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Re: [Czechlist] quiche, silverware

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  • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
    ... We often talk of using plastic silverware at picnics and informal parties, so no, it doesn t have to be made of silver. However, to my knowledge,
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
      In a message dated 10/2/00 5:08:36 AM, jpelka@... writes:

      > do you use "silverware" exclusively in context of "silver" cutlery
      >and articles like trays, etc.? Or, can you use "silverware" for any
      >cutlery (including stainless)?

      We often talk of using "plastic silverware" at picnics and informal parties,
      so no, it doesn't have to be made of silver. However, to my knowledge,
      silverware does not include things like trays, but just knives, forks, spoons
      and other utensils directly involved in transporting food from plate to mouth.

      Jamie
    • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
      ... I have never heard coffee pots or milk jugs referred to as silverware. JK
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
        In a message dated 10/2/00 6:02:23 AM, Jetlk@... writes:

        >"Silverware" could be anything made of silver, cutlery, trays, coffee pots,
        >milk jugs etc.

        I have never heard coffee pots or milk jugs referred to as silverware.

        JK
      • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
        ... Cutlery is generally used to mean cutting utensils. Webster s New World includes spoons in its secondary definition of cutlery, but when I think of
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
          In a message dated 10/2/00 7:34:50 AM, lindsaylockyer@... writes:

          >I would only use the word silverware if the items were silver, not for your
          >ordinary everyday stainless steel cutlery - I'd just call that cutlery.

          Cutlery is generally used to mean cutting utensils. Webster's New World
          includes spoons in its secondary definition of cutlery, but when I think of
          cutlery I never think of spoons or forks. A set of cutlery would mean a set
          of varying types of knives. No spoons or forks.

          Jamie
        • Melvyn Clarke
          ... for your ... cutlery. ... World ... think of ... mean a set ... Hello Jamie, Lin et al, Hmmm, more surprising differences between British and AMerican
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
            --- In Czechlist@egroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
            >
            > In a message dated 10/2/00 7:34:50 AM, lindsaylockyer@h... writes:
            >
            > >I would only use the word silverware if the items were silver, not
            for your
            > >ordinary everyday stainless steel cutlery - I'd just call that
            cutlery.
            >
            > Cutlery is generally used to mean cutting utensils. Webster's New
            World
            > includes spoons in its secondary definition of cutlery, but when I
            think of
            > cutlery I never think of spoons or forks. A set of cutlery would
            mean a set
            > of varying types of knives. No spoons or forks.
            >
            > Jamie

            Hello Jamie, Lin et al,

            Hmmm, more surprising differences between British and AMerican usage
            that can catch the unwary.

            I have an old British English Dictionary from 1960 which defines
            cutlery as 'knives and other edged instruments or tools' with no
            mention of spoons and forks but my 1994 Collins Cobuild gives us
            'knives, forks and spoons that you eat your food with' and no special
            mention of cutting implements. I think most Brits would use the
            second
            meaning only - don't know if the first is used in professional jargon
            at all.

            As for 'plastic silverware', this does sound rather amusing to
            British
            ears, I think. Collins Cobuild says: 'knives, forks, dishes and other
            things for the table that are made from silver or from a metal that
            looks like silver'. Even that last bit is pushing it a bit in my
            book.
            Silverware that is not silver sounds like something you would keep
            well hidden in your cabinet and only bring out when Americans come to
            visit <just kidding, honest>. Bit like porcelain that is not
            porcelain.

