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Re: quiche, silverware

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  • Melvyn Clarke
    ... for your ... cutlery. ... World ... think of ... mean a set ... Hello Jamie, Lin et al, Hmmm, more surprising differences between British and AMerican
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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      --- In Czechlist@egroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 10/2/00 7:34:50 AM, lindsaylockyer@h... writes:
      >
      > >I would only use the word silverware if the items were silver, not
      for your
      > >ordinary everyday stainless steel cutlery - I'd just call that
      cutlery.
      >
      > Cutlery is generally used to mean cutting utensils. Webster's New
      World
      > includes spoons in its secondary definition of cutlery, but when I
      think of
      > cutlery I never think of spoons or forks. A set of cutlery would
      mean a set
      > of varying types of knives. No spoons or forks.
      >
      > Jamie

      Hello Jamie, Lin et al,

      Hmmm, more surprising differences between British and AMerican usage
      that can catch the unwary.

      I have an old British English Dictionary from 1960 which defines
      cutlery as 'knives and other edged instruments or tools' with no
      mention of spoons and forks but my 1994 Collins Cobuild gives us
      'knives, forks and spoons that you eat your food with' and no special
      mention of cutting implements. I think most Brits would use the
      second
      meaning only - don't know if the first is used in professional jargon
      at all.

      As for 'plastic silverware', this does sound rather amusing to
      British
      ears, I think. Collins Cobuild says: 'knives, forks, dishes and other
      things for the table that are made from silver or from a metal that
      looks like silver'. Even that last bit is pushing it a bit in my
      book.
      Silverware that is not silver sounds like something you would keep
      well hidden in your cabinet and only bring out when Americans come to
      visit <just kidding, honest>. Bit like porcelain that is not
      porcelain.

      Melvyn
    • Jetlk@aol.com
      I am sorry but I have, our insurance
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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        I am sorry but I have, our insurance
      • Jetlk@aol.com
        I am sorry, but I have! We have a house insurance and there it says , that it includes silverware and lists coffee pot, milk jug etc. Liba
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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          I am sorry, but I have! We have a house insurance and there it says , that it
          includes silverware and lists coffee pot, milk jug etc.
          Liba
        • Jetlk@aol.com
          Dear Jamie, I
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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            Dear Jamie,
            I
          • Jetlk@aol.com
            Dear Jamie, I would like to take you shopping to a London department store, where we would buy together for our new house a beautiful cutlery set , which will
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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              Dear Jamie,
              I would like to take you shopping to a London department store, where we
              would buy together for our new house a beautiful cutlery set , which will
              very definitely include forks, spoons and knives and probably other little
              gadgets - fish knives, tea spoons, etc.
              LIBA
            • Lindsay Lockyer
              ... If you wanted to buy a box of knives, forks, spoons etc it would just be called a set of cutlery, not cutlery with forks and spoons thrown in . My
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                >From: JPKIRCHNER@...
                >Reply-To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                >To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [Czechlist] quiche, silverware
                >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:06:50 EDT
                >
                >


                If you wanted to buy a box of knives, forks, spoons etc it would just be
                called a set of cutlery, not "cutlery with forks and spoons thrown in". My
                dictionary says "knives, forks and spoons for domestic use".

                Lindsay





                >Cutlery is generally used to mean cutting utensils. Webster's New World
                >includes spoons in its secondary definition of cutlery, but when I think of
                >cutlery I never think of spoons or forks. A set of cutlery would mean a
                >set
                >of varying types of knives. No spoons or forks.
                >
                >Jamie
                >
                >
                >
                >

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              • Lindsay Lockyer
                ... I understand silverware to be anything either made of silver, or silver plated. Lindsay ...
                Message 7 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                  >From: "Melvyn Clarke" <zehrovak@...>

                  I understand silverware to be anything either made of silver, or silver
                  plated.

                  Lindsay




                  >Reply-To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                  >To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                  >Subject: [Czechlist] Re: quiche, silverware
                  >Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:21:37 -0000
                  >
                  >Silverware that is not silver sounds like something you would keep
                  >well hidden in your cabinet and only bring out when Americans come to
                  >visit <just kidding, honest>. Bit like porcelain that is not
                  >porcelain.
                  >
                  >Melvyn
                  >



                  >
                  >
                  >

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                • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                  ... Go on! :-)
                  Message 8 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                    In a message dated 10/2/00 10:40:23 AM, Jetlk@... writes:

                    >Dear Jamie,
                    >I

                    Go on! :-)
                  • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                    ... In normal usage, I always understood cutlery to be cutting utensils and when combined with forks, spoons and other implements it is usually called
                    Message 9 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                      In a message dated 10/2/00 11:12:06 AM, lindsaylockyer@... writes:

                      >If you wanted to buy a box of knives, forks, spoons etc it would just be
                      >called a set of cutlery, not "cutlery with forks and spoons thrown in".
                      > My dictionary says "knives, forks and spoons for domestic use".

