyway, still think we should get hacky and carky,
                              especially in those long out of context lists of weird terms...

                              M
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
                              To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:38 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: glassmaking terms




                              On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Jaroslav Hejzlar wrote:

                              > And by the way, the word "domácenský" is even listed in Slovník
                              > spisovného jazyka českého.

                              Yes, in which one of its synonyms is "domaci".

                              Jamie



                              Czechlist resources:
                              http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation





                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • James Kirchner
                              There s no apology needed. You can t imagine how many times I ve told people X doesn t exist or isn t possible in English, only to be proven wrong later. I
                              Message 14 of 14 , Apr 1, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                There's no apology needed. You can't imagine how many times I've told
                                people "X" doesn't exist or isn't possible in English, only to be
                                proven wrong later. I can't make native-speaker judgments about
                                whether something sounds right or not in Czech, so I appreciate someone
                                out there being a foil to my assertions and to make me research them.

                                And I agree that we need hacky and carky.

                                Jamie

                                On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 02:53 AM, Terminus Technicus wrote:

                                > My apology, didn't know this weird word actually exist, not very
                                > grammatical
                                > or logical, is it... anyway, still think we should get hacky and carky,
                                > especially in those long out of context lists of weird terms...
                                >
                                > M
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...>
                                > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:38 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Help: glassmaking terms
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Jaroslav Hejzlar wrote:
                                >
                                >> And by the way, the word "domácenský" is even listed in Slovník
                                >> spisovného jazyka českého.
                                >
                                > Yes, in which one of its synonyms is "domaci".
                                >
                                > Jamie
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Czechlist resources:
                                > http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Czechlist resources:
                                > http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                                >
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