            Melvyn
          • Jetlk@aol.com
            I am sorry but I have, our insurance
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
              I am sorry but I have, our insurance
            • Jetlk@aol.com
              I am sorry, but I have! We have a house insurance and there it says , that it includes silverware and lists coffee pot, milk jug etc. Liba
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                I am sorry, but I have! We have a house insurance and there it says , that it
                includes silverware and lists coffee pot, milk jug etc.
                Liba
              • Jetlk@aol.com
                Dear Jamie, I
                Message 7 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                  Dear Jamie,
                  I
                • Jetlk@aol.com
                  Dear Jamie, I would like to take you shopping to a London department store, where we would buy together for our new house a beautiful cutlery set , which will
                  Message 8 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                    Dear Jamie,
                    I would like to take you shopping to a London department store, where we
                    would buy together for our new house a beautiful cutlery set , which will
                    very definitely include forks, spoons and knives and probably other little
                    gadgets - fish knives, tea spoons, etc.
                    LIBA
                  • Lindsay Lockyer
                    ... If you wanted to buy a box of knives, forks, spoons etc it would just be called a set of cutlery, not cutlery with forks and spoons thrown in . My
                    Message 9 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                      >From: JPKIRCHNER@...
                      >Reply-To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                      >To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [Czechlist] quiche, silverware
                      >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:06:50 EDT
                      >
                      >


                      If you wanted to buy a box of knives, forks, spoons etc it would just be
                      called a set of cutlery, not "cutlery with forks and spoons thrown in". My
                      dictionary says "knives, forks and spoons for domestic use".

                      Lindsay





                      >Cutlery is generally used to mean cutting utensils. Webster's New World
                      >includes spoons in its secondary definition of cutlery, but when I think of
                      >cutlery I never think of spoons or forks. A set of cutlery would mean a
                      >set
                      >of varying types of knives. No spoons or forks.
                      >
                      >Jamie
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

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                    • Lindsay Lockyer
                      ... I understand silverware to be anything either made of silver, or silver plated. Lindsay ...
                      Message 10 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                        >From: "Melvyn Clarke" <zehrovak@...>

                        I understand silverware to be anything either made of silver, or silver
                        plated.

                        Lindsay




                        >Reply-To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                        >To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                        >Subject: [Czechlist] Re: quiche, silverware
                        >Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:21:37 -0000
                        >
                        >Silverware that is not silver sounds like something you would keep
                        >well hidden in your cabinet and only bring out when Americans come to
                        >visit <just kidding, honest>. Bit like porcelain that is not
                        >porcelain.
                        >
                        >Melvyn
                        >



                        >
                        >
                        >

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                      • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                        ... Go on! :-)
                        Message 11 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                          In a message dated 10/2/00 10:40:23 AM, Jetlk@... writes:

                          >Dear Jamie,
                          >I

                          Go on! :-)
                        • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                          ... In normal usage, I always understood cutlery to be cutting utensils and when combined with forks, spoons and other implements it is usually called
                          Message 12 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                            In a message dated 10/2/00 11:12:06 AM, lindsaylockyer@... writes:

                            >If you wanted to buy a box of knives, forks, spoons etc it would just be
                            >called a set of cutlery, not "cutlery with forks and spoons thrown in".
                            > My dictionary says "knives, forks and spoons for domestic use".

                            In normal usage, I always understood cutlery to be cutting utensils and when
                            combined with forks, spoons and other implements it is usually called
                            "tableware". I insist that this is normal US usage. Of course, there is
                            also "flatware".

                            JK
                          • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                            ... Even jewelry or a tooth filling?
                            Message 13 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                              In a message dated 10/2/00 11:15:18 AM, lindsaylockyer@... writes:

                              >I understand silverware to be anything either made of silver, or silver
                              >plated.

                              Even jewelry or a tooth filling?
                            • Jetlk@aol.com
                              Sorry, have anew mouse and twitching finger!!!!! Liba
                              Message 14 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                                Sorry,
                                have anew mouse and twitching finger!!!!!
                                Liba
                              • Barendregt
                                From my practical experience (as a server, no dictionaries used), I can say that we used the word silverware for any metal spoons, forks, and knives (we had
                                Message 15 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                                  From my practical experience (as a server, no dictionaries used), I can
                                  say that we used the word "silverware" for any metal spoons, forks, and
                                  knives (we had some implements made of silver, usually used for serving,
                                  but most were just stainless steel). "Cutlery" was never used and I
                                  suspect that in American English it is virtually extinct. Incidentally,
                                  our pots and fruit punch bowls, etc. (in the restaurant) were sometimes
                                  referred to as silverware because they were made of silver and needed
                                  special treatment (pain in the neck!).
                                  I would even support Jamie's assertion that you may come across "plastic
                                  silverware" (I would probably tend to use "disposable" instead of
                                  "plastic" just to feel better about it) - since we (in the US) do not
                                  use the word "cutlery", what else is left to describe "spoons, forks,
                                  and knives" than silverware? I think the word itself is now pretty much
                                  independent of the original meaning of one of its components (yep, I am
                                  referring to silver).