                      In normal usage, I always understood cutlery to be cutting utensils and when
                      combined with forks, spoons and other implements it is usually called
                      "tableware". I insist that this is normal US usage. Of course, there is
                      also "flatware".

                      JK
                    • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                      ... Even jewelry or a tooth filling?
                      Message 10 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                        In a message dated 10/2/00 11:15:18 AM, lindsaylockyer@... writes:

                        >I understand silverware to be anything either made of silver, or silver
                        >plated.

                        Even jewelry or a tooth filling?
                      • Jetlk@aol.com
                        Sorry, have anew mouse and twitching finger!!!!! Liba
                        Message 11 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                          Sorry,
                          have anew mouse and twitching finger!!!!!
                          Liba
                        • Barendregt
                          From my practical experience (as a server, no dictionaries used), I can say that we used the word silverware for any metal spoons, forks, and knives (we had
                          Message 12 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                            From my practical experience (as a server, no dictionaries used), I can
                            say that we used the word "silverware" for any metal spoons, forks, and
                            knives (we had some implements made of silver, usually used for serving,
                            but most were just stainless steel). "Cutlery" was never used and I
                            suspect that in American English it is virtually extinct. Incidentally,
                            our pots and fruit punch bowls, etc. (in the restaurant) were sometimes
                            referred to as silverware because they were made of silver and needed
                            special treatment (pain in the neck!).
                            I would even support Jamie's assertion that you may come across "plastic
                            silverware" (I would probably tend to use "disposable" instead of
                            "plastic" just to feel better about it) - since we (in the US) do not
                            use the word "cutlery", what else is left to describe "spoons, forks,
                            and knives" than silverware? I think the word itself is now pretty much
                            independent of the original meaning of one of its components (yep, I am
                            referring to silver).

                            Tom
                          • jpelka@seznam.cz
                            ... just be ... in . ... and when ... called ... there is ... To make it more topic and interesting, in my EU document, there was an item called Cutlery,
                            Message 13 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                              --- In Czechlist@egroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
                              >
                              > In a message dated 10/2/00 11:12:06 AM, lindsaylockyer@h... writes:
                              >
                              > >If you wanted to buy a box of knives, forks, spoons etc it would
                              just be
                              > >called a set of cutlery, not "cutlery with forks and spoons thrown
                              in".
                              > > My dictionary says "knives, forks and spoons for domestic use".
                              >
                              > In normal usage, I always understood cutlery to be cutting utensils
                              and when
                              > combined with forks, spoons and other implements it is usually
                              called
                              > "tableware". I insist that this is normal US usage. Of course,
                              there is
                              > also "flatware".
                              >
                              > JK

                              To make it more topic and interesting, in my EU document, there was
                              an item called
                              "Cutlery, flatware, and silverware".

                              Very interesting discussion, indeed, guys (and girls?).

                              Jirka P.

                              PS Another Q. - does "guys" include "girls", too (as I assume), or,
                              in order to be PC (politically correct), one has to say "guys and
                              girls"?
                            • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                              ... I would have to disagree that the term cutlery is not used in the US. It is used frequently, particularly in advertising, but only to refer to kitchen
                              Message 14 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                                In a message dated 10/2/00 12:50:32 PM, barendregt@... writes:

                                >I would even support Jamie's assertion that you may come across "plastic
                                >silverware" (I would probably tend to use "disposable" instead of
                                >"plastic" just to feel better about it) - since we (in the US) do not
                                >use the word "cutlery", what else is left to describe "spoons, forks,
                                >and knives" than silverware? I think the word itself is now pretty much
                                >independent of the original meaning of one of its components (yep, I am
                                >referring to silver).

                                I would have to disagree that the term "cutlery" is not used in the US. It
                                is used frequently, particularly in advertising, but only to refer to kitchen
                                and dining utensils that cut. Which sort of makes sense, doesn't it?

                                Jamie
                              • Michael Grant
                                ... My take is that the word is not all that frequently used, but when it is it can include forks and spoons. My AHD includes both definitions, plus a third:
                                Message 15 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
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                                  >I would have to disagree that the term "cutlery" is not used in the US. It
                                  >is used frequently, particularly in advertising, but only to refer to kitchen
                                  >and dining utensils that cut. Which sort of makes sense, doesn't it?