                                  Tom
                                • jpelka@seznam.cz
                                  ... just be ... in . ... and when ... called ... there is ... To make it more topic and interesting, in my EU document, there was an item called Cutlery,
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                                    --- In Czechlist@egroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > In a message dated 10/2/00 11:12:06 AM, lindsaylockyer@h... writes:
                                    >
                                    > >If you wanted to buy a box of knives, forks, spoons etc it would
                                    just be
                                    > >called a set of cutlery, not "cutlery with forks and spoons thrown
                                    in".
                                    > > My dictionary says "knives, forks and spoons for domestic use".
                                    >
                                    > In normal usage, I always understood cutlery to be cutting utensils
                                    and when
                                    > combined with forks, spoons and other implements it is usually
                                    called
                                    > "tableware". I insist that this is normal US usage. Of course,
                                    there is
                                    > also "flatware".
                                    >
                                    > JK

                                    To make it more topic and interesting, in my EU document, there was
                                    an item called
                                    "Cutlery, flatware, and silverware".

                                    Very interesting discussion, indeed, guys (and girls?).

                                    Jirka P.

                                    PS Another Q. - does "guys" include "girls", too (as I assume), or,
                                    in order to be PC (politically correct), one has to say "guys and
                                    girls"?
                                  • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                                    ... I would have to disagree that the term cutlery is not used in the US. It is used frequently, particularly in advertising, but only to refer to kitchen
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                                      In a message dated 10/2/00 12:50:32 PM, barendregt@... writes:

                                      >I would even support Jamie's assertion that you may come across "plastic
                                      >silverware" (I would probably tend to use "disposable" instead of
                                      >"plastic" just to feel better about it) - since we (in the US) do not
                                      >use the word "cutlery", what else is left to describe "spoons, forks,
                                      >and knives" than silverware? I think the word itself is now pretty much
                                      >independent of the original meaning of one of its components (yep, I am
                                      >referring to silver).

                                      I would have to disagree that the term "cutlery" is not used in the US. It
                                      is used frequently, particularly in advertising, but only to refer to kitchen
                                      and dining utensils that cut. Which sort of makes sense, doesn't it?

                                      Jamie
                                    • Michael Grant
                                      ... My take is that the word is not all that frequently used, but when it is it can include forks and spoons. My AHD includes both definitions, plus a third:
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Oct 2, 2000
                                        >I would have to disagree that the term "cutlery" is not used in the US. It
                                        >is used frequently, particularly in advertising, but only to refer to kitchen
                                        >and dining utensils that cut. Which sort of makes sense, doesn't it?

                                        My take is that the word is not all that frequently used, but when it
                                        is it can include forks and spoons. My AHD includes both definitions,
                                        plus a third: "the occupation of a cutler".
                                        :-)
                                        Michael

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                                      • Lindsay Lockyer
                                        Jamie, Ach! No! You ve got me there! No, silverware does not cover silver jewellery. And I didn t know anyone had silver tooth fillings. Would anyone
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
                                          Jamie,

                                          Ach! No! You've got me there! No, silverware does not cover silver
                                          jewellery. And I didn't know anyone had silver tooth fillings. Would
                                          anyone really want to advertise the fact that they can't afford a gold one?