                                  My take is that the word is not all that frequently used, but when it
                                  is it can include forks and spoons. My AHD includes both definitions,
                                  plus a third: "the occupation of a cutler".
                                  :-)
                                  Michael

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                                • Lindsay Lockyer
                                  Jamie, Ach! No! You ve got me there! No, silverware does not cover silver jewellery. And I didn t know anyone had silver tooth fillings. Would anyone
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
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                                    Jamie,

                                    Ach! No! You've got me there! No, silverware does not cover silver
                                    jewellery. And I didn't know anyone had silver tooth fillings. Would
                                    anyone really want to advertise the fact that they can't afford a gold one?

                                    Lindsay




                                    >From: JPKIRCHNER@...
                                    >Reply-To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                                    >To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: quiche, silverware
                                    >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:01:57 EDT
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >In a message dated 10/2/00 11:15:18 AM, lindsaylockyer@... writes:
                                    >
                                    > >I understand silverware to be anything either made of silver, or silver
                                    > >plated.
                                    >
                                    >Even jewelry or a tooth filling?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

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                                  • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                                    ... Another thing: Silverware will often be used to refer to stainless steel flatware, but the term will never include a steel coffee pot. So once the term
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
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                                      In a message dated 10/3/00 5:40:21 AM, lindsaylockyer@... writes:

                                      >Ach! No! You've got me there! No, silverware does not cover silver
                                      >jewellery. And I didn't know anyone had silver tooth fillings. Would
                                      >anyone really want to advertise the fact that they can't afford a gold
                                      >one?

                                      Another thing: Silverware will often be used to refer to stainless steel
                                      flatware, but the term will never include a steel coffee pot. So once the
                                      term is used for items that are not made of silver, it narrows.

                                      As for those fillings, I can't imagine a world where people don't have silver
                                      ones. Here the majority of people have either silver amalgam fillings or
                                      porcelain composite. Of course, people under 24 tend to have no fillings,
                                      because the preventive technology is better now than when I was a weester.

                                      Jamie
                                    • Lindsay Lockyer
                                      ... I haven t heard of flatware. What is it? Something flat? Like a plate? By tableware, I would think you were meaning all knives, forks, spoons and
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
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                                        >Jamie wrote:
                                        >
                                        >In normal usage, I always understood cutlery to be cutting utensils and
                                        >when
                                        >combined with forks, spoons and other implements it is usually called
                                        >"tableware". I insist that this is normal US usage. Of course, there is
                                        >also "flatware".
                                        >
                                        >JK





                                        I haven't heard of flatware. What is it? Something flat? Like a plate?
                                        By tableware, I would think you were meaning all knives, forks, spoons and
                                        crockery ... and teapots and coffeepots: in fact anything that goes on a
                                        table. As for cutlery, if we're going to be ever so, *ever so* strict about
                                        it then a cutler deals with blades, not merely knives, so cutlery covers any
                                        blade: knives, swords, daggers, axes, machetes, halberds etc. However, your
                                        average person on the street (here) would understand cutlery to be knives,
                                        forks, spoons and so on. Now I shall bear in mind all you have said so I
                                        don't show myself up if I take a holiday in the US.

                                        : )
                                        Lindsay

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                                      • Jirka Bolech
                                        ... My boring stereotype, a quote from Webster s: flatware, n. 1. utensils, as knives, forks, and spoons, used at the table for serving and eating food. 2.
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
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                                          Lindsay Lockyer wrote:

                                          > I haven't heard of flatware. What is it? Something flat? Like a plate?

                                          My boring stereotype, a quote from Webster's:

                                          flatware, n.
                                          1. utensils, as knives, forks, and spoons, used at the table for serving and
                                          eating food.
                                          2. dishes or containers for the table that are more or less flat, as plates
                                          and saucers (distinguished from hollowware).

                                          I'd just add: How straightforward!

                                          Jirka Bolech
                                        • Michael Grant
                                          I just noticed some orange Halloween plasticware labeled cutlery at the grocery store--including knives, spoons, and forks. FWIW. Michael -- BLUE DANUBE
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
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                                            I just noticed some orange Halloween plasticware labeled "cutlery" at
                                            the grocery store--including knives, spoons, and forks. FWIW.

                                            Michael

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                                          • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                                            ... How do the knives cut? :-)
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
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                                              In a message dated 10/3/00 8:05:37 PM, mgrant@... writes:

                                              >I just noticed some orange Halloween plasticware labeled "cutlery" at
                                              >the grocery store--including knives, spoons, and forks. FWIW.

                                              How do the knives cut? :-)
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