                                          Lindsay




                                          >From: JPKIRCHNER@...
                                          >Reply-To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                                          >To: Czechlist@egroups.com
                                          >Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: quiche, silverware
                                          >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:01:57 EDT
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >In a message dated 10/2/00 11:15:18 AM, lindsaylockyer@... writes:
                                          >
                                          > >I understand silverware to be anything either made of silver, or silver
                                          > >plated.
                                          >
                                          >Even jewelry or a tooth filling?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >

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                                        • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                                          ... Another thing: Silverware will often be used to refer to stainless steel flatware, but the term will never include a steel coffee pot. So once the term
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
                                            In a message dated 10/3/00 5:40:21 AM, lindsaylockyer@... writes:

                                            >Ach! No! You've got me there! No, silverware does not cover silver
                                            >jewellery. And I didn't know anyone had silver tooth fillings. Would
                                            >anyone really want to advertise the fact that they can't afford a gold
                                            >one?

                                            Another thing: Silverware will often be used to refer to stainless steel
                                            flatware, but the term will never include a steel coffee pot. So once the
                                            term is used for items that are not made of silver, it narrows.

                                            As for those fillings, I can't imagine a world where people don't have silver
                                            ones. Here the majority of people have either silver amalgam fillings or
                                            porcelain composite. Of course, people under 24 tend to have no fillings,
                                            because the preventive technology is better now than when I was a weester.

                                            Jamie
                                          • Lindsay Lockyer
                                            ... I haven t heard of flatware. What is it? Something flat? Like a plate? By tableware, I would think you were meaning all knives, forks, spoons and
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
                                              >Jamie wrote:
                                              >
                                              >In normal usage, I always understood cutlery to be cutting utensils and
                                              >when
                                              >combined with forks, spoons and other implements it is usually called
                                              >"tableware". I insist that this is normal US usage. Of course, there is
                                              >also "flatware".
                                              >
                                              >JK





                                              I haven't heard of flatware. What is it? Something flat? Like a plate?
                                              By tableware, I would think you were meaning all knives, forks, spoons and
                                              crockery ... and teapots and coffeepots: in fact anything that goes on a
                                              table. As for cutlery, if we're going to be ever so, *ever so* strict about
                                              it then a cutler deals with blades, not merely knives, so cutlery covers any
                                              blade: knives, swords, daggers, axes, machetes, halberds etc. However, your
                                              average person on the street (here) would understand cutlery to be knives,
                                              forks, spoons and so on. Now I shall bear in mind all you have said so I
                                              don't show myself up if I take a holiday in the US.

                                              : )
                                              Lindsay

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                                            • Jirka Bolech
                                              ... My boring stereotype, a quote from Webster s: flatware, n. 1. utensils, as knives, forks, and spoons, used at the table for serving and eating food. 2.
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
                                                Lindsay Lockyer wrote:

                                                > I haven't heard of flatware. What is it? Something flat? Like a plate?

                                                My boring stereotype, a quote from Webster's:

                                                flatware, n.
                                                1. utensils, as knives, forks, and spoons, used at the table for serving and
                                                eating food.
                                                2. dishes or containers for the table that are more or less flat, as plates
                                                and saucers (distinguished from hollowware).

                                                I'd just add: How straightforward!

                                                Jirka Bolech
                                              • Michael Grant
                                                I just noticed some orange Halloween plasticware labeled cutlery at the grocery store--including knives, spoons, and forks. FWIW. Michael -- BLUE DANUBE
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
                                                  I just noticed some orange Halloween plasticware labeled "cutlery" at
                                                  the grocery store--including knives, spoons, and forks. FWIW.

                                                  Michael

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                                                • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                                                  ... How do the knives cut? :-)
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Oct 3, 2000
                                                    In a message dated 10/3/00 8:05:37 PM, mgrant@... writes:

                                                    >I just noticed some orange Halloween plasticware labeled "cutlery" at
                                                    >the grocery store--including knives, spoons, and forks. FWIW.

                                                    How do the knives cut? :-)
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